about goldfish growth
k luc
goldfish get HUGE! some goldfish are not supposed to be huge. ranchu for
example are not supposed to have huge bodies because then they will not
develop their wen properly. the faster the growth rate of the body
usually means the other parts (fins, wen) grow too fast. they don't
develop right. power feeding them will make em grow faster, but also the
colours will fade faster. that's one reason chinese fish are huge but
the colours are not as brilliant as japanese fish. it's the same thing
with koi. it's more about the body shape and colour than the body size.
although huge goldfish are impressive, they usually have more health
problems than properly grown (this i mean naturally) fish. i've power
fed demekins before for expirimentation...and even at age two the blues
in my calico ones started to go! i had purple and blue dmekin but once i
bred them with imported chinese dragon heads, the aoko were really badly
coloured. so, i bred them back with brilliant coloured japanese fish. i
didn't get huge fish, but the colurs stayed a lot better. this is just
my experience. i don't know about others. comments?
k luc
so...@pitnet.net
same batch of fry, some get huge quickly (called mules and mostly sterile)
while some are dwarf and going to be dwarf forever (dont live long).
People can line breed and in breed fish forever and all they will get is
more consistency and poorer fish due to consolidation of bad mutations.
Take 2 B grade fish with looks appropriate for their "type" that produce
LOTS of eggs and fry and out of 1 million fry, there will be spectacular
fish, big, healthy, great wens or whatever. It is a crap shoot. The real
key to getting those A and AA fish is culling. Not wasting "water" on poor
fish. Great cullers can tell unhealthy fish within a couple months of
hatching. Dont have a clue how, but one parameter is the lateral line..
??? again, dont know any specifics.
Another consideration is that GF have two years to get to "adult" size
before they are sexually mature. After that, growth is going to slow down
as energy is diverted into making germ cells.
The longer the fish is in the pond growing, the more likely they will
see every kind of disease out there.. two outcomes, their immune system is
lousy, they die and that is that, OR their immune system deals with it and
they develop immunity. The bigger the fish, the more likely it has a
"booking" immune system, as long as they havent been grown in sterile
conditions. The Israelis grow koi in sterile conditions.. and they do not
do as well in poind conditions as those raised in ponds and exposed to
disease at younger ages.. which culls out those with poor immune systems.
In fact, for all koi, people do say dont bother with koi smaller than 7
inches.. they just dont survive as well as the bigger ones.
Now big fish need a lot of water. And the more fins its got, the more
water it needs and more water changed more often.
There are lots of reasons for "brilliant color". Colder water keeps
brilliant colors and crisp edges. There is a great site that discusses
color and water quality and effect on koi
http://members.aa.net/~koi/tategoi/index.html especially "the flower that
bloomed twice".
The bigger the fish, the more likely the colors are "fixed". Of course,
what the fish are fed has a great deal to do with keeping the colors it
came with (in addition to water temp and light exposure). There is one
other sinister way to enhance color.. steroids in the food. Makes the fish
grow big, and it makes for brilliant colors. You know you got steroided
fish when the colors fade on color enhancing food and the fish wont grow
even on high quality, high protein foods. The Chinese tend to NOT use
steroid laced foods.
That being said, I can tell you that the Chinese buy Japanese fish for
their shapes and colors and to outbreed their stock, like the ryukins.
There are two foods, one, Biokyowa has been shown by the U of Florida
aquaculture institute to make great big gorgeous fish like those found in
China. But it is not a color enhancing food, so the fish are black and
white, white, or yellow. Ultra Gold Duraflake by Aquadine is a growth food
and color enhancing for reds. Both, but especially the Biokyowa must be
kept frozen to retain high quality.
How well fish "hold up" has a lot to do with both the breeder of the fish
in China, and, with how the fish are handled for shipping and recovery
after shipping. Fish packed like sardines in bags, tranks instead of
cooling them down and shipping over 24 hours is going to result in very
high ammonia and other toxins in the bag. If these fish are imported in
huge quantities then simply redirected to a pet store, their health is
going to be permanently affected. Fish that are cooled, no other stuff
added to the bag, packed light, shipping under 24 hours, and then allowed
to recover (quarantined) for a month before sale are going to be much
healthier fish. It wont guarantee the fish will live to 14, again, it is
the genetics of the fish, and it sure has to do with the quality of water
and care by the owner. American bred pond fish, moors etc. dont have to
got thru that shipping and are healthier in the long run, altho American
fish raised in raceways are not going to do well in ponds unless special
care and handling is done. Solo
k luc <alei...@winternet.com> wrote:
some goldfish are not supposed to be huge. ranchu for
>example are not supposed to have huge bodies because then they will not
>develop their wen properly.
power feeding them will make em grow faster, but also the
>colours will fade faster. that's one reason chinese fish are huge but
>the colours are not as brilliant as japanese fish.
>although huge goldfish are impressive, they usually have more health
>problems than properly grown (this i mean naturally) fish. i've power
>fed demekins before for expirimentation...and even at age two the blues
>in my calico ones started to go! i had purple and blue dmekin but once i
>bred them with imported chinese dragon heads, the aoko were really badly
>coloured. so, i bred them back with brilliant coloured japanese fish. i
>didn't get huge fish, but the colurs stayed a lot better. this is just
>my experience. i don't know about others. comments? k luc
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Solo<remove this>@pitnet.net
microbiology/immunology/virology
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://lists.aquaria.net/fish/goldfish/puregold/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BErney1014
my experience. i don't know about others. comments?....>>
k luc
I agree with your points. The person asking about their fish didn't mention the
type of fish. It could be a dwarf.
I did a small experiment a few years back from one comet spawn. I housed fish
in different size tanks and stocking densities. I fed them the same foods. The
smaller the tank, the smaller the fish. When they were finally put together
about a year later, they very quickly caught up to the largest fish of the
spawn.
One thing I notice about Japanese fish is the stronger color and smaller size.
I was told they are steroided and only the Chinese fish were "right". Turned
out to be pure bunk.