Help! pH too high!

B Callahan

unread,

Oct 17, 2001, 1:06:09 AM10/17/01

to

I tested my pond yesterday: No nitrites, no NH3, pH 8. Today, the fish
are clumped together in the shallowest shelf in the pond, one or two appear
to be diving against the bottom (is this what's referred to as flashing and
scratching?). I tested the water, still no nitrites, still no NH3, pH 9.5!!
Can anyone help explain why this happened?

The pond had a 50% water change a week ago because a large quantity of
small leaves got through the net and the water looked like pea-soup: I got a
finer pond net, did a 50% water change, used a proprietary de-chlorinator to
de-chlorinate two 250gallon tanks several times, adding the water 500gals at
a time, unclogged the pump-filter, and presto, clear as a bell in a couple
of hours. All tests looked fine both then and the next day, right up til
today.

I'm wondering if the only explanation could be deliberate human
interference. I hope someone replies to this post, my wife and I are both
quite new to keeping carp, and they've become our pride and joy. We're
really at a loss. I've used a pH adjuster for alkaline ponds, and I'm hoping
the fish' behaviour is just because of the change in pH/water quality. Even
then, it can't be good for them. Should I treat the pond with an
antibacterial agent to guard them against infection?

Any help appreciated, post here or mailto:secure...@ntlworld.com

Thanks for your time,
Ben Callhan.

William Tang

unread,

Oct 17, 2001, 8:01:36 PM10/17/01

to

"B Callahan" <weir...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<VHhz7.14028$T05.1...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>...

A PH of 8.0 is not too high for goldfish. As long as the PH doesn't
change too much in a short time, it should be fine for Carp (I have
goldfish and koi.). The tap water here in Sunnyvale, CA is around 8.4
and before I added CO2 injection in my tank, the tank is always around
8.2 during the day, 7.8 after sunset (The tank is outside).

I had a simular experience in a pond in Sacramento. In late
summer/early fall when a lot of leaves fall into the pond, decaying
material generates a lot of food for bugs/parasites to grow. Look for
fish lice or anchor worm when fish starts 'flashing'.

Here's the post I put on rec.pond:

jayve...@yahoo.com (Jay Veillard) wrote in message news:<10ab126e.0110...@posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
>
> Just the other day, I noticed this flat, clear, green thingy attached
> to one of my goldfish in my pond. So I got this poor infected chap
> out of the water, and scraped this thing off. As soon as I got it
> off, it started scurrying around the water like a little torpedo. I
> got my poor goldfish back into the pond after a quick dab of "slime
> coat restorer" (novaqua). At any rate, I haven't seen any of the
> other goldfish affected by this nasty little critter (fish
> lice/argulus) but just to make sure I wanted to treat my pond. It's a
> small pond at just under 100 gallons. There is a LOT of plant life
> (water iris, elodea, water hyacinth, canna lilies, water lilies), and
> a handful of fantails (3) and a few japanese trapdoor snails (maybe
> 4).
>
> So, what can I use to treat this pond? I went out and bought some
> Paragon but after doing some research, I found out that this stuff has
> antibiotics that kill off the biofilter (bad). I also don't want to
> use antibiotics if I don't have to. So I went to the LFS again (the
> people there are clueless, sorry no offense to any of you LFS people),
> and this time bought some "Clout." It doesn't have any antibiotics in
> it however, I'm worried about the snails. Will this stuff hurt my
> snails? (or even my plants for that matter?).
>
> Does anyone have any experience with Clout or anything similar that
> treats fish for argulus AND is snail+plant friendly? Am I asking for
> too much here?
>
> Thanks!
I suspect you have done some research since you have identified the
name of the bug. Here's a link incase you have not found it:
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/argulus.htm

We had a case of it just a few weeks ago in my aunt's 1200 gal pond.
The water looked very clear since I build a big bio filter for it this
spring, so she neglected to change water and monitor the fish. In late
summer (in central valley of CA), she noticed bean sized bumps on
large fish tails and all over the 10 inch fantails.

On a Saturday afternoon, we spend hours catching the larger fishes one
by one to pull the adult sized bugs off them with a tweezer.
We found the best way to control the fish is to use a dark color, fine
net to hold the fish in just enough water to cover the body. Have a
helper cover the fish's head & eye with a hand also helps to reduce
fish fighting.

We managed to remove 150+ of these bugs from the larger koi and gold
fish (~7 12-15 in). 1/3 of them were from two slower swimming
fantails. We noticed immediate improvement in fish behavior after the
bugs are gone from their body. They are instantly more playful, swim
and feed more regularly and stoped 'flashing'.

After that, I added a few cups of salt in the water to help skin
recovery and reduce stress. Test in the bowl with the bugs show a high
level of salt is needed to kill them. We didn't have enough salt to
treat the 1,200 gal pond if I wanted to. The concentration of salt
will for sure kill all of the plants she had there too... this from
personal experience treating Ick in a smaller tank :(

I brought the bug in a cup to LFS for help. The inhouse 'expert'
mistakently identified as fluke (Gyrodactylus) but correctly
recommended a bottle of 'anchor-away' (don't remember the exact name)
that treats anchor worm as well as other larger parasites. The cost of
the 4 oz bottle powder was $20... Not enough to treat the pond twice
(recomended to treat 3 times over 3 weeks period with 30% water change
in between each treatment).

The label says it's safe with bio filter. The store expert said salt
have no effect on these bugs, but a minute later, I read from the
label that one of the two main active ingredient is NaCl >8-(, and
it's listed 1st. (I didn't reconize the other ingredient and don't
have the bottle with me.) I hate to think I just paid $20 for a bottle
of salt plus some snke oil :(

To save the other $20, I lowered the water level in the pond by a feet
(~ 2 feet left) and dumped in 1/3 of the bottle :) ... Now 4 weeks
after the treatment, we have not found any more bugs on the fish. The
water change was a pain since the pond does not have a drain.

During the treatment with the drug and salt, I removed the plants and
put them into two large tubs and added some lawn fertilizer and put
them in a bright place. The reasoning behind it is that parasites
don't survive without a host. I think 3 weeks is enought to starve the
newly hatched bugs in the warm CA weather. You can treat the plants
with bleach to be sure left over bugs are killed before you put them
back in the pond. The plants grew better in the tubs with the added
fertilizer than they did in the pond too :)

It should be a lot easier for your 100 gal pond since water change for
you is much easier. You'll have to remove the snails during
treatment... in my experience, most parasite drugs will kill snails.

Good luck!

William

unread,

Oct 18, 2001, 4:26:57 PM10/18/01

to

I don't change water in the pond that often and never had a high PH
like yours. My pond is well planted and have a large bio filter. It's
also lined with a rubber liner with little river rocks in it, so water
chemistry is pretty stable. The only stuff I add into the pond is
fertilizer for the plants.

Without finding the cause, the only solution with your situation is to
change water and add acid buffer to get the PH down.

If you are going to chang a lot of water, make sure your dechlorinator
can handle ammonia if your tap water have chlormine ( ammonia +
chlorine compound which is more stable than chlorine. But regular
dechlorinator, sodium thiosulfate, only work on the chlorine part and
leave ammonia alone for your bio filter to digest). If you don't have
much plant in your pond, changing too much water with declor can bring
a ammonia spike.

Don't use distilled water! Fish and plant need minerals and trace
elements to survive. Distilled water does not have any PH buffering
in it and will bring large PH swing if your KH is low.

You can check on rec.pond newsgroup for pond related info... readers
there have much more experience on pond related stuff. Search for
"pond FAQ" on the net will help too.

In my experience, dying leaves usually drives PH down instead of up
... and flashing usually mean the fish is got some parasite attached
to its skin. Fish lice and anchor worm are large and easy to spot,
but others need a skin scrape and microscope :(

good luck!

William

"B Callahan" <weir...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<XTrz7.19803$T05.2...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>...

N2...@wi.rr.com

unread,

Oct 19, 2001, 9:30:10 AM10/19/01

to

check to see what is on the ingredients list
DIMILIN AKA Diflubenzuron, AI3-29054, Astonex, Benzamide, Difluron
N-(((4-chlorophenyl)amino)carbonyl)-2,6-diflu-oro-benzamide
An insect growth regulator which interferes with the formation of the
insect cuticle. It is effective in
the control of mosquitoes and flies.

willi...@angelfire.com (William Tang) wrote:

List manager- Puregold