Favorites and Fibs from a Poker Game
James Dow Allen
I like it because some of the "fibs" seem humorous.
As such puzzles go, this one is fairly ordinary,
with no "tricks." It was *not* rated Difficult,
but I think it is near the upper limit beyond which
solving becomes almost more masochism than challenge.
(Hint: Many solvers start solution by drawing a 21x21
triangular grid but this is a waste of time on most
such puzzles including, I think, this one.)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
POKER FAVORITES AND FIBS
One Friday evening, seven men met for poker in the
back room of the Emerald City Bar and Grill. They
broke up about midnight, and (because they left any odd
change for the busboys) each went home with a whole
number of dollars. Though they played for small stakes,
they did take the game seriously and each went home
happy to remember one special hand he had held.
Two of the men were bachelors. The others had wives who
didn't approve of gambling, and each had to invent a
fib to tell his wife. (Two fibbed a mutual alibi -- they
said they'd been cavorting together at a honkytonk.)
From the clues determine each man's name, how much money
he went home with, his favorite hand, and, for each married
man, what fib he told his wife.
Clue 1: The five married men included two who each went
home with exactly four times as much money as one of his
six fellow players. The other three married men were Alan,
the one whose favorite hand was a Full House, and the one
whose favorite hand was his Bluff on a busted four-flush.
Clue 2: There were two men who each left with exactly three
times as much money as some fellow player. One of these
was the one (just mentioned in clue 1) who Bluffed on a
busted four-flush. The other was the one who told his wife
that his watch had stopped.
Clue 3: One man (not Fred) finished with exactly as much
money as the other six put together. The second-place
man had less than $12. The seven players all had different
amounts, and each had at least $2.
Clue 4: One man's favorite hand was a Pair of Jacks, with
which he called successfully against a bluffer. Another man
told his wife ``I was tied-up at work.'' That ``tied-up'' man
left with more money than Greg, and four times as much money
as one player.
Clue 5: Greg finished with more money than the man whose
favorite hand was Triplet Treys, who finished with more money
than the one who told his wife he'd been abducted by a UFO.
Clue 6: Carl went home with less money than Dave.
At least one of these two left with exactly one-quarter
as much money as one of his six fellow players.
Clue 7: The man who bragged about his Royal Flush ended up
among the lowest three for money.
Clue 8: Ezra finished with $1 more than the man (not Alan)
whose big hand was when he drew to an Inside Straight.
Clue 9: The man (not Dave) whose favorite hand was
Aces Over Eights, finished with more money than Bill
(who isn't a bachelor).
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
This puzzle was published in a magazine several years
ago, but completely transformed to avoid giving offense
to anyone: I think the husbands' fibs became wallpaper
colors.
(I wanted to use Sleepy, Bashful, Grumpy, etc. for my
seven-person puzzles but was told that Disney Corp's
lawyers wouldn't approve. I suggested a change to
Waldo Ditzy and his Seven Lawyers (Nasty, Sleazy,
Stingy, Crabby, Surly, Grouchy and Snide); the magazine
never got back to me on that.)
James Dow Allen
joe d
Seems impossible to me, because there are only 6 names of players
explicitly given.
We are told that someone was "not Dave", but nowhere were we told that
there was
a player named Dave. There are 6 other names explicitly given as the
names of
players, so I suspect that, under the circumstances, the answer is
uncertain.
James Dow Allen
> On Oct 30, 10:54 am, James Dow Allen <jdallen2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Here's a Logic Puzzle that some rec.puzzler's may enjoy.
> > I like it because some of the "fibs" seem humorous.
> > It was *not* rated Difficult,
> > but I think it is near the upper limit beyond which
> > solving becomes almost more masochism than challenge.
> > POKER FAVORITES AND FIBS
> > ... [snip]
> > Clue 9: The man (not Dave) whose favorite hand was
> > Aces Over Eights, finished with more money than Bill
> > (who isn't a bachelor).
>
> explicitly given.
> We are told that someone was "not Dave", but nowhere were we told that
> there was
> a player named Dave.
In the conversation:
"Who picked up the check?"
"Not Dave!"
I think most native speakers would agree there is an
inference (albeit not a necessity) that the named
tightwad attended the lunch.
Anyway, I feel guilty if this is all the progress
you made in 19 days. :-( :-(
The magazine ranked this puzzle as of only 3-star
difficulty (or 2-star?), which led me to conclude that their
ranks were based mainly on the number of words in the
problem and its detailed solution! (Since I spent
considerable effort minimizing clues and solutions,
my puzzles were thus consistently under-rated. I
switched to a different magazine which often assigned
a 5-star rating to a puzzle similar to what the other
mag gave 3-star to!)
James
Richard Heathfield
<36dd4529-ce69-4fcb...@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
James Dow Allen wrote:
<snip>
> Anyway, I feel guilty if this is all the progress
> you made in 19 days. :-( :-(
Oh dear. I didn't even look at it! Sorry.
It's now disappeared off my feed. If you post it again over the
weekend (or email it to me), I'll take a look at it early next week,
which looks like it might be slightly less manic than this week.
--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within
James Dow Allen
> Oh dear. I didn't even look at it! Sorry.
> .
> It's now disappeared off my feed. If you post it again over the
> weekend (or email it to me), I'll take a look at it early next week,
> which looks like it might be slightly less manic than this week.
I have just e-mailed a copy of "Favorites and Fibs"
to you personally, Mr. Heathfield.
Although I once might have qualified as a "tech geek"
I am very ignorant about Websites and Webbing techniques.
(Just today I first learned of speedtest.net.)
Therefore it is a rare pleasure that I can provide a
fellow newbie with a useful URL.
Go to
http://groups.google.com
and enter something like
"Favorites and Fibs"
as a Search term. After clicking you should get the URL
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=%22Favorites+and+Fibs%22&qt_s=Search+Groups
along with a list of clickable links.
Doing this just now, I get a list of two links
either of which takes me directly to the message
you couldn't find!
* * * * * * * * *
I don't approve of Microsoft business practices
but I use Windows to retrieve photos from my
camera because wasting my time looking for a Linux
driver will not affect Microsoft.
I don't fully approve of all U.S. Government policies,
but I've not renounced my passport, which could
lead to my arrest where I live.
We all have objections to Google Groups, but
what's the point of masochism?
Hope this helps.
James Dow Allen
Richard Heathfield
James Dow Allen wrote:
> On Nov 19, 6:43 am, Richard Heathfield <r...@see.sig.invalid> wrote:
>> Oh dear. I didn't even look at it! Sorry.
>> .
>> It's now disappeared off my feed. If you post it again over the
>> weekend (or email it to me), I'll take a look at it early next
>> week, which looks like it might be slightly less manic than this
>> week.
>
> I have just e-mailed a copy of "Favorites and Fibs"
> to you personally, Mr. Heathfield.
>
> Although I once might have qualified as a "tech geek"
> I am very ignorant about Websites and Webbing techniques.
> (Just today I first learned of speedtest.net.)
> Therefore it is a rare pleasure that I can provide a
> fellow newbie with a useful URL.
>
> Go to
> http://groups.google.com
STOP RIGHT THERE! I gotta know right now! Before we go any further, do
you realise where you're trying to take me?
<snip>
> Doing this just now, I get a list of two links
> either of which takes me directly to the message
> you couldn't find!
I didn't look. I merely said it had disappeared off my feed. Given the
choice between asking you to re-post (the "fire and forget" option)
and fighting Google's useless useless useless archive (the "blood
pressure" option), I knew what I had to do.
>
> * * * * * * * * *
>
> I don't approve of Microsoft business practices
> but I use Windows to retrieve photos from my
> camera because wasting my time looking for a Linux
> driver will not affect Microsoft.
>
> I don't fully approve of all U.S. Government policies,
> but I've not renounced my passport, which could
> lead to my arrest where I live.
>
> We all have objections to Google Groups, but
> what's the point of masochism?
When I have to use it, I use it. But when I don't... what's the point
of masochism?
--
Mark Tilford
*** Spoiler ***
From clue 1, there are at least two players who finished with four times
as much as another player.
From clue 2, there are at least two players who finished with three
times as much as another player.
From clue 3, everyone ended with at least $2, and at most one ended with
at least $12; that person had as much as everyone else put together;
everyone ended with a different amount.
Putting it together:
In order to end with four times the amount of another, the players
could have:
$2, $8
$x, $(4*x) [ >= $12 ], $x >= 3 [ At most one person ]
There are only two ways to do this, so both occurred.
In order to have 3 times the amount of another, the players could have
$2, $6
$3, $9
$y, $(3*y) [ >= 12 ], $y >= 4 [ at most one person ]
Possibilities:
a) Some player had $(3*y), with 3y >= 12
In this case, that person must be the same player who had 4*x.
Since all amounts are integers, x == 3*z, y == 4*z, and some players
had 3*z, 4*z, 12*z.
z >= 1, and z <= 2 ( if z >= 3, then the players with 4z and 12z both
had at least $12 )
aa: z == 1.
Then some players had $2, $8, $3, $4, $12.
The player with $12 had the sum of all other players, but
even the players already known have at least $17 to his $12.
Impossible.
ab: z == 2.
Then some players had $2, $8, $6, $24.
The other three players had at least $(3+4+5) between them,
which puts the sum to at least $28 > $24.
impossible.
Therefore
b) No player had 3 times the amount of another player and
4 times the amount of another player.
There are only two remaining ways for a player to have 3 times the
amount of another, so both pairs (2,6) and (3,9) must be used.
The players had 2,3,6,8,9,p,q, with q > p.
q is the sum of all other players == 28+p, and is also four
times one of the other numbers. It can't be four times 2, 3, or 6,
as this would be less than 28+p.
a) q == 4*8 == 32; p == 4
b) q == 4*9 == 36; p == 8 (impossible, two eights)
c) q == 4*p; 4*p == 28+p --> 3*p == 28 (p not integer, impossible)
Therefore the amounts are 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 32.
The big winner was not Alan (clue 1), Bill (clue 9), Carl (clue 6),
Ezra (clue 8), Fred (clue 3), or Greg (clue 4); he is Dave.
Dave did not have Triplet Treys (clue 5), Aces over Eights (clue 9),
an inside straight (clue 8), a four-flush (clue 1), a full house
(clue 1), or a royal flush (clue 7); he had a pair of jacks.
Dave is not single (clue 1); his excuse wasn't that his watch
stopped (clue 3), that he was abducted by a UFO (clue 5), or
that he was tied-up at work (clue 4); he is one of the ones
who claimed to be at a honky tonk.
The person who claimed to be tied-up at work left with 4 times the
amount of another, but didn't have the pair; he had $8.
Adding these facts to what is given in clue 1:
Dave $32 Pair/Jacks Honky Tonk
---- $ 8 ---------- Tied-up at work
Alan ---- ---------- -------
---- ---- Full House -------
---- $6/9 Four Flush -------
---- ---- ---------- (single)
---- ---- ---------- (single)
Both men who ended with 3 times the amount of another are married
(clues 1 and 2).
From clues 4 and 5, Greg had $4/$6; Treys had $3/$4; UFO had $2/$3.
The man with the four flush did not use the watch stopped excuse or
the UFO excuse; he's the other one to be in the Honky Tonk.
In clue 6, Dave didn't end up with 1/4 the amount of anyone else,
so Carl did. Carl ended with $2 or $8.
Triplet Treys has $3/$4. He doesn't have 3 times the amount of
another, 4 times the amount of another, and he didn't use the
UFO excuse (clue 5). By elimination, he is single.
Alan used the UFO excuse or the watch stopped excuse.
a) Alan used Abducted by UFO.
Dave $32 Pair/Jacks Honky Tonk
---- $ 8 ---------- Tied-up at work
Alan $2/3 ---------- Abducted by UFO
---- $6/9 Full House Watch stopped
---- $6/9 Four Flush Honky Tonk
---- $3/4 Triplet 3s (single)
---- $2/3/4 ---------- (single)
Bill is married (clue 9), so he had at least $6. Aces & Eights had more
than that (clue 9), so he had $8 and was tied-up at work. Alan didn't
have the inside straight (clue 8), so he had the royal flush.
Ezra had $1 more than the man with the inside straight (clue 8), so Ezra
had Triplet Treys with $4 and Inside Straight had $3.
Greg had more than Triplet Treys (clue 5) and less than tied-up (clue 4)
so he had $6. But now there's no way for Bill to have less than
Aces & Eights while being married.
(contradiction)
Therefore;
b) Alan used Watch stopped.
Dave $32 Pair/Jacks Honky Tonk
---- $ 8 ---------- Tied-up at work
Alan $6/9 ---------- Watch stopped
---- $2/3 Full House Abducted by UFO
---- $6/9 Four Flush Honky Tonk
---- $3/4 Triplet 3s (single)
---- $2/3/4 ---------- (single)
Alan did not have the Inside Straight (clue 8) or the Royal Flush
(clue 7); he had Aces Over Eights. The man with $8 didn't have
the royal flush (clue 7); he had the inside straight.
Ezra had $1 more than inside straight (clue 8); he had $9 and Alan
had $6.
Aces over Eights had more money than the married Bill (clue 9); Bill
must have the full house.
Tied-up with $8 had more money than Greg, who had more money than Treys,
who had more money than UFO. (clues 4 and 5). This forces Greg to
have $4, Treys to have $3, and UFO to have $2.
Carl had 1/4 of the amount somebody else had, so he didn't have $3. He
had $8 and Fred had $3.
Dave $32 Pair/Jacks Honky Tonk
Carl $ 8 Inside Str Tied-up at work
Alan $ 6 AcesEights Watch stopped
Bill $ 2 Full House Abducted by UFO
Ezra $ 9 Four Flush Honky Tonk
Fred $ 3 Triplet 3s (single)
Greg $ 4 RoyalFlush (single)
James Dow Allen
> On 2009-10-30, James Dow Allen wrote:
> > POKER FAVORITES AND FIBS
Mark solved it!! Thank you, Mark.
If you (or anyone) found this puzzle too easy,
I'll send you a harder one by e-mail!
(Gmail: jamesdowallen)
Spoiler warning: I've left in part of Mark's
solution below.
> [snip]
> Dave $32 Pair/Jacks Honky Tonk
> ---- $ 8 ---------- Tied-up at work
> Alan ---- ---------- -------
> ---- ---- Full House -------
> ---- $6/9 Four Flush -------
> ---- ---- ---------- (single)
> ---- ---- ---------- (single)
This is the kind of chart I use to solve such
puzzles. On a hard one there may be several
such tables, each from different clue(s),
gradually merged together during solution.
But these tables are no panacaea, and sometimes
the "standard" cross grid works better.
> [snip ... then make assumption for trial-error]
> a) Alan used Abducted by UFO.
Like Mark, I needed a single trial-error diversion
for solution. But another assumption may lead
to a contradiction (followed by final solution)
more quickly: assume Ezra < $9.
> Dave $32 Pair/Jacks Honky Tonk
> [snip]
The two big winners were the Honky Tonker's!
Maybe they really *did* go cavorting to celebrate
their win!
James
Richard Heathfield
James Dow Allen wrote:
> On Nov 23, 6:23 pm, Mark Tilford wrote:
>> On 2009-10-30, James Dow Allen wrote:
>> > POKER FAVORITES AND FIBS
>
> Mark solved it!! Thank you, Mark.
I got as far as working out all the information (marital status,
excuse, cash, favourite hand) about Dave before my motivation
received a nasty dent in the form of Mark's solution.