OT- water damage to black lacquer finish
Andy Dingley
wrote:
>Any advice on restoring the finish on a black lacquer Chinese screen? It got
> wet in my van somehow and now the finish is splotched with a grayish haze.
What's "lacquer" ? Is this modern, or traditional urushiol lacquer ?
<assuming traditional lacquer>
Water damage is a real problem on old lacquer, particularly screens
and especially tables. Lacquer itself is originally water resistant,
hence its use for bowls etc. When it's previously damaged by light
exposure, then it becomes susceptible to water damage. Lacquer
objects should be stored out of the light, and only displayed at a max
of 50 lux (ideally). Items like tables and screens though are usually
exposed to considerable light levels and should always be considered
as susceptible.
You can test for water susceptibility with a cotton stick and some
water. Wipe an inconspicuous area (although one that has also been
exposed to light) with a damp cotton bud. Grey residues are good,
brown residues are the sign of a light-degraded finish. If the finish
is still stable, then water can actually be a good cleaning agent, but
I don't recommend this if you're inexperienced with lacquer.
As to fixing it, then I think you're out of luck. Sorry.
AFAIK, there is no technique that will restore water damaged lacquer.
Certainly polishing won't. The commonest approach is to relacquer,
which is a skilled task (certainly beyond me) . This has its own
problems, in that lacquer of diferent ages will tend to age
differently and become even more visible over time.
Marianne Webb's "Technology and Conservation of Lacquer" is an
excellent (although expensive) book on lacquer.
Alan McClure
> On 28 Sep 2002 04:38:50 GMT, egst...@aol.comnojunk (Egstutz12)
> wrote:
>
> >Any advice on restoring the finish on a black lacquer Chinese screen? It got
> > wet in my van somehow and now the finish is splotched with a grayish haze.
>
> What's "lacquer" ? Is this modern, or traditional urushiol lacquer ?
>
?????? I thought urushiol was the poison in poison ivy, poison oak,
mango, cashews, etc.
ARM
Dr. Rev Chuck, MD., PA
It is. Japanese lacquer is made from a sumac which contains the toxin,
obviously should be handled appropriately.
Mike Wilcox
It's also found in the type of sumac whose sap is the basis for
the lacquer, when dried over time in a moist atmosphere it forms
a tough finish.
Mike Wilcox
Kris Baker
Ronnie McKinley wrote in message ...
>In rec.antiques Andy Dingley <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote:
>
>>On 28 Sep 2002 04:38:50 GMT, egst...@aol.comnojunk (Egstutz12)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Any advice on restoring the finish on a black lacquer Chinese screen?
It got
>>> wet in my van somehow and now the finish is splotched with a grayish
haze.
>>
>>
>>What's "lacquer" ? Is this modern, or traditional urushiol lacquer ?
>
>
>appeared ONLY in other ng to rec.antiques?????
(snip)
>Ronnie
>======
I see no mention, by the OP, that this is an antique screen anyway.
If it's not antique and merely one of those Pier 1 things, I recommend a
can of black glossy spray paint ;)
Kris
Kris Baker
Ronnie McKinley wrote in message ...
>>
>>I see no mention, by the OP, that this is an antique screen anyway.
>
>century European imitation lacquerwork commonly known as "japanning," or
>"japan work?"
>
>Ronnie
>======
I mean none of those, because I don't know a thing about the screen.
What's up to the OP to define, isn't it? All he said was "black lacquer",
no mention of age, type of finish, or anything else. Apparently it was
left in a leaky van where it became water-damaged -- that's not the
treatment one would give to *any* valuable item.
If I had to guess, I'd say modern "japanned" and be wondering why no
other part of the screen was water-damaged.
Kris
Andy Dingley
<ali...@glenbourne-antiques.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Why do you **Mr.Dingley** insist on crossposting messages which have
>appeared ONLY in other ng to rec.antiques?????
Because I like to.
Apart from that, go screw yourself. 8-)
I don't know if this is an old or modern screen (although a haze after
water damage could well be old). If it is though, lacquer is certainly
on-topic for rec.antiques. Now if another reader of rec.antiques has
any idea on how to fix it, then I for one would love to hear it.
Why not go for a nice march around outside or something. Put your
bowler and sash on and make the best of the end of Summer.
Kris Baker
>
>You all recall a number of years ago one of the most prominent and
>frequently asked questions to rec.antiques was "what is an antiques."
Yes - and that was quite heated, especially when discussing
"worthy design" versus "schlocky and old".
>Well, I've often wondered when folk use the term "modern" (ie: not as in
>modernism) what actually (exactly) they mean by a "modern <whatever>."
>
>Does the term "modern" when used in rec.antiques (and mostly by
>Americans) mean anything which ISN'T 50 years old, or is it a little
>more complex than that?
>
>Ronnie
>======
Good question - and I'd like to see other opinions, too.
I used "modern" to describe something newer than the dreaded
"vintage". Recently purchased (within the last twenty years).
The terms I see most often, regarding "modern" as a style rather
than a dating system, seem to be:
1950s Modern
Modernism
Moderne
(Name of designer) Modern
Art Moderne
The word "modern" is frequently used by writers in sentences
such as "Modern women seem to be less interested in the
feminist movement of the 1970s".
I don't seen "modern" applied (without a modifier) to anything
but new items.
Kris
Mike Hide
under water ,vis a vis pieces have been retrieved from sunken Spanish
gallions off the Florida coast for centuries...mjh
--
mike hide
http://members.tripod.com/mikehide2
"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:ls7bpuk7i1nou1rnv...@4ax.com...
Marshall Schuon
<ali...@glenbourne-antiques.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>In rec.antiques "Kris Baker" <kris....@prodigyy.net> wrote:
>
>> I'd say modern "japanned"
>
>You all recall a number of years ago one of the most prominent and
>frequently asked questions to rec.antiques was "what is an antiques."
>
>Well, I've often wondered when folk use the term "modern" (ie: not as in
>modernism) what actually (exactly) they mean by a "modern <whatever>."
>
>Does the term "modern" when used in rec.antiques (and mostly by
>Americans) mean anything which ISN'T 50 years old, or is it a little
>more complex than that?
>
>Ronnie
>======
>
I believe it means a computer that is less than three weeks old.
Marshall
Maryann
>then it's equally appropriate for anyone else to dredge the Ngs, whatever ng,
>and that includes the eBay NGs and crosspost all in sunder to rec.antiques
>and then use the feeble excuse "well IMO it was appropriate." It is NOT
>appropriate .... and gas feckin' welding wasn't appropriate either.
I fear that I will get my head handed to me for this question BUT
please explaon to me what is so awful about cross posting? This may
have been expalined before but, if so, I missed it.
Maryann
"Anything can be anywhere!"
Charleen Bunjiovianna
<aol>Yeah, me too.</aol>
I was rather enjoying the bits on lacquering, but that might be because
I have a maybe/maybe-not lacquer screen which maybe/maybe-not also is
ornamented with gold leaf. The gold leaf (if that's what it is) is getting
speckled and streaked as time goes on. On close inspection it looks like it was
applied in 4 inch square sheets.
The borders are maybe black lacquer and don't respond well to water applied
accidentally.
This could be a tourist shop item for all of me; I got it at an estate sale.
The deceased had removed the hinges and wired each panel so it could be hung.
Charleen
Realpch
>I was rather enjoying the bits on lacquering, but that might be because
>I have a maybe/maybe-not lacquer screen which maybe/maybe-not also is
>ornamented with gold leaf. The gold leaf (if that's what it is) is getting
>speckled and streaked as time goes on. On close inspection it looks like
>it was
>applied in 4 inch square sheets.
>
>The borders are maybe black lacquer and don't respond well to water applied
>accidentally.
>
>This could be a tourist shop item for all of me; I got it at an estate sale.
>The deceased had removed the hinges and wired each panel so it could be
>hung.
>
>Charleen
>
My mom collects lacquer, and it's a favorite Christmas, birthday, Mother's Day
present for her, because the odds are good of finding a little bit of it
somewhere at a reasonable price. The reasonable price usually includes a thick
layer of dirt and other minor damage. My mom says that she was advised to clean
lacquer with a tiny bit of Murphy's Oil Soap. I think I've tried rubbing them
with a bit of mineral oil. None of my results have been very satisfactory.
As for your gold leaf, why not just decide to enjoy the patina? That's often
easiest.
: )
Peach
Kris Baker
Realpch wrote in message <20021001115603...@mb-fx.aol.com>...
The OP was advised, in the woodworking group he originally posted to,
to try some of the buffing compound you use on auto finishes. ????
Kris
Realpch
>The OP was advised, in the woodworking group he originally posted to,
>to try some of the buffing compound you use on auto finishes. ????
>
>Kris
Huh, that's interesting Kris. I've been reading doll boards, and I believe the
repairers there have suggested same for composition dollies that are crazing. I
might try it on an inferior bit of lacquer and see if it works.
Peach
Mike Wilcox
Polishing compounds will work on nitro-cellulose lacquers,
enamels and shellac as the white haze is actually just water
vapour trapped in top layer of the finish, but I've found it does
not work on the real thing. The Oriental lacquers are extremely
resistant to water and generally any stains you find go well
beyond the surface layer of the finish. Using polishing or
rubbing compounds on crazed finishes will leave a white residue
in any cracks that's difficult to remove, for it to be really
effective you have to polish all the crazing out to a level
finish.
Mike Wilcox
proudmari
>din...@codesmiths.com
> (Andy Dingley)
>On Sun, 29 Sep 2002 16:24:38 +0100,
>wrote:
<snip>
>Why not go for a nice march around
> outside or something. Put your bowler
> and sash on and make the best of the
> end of Summer.
Bollocks Ronnie. This may well be understood by you (an Irishman) as a
direct insult to all Irishman. I doubt there is ONE member of this group
who knows EXACTLY just how _outrageous_ and inflammatory this original
comment might actually be,
Your (oh pulease!) "satirical black humor" regarding the "kicking of
Asians by the English" IS bigoted, clearly stated, self explanatory,
totally unveiled AND all inclusive.
Every bit as bigoted and insulting as your uncontested statements
'grouping' all Americans as self-centered, War mongering, blithering
Idiots who know nothing about ANYTHING beyond our own shores and _prior_
to WW2.
I must admit, watching you back peddle is rather sad. Just because a
stand-up comedian in Belfast can insult an Englishman without fear of
offending someone, that certainly has no baring on a USENET group that
goes FAR beyond those boundaries, you know the boudaries I mean Ronnie.
The ones you claim we 'merkins have no idea exist.
Maybe if you explained the DEPTH of MEANING in Mr. Dingley's post that
you claim provoked your ensuing statements and insults to the
inhabitants of England, we _too_ might be inclined to jump to the
defense of Ireland. BTW, My Uncles name was Hanrahan, and his (my) blood
relations live in Sligo. If they've been rudely insulted, I too might be
driven to insult an entire Country, race or sexually 'different' group
people if such is the case!
Truth is Ronnie, I've read enough of your posts to believe you might
actually regret what you did write, but you're too stuborn to admit it.
You've never invested that much verbiage in justifying _anything_ you've
ever written here.
I believe you
hate war Ronnie, and the stupidity (and bigotry) that leads to it. You
_know_ what I mean, making statements that broaden the rifts created by
hatred and bigotry that we had _no_ part of, but suffer the results of
none-the-less, is tantamount to "dooming ourselves to repeat it."
So. Bollocks Ronnie...
plonk me again. just don't say ya did when ya didn't.
proudmari
Realpch
>Polishing compounds will work on nitro-cellulose lacquers,
>enamels and shellac as the white haze is actually just water
>vapour trapped in top layer of the finish, but I've found it does
>not work on the real thing. The Oriental lacquers are extremely
>resistant to water and generally any stains you find go well
>beyond the surface layer of the finish. Using polishing or
>rubbing compounds on crazed finishes will leave a white residue
>in any cracks that's difficult to remove, for it to be really
>effective you have to polish all the crazing out to a level
>finish.
>
>Mike Wilcox
Alright Mike. Aside from a little dusting, I'll leave the doggone things alone.
Peach
Jon Dennington
Englishmen do best, pick on some poor innocent Asians and give 'em a
good kicking......."
then later said: "My statement to Mr. Dingley regarding "Asians" was
hyperbole"
...........now he tells me!!!
Seriously, the way some of you folks misread and misinterpret items
here is frightening. It is quite obvious from this, or any other
postings, that Ronnie is neither a racist or xenophobe.....
Jon
Anyway, we all know that EnglishMEN from the South of the Country are
the superior master beings and all the rest of you are just second
class 'furriners'.......ouch.....oooh........no.......stop!!!!!
Mike Wilcox
> In rec.antiques jon...@ukonline.co.uk (Jon Dennington) wrote:
>
> >Ronnie first said: "Now why don't you go out and do the thing which
> >Englishmen do best, pick on some poor innocent Asians and give 'em a
> >good kicking......."
> >
> >then later said: "My statement to Mr. Dingley regarding "Asians" was
> >hyperbole"
> >
> >
> >...........now he tells me!!!
> >
> >Seriously, the way some of you folks misread and misinterpret items
> >here is frightening. It is quite obvious from this, or any other
> >postings, that Ronnie is neither a racist or xenophobe.....
> >
> >Jon
>
> Yes Jon. I was suggesting to Mr. Dingley in a sarcastic manner he do the
> same thing as the rank and file of the O.O. Except the O.O don't have
> any Asians to pick on.
>
> For Mr. Dingley to attempt to associate me or any other decent peace
> loving folk in NI with the O.O is disgraceful. A truly sectarian and
> discriminatory remark by him. Association with the O.O is much like
> being a member of the BNP.
>
> Thanks for you for the input, Jon .... even although you're a bloody
> Englishman, but thankfully one with a working brain. :)
>
> Ronnie
> ======
You will have to translate for "some" of the international audience that
have no idea who the O.O or BNP are or even know where NI is ;~))
MW