Zenith console identification and parts source
James Sweet
in the software industry and live near Seattle, WA. I've had a
lifelong interest in electricity and electronics and followed the
Antique Radio column in Radio Electronics for years until the magazine
went out of publication. I've wanted to restore an old radio for quite
some time but haven't had one.
On the way home yesterday I happened to stop at a garage sale and
imagine my surprise when I found a number of old radios. One was a large
Zenith console, the price said $100 but he offered it for $75 when he
saw me looking at it. All I had on me though was $52 so he took that and
I loaded the radio in the car and drove home happily with my new treasure.
So first of all I'm looking to get some more information on what it is
and approximately when it was made. A picture of it is here
http://sparcbox.hopto.org/pics/radio.jpg
I'm also a little curious approximately how much this sort of thing is
worth, though I don't intend to sell it.
Next, there's a few parts I'm obviously going to need, namely the three
knobs surrounding the dial and the dial glass which is also missing.
Internally things look relatively intact, all the tubes are there and
aside from the line cord having been replaced it doesn't look like
anything has been mucked with. Obviously it will need all new
electrolytics and wax capacitors, I intend to carefully gut those and
put modern ones inside them. In a bit here I'll check the tubes since I
happened to have borrowed a tube tester for something else recently
which I'll need to give back soon. A few of the tubes have metal
bottles, I'm assuming those are not the original style? Some of them are
still the old bulged tubular things though which are my favorite style.
I've purchased odds & ends from Antique Electronic Supply in the past,
are there any other good places to find things aside from Ebay? Once I
get the electrical side of things in tiptop condition I'll get started
on the relatively straightforward cosmetic restoration.
Thanks in advance for any information you guys can provide.
Eddie Brimer
welcome. you did quite well for 52.00. it's a 1938 shutterdial. (the
proper zenith name is "robot dial) appears to be a 7 tuber. not sure
of the model #. a quick internet search should give you the #, or i am
sure someone here has seen the cabinet, or has one. the knobs will cost
you more than you paid for the radio. although this is not one of the
high end shutterdials, all of them are desireable sets. i would say
2-300.00 would be a good guess on the value. little less with the
missing knobs. this will be a good set for your first resto. lots of
room uner the chassis and easy to work on. should be a nice set
restored.
RadioGary
Welcome to the world of Antique Radio Restoration. There are many
people on here who can give you good advice for restoring old sets like
the one you have. I've relied several times on the group and it it
wasn't for them, the sets wouldn't be working as well as they are.
You did excellent on the set. This is a Zenith Shutter Dial set from
the previous mentioned year. Whether or not it's working, or what sort
of condition it's in you did not mention. Most all will need their
paper capacitors replaced as they're prone to failure first. Tubes are
not very critical and are over rated for going bad. To me the obvious
thing that's WRONG with this set is the grill cloth. If you're doing
your own cabinet restoration you can get a reproduction and easily
replace what's on there now.
I own a simular set I've restored, a 9S262. Feel free to EMAIL me
anytime at
n9vu at yahoo dot com
I may be able to give you some advice on what to look for, or where to
start.
Take care,
Gary
RadioGary
potential. The only time these sets propose a "challenge" is when the
previous owner modified the crap out of it to the point where you have
to really dig into a schematic, go around they're mods, and bring it
back to normal. It doesn't sound that way according to your
description.
Repro stuff is available for these sets from Alan Jesperson of Minn
including all knobs you will need. I'm not certain about the dial
glass, but I know repros may be available for these as well.
Take care,
GB
Dave
console I restored from a local clock restoration parts dealer. It was
very inexpesive - under $10 about 2 years ago. This was the place if you
can not find the glass locally.
Have fun!
Dave N7RK
James Sweet
Wow, just hopped on here to see if a friend had emailed me and there's a
bunch of replies on this thing already. I wasn't aware that the grill
cloth was not original, the internet has made this sort of thing so much
easier.
I checked all the tubes today, several of them are bad, some have weak
emission and another has shorts. It appears those all are fairly readily
available though as there's a bunch of each on ebay. I looked around
carefully and found no sign of any sort of modification or botched
repairs, aside from the tubes being all different brands everything
looks pretty well untouched since it rolled off the assembly line.
One thing which became readily apparent once I started poking around is
that I'm missing the large pointer that moves slowly, I only have the
small brass looking one. There's a stub of the larger one but I can't
tell if it's been broken off or if the stub is simply where it attaches.
I haven't applied power to the set yet but I figured I'd thoroughly go
through the electronics before I do that. No sense in risking burning up
some irriplaceable part.
Now I Just hope I don't get addicted and fill my whole house with these
things. As with another hobby of restoring classic 80's video arcade
games, this combines electronics, woodworking, and the general process
of fixing up something old into a nice functioning unit, all things I
really enjoy.
I'd appreciate any photos anyone can come up with of this particular set
or of parts I need. I'm curious what the dial glass looked like, was it
domed? Someone else suggested a clock shop which I think is a good bet.
Unfortunately the small pointer has rubbed on the black dial and
scratched it. Hopefully I'll be able to touch it up somehow to make it
presentable, I think in a pinch a black Sharpie marker would make it
look pretty good though.
Gary Tayman
Allow me to jump in and say, welcome to the fraternity of vintage radio
hobbyists! There are several wonderful people who frequent this list, many
of which I have met personally. There are also radio clubs and events which
I highly recommend, although admittedly they are spread all over the
country, and they might not exactly be within driving distance. However in
lieu of a local group, there are plenty of us here -- spread all over the
world, as you will soon find out.
I might also add that, along with the great cameraderie and worthwhile
advice, this is an unmoderated newsgroup, and there are indeed some threads
which will make you wonder what's going on. Some people just like to tear
each other apart I guess. The rest of us try to ignore them, or just sit
back and laugh at their antics. Because of the openness of information
here, and because there are always new people signing on such as yourself,
I'll accept the trolls -- the good far outweighs the bad.
Regarding resources -- there are PLENTY! Many of them are on this list;
many others are well-known by folks on this list, so if you ever wish to
know where you can find that obscure part, or how to rebuild an assembly,
just ask. There is also a wide variety of interest here; for example I
personally work with vintage car radios.
There's one thing that's mandatory -- once you finish your project, and have
the cabinet looking like new, we want to see another photo!
--
Gary E. Tayman/Tayman Electrical
Sound Solutions For Classic Cars
http://www.taymanelectrical.com
"James Sweet" <james...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:i1dsg.2534$Th7.1850@trnddc05...
Eddie Brimer
tubesandmore.com has the glass. i wouldn't jump in and swap out all the
caps and out of spec resistors etc. at one time. has nothing to do
with it being your first radio resto....it can make things really
complicated. i would swap the filters and get it to play before i
started snatching all the caps out. i speak from experience. i get it
playing, swap a couple out, check it out, then do a couple more.
Jim Berg
light in a rectangle area below the dial? Is the inside o the cabinet
dark blue? Don't worry, the chassis and speaker are worth more than you
paid. The brass pointer has been cut off. The other pointer is painted
black with the tip white. Don't use the shorted tube, but weak ones
usually will work. The set should have a recap before plugging it in.
RadioGary
son of frankenradio I would imagine. Well, big challenged looks like.
Gary Tayman
"Eddie Brimer" <eb06...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1152494831.7...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
> tubesandmore.com has the glass. i wouldn't jump in and swap out all the
> caps and out of spec resistors etc. at one time. has nothing to do
> with it being your first radio resto....it can make things really
> complicated. i would swap the filters and get it to play before i
> started snatching all the caps out. i speak from experience. i get it
> playing, swap a couple out, check it out, then do a couple more.
>
Eddie is exactly right. Paper caps, though they test bad around 80% of the
time (my experience), usually don't prevent the radio from playing. If you
have the ability, it's better to troubleshoot, get the radio playing, THEN
recap. A lot of people use variacs to bring up the voltage slowly, just to
ensure there is no extreme current draw, before putting full power to the
radio. Personally I remove the vibrator and rectifier (remember I deal
mainly with car radios) and put a power supply to it. I've got a high
voltage power supply which provides 250 volts, measures current, and has
overcurrent protection. If you're starting out and don't have any of these
goodies, you can test it in a primitive fashion by putting a light bulb in
series with the radio when you plug it into the wall. If the light bulb
comes on bright, you want to investigate before applying full power to the
radio.
Once it's safe to turn on, and once you are at least to the point of hearing
intelligible noises, then you can proceed with recapping. As Eddie said, do
three or four at a time, then reapply power. It can be interesting to find
that the sound is suddenly stronger or clearer, but more importantly you
want to verify everything was done right before proceeding. If the radio
worked, then suddenly quit after replacing three caps, you'll obviously want
to double-check those three caps. Were the connections soldered? Is one of
the leads touching the chassis? Troubleshooting a couple capacitors is far
easier than troubleshooting the entire radio after you've replaced
everything.
jim menning
"Jim Berg" <jimf...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23593-44B...@storefull-3115.bay.webtv.net...
Looks very similar to a Sparton 667 cabinet.
jim menning
James Sweet
Well crap, you're right! The inside of the cabinet is painted dark blue,
but I can see looking closely where it has been cut out below the dial
opening and that piece patched in there. The shelf the chassis sits on
has also been dropped down about 3/4".
What are the chances of finding an appropriate cabinet? I'm tempted to
restore and sell the chassis otherwise, or get it working, put it
together and sell the whole unit. As anal as I am it would never stop
bothering me to have it in the wrong cabinet.
Gordon Richmond
>but I can see looking closely where it has been cut out below the dial
>opening and that piece patched in there. The shelf the chassis sits on
>has also been dropped down about 3/4".
>
>What are the chances of finding an appropriate cabinet? I'm tempted to
>restore and sell the chassis otherwise, or get it working, put it
>together and sell the whole unit. As anal as I am it would never stop
>bothering me to have it in the wrong cabinet.
Well, if it were me, I'd go ahead and get the set working, as a practice exercise if
nothing else. Then, if the wrong cabinet offended me, I'd put it away until a chance to
acquire the right cabinet came along.
Gordon Richmond
Eddie Brimer
good eye jim. i knew i didn't recognize the cabinet. how many 7 tube
consoles did zenith make in 38? 3 or 4 maybe? the chassis should have
a white model number stamped on it. usually above the antenna
connection or thereabouts. does it still have the zenith speaker? if
so, that should narrow it down. there will be a cabinet come up on
ebay eventually, but it won't go real cheap and you will have to wait.
i have chassis (or cabinets) i have waited years to find the right
missing part. most are still sitting. your chances should be a little
better on one like this since they are so common. i think if it were
me, i would put the chassis on ebay and buy another radio to restore.
maybe someone here will pop up with a cabinet. good luck.
Ken G.
etc. at one time. has nothing to do with it being your first radio
resto....it can make things really complicated. i would swap the
filters and get it to play before i started snatching all the caps out.
i speak from experience. i get it playing, swap a couple out, check it
out, then do a couple more.
That is the best advice you can hear .
That cabinet looks real good even though its wrong . Restore it and keep
it together then decide if you want to sell it or hunt for a cabinet .
That radio as is restored would sell for 4 to 5 hundred $ here .
RadioGary
still would have picked it up. For the fifty bucks you paid for it,
the chassis alone restored would be worth a couple of hundred dollars.
What about the speaker? Is it a Zenith speaker that plugs into the
back of the chassis and does it have a large gold colored behive like
thing over it?
John Goller, k9uwa
jmenni...@new.rr.com says...
>
>
>
>Looks very similar to a Sparton 667 cabinet.
>
>jim menning
>
>
Yes it is a Non-Zenith cabinet... but not all that bad looking..
do NOT BUY THE GLASS FROM ANTIQUE ELECTRONICS SUPPLY ...
IT WILL NOT FIT CORRECTLY ... the one they are selling has too
much concavity to it and will set the chassis back into the cabinet
too far....
your looking for an 8 1/2" glass order it from Bill Turner
dial...@webtv.net
1117 Pike Street,
Saint Charles, MO 63301
Phone: 636- 949-2210
See Bill's website for the prices on the glass..
The Chassis is correct for a Walton 7 tube radio... and sold after
proper restoration will bring considerably more than you paid...
also if the Zenith speaker is there its worth about 1/2 of
what you paid unless its the one with the accoustic adapter then
its worth more than U paid for the whole works..
Also fits 7s260 would be the correct zenith console cabinet..
John k9uwa
Bill Sheppard
Welcome! It's always refreshing when younger folks take an
interest in vintage tube radios. Warning however: it's very addictive
and you will soon be assimilated.<g
Here's a couple of neat sites that might help narrow
down what the original cabinet and grille cloth may have looked like:
www.radioblvd.com/ZenithPhoto.htm www.radiophile.com/12s267.htm
What is the tube count (incl. tuning eye),
7 or 9?
Bill(oc)
Eddie Brimer
never had a prob with the dial glass......
Eddie Brimer
looks like a 7 tuber. the tuning knob appears to be one piece. the 9
and 12 tube chassis had a knob for the motorized tuning.
James Sweet
>
> good eye jim. i knew i didn't recognize the cabinet. how many 7 tube
> consoles did zenith make in 38? 3 or 4 maybe? the chassis should have
> a white model number stamped on it. usually above the antenna
> connection or thereabouts. does it still have the zenith speaker? if
> so, that should narrow it down. there will be a cabinet come up on
> ebay eventually, but it won't go real cheap and you will have to wait.
> i have chassis (or cabinets) i have waited years to find the right
> missing part. most are still sitting. your chances should be a little
> better on one like this since they are so common. i think if it were
> me, i would put the chassis on ebay and buy another radio to restore.
> maybe someone here will pop up with a cabinet. good luck.
>
Yes it still has the Zenith speaker, the internals are surprisingly intact.
My current line of thought is I'll repair the chassis and get it all
cleaned up and working, then I'll go from there. The cabinet doesn't
really look too bad and is actually very similar to the Zenith cabinets
of the era. I doubt anyone who will ever see it in my house would ever
know the difference unless I told them. If the correct cabinet turns up
I'll take care of the details like authentic knobs, or if another radio
in it's correct cabinet comes along then I'll sell this or the chassis
and speaker but for now it should be a good practice restoration as I've
done almost no work on tube electronics. What I've done so far has been
a pleasant change of pace from modern surface mount ICs, no magnifier or
bright light needed for this stuff.
James Sweet
> If it was me buying this set and saw the cabinet was not original, I
> still would have picked it up. For the fifty bucks you paid for it,
> the chassis alone restored would be worth a couple of hundred dollars.
>
>
> What about the speaker? Is it a Zenith speaker that plugs into the
> back of the chassis and does it have a large gold colored behive like
> thing over it?
>
>
There's nothing over the back of the speaker but it is a Zenith speaker
with the original intact wiring and looks to be in very good condition.
James Sweet
It's a 7 tube. A number of them are *very* weak though so I need to pick
up some replacements. Anyone on here got a stock of old tubes? I'd
rather purchase from other collectors than ebay or online dealers,
especially if I could get most or all the tubes I need from one place.
Am I correct in thinking this chassis would have originally had all ST
envelope tubes? At the very least I'd like to avoid the metal ones,
there's some of those in there and they just don't have the charm of
sparkling glass tubes. I'm not one of those audiophools who thinks tubes
have magical accoustical properties but they sure are neat to look at.
Gary Tayman
Allow me to give you my personal opinion:
First off, on that "incorrect" or "frankenradio" console, although it is not
a concours-correct unit, all things considered it's still a very nice
looking radio. The wood finish is a long way from perfect, but with a
little polish it's nice enough to put on display in your family room or den
and make into a nice conversation piece. Since this is your first such
project, it's a great unit to practice on. After you've rebuilt the chassis
and have the radio singing nicely, you can then, at your own pace, take a
swing at cabinet refinishing. The proper use of toner will help cover up
that rectangle under the dial. Since there is no "correct" or "incorrect"
grille cloth you're free to pick whatever style you think will look good.
If the color ends up not looking right you can strip it down and try
again -- or you can settle for what you have, or simply darken it -- again,
it's not correct or incorrect.
In the world of collector cars, there are restored classics and there are
customs. On one hand, some people look at customs as being "butchered" and
ask why someone would mess up such a classic, but then you must consider
that most such cars were pretty much junkers to begin with, and these people
have used their own imagination to create a new exciting concept. As a
couple of examples, the cover of Cruise News (a Florida-based car magazine I
write for) has a customized Lincoln Zephyr on it. If you visit
http://www.cruisenewsonline.com/ immediately you can see it on the cover.
The July issue (which will be posted on the website any time now) has an
interesting gold 52 Chevy -- the sides look like a Corvette and the back
looks like a Cadillac; it's weird but nicely done, and it certainly grabs
your attention. I saw this car at Cocoa Beach, and the photos don't do it
justice! Such customs at an auction actually bring in more money than a
restored version of the same car. As for me personally, I prefer
originality, but I indeed appreciate customs when they're done right.
It's not quite that way with radios, but I have indeed seen some nice
mods -- A Crosley console comes to mind where the fellow removed the record
player and replaced it with some nice woodwork over the enlarged speaker
opening. I thought it was the nicest looking radio in the room -- and then
he told me he modified it!
In any case, I think you can make a really nice radio out of this -- and
then, with some real experience under your belt, your next one (believe me,
there WILL be a next one!) will be that much better.
Mark Oppat
original. I even have most of them in the original Zenith etched base types
but for this you dont want to spend that kind of money. I have many Zenith
printed types too, they are more reasonably priced. These are not on my
website, just for us restorers.
email me at moppat at comcast dot net.
Mark Oppat
"James Sweet" <james...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UADsg.14601$Wh7.1584@trnddc07...
Bill Sheppard
There's one point i was hoping someone would make, but so
far no one has: if you elect to power up the radio before a full recap,
there is one cap (other than the electrolytics) that is super critical
and _must_ be replaced before powerup. That is the coupling cap going to
the grid of the AF output tube. If it's leaky (and it's 99.9% guaranteed
to be), it will drive the grid positive and make the tube overconduct.
If the tube is of the 6F6, 6K6, 6L6, 6V6 family, the
control grid is pin# 5.
Bill(oc)
AuroraOldRadios
Denver Friday. The Sparton I saw was in fair shape, missing the outer
dial glass and it needed to be refinished. Asking price at the start of
the sale was $125. I would guess a little later in the day it was
marked down.