The CCrane radios...

[rrus...@hotmail.com]

I have three of them. They are really disappointing to tell the truth
and I think someone could make a good cottage business building a GOOD
AM set for the few people that really want them BCB only means no
bandswitch which was the bane of analog comm radios.

[Radiola3]

No offense, but if they are a disappointment, why did you buy three of
them? :)

[Frank]

What is "BCB"?

[Brenda Ann]

"Frank" wrote in message
news:9af9eeb5-7b07-45e0...@p7g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Short for AMBCB: AM Broadcast Band

[Michael Black]

"BC Band" or to extend it further "Broadcast Band".

Michael

[dave]

MW

[rrus...@hotmail.com]

On Feb 10, 9:17 pm, Radiola3 <n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> No offense, but if they are a disappointment, why did you buy three of
> them?  :)

No offense taken, I bought two, one as a gift, one from a guy who put
a subcarrier adapter in it, the third was a dumpster find from a
friend. It had an open power supply wire I easily fixed.

[Frank]

That's what I thought, but it was confusing as used in the sentence,
punctuation/placement-wise.

[Michael Black]

Yes, I thought he was making a joke, but I didn't see how "BCB" translated
to "no bandswitch".

A joke along the line of NTSC (the color tv standard) meaning "never the
same color".

Michael

[Radiola3]

I see. Interesting though how they are advertised as such a great
radio but this is the first time I've heard anything about them
performance wise. Coming from a fellow radio enthusiast like yourself
I find that kind of sad. Then again there's nothing like some of the
older sets, right?

[Brenda Ann]

"Michael Black" wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.12...@darkstar.example.net...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What he said was that "BCB only" equates to no bandswitch. The punctuation
leaves a bit to be desired.

[George Conklin]

"Michael Black" <et...@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.12...@darkstar.example.net...

Michaea


=====

Never twice the same color.....................

[Carter]

On 2/12/2012 12:21 AM, Michael Black wrote:

> A joke along the line of NTSC (the color tv standard) meaning "never the
> same color".

When I worked at a major large city CBS-TV outlet and we changed from
black and white to color, I learned it as "(N)ever (T)wice the (S)ame
(C)olor.

[William Sommerwerck]

> When I worked at a major large city CBS-TV outlet and we changed
> from black and white to color, I learned it as "(N)ever (T)wice the
> (S)ame (C)olor.

This was wholly the fault of the broadcasters, and not the system itself.

[dave]

The guys at NBC painted a banana blue and put it in a bowl of fruit,
prior to sending a closed circuit color TV test to RCA labs in Jersey,
via microwave. It really messed with their heads. How could we have
gotten yellow so wrong?

[Michael A. Terrell]

Carter wrote:
>
> On 2/12/2012 12:21 AM, Michael Black wrote:
>

> ? A joke along the line of NTSC (the color tv standard) meaning "never the
> ? same color".

>
> When I worked at a major large city CBS-TV outlet and we changed from
> black and white to color, I learned it as "(N)ever (T)wice the (S)ame
> (C)olor.

The National Television standards Committee (NTSC) predated color
broadcasting. It set the earlier monochrome standards and worked to
create the color compatible system to prevent the obsolescence of
existing televisions.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

[Carter]

>> When I worked at a major large city CBS-TV outlet and we changed
>> from black and white to color, I learned it as "(N)ever (T)wice the
>> (S)ame (C)olor.

On 2/12/2012 10:12 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

> This was wholly the fault of the broadcasters, and not the system itself.

"...wholly the fault of the broadcasters"?

Well, if you say so...

...but to the best of my knowledge, this saying originated at the RCA
Labs when the NTSC system was being developed, well before the
technology and equipment filtered down to the real-world TV stations.

I quote no less of an authority on this than Dr. Alex Magoun, curator of
the Sarnoff library, who told this story to us in person at one of the
Early TV Museum conventions.

[CalBubba]

On 2/10/2012 6:40 PM, rrus...@hotmail.com wrote:
> BCB only means no
> bandswitch which was the bane of analog comm radios.

I'm interested, but I can't decipher what you wrote.
Spelling out terms is helpful to your readers. Why is the absence
of a band switch a problem?


Please tell us exactly what is wrong with these products.
Are they all the same model?
Are the parts ratty? Unable to withstand normal handling?
Poor performance?

Thanks, Russton.

The Bubba of The West

[William Sommerwerck]

"Carter" <k8...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:jh8vc3$ag1$2...@dont-email.me...

There is nothing inherently unstable about NTSC. Color variations are due
either to bad camera setup or poor studio practice, or to differential phase
error in transmission. The US's microwave systems were not bothered by the
latter.

Think back to when your cable system was analog -- and almost everything was
NTSC. When did you ever see messed-up color?

I recently had the pleasure of watching every episode of "Barney Miller" on
DVD. ABC's "studio practices" were atrocious, with misregistered vidicons,
and color/saturation shifts that would have occurred regardless of the
system in use.

[Michael A. Terrell]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> "Carter" ?k8...@ameritech.net? wrote in message
> news:jh8vc3$ag1$2...@dont-email.me...
>
> ??? When I worked at a major large city CBS-TV outlet and we changed
> ??? from black and white to color, I learned it as "(N)ever (T)wice the
> ??? (S)ame (C)olor.
>
> ? On 2/12/2012 10:12 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> ?? This was wholly the fault of the broadcasters, and not the system itself.
>
> ? "...wholly the fault of the broadcasters"?

> ? Well, if you say so...
>

> ? ...but to the best of my knowledge, this saying originated at the RCA
> ? Labs when the NTSC system was being developed, well before the
> ? technology and equipment filtered down to the real-world TV stations.
> ? I quote no less of an authority on this than Dr. Alex Magoun, curator of
> ? the Sarnoff library, who told this story to us in person at one of the
> ? Early TV Museum conventions.

>
> There is nothing inherently unstable about NTSC. Color variations are due
> either to bad camera setup or poor studio practice, or to differential phase
> error in transmission. The US's microwave systems were not bothered by the
> latter.
>
> Think back to when your cable system was analog -- and almost everything was
> NTSC. When did you ever see messed-up color?
>
> I recently had the pleasure of watching every episode of "Barney Miller" on
> DVD. ABC's "studio practices" were atrocious, with misregistered vidicons,
> and color/saturation shifts that would have occurred regardless of the
> system in use.

That was a low budget show, so it didn't get the best equipment.
There was little or no thought of syndication to pay for better quality,
so it was shot to basic broadcast grade video tape.

I watched a bunch of episodes of 'Barney Miller' on Crackle.com, and
there were a lot of 'Night Court' episodes on Youtube.com, along with
some old movies.

[William Sommerwerck]

>> I recently had the pleasure of watching every episode of "Barney Miller"
>> on DVD. ABC's "studio practices" were atrocious, with misregistered
>> vidicons, and color/saturation shifts that would have occurred regardless
>> of the system in use.

> That was a low budget show, so it didn't get the best equipment.
> There was little or no thought of syndication to pay for better quality,
> so it was shot to basic broadcast grade video tape.

How do you know any of those things?

TV shows rarely make money for the producer in their initial run.
Syndication is often needed to show a profit.

[norml]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrotf:

>
>There is nothing inherently unstable about NTSC. Color variations are due
>either to bad camera setup or poor studio practice, or to differential phase
>error in transmission.

My recollection is that NTSC was finally tamed with the addition of the
Vertical Interval Reference signal some time in the late '60s, I think.

It allowed receivers to correct for the "differential phase error in
transmission."

Norm

[William Sommerwerck]

"norml" <norm...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:g4bgj7t60d3guhq8d...@4ax.com...

I'm not sure this is true -- though I could be wrong. Regardless,
differential phase cannot be corrected simply by lining up the phase of the
subcarrier.

[Michael Black]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012, CalBubba wrote:

> On 2/10/2012 6:40 PM, rrus...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> BCB only means no
>> bandswitch which was the bane of analog comm radios.
>
> I'm interested, but I can't decipher what you wrote.
> Spelling out terms is helpful to your readers. Why is the absence of a band
> switch a problem?
>

In anaylyzing it now, he's saying that most people don't care about a
radio that receives shortwave, they just want to receive the AM broadcast
band, likely even just the local stations.

In that context, a receiver that tunes only the AM BCB means no
bandswitch. And that's a good thing if you don't need it, since a
bandswitch adds cost, and can become intermittent.

Michael

[rrus...@hotmail.com]

On Feb 12, 12:23 pm, CalBubba <CalBu...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On 2/10/2012 6:40 PM, rruss...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > BCB only means no
> > bandswitch which was the bane of analog comm radios.
>
> I'm interested, but I can't decipher what you wrote.
> Spelling out terms is helpful to your readers. Why is the absence
> of a band switch a problem?

It's a nonproblem, bandswitches go bad. If all you want is one band.
A shortwave set is more useful because there is still SOME SWBCB, even
if it doesn't have the stability or a product detector for SSB.

>
> Please tell us exactly what is wrong with these products.
> Are they all the same model?
> Are the parts ratty? Unable to withstand normal handling?
> Poor performance?

They work a little better than any common solid state drugstore AM
radio, about like the GE Superadio. A sixties or seventies AM only
Delco car radio will outperform them for selectivity and sensitivity
and audio quality. By a fair bit. As will many 30s, 40s, 50s tube
radios that are better than an AA5, that is with a separate RF amp in
front of the converter and preferably a tuned RF stage.

The audio section isn't that great and driving the speaker with an
external amp shows that it's just like any cheap speaker out of a boom
box. Coming off the headphone jack into an external amp and speaker
helps a little but not a great deal.

The LCD display on two of mine has progressively gotten weaker, also.
"Other Than That" they work fine.

I have a solid state Zenith AM/FM table radio that works as well as
the CCrane. It was a $1 Goodwill find. AC only.

[rrus...@hotmail.com]

On Feb 12, 11:26 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

PAL is a better system though, so was SECAM except that it was
expensive to manufacture. Multistandard sets became feasible once the
old style flyback gave way to the later one as on CRT computer
monitors after about 1990. Most old TVs made in Japan, Taiwan or
Korea, if you look at them internally, have unused board traces so
they could be built as NTSC or PAL sets.

The Brits and the French had better TV because they were willing to
obsolete the old ones. We weren't.

[rrus...@hotmail.com]

On Feb 12, 4:50 pm, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012, CalBubba wrote:

> > On 2/10/2012 6:40 PM, rruss...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> BCB only means no
> >> bandswitch which was the bane of analog comm radios.
>
> > I'm interested, but I can't decipher what you wrote.
> > Spelling out terms is helpful to your readers. Why is the absence of a band
> > switch a problem?
>
> In anaylyzing it now, he's saying that most people don't care about a
> radio that receives shortwave, they just want to receive the AM broadcast
> band, likely even just the local stations.
>
> In that context, a receiver that tunes only the AM BCB means no
> bandswitch.  And that's a good thing if you don't need it, since a
> bandswitch adds cost, and can become intermittent.

Yeah, if you are a dedicated BCB DXer. Or a sports or OTR rebroadcast
fan.
Shortwave is nice to have though and I have long thought if everyone
were presented with a GOOD shortwave set they would often wind up
listening to shortwave. There is a lot out there.

[William Sommerwerck]

>>> When I worked at a major large city CBS-TV outlet and we changed
>>> from black and white to color, I learned it as "(N)ever (T)wice the
>>> (S)ame (C)olor.

>> The National Television standards Committee (NTSC) predated color
>> broadcasting. It set the earlier monochrome standards and worked to
>> create the color compatible system to prevent the obsolescence of
>> existing televisions.

> PAL is a better system...

Actually, overall, it's slightly worse than NTSC. But the systems are pretty
much Tweelde Dum and Tweedle Dee. There is no major difference between them.
(Actually, the original NTSC proposal /was/ PAL. I have the copy of
Electronics magazine that shows this.)

> ...so was SECAM, except that it was expensive to manufacture.

SECAM is one of the most-badly engineered anythings I've ever seen. What is
particularly bad about it is that it puts the expensive part of the system
in the consumer's receiver, rather than at the studio.

[Michael A. Terrell]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> ?? I recently had the pleasure of watching every episode of "Barney Miller"
> ?? on DVD. ABC's "studio practices" were atrocious, with misregistered
> ?? vidicons, and color/saturation shifts that would have occurred regardless
> ?? of the system in use.
>
> ? That was a low budget show, so it didn't get the best equipment.
> ? There was little or no thought of syndication to pay for better quality,
> ? so it was shot to basic broadcast grade video tape.

>
> How do you know any of those things?
>
> TV shows rarely make money for the producer in their initial run.
> Syndication is often needed to show a profit.

From the production qality and the video recordings. The limited
camera angles indicate two cameras. They would have used film for
better quality if they thought it was worth it. Early broadcast video
tape and equipment leaft a lot to be desired, and didn't age well.

[Michael A. Terrell]

In your opinion.

[spsffan]

I had one for a while, so I'll chime in. First of all, the CCrane radio
is supposed to be (or WAS supposed to be when I got mine) optimized for
human voice, specifically, speech reproduction, in addition to long
distance reception.

I'll compare it with the GE Super Radio III, which I bought to replace
it. Actually, the CCrane preformed at it's designed for task fairly
well, it had better long distance AM reception than any other commonly
available consumer radio, though just a hair past the GE. FM was nothing
to crow about, reception about on par with the average boom box.

The biggest problem was that it was somewhat ackward to use, with the
digital display system and setup. It was okay if left plugged in in one
place, but it ate batteries like mad even if turned off. This is a
serious drawback to many digitally tuned radios, but my Sangean walkman
type radio manages to keep the presets for weeks and weeks, plus playing
8-12 hours a week, all on 1 AAA battery.

Overall, the CCrane radio might be good if you really want to pull in
faint AM stations in a specific location, and if you leave it plugged
in. It might also be good if you have trouble understanding speech on
such stations due to distortion. It isn't much for music.

Now, the GE Super III ( I have a Super II but won't comment on it
because it is not available...it is clearly a better radio than the
III). The GE is nearly as hot an AM DX er at the CC. Just as good if not
better on FM. Better sound quality overall, particularly for music,
though it certainly won't win any high fidelity awards. It's pleasant
enough, simple to use, runs nearly forever on set of dollar store
zinc-carbon D cells, is much more easily portable with a nice handle,
and it less than half the price. Oh, and it can play loudly enough to be
heard over a fair amount of ambient noise, which radios with better
fidelity generally can't. Mine's been put up in a small gym we have at
work, after several better sounding (and much more expensive) radios
proved not up to the task of being heard over the weight machine, fan,
treadmill, etc.

But, the tuning is not very closely related to the number on the dial. I
guess one could open it up and make adjustments, and it's possible that
SOME samples are more accurate than others. Not a big problem unless you
are looking for specific stations by frequency, for which a digital
tuner is of course preferred anyway, but the GE is almost embarrassingly
bad in this regard. Pity.

Regards,

DAve

[Michael A. Terrell]

I have had a Radio Shack DX-375 for about 10 years. Here is one on
Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/300661802333

It uses two 'C' cells and they generally last me a couple years since
I generally only use it a few hours a week. I paid $50 for it new.

[George Conklin]

<rrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a850cf7c-5bd6-4e7e...@n12g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

=================

Screaming preachers, no BBC.

[Bill Cohn]

While VIR was available in the signal not many TV sets used the
reference to correct the signal. If I remember correctly only General
Electric and Panasonic made sets that took advantage of the VIR signal.
Most of the other manufactures used other techniques to make the color
picture more stable for the customer.

By the late sixties early seventies most sets had some form of auto
color level to keep the saturation level constant, like a color AGC.
Then most sets had a form of color color phase management that distorted
the demodulation phase angles that made the flesh tones look good in
most situations. Most of the stability came with the introduction of
solid state color circuits. They were more stable than the old vacuum
tube designs.

My experience comes from the 20 years I spent at Zenith as a TV design
engineer, during the 70s and 80s. I also sent 15 years at Tektronix
where we sold the signal generators for the VIR signal.

Regards,

N9MHT - Bill Cohn

[MarkS]

"George Conklin" wrote in message
news:AbGdnV7Lw-a6kqTS...@earthlink.com...

................................................................................

Yeah there are those religious broadcasts but other interesting things are
out there. Especially if you are multilingual. Listening to Beijing Hour
(British accent haha- seems stray cats and dogs are of importance in
Shanghai today) @ 6 MHz, on my 811K w/ a 20' wire laying on the floor in
NJ...this radio looks nice lit up w/ room lights off.

Mark

[David Griffith]

rrus...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I have three of them. They are really disappointing to tell the truth
> and I think someone could make a good cottage business building a GOOD

> AM set for the few people that really want them BCB only means no

> bandswitch which was the bane of analog comm radios.

I have a CCrane SW-Pocket that does a decent job. On the SW side it's
pretty crappy, but I assume that's because few transmitters are aimed at
the US. I could probably get better SW reception if I clip on a wire
antenna. Lack of sideband reception on shortwave is a bit of a drag
when trying to get numbers stations.

--
David Griffith
davidmy...@acm.org <--- Put my last name where it belongs

[Xmttrman]

I recall ABC used Norelco PC-70 series cameras... they had Plumbs but also used lots of germanium
semiconductors... I worked with PC-71s. The studios' temps varied a lot after the lights were turned
on... You could reg those beasts and before they were needed they needed tweaking again. I suppose
after a long "Barney" shoot, the PCs need a rereg but the production had to go on.

[Xmttrman]

Were you on the design team of the 144(0)? Not a bad box... it would work well keeping the sync
levels constant on the old GE rig I maintained. Sometimes the network's VIR would vary with the
signal due to proc amps at the phone company... back in 1976 the FCC cited us for incorrect VITS
levels... to solve that we deleted the NETs VITS and inserted ours. Those Chromacolor II sets lasted
a long time... the CRTs were well made, unlike the last ones that Zenith used.

[Xmttrman]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:42:02 -0800 (PST), rrus...@hotmail.com wrote:


> Yeah, if you are a dedicated BCB DXer. Or a sports or OTR rebroadcast
>fan.
>Shortwave is nice to have though and I have long thought if everyone
>were presented with a GOOD shortwave set they would often wind up
>listening to shortwave. There is a lot out there.

Lots to listen to unless one lives in a multi-unit condo. My SW receivers do a wonderful job of
picking up cable modems, SMPSs, plasma TVs, smoke alarms, elevator relays, etal.

[George Conklin]

"Xmttrman" <xm...@rf.tv> wrote in message
news:magqj7d5natrh3fmg...@4ax.com...

Add to that, light dimmer switches.

[Bill Cohn]

On 2/16/2012 11:46 AM, Xmttrman wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:50:31 -0600, Bill Cohn<bill...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2/12/2012 3:22 PM, norml wrote:
>>> "William Sommerwerck"<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrotf:

>>

>> While VIR was available in the signal not many TV sets used the
>> reference to correct the signal. If I remember correctly only General
>> Electric and Panasonic made sets that took advantage of the VIR signal.
>> Most of the other manufactures used other techniques to make the color
>> picture more stable for the customer.
>>
>> By the late sixties early seventies most sets had some form of auto
>> color level to keep the saturation level constant, like a color AGC.
>> Then most sets had a form of color color phase management that distorted
>> the demodulation phase angles that made the flesh tones look good in
>> most situations. Most of the stability came with the introduction of
>> solid state color circuits. They were more stable than the old vacuum
>> tube designs.
>>
>> My experience comes from the 20 years I spent at Zenith as a TV design
>> engineer, during the 70s and 80s. I also sent 15 years at Tektronix
>> where we sold the signal generators for the VIR signal.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> N9MHT - Bill Cohn
>
> Were you on the design team of the 144(0)? Not a bad box... it would work well keeping the sync
> levels constant on the old GE rig I maintained. Sometimes the network's VIR would vary with the
> signal due to proc amps at the phone company... back in 1976 the FCC cited us for incorrect VITS
> levels... to solve that we deleted the NETs VITS and inserted ours. Those Chromacolor II sets lasted
> a long time... the CRTs were well made, unlike the last ones that Zenith used.

I was at Zenith when the 1440 was designed not Tek. I worked at Tek from
1995 to 2009 with a 4 year break in the middle when I was at Harris. At
Tek and Harris I was on the sales team.

You are correct about the last of the Zenith CRTs. The union in the
Melrose Park, IL plant got wind of the sale to LG and they let the
quality go out the window.

At Zenith I designed TVs from 1973 till 1982 when I switched to the
Cable TV group. Some of the best Zenith Solid State sets came from that
time.

Regards,

Bill - N9MHT

[Michael A. Terrell]

Xmttrman wrote:
>
> I recall ABC used Norelco PC-70 series cameras... they had Plumbs but
> also used lots of germanium semiconductors... I worked with PC-71s.
> The studios' temps varied a lot after the lights were turned on...
> You could reg those beasts and before they were needed they needed
> tweaking again. I suppose after a long "Barney" shoot, the PCs need
> a rereg but the production had to go on.

I liked the RCA TK46 we used at WACX. They were four Plumicon cameras
that had beautiful video and could be used all day without drifting.
The problem we had was the power supply boards in the cameras failing
because the fans in cameras had to be shut off when the studio was in
use. Telethons were the worst, when the studio was in use 16 or more
hours a day. I would have to slip into the studio and change boards
between camera shots. Then repair the board and have it ready for
another failure. This was in '87 & '88. The station replaced them with
Sony chip cameras, rather than pay $14,000 each for matched sets of
Plumicons every few years and you could see the difference immediately.
The older cameras were a lot sharper than the digital cameras. I think
they were like the camera in this listing, but they were replaced after
I left the station. The cheif engineer told me they gutted the RCA
cameras and mounted the Sony inside so they could use the RCA's zoom
lens & teleprompter.

<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-DXC-M3-Video-Camera-Tamron-VCL-914BY-Zoom-Lens-/220954370124>

[Tim Mullen]

In <jhjkpj$i2r$1...@dont-email.me> Bill Cohn <bill...@gmail.com> writes:

>1995 to 2009 with a 4 year break in the middle when I was at Harris. At
>Tek and Harris I was on the sales team.

I hope you didn't have anything to do with the Harris X-50, a
1RU downconvert-crossconvertor box. Controls labelled with NEGATIVE
PERCENTAGE? I have not the words. :)

--
--------------------------- Tim Mullen ---------------------------
Am I in your basement? Looking for antique televisions, fans, etc.
finger this account or call anytime: (212)-463-0552
----------- Living in the future, playing in the past ------------

[Bill Cohn]

On 2/16/2012 7:51 PM, Tim Mullen wrote:
> In<jhjkpj$i2r$1...@dont-email.me> Bill Cohn<bill...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> 1995 to 2009 with a 4 year break in the middle when I was at Harris. At
>> Tek and Harris I was on the sales team.
>
> I hope you didn't have anything to do with the Harris X-50, a
> 1RU downconvert-crossconvertor box. Controls labelled with NEGATIVE
> PERCENTAGE? I have not the words. :)
>

Do you mean the X-75. Very popular product. I was part of the Videotek
team and sold test equipment.

[Tim Mullen]

In <jhkc68$od6$1...@dont-email.me> Bill Cohn <bill...@gmail.com> writes:

>On 2/16/2012 7:51 PM, Tim Mullen wrote:
>>
>> I hope you didn't have anything to do with the Harris X-50, a
>> 1RU downconvert-crossconvertor box. Controls labelled with NEGATIVE
>> PERCENTAGE? I have not the words. :)
>>
>Do you mean the X-75. Very popular product.

No, X-50. For all I know they're related. The X-50 is the only
bit of Harris gear we have in house (we're post).

The box does indeed do what you want once it's on board with your
mission, but lord-O-mighty it's a struggle getting it to listen to you.
Wanted to do a slight push-in, so started frobbing the scalar H. size
and V. size controls -- with the negative percentages. Not much
happening, look up and notice the box crashed. Oy. A machine should
NEVER crash simply because you adjusted the (web based) knob.

Sorry for the rant! :)

> I was part of the Videotek team and sold test equipment.

Didn't even realize Videotek got swallowed up. Shows what I know.

[Robert C]

Xmttrman wrote:

> Those Chromacolor II sets lasted a long time... the CRTs were well

> made,unlike the last ones that Zenith used.

i still use one as a daily driver. it was made in Oct 75. still has the
original C.R.T & HV Tripler. got it from the original owner 17 years ago. i
only had to service it twice in all that time.

[dave]

Barney Miller was shot in low light.

[William Sommerwerck]

"dave" <da...@dave.dave> wrote in message
news:nd6dnYVZcovf1qPS...@earthlink.com...

> "Barney Miller" was shot in low light.

On what basis do you say this?

There are individual episodes with reduced lighting (for various story
reasons), but most episodes were shot under what appears to be normal studio
lighting.

As for camera drift... "Barney Miller" was notorious for rewriting and
repeated takes into the early morning. The laugh track from season #2 onward
was not "live", but recorded when an audience viewed the final, edited
version.

[dave]

It was in the trades at the time. They wanted it to look less like tape.

[Michael A. Terrell]

All that would do is raise the noise in the plumicon amplifiers since
the stations still wanted usable modulation levels. It is also harder
on the transmitter & power bill to run a lot of dark scenes with
negative NTSC modulation. Does the phrase "Blacker than Black" ring any
bells?

[dave]

Funny you should say "ring" when talking about square waves (aka
"blanking pulses").

[Michael A. Terrell]

What's not funny is your failure to answer a question, aws usual. Do
you know anything about analog TV transmitters using negative video
modulation, or are you just building another straw man to deflect your
ignorance. Some TV transmitters carried warnings not to exceed a set
time of black or low luminence video. Some would just pop a circuit
breaker, while others would blow the visual final(s)

[dave]

My goodness! That's a hostile approach.

Black is about 63% modulation; the vertical sync pulses are the only
things that go to 100%. TV transmitters do not blow fuses when there is
black on the TV.

[Michael A. Terrell]

So, you've seen every NTSC negative modulation TV transmitter ever
built?

[Carter]

On 2/17/2012 8:42 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> All that would do is raise the noise in the plumicon amplifiers...

My apologies in advance for being the "Spelling Police", but this is the
third time you've posted it this way, so presumably it's not just a
one-time typo.

You say "plumicon".

It really is "plumbicon" with a 'b', named that way by Phillips because
of the lead oxide target (PbO) -- as in "Plumbic" or "Plumbous"
(depending on the valence) as in the ancient name for the metal lead.

Now ducking for cover (right after I put on my asbestos suit)...

[Michael A. Terrell]

Carter wrote:
>
> On 2/17/2012 8:42 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>

> ? All that would do is raise the noise in the plumicon amplifiers...

>
> My apologies in advance for being the "Spelling Police", but this is the
> third time you've posted it this way, so presumably it's not just a
> one-time typo.
>
> You say "plumicon".
>
> It really is "plumbicon" with a 'b', named that way by Phillips because
> of the lead oxide target (PbO) -- as in "Plumbic" or "Plumbous"
> (depending on the valence) as in the ancient name for the metal lead.

You're right. It got by the spell checker. My vision has been very
poor lately, due to spikes in my glucose levels. They are bouncing from
59 to 248 within a day, even though I haven't changed my diet, or done
anything to cause it. On those days I have to let the spell checker
have it's way, and hit send.

> Now ducking for cover (right after I put on my asbestos suit)...

No need, unless dave wants to flame your ass.

[rrus...@hotmail.com]

On Feb 16, 1:19 pm, Bill Cohn <billco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/16/2012 11:46 AM, Xmttrman wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:50:31 -0600, Bill Cohn<billco...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >> On 2/12/2012 3:22 PM, norml wrote:

> >>> "William Sommerwerck"<grizzledgee...@comcast.net>   wrotf:

You can't blame the bull for not servicing the cows when he overhears
the farmer say that after these cows calve, Toro is becoming a steer.

[rrus...@hotmail.com]

On Feb 13, 7:25 am, "George Conklin" <nilknoc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> <rruss...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

The screaming preachers are at least the ones on mainstream broadcast
channels. The reason they are not is because they are saying what they
really believe as opposed to the bought off ones who preach
destructive garbage. Yeah, some of 'em are really nuts, but at least
they are entertaining...

[dave]

I've been to transmitter school. I've worked master control and no one
ever warned me to not to leave the black on too long.

[dave]

Flame? You are not being persecuted.

[Michael A. Terrell]

OHH! Master Control! That doesn't mean anything, since it isn't
real broadcast engineering. I got a whole 15 minutes training for MC in
the US Army, and that was just to familiarize myself with the equipment
and layout of that station and to tell me what equipment wasn't
fuctional. I've repaired multiple TV transmitters, and red thousands of
pages of documentation on them. I was the one who's phone rang when
TOOD at MC was off the air. BTW, a NTSC, negative modulated video
transmitter's power disipation changes with the modulation. The average
is much lower for an all white scene VS all black. The sync and
blanking disipation are constant. The transmitters I maintained
mointored the average current and would trip overcurrent relays to
protect the finals. If that failed, you hoped that the time delay fuses
went, or you would be replacing all the finals. If they were like the
65 KW EEV Klystrons in the Comark at WACX that meant replacement, not
rebuild for reduced output. IOW close to $200,000 instead of $90,000
and maybe a few weeks off the air to have the repalcements shipped half
way around the world.

[Xmttrman]

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 07:40:30 -0600, dave <da...@dave.dave> wrote:


>> What's not funny is your failure to answer a question, aws usual. Do
>> you know anything about analog TV transmitters using negative video
>> modulation, or are you just building another straw man to deflect your
>> ignorance. Some TV transmitters carried warnings not to exceed a set
>> time of black or low luminence video. Some would just pop a circuit
>> breaker, while others would blow the visual final(s)
>
>My goodness! That's a hostile approach.
>
>Black is about 63% modulation; the vertical sync pulses are the only
>things that go to 100%. TV transmitters do not blow fuses when there is
>black on the TV.

Not to belabor the point but you probably recall doing power cals... Sync only... no setup.. tune
for max power and minimum smoke from the secondary cavity (!!) Thankfully those days are gone..I
put my G-Line out to pasture ( recycler) June '09. Now operating a Larcan SS. Anyone need a NIB
8984?

Xmttrman

[dave]

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:26:25 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

>> I've been to transmitter school. I've worked master control and no one
>> ever warned me to not to leave the black on too long.
>
>
> OHH! Master Control! That doesn't mean anything, since it isn't
> real broadcast engineering. I got a whole 15 minutes training for MC in
> the US Army, and that was just to familiarize myself with the equipment
> and layout of that station and to tell me what equipment wasn't
> fuctional. I've repaired multiple TV transmitters, and red thousands of
> pages of documentation on them. I was the one who's phone rang when
> TOOD at MC was off the air. BTW, a NTSC, negative modulated video
> transmitter's power disipation changes with the modulation. The average
> is much lower for an all white scene VS all black. The sync and
> blanking disipation are constant. The transmitters I maintained
> mointored the average current and would trip overcurrent relays to
> protect the finals. If that failed, you hoped that the time delay fuses
> went, or you would be replacing all the finals. If they were like the
> 65 KW EEV Klystrons in the Comark at WACX that meant replacement, not
> rebuild for reduced output. IOW close to $200,000 instead of $90,000
> and maybe a few weeks off the air to have the repalcements shipped half
> way around the world.

Been to Comark school in Connecticut, thanks.

My last big transmitter had 3 [ea] 44 KW IOT (aka klystrode) tubes, 12
solid state IPAs, a 2 gang Magic T combiner and a giant heat exchanger on
the roof. If we needed a tube it would be air-freighted and delivered on
a skid the next day.

It's hard to get a pure engineer job in TV these days. Union MCOs make
well north of 100K a year.

[Michael A. Terrell]

1: Didn't EEV go out of business?

2: A Klystrode is not a Klystron. They were introduced very late in
transmitter tube technology, to improve UHF TV transmitter's power
efficiency. They became available a few weeks after that Comark was
delivered and installed. It did have a 'Pulser' which reduced to
utility bill by about $15,000 a month. That was both increased
transmitter efficiency & reduced cooling loads. We had multiple water
chillers on the ground, under roof behind the transmitter room. The
cooling system had to be flushed once a year with Tyglos, flushed twice
with distilled water, then filled with a 50/50 mix of Glycol antifreeze
& distilled water. It would have been a royal pain in the ass to have
that on the roof, more than 60 feet off the ground and out in the hot
Florida sun. How would you like to carry 1500 gallons of distilled
water to the roof, each year, and do the entire job between sine off
sunday night and sign on monday morning? That facility was only off the
air for six hours a week for transmitter maintenance.

> It's hard to get a pure engineer job in TV these days. Union MCOs make
> well north of 100K a year.

Union? No damn way!

I never had a problem being hired as an engineer, till my health
failed. In fact, I got one job without even filling out an application,
and was 'Engineer of Record' on the CP. Another was in the military, so
of course that didn't need a resume or application to be filled out.
The other TV station told me they had no openings, but I could apply,
and it would be on file for a year. I filled it out that day, was
interviewed the next day, and started work the third day. Radio
Engineering was easier. The first was in the Army, the others were all
consulting work to help update existing stations.

[Xmttrman]

Our corporate answer to union MCOs is HUB all the O&O's master control operations. Transmitter
engineers are a lost breed.. no one is training techs to be one.... just think of the job benefits;
Be on call 24/7/365, be responsible for microwave sites, STLs, translators, ENG trucks... oh yeah..
be an IT expert also... The top five markets maybe pay ~$100K a year; the others, not so much.