GE Portacolor & Philco Ford
sphipps
Picked up today at a thrift store for $4 what looks like the early version
of the 10" GE Portacolor from 1966 or so, but it's branded as a Philco Ford.
They look almost exactly alike except for some minor cosmetic changes and
both use compactrons.
Anyone know if GE branded some of their Portacolors as Philco Ford, or did
Philco produce their own under a very similar design? Might post a pic of it
on the binaries tomorrow.
Thanks,
Steve P.
Joplin, MO
kawn...@nospamcableone.net
Larry
news:11g5cu8...@corp.supernews.com:
> 10" GE Portacolor from 1966
I bought one new around that time. Probably the worst TV I ever owned...
--
Larry
Larry Fowkes
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96B556F...@63.223.7.253...
The dot pitch of the CRT on the early sets was quite large leading to very
grainy images. The Portacolor was a long lived product line however going
through several iterations up until 1981 or 1982 I seem to recall.
Larry Fowkes
Andy Cuffe
It certainly could be a Portacolor. I've never personally seen a
rebranded portacolor, but I've noticed several in Sam's photo facts.
It would be easy to tell by looking inside.
Andy Cuffe
balt...@psu.edu <-- Use this address until 12/31/2005
acu...@gmail.com <-- Use this address after 12/31/2005
Larry
news:430338c6$0$3733$2c56...@news.cablerocket.com:
> The dot pitch of the CRT on the early sets was quite large leading to
> very grainy images. The Portacolor was a long lived product line
> however going through several iterations up until 1981 or 1982 I seem
> to recall.
>
Big dots and the WHITISH SCREEN, like those cheap Chinese B/W portables
still are...making it impossible to watch in anything but a darkened room.
As a portable, outside in the daytime, the word "useless" comes to mind....
--
Larry
frenchy
portables
still are...making it impossible to watch in anything but a darkened
room.
As a portable, outside in the daytime, the word "useless" comes to
mind.... >>
All true to a very large extent. Buuuut.... : /
I'm a Portacolor owner (along with collecting lots of other big
round-screen color sets) and just love this little cutie. Found it and
it's original cart, mint condition for $60 so I snapped it up.. It's
the very first '66 model, works like new since I first plugged it in
and don't see any repair work having been done on it. Pulls in
stations on the rabbit ears great in my horrible reception area,
certainly better than my big '64 RCA ctc-16. Nice color. Will never
sell this baby.
Yup, whitish screen and not very bright, but that was the norm for
almost all of the early/mid-60's color sets anyway, not made to watch
on your patio in the afternoon sun. The big round pic tubes weren't
exactly bright or black-matrixed-masked, they just tinted and
satin-ized the tube glass or safety glass to help darken it. You can
see that if you've ever pulled the safety glass off of an 21FJP22.
I don't think Port-os were aimed at outdoor watching, only as a
small tv that could be easily transported to a friend's house or to
another room. For one thing it still had to be plugged into 120v.
Mainly as a low-cost alternative for people who couldn't afford a big
color tv screen.
Sure, big dots basically from a 21" set's mask, but with that dinky
screen, unless you are watching it from less than a few feet away it
doesn't make that much difference. Since the tube was developed in
'63, how small did they have the ablility to economically (especially
on a cheaper small set) make dot pitch in '63 anyway? I don't know.
For a 10-inch screen, it would still hold it's own pretty good
sitting on a Kmart shelf amongst a bunch of 10-inch NEW sets at average
viewing distance. A COLOR tv tube designed during the Kennedy
administration whose chassis only used 12 tubes and could be carried
around in one hand by a little kid, and inline picture tube with
easy-as-pie accurate convergence and purity? Compared to it's brethren
21" roundie behemoths' pain in the ass gun adjustments? IMO it
deserves BIG kudos in many respects. The little color tv that could!
I think I'll watdch Leno on it tonight. But not too close! ; )
Frenchy
Larry
news:1124316688.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> not made to watch
> on your patio in the afternoon sun
"porta" means you can lug it from one darkened dungeon to the next...(c;
--
Larry
William Sommerwerck
very good TV -- remember that it was much, much cheaper than a 21" set. It
allowed many people who couldn't afford one the opportunity to own a color
TV.
Larry
news:taOdnUBaWYK...@comcast.com:
> It
> allowed many people who couldn't afford one the opportunity to own a
> color TV.
>
Me included. At the time I was teaching electronics at Sumter TEC in
Sumter, SC, for $7200/annum, a princely sum, indeed. Tec tried to hire all
military retirees looking for a hobby. The guy that replaced me after 7
years was USAF retired master sgt.
--
Larry
Bill Sheppard
more like 250V, while the little B&W sets' B+ was 125V. Been a lotta
years.<g
oc
Bill Sheppard
likely to last an unusually long time. This was attributable to the
narrow-deflection CRT which enabled the sweep circuits to run off low B+
(125V nominal), thus greatly extending tube life. This was also true of
the little GE B&W all-compactron sets of the same vintage.
Bill(oc)
frenchy
next...(c; >>
You won't see nuffin with it trying to watch a football game in your
lawn chair, but it ain't no CTC-5 either. I can easily watch it with
no problem in my bedroom with 3 other lamps and a pinball machine
turned on. That's with it almost maxxed on brightness of course. If
it's a darkened room, it doesn't need to be set nearly that high. I'd
test it against a fully opened patio curtain but I don't want the
neighbors to see me naked... and I don't think they want to see that
either 8 O
The set's even got separate lamps that backlight the two color controls
so you can see them easily in a darkened room (yeah yeah I know because
you'll NEED the room to be dark! : / ), none of the luxury-end 21
inch RCAs I have even came with that. Slick tuner controls. Oh ok
just to prove I'm not totally pro-Porta biased I'll pick on one thing I
don't like - the damn contrast control is on the back!
Power to the Porta! Power to the Porta! Long live the PortaColor!
Dat PortaColor be da shizzel dizzel !
Frenchy
William Sommerwerck
of a time in which American electronics firms were actually innovative, GE
in particular. GE made the world's first all-electronic digital clock radio,
which I still have and still works.
Bill Sheppard
>There's one other good thing to say
>about the PortaColor. It was the product
>of a time in which American electronics
>firms were actually innovative, GE in
>particular.
But one has to wonder though, if the Portacolor's spectacular longevity
isn't just a fortuitous spinoff of designing the set around a low B+
value. I.e., the desigbers weren't shooting for longevity, it 'just
happened'.
Now GE's household lightbulbs are *definitely* designed for short life.
:-)
Bill(oc)
Brenda Ann
"Bill Sheppard" <old...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:7323-430...@storefull-3174.bay.webtv.net...
> From William:
>
> >There's one other good thing to say
> >about the PortaColor. It was the product
> >of a time in which American electronics
> >firms were actually innovative, GE in
> >particular.
>
> But one has to wonder though, if the Portacolor's spectacular longevity
> isn't just a fortuitous spinoff of designing the set around a low B+
> value. I.e., the desigbers weren't shooting for longevity, it 'just
> happened'.
>
With over 25 years as a consumer service tech, I have never been impressed
with GE televisions. They were the only ones that didn't have a chroma
reference oscillator, instead using the 3.58 crystal as a bandpass filter.
Strange beasties, they were. Of course this was after they finally stopped
buying RCA chassis (which just about everyone was doing for a long time).
As far as AC only portables, I think the Zenith B/W sets were the best
overall. Good brightness and contrast, excellent sensitivity and
selectivity.
Bill Sheppard
>I have never been impressed with GE
>televisions. They were the only ones that >didn't have a chroma
reference
>oscillator, instead using the 3.58 crystal
>as a bandpass filter. Strange beasties,
>they were.
Yeah, do you remember that really weird one with an NE-2 bulb as the
burst keyer? We had one in with color sync all screwed up. The NE-2 was
'lighting up' normally, so it was discounted as a possible cause.
Finally it was replaced as last resort, and that fixed the problem. Go
figure
Bill(oc)
Larry
1...@storefull-3174.bay.webtv.net:
> Now GE's household lightbulbs are *definitely* designed for short life.
>:-)
>
Look on the bulb. GE doesn't make bulbs any more. Some are Chinese,
others are East European countries....
--
Larry
Randy or Sherry Guttery
> Yeah, do you remember that really weird one with an NE-2 bulb as the
> burst keyer?
Oh, yeah. They were a pain - I finally came to the (probably wrong)
conclusion that the neon was "keying" too easily - i.e. passing most
everything... Sorta like the note keyers in many mid-life Conn organs -
(mid-life: - half tube & half transistor). They too would sometimes key
too easily - making for "hung notes"... I guess that was their attempt
to make them truly like a pipe organ - hi! hi!...
best regards...
--
randy guttery
A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com
sphipps
Portacolor with those smoke tinted dial covers.
Steve P.
"Andy Cuffe" <balt...@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:arr6g11hrk2bva4vq...@4ax.com...
William Sommerwerck
> with GE televisions. They were the only ones that didn't have a chroma
> reference oscillator, instead using the 3.58 crystal as a bandpass filter.
> Strange beasties, they were. Of course this was after they finally stopped
> buying RCA chassis (which just about everyone was doing for a long time).
I didn't say GE products were necessarily of high quality, I said they were
innovative.
The use of the crystal as a bandpass filter (which I remember well from the
magazine articles) was an example of such innovation.
Bill Sheppard
>With over 25 years as a consumer
>service tech, I have never been
>impressed with GE televisions. They
>were the only ones that didn't have a
>chroma reference oscillator, instead
>using the 3.58 crystal as a bandpass
>filter.
Yeah, remember that other elderly fella (i forget his name now) who got
ticked and bugged out when we were discussing the 3.58 referance
oscillator? Makes you wonder if he didn't cut his teeth on GEs that
didn't use an oscillator. But it was clear he didn't understand the
function of the burst signal.
oc
robert casey
>
> With over 25 years as a consumer service tech, I have never been impressed
> with GE televisions. They were the only ones that didn't have a chroma
> reference oscillator, instead using the 3.58 crystal as a bandpass filter.
I thought it was more of a crystal "ringer" circuit. You gate
the video to the crystal during the burst period of the scan
line, and it "rings" the crystal to vibrate on its own during the
rest of the scan line. A buffer amp then passes this ringing
to the chroma decoders. THis ringing would preserve the phase
(if adjusted right).
Bill Cohn
Thats the way I remember the circuit crystal "ringer". We tried it in
one Zenith chassis (19DC20) in the early 70s while I was there. It was
so bad we canceled production within several weeks and went pack to the
standard phase locked loop. The color would change across the screen as
the the crystal output would diminish across the horizontal line until
the next bump from the horizontal gate.
I did not save all that much money in the long run.
Bill Cohn
Tim Mullen
If the crystal is in an oscillator circuit, this is called
injection lock. Injection-locked oscillators work, but have
a lot of phase noise -- obviously not a good thing for a chroma
demodulator.
--
Tim Mullen
------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I in your basement? Looking for antique televisions, fans, etc.
------ finger this account or call anytime: (212)-463-0552 -------
Steven
Brenda Ann wrote:
"With over 25 years as a consumer service tech, I have never been
impressed with GE televisions. They were the only ones that didn't have
a chroma reference oscillator, instead using the 3.58 crystal as a
bandpass filter. Strange beasties, they were. Of course this was after
they finally stopped
buying RCA chassis (which just about everyone was doing for a long
time).
"As far as AC only portables, I think the Zenith B/W sets were the best
overall. Good brightness and contrast, excellent sensitivity and
selectivity."
As for the Zeniths, I would never disagree with you about that, and I
have watched a few. Surprisingly though, I don't see where a 12 inch
early Trintron really makes a diference, and the nicest picture I own
right now is a 1990's mono GE cable-ready 19" with a curved screen and
vertical bad. Yes, I do have five Trinitrons. GEs tended to have all
the service booklets in a box on the back of the chassis, too (that I
LIKE).
Bill Cohn
I don't think Brenda is referring to current sets. GE has not made TVs
since they sold the brand to Thomson in 1985. Thomson has been making
GE and RCA sets in the same factories for about 20 years now. Thomson
recently sold that off to a group from China, TTE, so they don't really
make either brand anymore.
Bill Sheppard
>If the crystal is in an oscillator circuit,
>this is called injection lock.
>Injection-locked oscillators work, but
>have a lot of phase noise -- obviously not >a good thing for a chroma
demodulator.
RCA's phase-locked loop system was standard up until direct injection
was first used in the CTC-19 (the first 19" square screen set, with a
gob of 6GH8s in the chassis). The CTC-20 was the same chassis, but
adaped to the low-end 21" round screen set.
PLL appeared again in the CTC-25, but then direct injection became
standard in tube chasses thereafter (in RCAs that is).
Bill(oc)
maa...@panic.xx.tudelft.nl
> I don't think Brenda is referring to current sets. GE has not made TVs
> since they sold the brand to Thomson in 1985. Thomson has been making
> GE and RCA sets in the same factories for about 20 years now. Thomson
> recently sold that off to a group from China, TTE, so they don't really
> make either brand anymore.
TTE wouldn't happen to be the Chinese Thomson division? I know the
Polish division goes by the name of TTD...
---
Met vriendelijke groet,
Maarten Bakker.
Steven
pointing to them for some innovation or something else, although I
cannot remember exactly what (and that's your vague statement of the
day).
William Sommerwerck
"Bandpass" and "ringing" are the same thing, depending on whether you're
looking the frequency or time domain.
The amp was not so much a buffer as a "leveling" device.
jakdedert
Portacolor: <http://www.rwhirled.com/portacolor> My first color set was
the M213BWD pictured in the middle of the page (or one extremely close
to it in appearance. I almost cried when I dropped it 4' off a bar, but
was able to resurrect it by resoldering some of the pins back on to the
back of the CRT.
It died about five years later, for good....
Xmttrman
I have two of them (7-4880A). The electronics have never needed repairing BUT the pushbuttons...
that's another story. I haven't yet found a permanent way to fix them.
-Xmttrman
William Sommerwerck
product
> >of a time in which American electronics firms were actually innovative,
GE
> >in particular. GE made the world's first all-electronic digital clock
radio,
> >which I still have and still works.
> I have two of them (7-4880A). The electronics have never needed repairing
BUT the pushbuttons...
> that's another story. I haven't yet found a permanent way to fix them.
I have one of those, too. But you're off by about a decade. The first --
whose model number I don't have in front of my -- used VF tubes.
You're right about 7-4880's switches. They get Really Dirty and need drastic
cleaning to work. For a while.
Stephanie Weil
> You're right about 7-4880's switches. They get Really Dirty and need drastic
> cleaning to work. For a while.
Rob Casey (WA2ISE) has fixed these buttons after cleaning by sandwiching a
piece of saran wrap between the buttons and the switches themselves.
That seals them in.
He says it's been fine like that.
--
Stephanie Weil
New York City, U.S.A.
William Sommerwerck
drastic
>> cleaning to work. For a while.
> Rob Casey (WA2ISE) has fixed these buttons after cleaning by sandwiching
> a piece of Saran wrap between the buttons and the switches themselves.
> That seals them in. He says it's been fine like that.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm afraid to take it apart again. A good
cleaning requires unsoldering the switch "hats" and I don't want to do it
again.
By the way, I'm willing to sell both these legitimately collectable radios.
The older one (whose number I forget) is $190, which represents the original
$90 retail price, plus the $100 I spent for replacement VF tubes. (You get
the original, now-dim set as well, plus the instruction manual and two POP
cards.)
Please make an offer on the 7-4880. A brand-new top cover is included!
Bill Sheppard
>"Bandpass" and "ringing" are the same
>thing, depending on whether you're
>looking the frequency or time domain.
Not tryin' to be picayunish with William, but in color receiver
parlance, "chroma bandpass" refers to the stage(s) carrying the mainline
amplitude/phase modulated chrominance signal during the scan period.
Whereas the "burst" or referance signal appears only during the blanking
period. It consists of maybe 8 to 10 cycles phase-locked at 3.58.
This 'burst' then directly "rings" a crystal (as in early
GE practice) or locks a referance oscillator which free-runs or "coasts"
during the scan period. This constant-phase signal is passed to the
demods, where it's _combined with_ the main 'chroma bandpass' signal.
That's why if you lose the referance signal, you see
only the AM component of the chroma, with the phase-modulated component
missing.
oc