New Bike Day! Black Mountain Monster Cross

[Bill Lindsay]

It's a stretch for Riv-content here, but I promise there is some.  The obvious Riv content is limited to hemp twine, Newbaums bar tape, components from White Industries and Paul, who are Riv vendors.  I bought the CX70 front derailer and brakes from Riv.  The whole idea of a Monster Cross, or more correctly a drop bar mountain bike, definitely have Rivendell's fingerprints on it.  Anyway, here it is.

58cm Black Mountain Monster Cross
Cane Creek 40 headset
HED Belgium C2 Plus rims, Dura Ace hubs, Ultegra Skewers 10sp 12-30 Ultegra cassette.
WTB Bronson 29x2.0 tires with tubes
White Industries VBC 172.5mm cranks 42/26 rings
Shimano SPD pedals
CX70 front der
Ultegra rear der
Shimano 10sp barcons on Paul Thumbies
Paul Boxcar stem, modified cable stop
Salsa Cowchipper bars
SRAM S500 brakelevers
Shimano CX70 brakes
Niner Carbon seatpost
Avocet O2 saddle
Khaki Newbaums tape with amber shellac

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

[Deacon Patrick]

Where’s the bike? I see wheels, tires, cranks, handlebars, saddle, et all ... but not frame. Just a bunch of grass. Really green grass.

Great build, Bill! How do you like the WI cranks?

With abandon,
Patrick

[Bill Lindsay]

I've used White Industries VBC cranks for many years.  They are great.  I picked up these VBC arms off the list when Mark Reiner sold them a while back.  I bought the 42/26 ring set last year from Black Mountain when I was ordering a MR30 crankset for my mountain bike.  That crankset was waiting patiently for a build opportunity. 

Bill

[Deacon Patrick]

Great to hear, Bill. What specifically to you like about them? I’m particularly interested how in the MR30 rides as an external bearing bb. Is the stiffer noticable, and how? Does this translate to greater power transfer to the drivetrain/frame? Or, like frame flex, do square taper bb’s store and return the energy someway — afterall, it has to go somewhere. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick (who bought Silver cranks instead of switching to MR30, but remains MR30 curious)

[Bill Lindsay]

The things I specifically like about the MR30 are:

they come in 172.5mm length (rare in 1x11 mountain cranks)
they look nice (especially with a silver ring and pink extractors)
White Industries is a generous sponsor of Norcal High School Mountain Bike Racing League
Black Mountain Cycles stocks them

I don't have answers to your other questions about 'stiffer' or 'greater power transfer'.  They are cranks, RIDE!  Grin.

Bill

[Deacon Patrick]

“They are cranks, RIDE! Grin.”

Well, we both ought to be very scared, Bill, for we’re thinking alike. I came to the same conclusion. Great minds think alike, but so do mediocre ones. And only mediocre ones would take comfort in thinking alike. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Virgil Staphbeard]

Wow that looks great!

It sort of reminds me of my Piolet:

[Joe Bernard]

That's nifty. Love the color!

[stoker]

Great build! I purchased the same frame - I’m expecting it to arrive Saturday. ‘Modified Boxcar Stem’ - I assume you drilled it to accept the cable/housing?

[Jeremy Till]

Great build! I would contend that in this day and age, any new multi-surface bike that doesn't use disc brakes owes something to Rivendell, since they are some of the last holdouts supporting rim brakes with plump tires.  

[Deacon Patrick]

Great point, Jeremy. When I called my LBS to ask about 650b wheels for my wife’s Clementine build, the owner, who started the shop 25 years ago, was at first baffled by the rim brake rim request. When he called me back, Velocity build, for nearly twice what Rivendell was selling the same build. This deserves a new thread, but I was struck today by how much rough stuff absorbtion happens through the fork, and it’s hard to picture that happening as well through a beefy disk brake fork.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes, I voided my warranty by drilling out a brand new $125 stem.  The Horror!  :-)

Now it's freshly soiled with a smattering of East Bay Mud.  It's terrific.  Actually it rides like a Rivendell, as far as I can tell. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

[Belopsky]

Lovely.

What does it weigh? :p

[Mark in Beacon]

Bill Lindsay wrote:  It's terrific.  Actually it rides like a Rivendell, as far as I can tell. 

It's all in the twine.

I like the earthy vibe with the brown wrap and green frame. I did something along those lines with my L'Avecaise:

 

[Bill Lindsay]

Igor asked what it weighs

24.3 pounds with wire bead tires and with tubes. Figure 22.5 pounds with light tires and tubeless.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca.

[tc]

Really nice, Bill. The tucked up rear reminds me of the Karate Monkey. Should be quite nimble!

Congrats,
Tom

[Lum Gim Fong]

I like the drilled stem approach. Very cool!
Any noticeable diffs in braking with stem drilled vs. headset hanger vs. fork crown hanger? I don’t like the looks of hangers, but too chicken to drill a stem.

[Bill Lindsay]

This Boxcar Stem is tons stiffer than any hanger. That’s for sure. A good hanger like a Paul Funky Monkey is much nicer than low end hangers. I did it just to be trick.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

[Jonathan D.]

How does the ride compare to your other Riv bikes or the BMC Road? I would be curious where you would place it in the lineup. Great looking bike and build.

[Jay Connolly]

Great looking bike. Count me as a fan of the WI cranks, as well--and of the BMC frames. That colour really pops.

Jay

[John W]

Looks great! Curious to hear how you arrived at the brake placement?

And side question — did you get the brakes new, or from the parts bin? Looking for a pair myself.

[Eric Daume]

I think I'm pretty good at putting a bike together, but Bill's builds put mine to shame.

Eric

fellow BMC MC owner

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Mark in Beacon]

Bill mentioned he purchased the CX 70 brakes from Rivendell a while back. The CX 70 model was discontinued, and just about every place is out of back stock as well. A while ago I had a bead on a set somewhere, but delayed in ordering (less than a day) and poof! I  ended up with a  pair in trade, but had to sell the bike they were slated for--coincidentally the BG Hikari that Bill alerted me to. I wanted the CX 70 because they come with a washer set that lets them adjust to canti posts that run as close as 90mm--the spread on the Hikari fork, not atypical of that vintage.

Riv still carries the CX 50, slightly less refined but similar. Otherwise, you are probably looking at the second hand market, unless a retailer finds a stash somewhere. None listed on ebay at the moment.

[Bob Lovejoy]

The site below still shows sets of CX-70 brakes available.  They are discontinued as far as I know but this shop liked the brakes (for good reasons) and stockpiled some.  Anyway, I assume they are still available here... certainly worth a check.  The owner/seller was extremely helpful when I called him.

http://www.thegranarybicyclecompany.com

Bob Lovejoy

Galesburg, IL

[Lum Gim Fong]

Pauls would be nice, too.

[Bob Lovejoy]

Apologies for the reply-to-self...  Found the original post re: The Granary and CX-70 brakes...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/internet-bob/pDFKJ4xY73s/ysGoRtWkAQAJ

Bob

[jandrews_nyc]

Very nice ..I've been following BMC blog and curious about building up a lightweight off-road MC myself.

Bill, can you tell me your PBH?

Also, on those Shimano 10sp barcons, are the cable adjusters part of the shifter? or you added them to the cable itself?  

JS

[Bill Lindsay]

Jonathan D asked where I place this bike in my lineup

Second hook from the right.

Jonathan D asked for me to compare the ride vs Rivs and my Black Mountain Road.

I only buy framesets that fit me. I know the numbers well enough and myself well enough that I can always grab something that fits. I’ve done a LOT of builds for myself over the last decade and it’s gotten a little boring that I do a build, get on the bike for a first ride and it’s “yep, perfect again”. Anyhow this is a perfect fitting bike for rides that I feel like doing on a full rigid drop bar mountain bike. My Black Mountain Road is a perfect fitting bike for rides I feel like doing on a stripped down road racing bike. My Rivs each have their little “mood niche” as well. My Hillborne is set up to be my brevet bike. My two Rosco Bubbes are set up to be Bart bikes. They all fit perfectly and all ride well and I choose one based on mood. I don’t think of my stable in terms of ‘better’ or ‘worse’, and for as much as I know about bikes, I’m not as sensitive as the trail zealots or the planing zealots. I expect that may not be a satisfying answer.

[Bill Lindsay]

John W asked how I arrived at brake placement.

I installed the cantilever brakes DIRECTLY onto the cantilever brake posts. 😝. Maybe you meant something else? Brake lever placement was an educated guess based on the assumption that 100% of off road downhill braking will be done from the drops.

As others noted, when CX70s went out of production I took note. I stocked up with three sets. Now two of the three sets are on bikes and I’m getting a little antsy about that.

Rivendell might become one of the last bastions of rim brakes. Great drivetrain parts are plentiful, but brakelevers rims and brakes are getting scarce. Winter is coming...

[John Woo]

Haha. You got me. Should not hit reply before caffeinating.

What I meant to say was, I love the placement of the thumbies!

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/fOJJQ26aeEw/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[John Woo]

Props, Bob for that. Ordered a pair!

--

[Bill Lindsay]

Aha, by ‘brake placement’ , John W meant ‘shift lever placement’.

I placed them as wide as the 31.8mm section of the Salsa Cowchipper bars would allow. I chose the Salsa Cowchipper bars because the 31.8mm sleeve is quite wide. I decided against normal bar-con placement because they are flared drops and didn’t want them sticking out.

If I find that I want to do a lot of mountain biking, I might want to switch to a clutch rear der to mitigate chain slap. If I do that, I may switch to a SRAM 10-sp Brifter on the right hand side.

[Steve Butcher]

Really nice build, Bill !  Very nice even handlebar wrap, too!

[Belopsky]

This is cool. If I don't like my Kelly takeoffs I'll try thumb shifters on my Cowbell 3 bars

[Bill Lindsay]

jandrews_nyc asked about my PBH and the shifter setup. 

My saddle height is 75.5cm.  I dont remember if my PBH is 86 or 86.5. 

The cable adjusters are part of the Paul Thumbies.  Shimano barcons have no cable adjusters.  The shiftlever part comes of the barcon pods and mounts onto the Thumbie. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

[Andrew Patteson]

Wow, great looking bike!!  So very well thought out.

Andrew in SLC, UT

[nash...@gmail.com]

Those tires look super tough on there. I've only ever had rock n roads on my bmc. Imo perfect bike for east bay hills.

Nash Taylor
Oakland

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes, Rock and Roads will go on next, most likely.  I wanted to confirm that 50s would fit, and I want to use these up, so I can discard them with a good conscience.  The temptation is to go straight to Furious Freds or Snoqualmie Pass, but I really want to use tires from my internal inventory first.

Bill

[Mark in Beacon]

Forgot about the granary. I bought some A23 rims and a rack a while back, he hadn't listed the brakes yet. When that other post came up, I emailed to ask whether his price was for one brake or a full bike set and he never got back. (Some places were selling them very cheap once Shimano discontinued. Still, not a bad deal at $120. Looks like he's down to four sets.

[Belopsky]

This makes me want to put SRAM levers on my Gunnar

[John G.]

Bill, your bikes are always well-appointed and seem to fit you perfectly. Thanks for sharing pics, details, and data.

I know the intended use of the BMC is different than your Sam, but I’d love comparisons. I’m in between Sam sizes, and the BMC might be a better fit.

[Bill Lindsay]

A BMC Monster Cross with some Barlow Pass EL o light wheels would make a splendid road bike. Put some racks and fenders on it and now it’s a touring bike. It’s a very capable and very versatile bike.

[kobe]

Thanks for posting pictures of your BMC. I have one in orange and the new green is so loud, obnoxious and awesome it makes we trade up. Great build, I had 50's on mine but they were a tad big for the riding I was doing and went back to the Rock N Roads.

[Jonathan D.]

Thanks for the report. I have a 56 coming and I am excited to try it out. It seems like such a versatile bike.

[Bill Lindsay]

One slightly negative aspect of these SRAM brake levers on this flared drop handlebar:

The top of the SRAM S500 lever body is fairly flat and that offers a nice flat continuation of the ramp into the hood on a normal drop bar. On these flared drops, the lever is tilted inward and so that flat top is tilted as well. I find there is a corner on the outside trailing edge of the lever body that kind of pokes my hand. My full finger gloves are not padded at all. I’ll give it a little more time with padded gloves as well. I think I could shape the plastic of the levers to address the issue if it proves to be an annoyance. It’s just something I notice now in this new cockpit.

[Chris]

Great Looking bike! I have a Rootbeer MonsterCross and love it! Can't wait to get mine back to the West Coast this summer (Puget Sound area) and start riding again, Chesapeake VA sucks for cycling...  would love to have those wheels, I have A23s with 105 hubs with Rock 'n Roll tires and they are ok but the Belgiums would be the bomb! 

Chris

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:

It's a stretch for Riv-content here, but I promise there is some.  The obvious Riv content is limited to hemp twine, Newbaums bar tape, components from White Industries and Paul, who are Riv vendors.  I bought the CX70 front derailer and brakes from Riv.  The whole idea of a Monster Cross, or more correctly a drop bar mountain bike, definitely have Rivendell's fingerprints on it.  Anyway, here it is.

58cm Black Mountain Monster Cross
Cane Creek 40 headset
HED Belgium C2 Plus rims, Dura Ace hubs, Ultegra Skewers 10sp 12-30 Ultegra cassette.
WTB Bronson 29x2.0 tires with tubes
White Industries VBC 172.5mm cranks 42/26 rings
Shimano SPD pedals
CX70 front der
Ultegra rear der
Shimano 10sp barcons on Paul Thumbies
Paul Boxcar stem, modified cable stop
Salsa Cowchipper bars
SRAM S500 brakelevers
Shimano CX70 brakes
Niner Carbon seatpost
Avocet O2 saddle
Khaki Newbaums tape with amber shellac

[in Dallas nick]

[in Dallas nick]

 really like the build on your Black Mountain.

Nice job!

Did you cut the steerer tube on the fork or is that the original height of it?

Paul in Dallas

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 9:27 AM -0500, "in Dallas nick" <trueg...@att.net> wrote:

[Jonathan D.]

For anyone interested, here is a 56 on eBay.
Black Mountain Cycles Cyclocross Bike https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232777190738

[stoker]

I thought I should give Bill some credit - I had sort of forgotten about these bikes (I really liked the pink version but missed out) until Bill posted that he had purchased the latest iteration. I had been considering a bike that I could fender along with a chubbier tire for my winter commutes here in MN. So, I'm posting a pic of my build - transferred most of the parts from an early-gen Salsa Casseroll. Riv content? Nitto bars, Paul brakes and great clearances? Anyway, it fits right in with the Riv's in my stable. Thanks Bill! (and Mike at BMC)!

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 4:34:24 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:

It's a stretch for Riv-content here, but I promise there is some.  The obvious Riv content is limited to hemp twine, Newbaums bar tape, components from White Industries and Paul, who are Riv vendors.  I bought the CX70 front derailer and brakes from Riv.  The whole idea of a Monster Cross, or more correctly a drop bar mountain bike, definitely have Rivendell's fingerprints on it.  Anyway, here it is.

58cm Black Mountain Monster Cross
Cane Creek 40 headset
HED Belgium C2 Plus rims, Dura Ace hubs, Ultegra Skewers 10sp 12-30 Ultegra cassette.
WTB Bronson 29x2.0 tires with tubes
White Industries VBC 172.5mm cranks 42/26 rings
Shimano SPD pedals
CX70 front der
Ultegra rear der
Shimano 10sp barcons on Paul Thumbies
Paul Boxcar stem, modified cable stop
Salsa Cowchipper bars
SRAM S500 brakelevers
Shimano CX70 brakes
Niner Carbon seatpost
Avocet O2 saddle
Khaki Newbaums tape with amber shellac

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

That’s a green meanie right there. APPROVE