Some things to think about:

• MOST riders shove the saddle all the way back on the rails. Half of
those wish they could shove it back more. The limiters are the seat
tube angle, the seat post's setback, and the saddle rails. It is rare
to see a saddle shoved all the way forward; common for the rider to
want it back more. Half a degree--seems like a good way to go. On my
own custom, it's 71-degrees. I'd do that for our non-customs if it
wouldn't raise eyebrows, but...well, here we are!

• One degree over 55cm equals one centimeter. So, for a 56cm frame, it
just gives you the possibility (doesn't force it) of an ant's whisker
more than 1cm rearward. The "cost" of this is that you can't move the
saddle as far forward, but as long you're not poking the saddle toward
the bars and wishing it would go more, the added cm in back is only a
benefit. Does that make sense? It doesn't force you back; it allows it
if you want it, with no drawback UNLESS you're a triathlete.

• I have some suspicions as to why shallower STAs are not more common.
One is that riders are accustomed to 72s, 73s, and 74s. Long live
diversity of opinion and all that, but I have to do my best on the
bikes I design for our customers, and I think it's great idea.
Minority opinion, whatever--I'm not saying I'm smarter or others are
dumber, just that it makes sense to me.

• Bikes with supershort chainstays won't go shallow, cause the wheel
will hit the seat tube. That's an argument against short chainstays,
not shallow seat tubes.

• Most commercially available bottom bracket shells won't easily
accommodate both a big drop and a shallow seat tube angle. The "rear
angle of the chainstay and seat tube sockets is too steep for it. Our
shells are our design, and although they aren't freaky, they are
designed with shallowish seat tube angles in mind. (This may 'splain
why other lugged builders stick with steep, although it may be a
preference, too. They may believe the myth that short femurs should go
with steep seat tube angles. That is "flat-earth", but it is still the
common belief, simply because  it's been repeated and printed so
often. In any case, tiggers can do anything they want, easily, and
they don't seem to take advantage...)

I am pretty sure RR41 will make things clear. Think of the Da Vinci
drawing of the naked guy with long curly hair extending his arms.
Think of how that applies to arm reach and bar height. It's key, key,
key...

Anyway, it's only half a degree--and probably should be a whole one.
All it does is expand your rearward options by removing a centimeter
of your forward options (less on a 48 or 52; a bit more on a 60). It's
not a bad deal.

Bill M. is entirely correct----the halfa degree just gives you that
much more real estate in the area you want it.

We have the 56 in now. By Jan 2 - 4 we'll have another 56, plus two
each of the 48s, 52s, and 60's. They're coming in painted colors that
won't be final, so we'll repaint some of them, and that'll take a
week--but by Jan 12 we should have all sizes available for testing--
and if any of you are local, I sure hope you come by and try them.

We'll set them up with average stems, normal bars, and you're free to
take them for an hour, and...it'll be fun!

Grant

On Dec 21, 5:38 pm, "Bill M." <bmenn...@comcast.net> wrote: