five-five-nine
beth h
owner who's mad for 650b, his upshot was that there just isn't enough
"passion" (his word), not enough mystique (my word) perhaps, to get
the bike industry excited about making super high-end tires in a 559
(26" ATB) wheel size, or for that matter, mass-producing a
"sensible" (um, Atlantis-styled) 559-dedicated frameset to garner more
attention and raise something near the level of novel buzz that 650b
has generated.
After giving this a lot of thought, I find myself wanting to be the
cheerleader for more and better bicycles built around this still-
useful and awesome wheel size.
True, there are a lot of 20-year-old steel mountain bike frames out
there that can be rebuilt as all-rounder type bikes -- but either
their owners are selling them on ebay for tons of money, or they're
sitting on the frames expecting their cache to increase further
someday.
As someone with four bikes and three of them built around 559 wheels,
I just feel worried that the love for 559 is going to fade at RBW.
Yes, some Atlantis framesets are still available, but after this it's
unclear what the future of the Atlantis will be (and so far, the
Rivendellians have said little).
Am I the only one on this list who really, deeply cares about the
future of 559-wheeled bikes? If anyone else out there loves 559 like I
do, write in and say why, and what you hope the future brings for a
Rivendell model built around 559.
Atlantis?
Notlantis?
Feel free to opine.
Beth, considering a jersey design for lovers of this wheel size...
franklyn
Longleaf Cycles to focus on the 559mm wheel size. Surly's Long Haul
Truckers use 559 for smaller sizes.
I got into cycling late, and have the most experience with 700c and
now 650b. For my size (5'10" with 83cm pbh) 650b has hit a sweet spot
for me for the types of riding I do--mostly pavement, randonneering,
club rides, daily commutes. The big tire manufacturers do make decent
slick tires in that size, don't they? I have seen continental road
tires in 26", if I recall correctly.
Franklyn
amoll68
I'm 6' 3" tall, and ride a 63cm AHH. I think 559 is great, and due to
it's strength, is really the best wheel size for "adventure touring."
Most of my bikes are 700c, but I have two 26ers, including my 1992
Rain City Steelhead (MTB made by R+E Cycles, aka Rodriguez) which is
my HD touring bike, gravel adventure bike, and it's also my icy
weather commuter, because I can put the awesome Schwalbe Marathon
Winters on it. In touring mode, I ride on 26 x 2.0 Schwalbe Marathon
Extremes - a fantastic tire. They also make the Supreme in 559 - I use
that tire on 3 other bikes (2 700c and a 20" Bike Friday), and like it
a lot. I do currently run Paselas on two "vintage" bikes, because I
like the ride, and they look right with the tan sidewalls. Otherwise,
I'm a Schwalbe fan. The rear wheel on this bike is extremely durable:
Phil cassette hub, deep-V type profile Alex rim, 14G straight spokes,
laced 4-cross. I think that wheel will last awhile, even under my 200
lbs, plus gear.
Don't know how much worldwide touring is in my future, but 559 is the
right way to go there, too. I would think a 26" Bombadil would be an
ideal adventure touring bike.
I'm big enough to ride a well designed 29er MTB, but I'm perfectly
happy with my 26 x 2.4" Schwalbe Fat Alberts on my current FS MTB.
I'm also an admirer of Jim Thill's custom Curt Goodrich, riding on 559
Big Apples (I think?) That's a fine machine.
559 isn't going anywhere - no worries.
R/ Alex
Seattle, WA
P.S. I'm thinking 559 is popular in Europe also, esp. Germany - hence
the reason Schwalbe makes so many fine 559 tires? Just an
inference . . .
Tim McNamara
On Jan 7, 2010, at 6:19 PM, beth h wrote:
> At the end of a lengthy and thoughtful discussion between me and a
> Riv-
> owner who's mad for 650b, his upshot was that there just isn't enough
> "passion" (his word), not enough mystique (my word) perhaps, to get
> the bike industry excited about making super high-end tires in a 559
> (26" ATB) wheel size, or for that matter, mass-producing a
> "sensible" (um, Atlantis-styled) 559-dedicated frameset to garner more
> attention and raise something near the level of novel buzz that 650b
> has generated.
But such a tire would have 5000 times the market that a 650B tire
has. There may be fewer than 1000 650B wheeled bikes in the US (I'd
say it's quite likely but I've got no proof). 650B is a very, very
minor player in the market which is ruled by 700C and 559 (not in
that order). A good 559 would have a much larger potential market by
several orders of magnitude.
For touring bikes, 559 is probably the only size tire and tube you
can buy anywhere in the world there bike stuff is sold. Even 700C is
not universally available in places like Pakistan or India or most of
Africa. If you are touring there. Odds are slight that I will ever
have that chance or any particular interest. I've yet to adequately
tour Minnesota!
Marty
multiples of both 700 and 559 bikes over the years. As I mentioned in
the previous 26 thread, aesthetics play a part in my preferences, but
I'm not sure enough has been done to really look at a 559-based frame
in ways that would elevate it to the level of art or mystique that
700/650 rides have benefited from lately. IMHO - a 559 frame
"breathes" better - especially in 59+ sizes - and allows clever places
to tuck things in - like a pump behind the seat tube for instance.
Agree that a 559 Bombadil would be coo, but I'm thinking that
everything out there today based on 559 has MTB roots, and it would be
cool to see a clean sheet approach, with a little French DNA perhaps.
Marty
EricP
available to heavier than "normal" riders such as myself. (Okay, I'm
fat. Not as fat as before, but still fat.)
My Atlantis is 559 and my newly acquired Surly LHT is also 559 (in 58
cm frame, too). There are a few reasons why I think a new Riv 559
might not work -
1. When 559 was more common (Custom and Atlantis) 650B wasn't widely
available. Now, there are more 650B.
2. Related to above - "back in the day" there weren't wide 700C tires
available. Now 35s are not too uncommon and 40 or more is available.
So one can get at least semi-wide on a non 559 bike.
3. Surly just came out with a 559 LHT in the bigger frame sizes. And
from early indications, it's a slow start. Maybe things will pick up
in the spring, but QBP didn't sell the 58s and 62s quickly.
So the demand just might not be there.
Would I like to see one? Yeah. But don't think the buying public is
willing to shell out the money for it. At least not right now in the
current economy.
Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN
PATRICK MOORE
If anyone else out there loves 559 like I
do, write in and say why, and what you hope the future brings for a
Rivendell model built around 559.
As instructed, I am writing in to demand a Rivendell bike, road or other, built around the 559 wheel. All the better if it is a dedicated road fixed gear. I also demand that Rivendell produce a top quality 559 28 mm tire for road use. I promise to buy at least $500 worth of them.
Amen.
Patrick Moore
--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumesp...@gmail.com
(505) 227-0523
Steve Palincsar
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:19 PM, beth h <periwi...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> If anyone else out there loves 559 like I
> do, write in and say why, and what you hope the future brings
> for a
> Rivendell model built around 559.
>
> As instructed, I am writing in to demand a Rivendell bike, road or
> other, built around the 559 wheel. All the better if it is a dedicated
> road fixed gear. I also demand that Rivendell produce a top quality
> 559 28 mm tire for road use. I promise to buy at least $500 worth of
> them.
But Beth asked for reasons, not demands.
PATRICK MOORE
But Beth asked for reasons, not demands.
>
> As instructed, I am writing in to demand a Rivendell bike, road or
> other, built around the 559 wheel. All the better if it is a dedicated
> road fixed gear. I also demand that Rivendell produce a top quality
> 559 28 mm tire for road use. I promise to buy at least $500 worth of
> them.
Patrick Moore, bitterly snarling into his grizzled beard
Steve Palincsar
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > As instructed, I am writing in to demand a Rivendell bike,
> road or
> > other, built around the 559 wheel. All the better if it is a
> dedicated
> > road fixed gear. I also demand that Rivendell produce a top
> quality
> > 559 28 mm tire for road use. I promise to buy at least $500
> worth of
> > them.
>
>
>
> But Beth asked for reasons, not demands.
>
>
> *My* demands *are* reasons.
You mean, you'll hold your breath until you turn blue if they don't?
Yeah, that's a persuasive reason.
Steve Palincsar
> But such a tire would have 5000 times the market that a 650B tire
> has. There may be fewer than 1000 650B wheeled bikes in the US (I'd
> say it's quite likely but I've got no proof). 650B is a very, very
> minor player in the market which is ruled by 700C and 559 (not in
> that order). A good 559 would have a much larger potential market by
> several orders of magnitude.
Two questions you have to ask yourself:
1. Would you pay $60 for a high end 559 tire?
2. Would you put up $120 to buy a pair of as-yet nonexistent high end
559 tires in order to make possible the development of the new tire?
I'm guessing the answer is "no" to both.
JoelMatthews
weeks. I plan to use for commuting, city riding, and light to middle
distance touring.
Tires will be Big Apples, maybe Kojak if I don't take it out of town
as often as planned (I have a Bruce Gordon for that as well), I bought
a pair of Extremes for the builder to use as for the size reference
with Berthoud fenders. With Extremes I could take it just about
anywhere most anyone would want to ride on a bike that has no
springs.
Of course I have to say I am in line for a 650b custom as well. I
already have a few pairs of Hetres and some Pari-Motos on order for
that bike.
On Jan 7, 6:19 pm, beth h <periwinkle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
James Warren
And I'm 6'3.5", and usually ride 64 cm 700C bikes. This bike is 59 cm, but no problem.
-Jim W.
beth h
I must admit I'm surprised at the number of TALL guys who like 559. Of
course it's a good solution for folks like me. I'm 5' 7" (in danger of
becoming 5' 6" as I age! Yikes!) with long limbs and a short torso,
and generally require a square frame to ride 700c wheels. Two years
ago I came into an All-Rounder frame that technically should be "too
small" for me, but actually fits fine because the top tube is PERFECT.
But really tall guys who can easily fit a 700c touring frame
expressing affection for their 559 bikes, well that says something.
Thanks, fellas. --Beth
p.s. Yes, I'm aware that the LHT now works with 26" in every size. But
the 1 1/8" threadless headset is a non-starter for a bike that I wish
I could I build as a poor gal's Atlantis. So I will wait and see what
The New Atlantis (I assume there will be one, right? When the Japanese-
made Atlanti run out? Right?) looks like.
EricP
1. Already do. Schwalbe Marathon Supremes are more than that. Retail
is $70. And good studded tires are also in the $60 range. And I
happen to think the Nokian and Schwalbe studded tires are "high
end".<grin>
2. Yes with a caveat - it has to last more than 1000 miles. It's one
reason I never have and never will buy a Grand Bois tire. With my
body weight of 230, 1k appears to be a best case scenario for
durability. At least with the road conditions in Minnesota.
Anyway, a skinny (to me), decent 559 tire shouldn't be that difficult
or expensive. A 1.25 inch wide Pasela would probably fill the bill
for many folks. And Panaracer lists those on the website.
Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN
> I'm guessing the answer is "no" to both. �
Angus
I'm 6'0"...not as tall as some 559 lovers. Most of my bikes (64cm)
have 700c wheels, but my All-Rounder is 559 and it is great. Good
strong wheels, lots of "large" tires available, it's been "the bike"
for touring and commuting.
I've never felt the need to go to 650b.
When I pack my All-Rounder into a travel case, the 559 wheels make
this much easier.
Angus
Steve Palincsar
>
> 2. Yes with a caveat - it has to last more than 1000 miles. It's one
> reason I never have and never will buy a Grand Bois tire. With my
> body weight of 230, 1k appears to be a best case scenario for
> durability. At least with the road conditions in Minnesota.
The Hetres last a lot longer than 1,000 miles. I've not heard anybody
claim such low mileage for them.
The Grand Bois Cypres 700x30s, outlast 1,000 miles too, come to that.
230's not that far from my experience: last spring I was 220, and that's
when I got over 2,000 mi on my Cypres. But then, I don't ride in
Minnesota.
Steve Palincsar
> I feel better. Less lonely.
>
> I must admit I'm surprised at the number of TALL guys who like 559.
I am, too. I'm surprised Grant would even consider them. After all, if
he balked at 650B in sizes greater than 62 -- now 55 or thereabouts --
because he thought the wheels looked too small, what then would be the
threshold for the still smaller 559? 52cm? 50?
Personally, I think that's all nonsense. If you want to see a /real/
small wheel, look here:
http://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/models/AMGT.html
> Of
> course it's a good solution for folks like me. I'm 5' 7" (in danger of
> becoming 5' 6" as I age! Yikes!) with long limbs and a short torso,
> and generally require a square frame to ride 700c wheels. Two years
> ago I came into an All-Rounder frame that technically should be "too
> small" for me, but actually fits fine because the top tube is PERFECT.
> But really tall guys who can easily fit a 700c touring frame
> expressing affection for their 559 bikes, well that says something.
>
> Thanks, fellas. --Beth
>
> p.s. Yes, I'm aware that the LHT now works with 26" in every size. But
> the 1 1/8" threadless headset is a non-starter for a bike that
Why? I would have thought you'd be all over that. It's the most common
headset now. Even its detractors admit it's plenty durable and field
serviceable without special tools.
> I wish
> I could I build as a poor gal's Atlantis.
That is basically what it is, isn't it? I haven't studied the geometry
closely, but I keep hearing it's a virtual copy of the Atlantis.
PATRICK MOORE
ked for reasons, not demands.You mean, you'll hold your breath until you turn blue if they don't?
>
>
> *My* demands *are* reasons.
Yeah, that's a persuasive reason.
I'm half Filipino. When I hold my breath I turn yellow.
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PATRICK MOORE
Still thinking about 28 mm GBs for the Motobecane ...
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JoelMatthews
If the custom bike gods favor me, by the end of the year I will have a
700 heavy duty touring bike, a 559 city - light touring, and a 650b
rando style bike. The 700 and 650 will both be kitted with 40 spoke
rims, Maxi-Cars front and rear on the 700, Maxi-Car rear, Son front on
the 650. The 559 will have 36 spoke rims, but will be disc which
ideally build up stronger. I use Schwalbes on the 700, will use
Schwalbes on the 559 and Grand Bois on the 650.
I am just under 6' and 165 pounds. I carry more than I ought to when
touring though.
Unless I am run over by a truck this touring season, when the tire
debates start next winter I should have a pretty decent set of
anecdotal arguments. Until then ...
> > rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com<rbw-owners-bunch%2Bunsubscribe...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
> (505) 227-0523- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Steve Palincsar
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:08 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com>
> wrote:
> ked for reasons, not demands.
> >
> >
> > *My* demands *are* reasons.
>
>
>
> You mean, you'll hold your breath until you turn blue if they
> don't?
> Yeah, that's a persuasive reason.
>
> I'm half Filipino. When I hold my breath I turn yellow.
ROTFL
EricP
Two flats on basically new Schwalbe Big Apples. The second one was
close enough that rode 10 miles on the rim. This was on the Atlantis
(Riv-related content). Otherwise, this thread is going pretty far
afield from the group.
Also, I just find it pretty tough to patch tires in the cold (i.e.,
below freezing).
Probably am just more picky about tires getting flats than most.
Eric Platt
(who again considers any tire 35mm wide or under to be seriously
skinny)
On Jan 8, 8:25 am, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com<rbw-owners-bunch%2Bunsubscribe...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
PATRICK MOORE
But I look forward to your report.
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Albuquerque, NM
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(505) 227-0523
PATRICK MOORE
I carry spare tubes and save the patching for the comfort of home and garage. But yes, i can appreciate your POV.
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Patrick in VT
> The Hetres last a lot longer than 1,000 miles. I've not heard anybody
> claim such low mileage for them.
>
> The Grand Bois Cypres 700x30s, outlast 1,000 miles too, come to that.
> 230's not that far from my experience: last spring I was 220, and that's
> when I got over 2,000 mi on my Cypres. But then, I don't ride in
> Minnesota.
I'll echo what Steve says. but note that I weigh 155-160lbs. folks
that weigh considerably more than me might have different results.
Tim McNamara
I wouldn't pay $60 for a 700C or 650B or 27" tire either. Bike tires
last less than a year on the rear wheel and are basically a
disposable commodity. I'll pay up to $25 for a bike tire and even
that seems like robbery for such a short service life. I'd pay $60
for a tire for my car but I expect 5-6 years/60,000 miles of service
and no flats from that. The Grand Bois tires hold no attraction for
me: too expensive, too fragile, don't last long enough. My
princesses aren't sensitive enough for those peas.
To answer Steve's question as to whether I'd pay $120 for a
nonexistant tire to make up the minimum to get one made: nope. I
wouldn't do that for a 700C or 650B or 27" tire either.
I've got the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 and at 100 psi it's the best
26" tire I've ridden. I feel no need for a "better" tire. Having
said that, however, I stand by the gist of my original comment before
Steve diverted it off in an odd direction: the market for 559s is
several orders of magnitude larger than the market for 650B tires. If
someone was looking for a high performance tire to market, it makes
far more sense to do that in the 559 space than the 650B space.
There's just more people to sell it to.
BTW, sorry about munging the subject. I don't know if it's the
server or my mail application that inserts a [RBW] into the subject
lines and I try to remove them when responding; I obviously mangled
this one.
beth h
>Why? I would have thought you'd be all over that. It's the most common
headset now. Even its detractors admit it's plenty durable and field
serviceable without special tools.
From a shop standpoint it's highly convenient, yes. It certainly sped
along my Big Dummy transition (when I upgraded the frame for my
Xtracycle last spring, I used an FSA "Pig", a super-beefy threadless
headset).
But for my regular bikes I simply prefer the shape, polish and length
choices of a 1" quill stem.
>> I wish... I could I build as a poor gal's Atlantis...
>That is basically what it is, isn't it? I haven't studied the geometry
closely, but I keep hearing it's a virtual copy of the Atlantis.
Not quite exactly virtual. In the smaller sizes (56 and below), the
Atlantis comes with a slightly longer top tube than the LHT, a
difference that generally doesn't matter to most guys but can matter
to many women. (I compared the spec sheets between the Atlantis and
the LHT to get that info; both are available online at their
respective web sites). The difference is small, less than 1 cm in most
cases, but for the short-waisted among us having the ability to select
a 40 to 60 cm length stem and still have the desired aesthetic is a
nice thing. Plus, I still don't care for the selection of short,
uplifted threadless stems that would solve some of the reach issues I
and other women (and a few short-waisted men) face.
(In my next life I wanna be six feet tall.)
Beth
JoelMatthews
> of course my wheels have no dish. My brother, 200+ with laptop on back, used
> to bunnyhop the 28 spoke Mavic wheels on his (multispeed, read wheel dished)
> XO2 with no problem. I carry 45 lb loads on a 32 hole 622 rim and 30+ lbs on
> my 32 spoke rear 559 skinny Sun wheel. 170, myself.
Likely so, but I like muito (Portuguese for much) spoked wheels.
Also, here in Chicago killer pot holes can form in a micro-second.
Best to be prepared.
cyclotourist
When I pack my All-Rounder into a travel case, the 559 wheels make
this much easier.
Angus
Late to the conversation. I know Patrick wants a 559X28mm tire, but I'd love to see a good 559X40-ish tire. Similar to the Hetre and/or Pari-Moto. That could get more people on the size.
Patrick, if Terry or the other women specific designs got together and ordered a 559X28 sized go-fast, I think there would be a critical mass needed to get it going. For right now, they seem to like the 650C size for the smaller sizes. Talk about a tire with limitations! There is nothing good (relative) in that size. It would make sense for them to get their production down to one size as well. They could use 559 on their mtn bike as well as road bike offerings.
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA
"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym." ~Bill Nye, scientist guy
cyclotourist
Unless I am run over by a truck this touring season, when the tire
debates start next winter I should have a pretty decent set of
anecdotal arguments. Until then ...
--
kps
>
> Am I the only one on this list who really, deeply cares about the
> future of 559-wheeled bikes? If anyone else out there loves 559 like I
> do, write in and say why,
i have a 559-wheeled Sycip "Java Boy", and it wasn't really by design,
rather by default.
back when Bridgestone was selling X0-1s for blow-out prices, i snagged
an orange (and too small,
i'm afraid) X0-1. when i finally decided to let go of the frame (it's
being used daily by a commuter
in Seattle), i went to my then LBS to order a 'replacement' frame for
the 'leftover'
bits of my XO-1. the shop ended up ordering for me a 26" wheeled
version of the Java Boy, and though i
didn't realize it at the time, it's something of an Atlantis-style
bike.
it's a 56 with a 58.2 top tube and i run Vredestein 1.3 tires on it
and albatross bars.
it uses cantilevers, has a front and back rack and fenders. i suppose
i could do loaded touring with.
when i ride it to work, one of my staffers calls it the station
wagon. he means that in the best sense. <G>
if anyone cares too see it, it's listed on my flickr page (m6hm is my
name).
i have replaced the tires AND the fenders since taking that photo.
still using the same style fenders, but they're slimmer.
they're STILL not right, though, and i would like to get some fenders
that fit (or at least figure out how to do make these fit better).
-kim
rswa...@me.com
I don't track mileage closely, but I've got close to 2000 miles on a
pair of Grand Bois Cypres tires (that I bought used) and they've got
plenty of miles left in them.
My Hetres made it almost 4000 miles before retirement.
For some of those miles I weighed 200lbs+.
Ryan