Suntour is back & says it's keeping it real w/ old skool ideology

[Brian Hanson]

Forwarding from the Rando list. Interesting from the many Rivs with Suntour components...

Brian Hanson

Seattle, Wa

Begin forwarded message:

From: Jenny Oh Hatfield <plat...@gmail.com>
Date: April 12, 2013, 9:36:27 AM HST
To: ran...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Randon] Suntour is back & says it's keeping it real w/ old skool ideology

"Junzo feels the time is right to re-enter the bicycle component business.  As he puts it “the market is too race-centric;  carbon fiber, electric shifting, full suspension, 11 speed, doesn’t really enhance the enjoyment of cycling.  In the 1970’s and 80’s we cycled to be closer to nature, for the environment, for our health, for the simple beauty of cycling.”  For these reasons SunXCD will focus on touring and randonneuring components which were the focus of SunTour during its heyday."

Read more here.

Cheers,

Jenny

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "randon" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to randon+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ran...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[Matthew J]

Welcome development especially so if quality approaches that of its parent. If they bring back the Winner Pro freewheel I would take special note. Wonderifthese are made inJapan or sub-contracted out.

[hobie]

Looks the same as some Velo Orange and Compass Bike components.

[Matt Beebe]

Definitely cool news.    Their philosophy bodes well for the kinds of components they will make, i.e. "we cycled to be closer to nature, for the environment, for our health... ”    The large flange hubs look nice, and it's cool that they have a photo of the Hunqapillar on the "Homebase" page  :) 

On Saturday, April 13, 2013 12:39:55 AM UTC-4, stonehog wrote:

[PATRICK MOORE]

“the market is too race-centric;  carbon fiber, electric shifting, full suspension, 11 speed, doesn’t really enhance the enjoyment of cycling.”

Amen to that. I don't sneer at racing bikes -- some of the bikes I'd love to own are old road and track bikes from before the '80s, and I praise the powers for clipless pedals and Flite saddles -- but the current technology is just a huge insulation between the machine and the fun of riding, at least for my own taste. (I am having fun with 7 speed indexed dt shifting on the Ram -- so exotic!)

But drivetrains so complex that they require computerized shifting, 14 lb bikes that break if they fall over and hit something: I don't sneer at carbon fiber or multispeed drivetrains in themselves, but only at the extremes they've been pushed to all for -- this is what I believe, but I'm open to refutation -- marketing purposes. Evan a mainstream backlash was inevitable and has been growing for the better part of a decade.

I certainly don't agree with everything in "Just Ride" but I'm generally on the same side of the fence.

[Ron Mc]

I like

I was really happy to get this used TA Pro5 already with my half-steps and escape (47-42-26) on ebay for $130.  But if you look at what Bolder is asking for NOS, this should be a no-brainer market for Suntour.  

I'm in.  

[Jan Heine]

On Saturday, April 13, 2013 5:37:03 AM UTC-7, Matthew J wrote:

Welcome development especially so if quality approaches that of its parent.  If they bring back the Winner Pro freewheel I would take special note.  Wonderifthese are made inJapan or sub-contracted out.

Most of the classic Japanese names no longer have any factories. The old tooling is long-gone. None of the skilled workers remain. For example, Dia-Compe is little more than a warehouse in Taiwan. The new SunXCD parts are sub-contracted out, mostly to Taiwan, it appears. It's great that some of the old names are involved, but it remains to be seen what they can achieve. (Remember that Mr. Kawai is in his 90s.)

There are small shops in Japan that never did close down, like Nitto and Honjo. They still make their own products the old way.

Regarding freewheels, Compass Bicycles has looked into bringing back true high-quality freewheels, but it's very difficult. First, there isn't anybody with the know-how any longer of how to make these, and second, freewheels have huge economies of scale. There are many different small parts, which means huge tooling costs. The actual production costs once you have the tooling are very small. So if you sell 100,000 freewheels a year, you can offer them at a decent price. But if you sell 1000, the price goes up tremendously.

Jan Heine
Compass Bicycles Ltd.
http://www.compasscycle.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

[RJM]

I love the look of those hubs.

Nice hunqapillar in the photos on that page. Really nice.

On Friday, April 12, 2013 11:39:55 PM UTC-5, stonehog wrote:

[RJM]

Understandable.

 

 

 

I still think there is a market for quality 5 - 7 speed friction shifting stuff. I know I would buy a couple of freewheels since I have two wheelsets with Phil freewheel hubs.

[Mike Schiller]

Very good to have another player in the game. I like more choices.  I'm not surprised that these are made in Taiwan, that seems like the center of the bike component industry today. Many of the Grand Bois products are made there including hubs. 

I think it's a smart move to stay with standard cassette hub splines too. 

I was/am a long time Suntour devotee and still have a good collection of parts. I'll certainly consider their products.

~mike

[Ron Mc]

one day we'll look back and Taiwan-made components will be the good old days

[Jan Heine]

Taiwan, like many places, has a wide variety of manufacturers. Some produce wonderful quality, others focus more on price. You need to make parts where the knowledge and machinery exists to make those parts. For example, I cannot think of a single forged square-taper crank that has been made in the U.S., ever. So we knew that unless we wanted to build an entire new industry, we couldn't have our new René Herse cranks made here.

Our engineer spent months visiting every factory in Taiwan to get an impression of what they were capable of doing, before choosing our current supplier of the raw forgings. They also make parts for Ducati motorcycles and other high-end brands. Of course, they are more expensive than others, but to us, the quality is worth it.

Jan Heine
Compass Bicycles Ltd.
http://www.compasscycle.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

[Mike]

On Saturday, April 13, 2013 8:30:58 AM UTC-7, RJM wrote:

Understandable.

 I still think there is a market for quality 5 - 7 speed friction shifting stuff. I know I would buy a couple of freewheels since I have two wheelsets with Phil freewheel hubs.

 

Agreed. Would love to see a quality dependeble freewheels in 5 or 6 speeds.

 

--mike

[Joe Bernard]

If it's spring, it must be time for the annual "Suntour is coming back as SunXCD" announcement. I wish them well, but it seems like they've been talking about this for a long time.

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[rperks]

The hubs and some other bits are being brought to our shores through Merry Sales, they are real, and I have held them.  The finish is not super fancy, bit not bad.  I am looking forward to trying one out.

Rob

Ventura, Ca

[rperks]

A pretty good idea of the finish on the hubs:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/therubbishbin/8514301374/

Rob

[Matthew J]

Kind of afraid this would be the case, Jan.  I have a private horde of 7 Suntour Winner Pros.  Fortunately Winner Pro were so well made, and now, thanks to a tip from Patrick, I found someone who is much more adept than I rebuilding freewheels, mine should outlive me. 

On Saturday, April 13, 2013 10:17:47 AM UTC-5, Jan Heine wrote:

[hsmitham]

Rob,

That's a pretty good looking finish. 

As he puts it “the market is too race-centric;  carbon fiber, electric shifting, full suspension, 11 speed, doesn’t really enhance the enjoyment of cycling.  In the 1970’s and 80’s we cycled to be closer to nature, for the environment, for our health, for the simple beauty of cycling.” 

So Suntour see's the niche market and figures to re-enter good thing many of you persevered on the fringe. I second the notion more choices are good and the stated philosophy of getting out in nature is a valued concept. I for one went from Mountain biking to road and recently discovered the wide open freedom of mixed terrain. If a company makes good quality reasonably priced products that allow me to ride with infrequent breakdowns Hallelujah.

Hugh

Sunland, CA

[Philip Williamson]

The Suntour "special short cassette" looks very promising. 120mm OLD, so with a derailler adapter claw, clamp-on shifter, and clamp-on cable stop, you could five-speederize your Rivendell customs... If the shifter was on your seatstay, you'd keep the clean lines, and be able to re-fix the bike in about three minutes...
http://www.biketinker.com/2011/projects/s3x-quickbeam-on-the-road/

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[Lee Legrand]

The gear on the seatpost seams like an awkward position to place a gear.  If it had any advantage, it would be on the type of bicycling that did not require you to shift to much. I would think in riding, you would want a gear somewhere near the riding position that you are in.  Having it at the seat post requires you to get out of that position to somewhat and that your hands can get down their besides the seatpost to rotate the lever.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US.

[Lee Legrand]

It would be nice if they brought back the SunTour S-1 rear derailleur.   This derailleur would be great for those folks who like to tour or do randonneurring.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US.

[Philip Williamson]

Oh yes, a seat post or seatstay mounted shifter is awkward. You get the hang of it, but the only reasonable(?) use case is for a longtime fixed gear rider who rarely shifts, wants a simple option for removing all the gears, and would like to keep the clutter of shifters, cables and gears out of sight for aesthetic reasons or out of shame. The upside is that you can pull the wheel, remove the shifter, and hang the whole shifty mess up in the shed. Slot in a fixed wheel, and you're off again.
I've only done it with an IGH S3X, but am imagining a similar derailleur setup, mostly for fun.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Y'know what I'd love to see? 

Non-ramped rear sprockets.  Just like on the old freewheels we used to get, but set on a carrier so they would fit on current freehubs.  Steel?  Sure, if that is easier, but aluminum is fine if the teeth were longer.  8 sprockets or even 9, so the size would be right. 

Really, I'm talking about the KlunkyShift™ cassette I mentioned in the AHH drivetrain thread.  If we're using a manual shifting setup, there's no reason why we need index-compatible sprockets.  But, I'm not real keen on going back to the narrow bearing spacing from the freewheel days.  (Bent waaay too many axles back then.) 

Ok... clearly I'm an outlier. 

- Jim / cyclofiend.com

[Jan Heine]

The bearings spacing on most cassette hubs is no different from that of a freewheel hub. With the exception of Shimano and Mavic and a few small makers, all freehubs have the hub bearings under the flanges, more or less. As long as the axle is properly designed, that is not a problem.

The problem with most freewheel hubs were the thin axles. They were designed for 4-speed and 115 mm spacing. With that short overhang, no problem. Then they added another 5 mm on the drive-side for 5-speed, and it was getting marginal. Then they added another 6 mm to use 6-speed, and the design no longer worked. They now had more than twice the lever as before, yet kept the diameter of the axle the same. It's surprising that it worked as well as it did!

Adding grooves in the axle on both sides made the problem worse. (Who needs to adjust their hub on both sides? Maxi put the grooves on the non-drive side only, so you adjusted only that side.)

There are plenty of freewheel hubs that don't break axles. Don't conclude from a poor execution that the entire concept is flawed. Cassette hubs have their own design problems. The biggest one is that the bearings under the cassette have to be relatively small.

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
http://www.bikequarterly.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sat, 2013-04-13 at 17:32 -0700, Matthew J wrote:
> Kind of afraid this would be the case, Jan. I have a private horde of
> 7 Suntour Winner Pros. Fortunately Winner Pro were so well made, and
> now, thanks to a tip from Patrick, I found someone who is much more
> adept than I rebuilding freewheels, mine should outlive me.

But where do you get the replacement sprockets?

[Lee Legrand]

Is Sun XCD a different company than SR SUNTOUR?
https://stan-pun.squarespace.com/about/
http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/SID=si2a13400691526f93776ec0bdf6d126/index.php

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US.

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Thanks for bringing up those points, Jan - I'm not specifically against freewheels.  My experience was that I regularly bent axles on my old mtb which had a freewheel and never had that problem with any freehubs.  My recollection was that the mtb (which was a six speed 1983 drivetrain) had narrower cones than my XT and DuraAce freehubs.  But again, no data to back that up.

And I guess the point I was really trying to make stemmed from your comment about the loss of tooling, expertise and the necessary economies of scale involved in making a quality freewheel today.  Since most of the bicycle market probably is less likely to support it, it seems freewheel production isn't likely to increase.  But since there are plenty of freehubs around, why not continue to let them make the ratchety bits and focus on making something that is not designed to shift in a crosswind.  Okay, that's overstating it, but it seems to me that creating a longer-toothed cassette of longer-wearing material might be a simpler option.

I just recall walking into the old shops and looking at the cog board in the back.  It seems like it should be comparatively easy to come up with a similar solution.  Though I'm ignorant of any constraints which are in place for makers having to license the interface spline from Shimano. 

- Jim / cyclofiend.com

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2013-04-15 at 22:06 -0700, Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
> Thanks for bringing up those points, Jan - I'm not specifically
> against freewheels. My experience was that I regularly bent axles on
> my old mtb which had a freewheel and never had that problem with any
> freehubs. My recollection was that the mtb (which was a six speed
> 1983 drivetrain) had narrower cones than my XT and DuraAce freehubs.
> But again, no data to back that up.

That's not the only, or even the worst, problem with freewheels. By
design, pedaling tightens a freewheel. On a tandem or on a bike ridden
by a very strong rider, they get screwed on so tight it's difficult if
not outright impossible to remove them. What's more, the tremendous
force needed (we're talking about six foot cheater bars here, no
exaggeration) is channeled through a couple of small notches or a
handful of splines, which readily strip out.

>
> And I guess the point I was really trying to make stemmed from your
> comment about the loss of tooling, expertise and the necessary
> economies of scale involved in making a quality freewheel today.
> Since most of the bicycle market probably is less likely to support
> it, it seems freewheel production isn't likely to increase. But since
> there are plenty of freehubs around, why not continue to let them make
> the ratchety bits and focus on making something that is not designed
> to shift in a crosswind. Okay, that's overstating it, but it seems to
> me that creating a longer-toothed cassette of longer-wearing material
> might be a simpler option.
>
> I just recall walking into the old shops and looking at the cog board
> in the back. It seems like it should be comparatively easy to come up
> with a similar solution.

That assumes there's actually a market for straight-cut sprockets. Even
back in the 1970s they were actively searching for tooth profiles that
made shifting easier. Remember Shimano's wavy teeth? I doubt the total
market for such cassettes in this country would even be as large as the
readership of this google group.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Steve P nails it. Many of these old-skool design ideas might fill a niche within a niche within a niche. Given the previously mentioned issues with freewheels, and not many upsides except low cost, the people still using them are devoted antiquarians, those who spec dept store bikes, and those of us in the business of fixing 1970s bike boom bikes. It's hard to see a new $50+ freewheel being a hit with any of those groups. And freewheel connoisseurs are not wearing out freewheels fast enough to be much of a target market. Obviously Shimano and the smaller companies who make FWs abandoned the high-end segment of that market years ago.

[Garth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunTour

[Cyclofiend Jim]

On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:56:59 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

That assumes there's actually a market for straight-cut sprockets.  Even
back in the 1970s they were actively searching for tooth profiles that
made shifting easier.  Remember Shimano's wavy teeth?  I doubt the total
market for such cassettes in this country would even be as large as the
readership of this google group.

:^)

Quite possiblly, Steve...

My thoughts were really in the context of the SunXCD comments about a less-race oriented direction combined with the regular resurfacing of the topic of ghost shifting and tendency of current cassette designs to not stay put if you choose to manually shift.  It seemed like it would be  a bit cheaper and therefore more possible for them to come up with a long-lasting cassette of robust sprockets than hope they would tool up for freewheels.

- Jim / cyclofiend.com

[RJM]

I would be alright with some nice choices in 7 speed cassettes and chains.

 

I have been using the IRD freewheels on my Rivy hubs without much to complain about.

[PATRICK MOORE]

From my own experience with 5 thru 10 shifting, all manual (didn't index after circa 1993 or 4 until I got the 7 sp DA for the Ram) I would say that the problems below come solely from excessively narrow spacing -- it, too many cogs -- and even that, perhaps, due to using the wrong levers (levers with smaller barrels seem to work better with tighter squeezed cogs) or perhaps, often, simply to lack of skill. While I can certainly see the benefit to 9 or even 10 speed spacing in certain very idiosyncratic cases, I think that a normal 8 speed Hyperglide cassette will last for many miles and shifter perfectly with most friction levers as long as you take the trouble to adjust things properly -- notably your shifter mounting screws -- and take the trouble to learn the technique.

I think, therefore, that if Shimano and others simply brought back 8 speed systems with friction options, we'd be where we need to be in respect of drivetrains. No? I agree that new systems are not, from the standpoint of both use and money, the best solution.

That said, I am surprised how well the low end Shimano 9 speed systems on cheap mountain bikes that have been neglected for years still shift very well without need for adjustment.

On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Cyclofiend Jim <cyclo...@earthlink.net> wrote:.. 

My thoughts were really in the context of the SunXCD comments about a less-race oriented direction combined with the regular resurfacing of the topic of ghost shifting and tendency of current cassette designs to not stay put if you choose to manually shift.  

--

http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

patric...@resumespecialties.com
__________________________________________________________________________

[clayton]

Here is what I would like to see them make.  Cassette hub, 7 or 8 speed WIDE ratio cassette, Bomb proof (literally) bar end index shifters with friction option or disc brake levers (maybe brifters, crash proof though, and sealed against crashing in a pumice dust and sand pile, don't ask) and all wrapped up in a nice silver polish or black matte anodization with engraving. All built for the long haul and severe service. 

I am pretty much done with shimano. I bought their new Deore Xt dynasys stuff (10 speed) and discovered it won't work with 10 speed bar end shifters that no longer have a friction option). I replaced my drop bars with Sycip swept bars and put on the Dynasys mountain bike shifters. I promptly broke the plastic casing and bent the steel guts when I tried to rotate the shifter on the bar which wasn't even that tight. My son uses X0 stuff and it seems to be much better made. Next time......Sorry Shimano, I've been loyal, but Suntour or Sram is getting my money next time.

On Friday, April 12, 2013 9:39:55 PM UTC-7, stonehog wrote:

Forwarding from the Rando list. Interesting from the many Rivs with Suntour components...

Brian Hanson

Seattle, Wa

Begin forwarded message:

From: Jenny Oh Hatfield <plat...@gmail.com>
Date: April 12, 2013, 9:36:27 AM HST
To: ran...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Randon] Suntour is back & says it's keeping it real w/ old skool ideology

"Junzo feels the time is right to re-enter the bicycle component business.  As he puts it “the market is too race-centric;  carbon fiber, electric shifting, full suspension, 11 speed, doesn’t really enhance the enjoyment of cycling.  In the 1970’s and 80’s we cycled to be closer to nature, for the environment, for our health, for the simple beauty of cycling.”  For these reasons SunXCD will focus on touring and randonneuring components which were the focus of SunTour during its heyday."

Read more here.

Cheers,

Jenny

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "randon" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to randon+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to ran...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.

[Matthew J]

> That's not the only, or even the worst, problem with freewheels.  By
design, pedaling tightens a freewheel.  On a tandem or on a bike ridden
by a very strong rider, they get screwed on so tight it's difficult if
not outright impossible to remove them.  What's more, the tremendous
force needed (we're talking about six foot cheater bars here, no
exaggeration) is channeled through a couple of small notches or a
handful of splines, which readily strip out.

Freewheel sticking has not been a problem for me.  But I make a point to remove the freewheel and lubricate it frequently.

 

BMXers - and bike polo players who put a lot of pressure on all their bike parts more often than not use White Industries hubs.

 

I don't have anything against cassettes per se - and in fact just had a wheel made with a single speed Chris King and the Jeff Jones modified 6 speed cassette - but my city and tour bikes have MaxiCar hubs and my road bike vintage Campy hubs modified by Peter Weigle.  I'm supposed to leave those on the shelf because of stories from people in the day who probably failed to follow basic maintenance procedures?

 

Finally - no problem with finding spare sprockets I'll be dead before I wear out all my horde.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 10:11 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
>
> I think, therefore, that if Shimano and others simply brought back 8
> speed systems with friction options, we'd be where we need to be in
> respect of drivetrains. No? I agree that new systems are not, from the
> standpoint of both use and money, the best solution.

I tried Sun Tour Sprint friction shifters with 8 speed Hyperglide.
Didn't work well at all: far too much ghost shifting. I moved the
shifters to a new bike with 7 speed Hyperglide and found it worked very
well.

Also: 8 speed never had a range of gearings that began with 13. Other
than for juniors, they began with 11 or 12. Nowadays just about all you
can get in 8 begins with 11. Except on my 17" wheeled Moulton, I have
no use whatever for 11 tooth sprockets, and I would need a 44 tooth
large chain ring to get the high gear I like with a 12 tooth sprocket.
Summary: except for tandems, for me 8 speed gearing range is crap.

Seven, on the other hand, had several nice gear sets including 13-30 and
13-34. Seven also has the 14-32, which is surprisingly perfect on a
650B bike with a 39/53 double. What's more, all the 7 speed gear ranges
are still currently available, albeit not in the nice shiny versions
they once used to have, whereas just about all that's left of 8 is, as I
said, crap.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 09:01 -0700, RJM wrote:
> I would be alright with some nice choices in 7 speed cassettes and
> chains.

Then you must be alright right now, because there ARE plenty of nice
choices in 7 speed cassettes, and also some nice "7/8 speed" chains for
them. Note that the chains are all now called "7/8", there hasn't been
a "7 only" chain in something like 20 years.

Cassettes: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html#7 unfortunately,
now only black HG-50, but at least the ratios are all still there.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I've used both 15 and 16 t outer cogs by Miche. 7 speed DA on the Ram starts with 14. 16 is the largest, but you can fudge anything as an outer if you are willing to compromise on cassette position and # of cogs. My 14 t "outer" is a standard "inner".

Friction shifting 9 on the Fargo now, with Silver BES -- no problem, even with out-of-sync ramps. But I daresay I shift less than many, and am less concerned with precision and that, as they always say, YMMAVCWV.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Philip Williamson]

Would it work to put a bunch of singlespeed sprockets onto a cassette? Only 13 to 22t with Surly... http://surlybikes.com/parts/cassette_cog

That could give you a 9 speed corncob with tall teeth, mated to wide-spaced rings, like 24, 34, 44. I'm the last person you should ask about shifting-ease, though. I'm happy using a stick. 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Clayton, you can use your bar end shifters and Dyna-Sys 10sp cassette if you use a Shimano 9sp derailleur.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I like the idea of a wide-range 7sp or 8sp cassette, like 12-36 or something. Pair it with a mountain double crank. I'm thinking of my amazing SRAM 2x10 kits, but with fewer cogs.

On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 11:28:33 AM UTC-5, clayton wrote:

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

The Surly cog "cassette" was discussed at HC clubhouse earlier today. Surly cogs retail for $25+ each...

[Philip Williamson]

Sounds like a 4-speed cassette, then. I bet the Jeff Jones cassette cost about $150, though, and I think XTR cassettes cost so much I blacked out and can't remember the price.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[clayton]

That is exactly what I did. Works great. Thanks Jim.