Why does RavenDB.Database NOT include Raven.Server.exe? - ravendb

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Message from discussion Why does RavenDB.Database NOT include Raven.Server.exe?
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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 00:21:33 +0300
Message-ID: <CALfNUtW2MP3upNM+7U3n6rkif=KSvWS5q+E2zQUjMwLge8c...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RavenDB] Re: Why does RavenDB.Database NOT include Raven.Server.exe?
From: Itamar Syn-Hershko <ita...@hibernatingrhinos.com>
To: ravendb@googlegroups.com
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Chris, assuming it would be shipped there, where would you want it to be
and how would you use it?

Long story short - this package is aimed at development, and for deployment
as website (which you asked for).

We are going to look for ways to ease the deployment/update stories, but
they ought to be consistent and to make sense. R

Oren doesn't know it yet, but I'm going to try and promote
NAppUpdate<https://github.com/synhershko/NAppUpdate>for doing server
updates when running from console or as a service (the EXE
file). Take a look at it and let me know if that'd be what you're after.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Chris Marisic <ch...@marisic.com> wrote:

> Why shouldn't the server exe be distributed with this package? I did a
> directory diff between the package and the \server folder in the zip file,
> they were equal except it didn't have the .exe nor the dlls for nlog/
> json.net because those are handled as package dependencies.
>
> I went to install RavenDB.Database because I wanted to evaluate the
> implications of targeting the .exe for usage in development as opposed to
> IIS hosted in development (one reason being that, I still don't have a
> server package yet except for the hidden one that was created which seems
> like too much of  a brittle solution to consider using).
>
> So the improvements to the nuget experience while nice didn't really add
> anything that wasn't already there. I still have a bad experience dealing
> with migrating forward in RavenDB, and I'm the kind of user that is
> responsible for maintaining and deploying sweeping changes along with the
> authority to decide what softwares I'm going to purchase for myself and for
> my team. I'm not the user you want things to be difficult for because if I
> find things needlessly difficult and I've been one of the longest running
> RavenDB users what do you think users who in situations similar to me are
> going to see? They're going to see a tool that will make their lives more
> difficult because of how much manual package management is still involved
> for maintaining the servers.
>
> RavenDB has an incredible story for development. It has a poor story for
> deployment and maintenance. The people who are responsible for deployment
> and maintenance are generally going to be the users who have key decision
> authority (or input) in regards to something as major as a database
> platform, these aren't the people you want to feel like they're the ones
> who have the short end of the stick when compared to how awesome using
> RavenDB is.
>
>
> On Monday, April 16, 2012 4:18:07 PM UTC-4, Damian Hickey wrote:
>>
>> The RavenDB.Database package is designed for plug-in developers and as a
>> dependency for RavenDB.Embedded.
>>
>> I agree that Raven.Server.exe should be distributed don't think it should
>> be the tools folder of RavenDB.Database, but as separate RavenDB.Server
>> package. Like how xunit ships it's exe's in the xunit.runners<http://nuget.org/packages/xunit.runners>package.
>>
>> Does OFI (Oren, Fitzchak, Itamar) agree?
>>
>> On Monday, 16 April 2012 18:20:04 UTC+1, Chris Marisic wrote:
>>>
>>> Why does the RavenDB.Database package NOT include Raven.Server.exe?
>>>
>>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Chris, assuming it would be shipped there, where would you=
 want it to be and how would you use it?<div><br></div><div>Long story shor=
t - this package is aimed at development, and for deployment as website (wh=
ich you asked for).</div>
<div><br></div><div>We are going to look for ways to ease the deployment/up=
date stories, but they ought to be consistent and to make sense. R</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Oren doesn&#39;t know it yet, but I&#39;m going to try and=
 promote <a href=3D"https://github.com/synhershko/NAppUpdate">NAppUpdate</a=
> for doing server updates when running from console or as a service (the E=
XE file). Take a look at it and let me know if that&#39;d be what you&#39;r=
e after.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Chris Mari=
sic <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ch...@marisic.com">chris@marisi=
c.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Why shouldn&#39;t the server exe be distributed with this package? I did a =
directory diff between the package and the \server folder in the zip file, =
they were equal except it didn&#39;t have the .exe nor the dlls for nlog/<a=
 href=3D"http://json.net" target=3D"_blank">json.net</a> because those are =
handled as package dependencies.<br>
<br>I went to install RavenDB.Database because I wanted to evaluate the imp=
lications of targeting the .exe for usage in development as opposed to IIS =
hosted in development (one reason being that, I still don&#39;t have a serv=
er package yet except for the hidden one that was created which seems like =
too much of=A0 a brittle solution to consider using).<br>
<br>So the improvements to the nuget experience while nice didn&#39;t reall=
y add anything that wasn&#39;t already there. I still have a bad experience=
 dealing with migrating forward in RavenDB, and I&#39;m the kind of user th=
at is responsible for maintaining and deploying sweeping changes along with=
 the authority to decide what softwares I&#39;m going to purchase for mysel=
f and for my team. I&#39;m not the user you want things to be difficult for=
 because if I find things needlessly difficult and I&#39;ve been one of the=
 longest running RavenDB users what do you think users who in situations si=
milar to me are going to see? They&#39;re going to see a tool that will mak=
e their lives more difficult because of how much manual package management =
is still involved for maintaining the servers.<br>
<br>RavenDB has an incredible story for development. It has a poor story fo=
r deployment and maintenance. The people who are responsible for deployment=
 and maintenance are generally going to be the users who have key decision =
authority (or input) in regards to something as major as a database platfor=
m, these aren&#39;t the people you want to feel like they&#39;re the ones w=
ho have the short end of the stick when compared to how awesome using Raven=
DB is.<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br><br>On Monday, April 16, 2012 4:18:07 PM UTC-4, Damia=
n Hickey wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-l=
eft:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The RavenDB.Database=
 package is designed for plug-in developers and as a dependency for RavenDB=
.Embedded. <br>
<br>I agree that Raven.Server.exe should be distributed don&#39;t think it =
should be the tools folder of RavenDB.Database, but as separate RavenDB.Ser=
ver package. Like how xunit ships it&#39;s exe&#39;s in the<a href=3D"http:=
//nuget.org/packages/xunit.runners" target=3D"_blank"> xunit.runners</a> pa=
ckage.<br>
<br>Does OFI (Oren, Fitzchak, Itamar) agree?<br><br>On Monday, 16 April 201=
2 18:20:04 UTC+1, Chris Marisic  wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">
Why does the RavenDB.Database package NOT include Raven.Server.exe?<br></bl=
ockquote></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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