RavenDB one time payment

[jhovgaard]

Hi,

We are about to buy a license for our upcoming setup. My boss prefers
one time payments, but he also prefers regular updates. The licensing
page says "As long as the subscription is valid, new releases are
included in it automatically.".

Is new release included in the one time payment?

If yes, for how long?

Thanks in advance :)

- Jonas

[racielrod]

Jonas,

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there is any limitation in the
number of updates you can get after you purchase the commercial
license.
The best thing about Raven is its constant evolution and support, I'm
pretty sure only support is limited by your license.

Thanks,
Raciel

[jhovgaard]

Thanks for your reply :)

Oren, can you please confirm?

[jhovgaard]

Bump, I really need this confirmation :-)

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

New updates for one time payments are included for a six months period after the purchase.

A one time payment is not a subscription.

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

Raciel,

I am afraid that this is not correct. For the one time payment, you only get updates for six months after the purchase.

[racielrod]

Ok,

Now I'm confused. My company bought RavenDB, we paid the one time fee.
I thought we were allowed to update our server with new builds from
http://builds.hibernatingrhinos.com/builds/RavenDB as we need.
How is this different from _getting updates_?

Thanks,
Raciel

On Feb 17, 4:55 pm, "Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)" <aye...@ayende.com>
wrote:
> Raciel,
> I am afraid that this is *not* correct. For the one time payment, you only

> get updates for six months after the purchase.
>

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

Raciel,

We need to make a distinction between new builds and new version.

Right now, we aren't really making this distinction. All builds are for the same version (1.0.616, for example).

In the near future, we are going to do a a version bump, (say, for example, 1.2.888). At that point, if you purchased RavenDB in the six months before that release, you would also get this update. However, if you purchased this earlier than that, you won't be able to get the new version and would have to purchase it again (for a reduced upgrade price).

If you are using a subscription, you can just continue to use the software, regardless of what version it is, as long as you have a current subscription.

We are aiming at doing quarterly version bumps, but don't catch me on that.

At some point, we are going to be doing a version bump and move 

[racielrod]

Sounds good and fair, thanks!


On Feb 17, 5:34 pm, "Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)" <aye...@ayende.com>
wrote:
> Raciel,

> We need to make a distinction between new builds and new version.
> Right now, we aren't really making this distinction. All builds are for the
> same version (1.0.616, for example).
>
> In the near future, we are going to do a a version bump, (say, for example,
> 1.2.888). At that point, if you purchased RavenDB in the six months before
> that release, you would also get this update. However, if you purchased
> this earlier than that, you won't be able to get the new version and would
> have to purchase it again (for a reduced upgrade price).
>
> If you are using a subscription, you can just continue to use the software,
> regardless of what version it is, as long as you have a current
> subscription.
>
> We are aiming at doing quarterly version bumps, but don't catch me on that.
>
> At some point, we are going to be doing a version bump and move
>

> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 12:26 AM, racielrod <raciel.rodrig...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ok,
>
> > Now I'm confused. My company bought RavenDB, we paid the one time fee.
> > I thought we were allowed to update our server with new builds from

> >http://builds.hibernatingrhinos.com/builds/RavenDBas we need.

[Hermano Cabral]

Just to clarify one thing: what happens to my RavenDB after the six months? Does it stop working or can I keep using it (with no updates)?

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

It keeps on working!

You won't be able to update, but that is all.

[Justin A]

Ayende, i'm having a look at:  http://ravendb.net/licensing and i'm confused.

For subscription, it says: 25/month or 300/year.

One time; 599.

Then it says, 2 incidents / instance for the first 6 months. 

So I thought that ment: if u buy this 599 license, u can now use 1 instance of RavenDb for your application, for ever. Along with this, if u have 2 serious issues using RavenDb -in the first 6 months from the date of purchase-, u can get some help from the team, for free. After that, u gotta pay extra for help.

As for product updates (eg new builds, etc) .. there's no mention of this .. or any restrictions to new builds .. on this page. 

For the subscription methods, i see that as .. you are paying for a license for that time period. once that time period runs out, u're now running RavenDb without a license and infringing on the agreement. Also, u can get personal help 2x a year, per subscription license. (to me, this means even the 25/month license .. so it's possible u use up both your 2x support incidents in the first month of a month-by-month payment).

--------

I hear what you're saying, in this thread .. so maybe this page is out of date or i just can't read, properly?

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

inline

On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 3:05 AM, Justin A <jus...@adler.com.au> wrote:

Ayende, i'm having a look at:  http://ravendb.net/licensing and i'm confused.

For subscription, it says: 25/month or 300/year.

One time; 599.

Then it says, 2 incidents / instance for the first 6 months. 

So I thought that ment: if u buy this 599 license, u can now use 1 instance of RavenDb for your application, for ever. Along with this, if u have 2 serious issues using RavenDb -in the first 6 months from the date of purchase-, u can get some help from the team, for free. After that, u gotta pay extra for help.

Yes, that is correct. The part that is missing is the issue of versions. You purchase the license for a specific version of RavenDB.

 

As for product updates (eg new builds, etc) .. there's no mention of this .. or any restrictions to new builds .. on this page. 

Make a distinction between builds and versions. A version is something that we so far hadn't changed. But we intend to do so on a regular basis from now on (a predictable release schedule).

Subscriptions makes a mention of being able to get new releases, I am afraid that I assumed that it was obvious that the one time payment do not. And builds vs versions makes this all the more confusing.

I'll make sure to update the site with a better explanation next week.

 

For the subscription methods, i see that as .. you are paying for a license for that time period. once that time period runs out, u're now running RavenDb without a license and infringing on the agreement. 

Also, u can get personal help 2x a year, per subscription license. (to me, this means even the 25/month license .. so it's possible u use up both your 2x support incidents in the first month of a month-by-month payment).

Yes, that is correct.

[Anders]

We also opted for the one time payment with the expectation that we always would be able to use it since you never have mentioned anything other than "builds".

Are we still going to get bugfixes for version 1.0.x when 1.2.x is released? For how long?

So to keep being up to date with "one time payments" we would have to pay 599 * 4 = 2396 per year opposed to 300 per year for subscriptions?

No offense but this seems like a pretty bad deal..

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

Anders,

We will fix big bugs in old versions, yes. For a minimum of 18 months after the last release for that version, but probably up to 3 years in most cases.

With one time fee, just like when you buy Windows or SQL Server or Resharper, the expectation isn't that you buy once and get all updates for ever. With RavenDB, it is the same.

RavenDB 1.0 was released in May 2010. This gives us close to 20 months for the 1.0 release, assuming we release on March.

That isn't a short release cycle by any means. 

But yes, it makes a lot more sense to buy a subscription than pay a one time fee. That is something that we would like you to do, and the pricing structure reflects that.

[Anders]

I understand you completely.

And for version 1 this makes total sense, but Windows and SQL Server does not release new versions 4 times a year (as you were planning).

I think that this information is crucial for the licensing page. We would have gone for the subscription plan if this information was clearer.

However, I'm hoping this will be a non-issue for us since we are probably moving to ravenhq (thanks!) within the next couple of months.

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

Anders,

We will probably tweak some things there to make it more meaningful, but yes, we will make it clear what is going in with relation to the new policies.

[Hermano Cabral]

And what will happen to people who bought RavenDB based on the "old" policy? Everyone will be automatically upgraded to the new licensing model?

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

If they are using a subscription, they just go on with their lives.

If they bought a license in the six months previous to the vNext release, they get grandfathered in.

If they bought a license previous to that, they would need to purchase an upgrade license.

[Hermano Cabral]

I understand the rationale behind the new licensing policy and I agree with you that it make more sense, but,  is this new policy going to be applied to each and every customer who already has a perpetual license or only those who purchase from now on? 

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

> In the near future, we are going to do a a version bump, (say, for example, 1.2.888). At that point, if you purchased RavenDB in the six months before that release, you would also get this update. However, if you purchased this earlier than that, you won't be able to get the new version and would have to purchase it again (for a reduced upgrade price).

[Wyatt Barnett]

This change definitely makes sense but I think it also feels like a
rules change after the deal was done -- reading your page at face
value it appears that the only support that runs out in six months is
per-incident support, there is zero mention of upgrades. We rarely use
support so this was not an issue so we took the perpetual license
option even though the subscription was cheaper for the first 2 years.

On Feb 21, 4:39 pm, "Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)" <aye...@ayende.com>
wrote:

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

Wyatt,

It wasn't our intention to mislead (even by accident), ping me when we put out the next version, we will make it right.

[Wyatt Barnett]

Awesome. You all do rock.

FWIW, I think some sort of big announcement when you go to actual
versions could work for most presuming that six month clock started
when vNext is released. I'd generally think few would have a problem
with that sort of approach.

On Feb 23, 12:26 am, "Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)" <aye...@ayende.com>
wrote:

> Wyatt,
> It wasn't our intention to mislead (even by accident), ping me when we put
> out the next version, we will make it right.
>

[Anders Wåglund]

+1

This seems like a really good way of solving this.

[Hermano Cabral]

+2

It's nice to see a company that cares about it's users.

[Oren Eini (Ayende Rahien)]

We have three major assets. 

1) Our products.

2) Our ability to produce good products.

3) Our reputation.

The third is most precious.