Rear storage for PBP
SoCalRando
large Carradice bag, which gives you weight relatively high on the
bike, and (I'm assuming here since I don't have any experience with
one) a certain amount of sway. Is there a reason rear racks with "Day
Trekker" type panniers aren't (more) popular? Is it just a matter of
tradition or aesthetics, or because it might be a bit heavier/less
aerodynamic? It would seem that such a setup would carry the weight
lower and more securely, and you'd also be able to secure heavier
clothing to the top of the rack.
I'm asking because I'm going to be the "pack mule" for myself and my
GF/fiancee at PBP, and was thinking of running a rear rack with Day
Trekker panniers. At Gold Rush, and on the 600 and 1000K's I've done,
I've just used a Camelbak Blowfish that has an expandable storage area
(I don't mind the weight on my back). But I'm not going to do that if
I'm carrying for two. And I don't mind the extra weight and reduced
aerodynamics of the rack/panniers because we plan on taking our time
at PBP. As is often the case, I'm sure there's something I'm not
thinking of. Thoughts, suggestions?
Thanks in advance.
Jim Swarzman
WMdeR
>It seems like most randos that have rear storage use something like a
> Trekker panniers.
tandem teams do in your neck of the woods?
Here in Colorado, most of the quicker riders on singles use a
camelback and a small wedge pack on their racing bikes. The middle of
the pack tends to carry more stuff, again mostly in wedge packs, often
supplemented with a small handlebar bag and a camelback. A growing
minority use a front-loading (large handlebar bag) solution. A few
add a rear rack and a rack trunk. I don't know of any single bicycle
riders (vs tandem riders) who use panniers on brevets, anyway.
One tandem couple I've seen panniers. One couple uses large
camelbacks supplemented with a wedge pack and a stoker bar bag. There
aren't any traditional randonneuring tandems local to me that come out
for the brevets.
A carefully-chosen wedge pack or saddlebag wins the storage volume/
unit weight battle hands down compared to a rack and panniers or a
rack-top bag (for reasonable randonneuring loads, anyway). Neither
require rear eyelets, which many riders don't have on their machines.
They don't significantly affect the bicycle handling when seated, and,
if well-supported, don't sway much when climbing out of the saddle.
Moving away from your specific question, I prefer a front-loading
solution for randonneuring, as I like to have all my clothing and
spares at hand when moving, cannot stand wearing a backpack when
riding, and a handlebar bag provides a convenient spot for a map and
food. I try to keep the total dry-weight load (spares, food, clothes,
tools, luggage) between three and four pounds for a self-contained
summer 24 hour ride. One only need stop for controls and for personal
needs. The handlebar bag becomes nosebag, wardrobe, and navigation
center, all right in front of you while you ride.
I supplement the large handlebar bag with front low-riders and a bivy
roll on the back when camping.
Best Regards,
Will
William M. deRosset
RUSA 2401
bobby...@bendbroadband.com
SP
Bend, OR
ps - make sure you use some kind of support with your saddlebag: bagman makes good ones.
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David Buzzee
From: "bobby...@bendbroadband.com" <bobby...@bendbroadband.com>
To: SoCalRando <jswa...@yahoo.com>
Cc: randon <ran...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 9:28:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Randon] Rear storage for PBP
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Mike
set-up for bike camping and once for a 200k just for the hell of it
and it seemed to work fine. In fact, I think I'm gonna ride about 200k
today with this set-up but I have no time goals/restrictions for
todays ride and am happy to noodle along.
You might consider this bag
http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/sackville-saddlesack-medium/20-132
ziptied to this rack for further support and to eliminate sway
http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/top-rack-nitto-r14/20-095
Still, truth be told... a lightweight Tubus rack and two Ortlieb front
roller plus probably weigh less.
--mike
Ian Boehm
On 27/01/2011 9:34 AM, SoCalRando wrote:
> I'm asking because I'm going to be the "pack mule" for myself and my
> GF/fiancee at PBP,
Jim allow me to offer the solution that I used in 2007, to wit the
Topeak rack. http://www.topeak.com/products/Racks. Mine is the Explorer
rack without the spring.
and one of its Trunk bags e.g.
http://www.topeak.com/products/Bags
The bag slides on and off the rack and is held in place with a hefty
catch system.
The particular attraction of the system is that, with care, you can keep
your entire PBP world therein. Slide the bag off at the controle, grab
your hyadration system and you can guarantee that you will have to hand
ALL the things you need to attend to and were trying to remember in the
last 20km.
The rack is a lightweight Al affair so not really suited to serious
touring but it is perfect for randonnees. An additional obscure feature
of the rack is that it has a bracket at the rear that will allow you to
mount a Busch and Muller dynamo powered tail light e.g. the Dtoplight.
--
Cheers
__o
_`\<,
...(*)/(*)
Ian Boehm
NickBull
year of using a Bagman, I wondered whether I really needed to carry an
extra pound or whether I'd be happy just hanging the bag from the bag
loops. One experiment was enough, and I've never used the Bagman
again. The Carradice sways a little when I'm standing up and
climbing, but even then it isn't bothersome, and the rest of the time
it isn't noticeable.
Before switching to the Carradice, I used an Arkel Tailrider on either
a Blackburn rack or a Topeak Explorer rack. The difference in
handling is like the difference between a mid-engine Porsche and a
rear-engine VW Squareback. The Carradice is right there with you at
your center of gravity. The rack bag is out there well behind your CG
and is highly noticeable when you are standing to climb -- much more
bothersome than the sway of the Carradice without a rack -- and also
affects cornering negatively. Panniers on a rack are the same, though
their lower position reduces their impact somewhat.
Nick
> > group athttp://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.
Steve Palincsar
> After a year of using a Bagman, I wondered whether I really needed to
> carry an extra pound or whether I'd be happy just hanging the bag from
> the bag loops. One experiment was enough, and I've never used the
> Bagman again.
Same thing happened to me. I'd heard so much about Carradice
thigh-brush I was certain it would drive me crazy. When I finally did
try, on a bike that had a B.17 but no Bagman support, I discovered I
didn't even notice it.
Mark W
Mark W
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Jim Logan
(and sometimes used panniers, including PBP 2007), but I've gone to the
"anti-bag" in recent years, in which I use cargo netting to hold stuff to my
rear rack without a bag. Saves a pound or so.
I found wonderfully light panniers in a French cycling store in advance of
PBP, and they worked fine for me. Were much lighter than they looked. (I
took a pair of Detour panniers over, but the ones I bought in France were
smaller and lighter and right-sized. - Plus the cycling store was nice
enough to fix my shipping damage for me, giving me an hour or two to shop).
If you change weight distribution on your bike, you might notice it at the
beginning, but at least I get used to it quickly. I've never noticed a
bother when I use a single pannier, for example. Depends on your speed, I
guess.
I am about ready to move away from my steel bike with rear rack to my carbon
bike with Camelbak pak. However, I vote light panniers as "not evil". I
used one the first day of Endless Mountains 2009 and survived. :-).
Nick
randon+un...@googlegroups.com.
cheg
the last 8000 km of brevets and permanents and it works pretty well
for me. My brevet bike handles poorly with a handlebar bag and I have
not invested in a new fork to fix that problem. I could switch to a
medium to large seat bag if it was stable enough but this is working
so I don't plan to change it anytime soon. For convenience I use a
small bar-top bag and a bento box on the top tube.
Nick and I did a 1000k ride together and finished at the same time so
I concluded that it didn't make a big difference how you carry your
stuff. :-)
Kevin Foust
I considered tooling up a decaleur and putting my Acorn bag on the front but since I already have a rear rack mounted I stay with that. The Airy is lighter than a decaleur anyway.
I don't load the rear pannier heavily on a brevet, it's just some clothes to cover the expected weather and I don't notice it at all. Weight isn't an issue even when loaded with my commute load of street clothes.
Regards,
Kevin
cheg
storage. It depends on how optimistic you are. I used to carry
anything I thought I might use but over time I'm trying to shift
toward taking only what will cause me to DNF if I don't have it.
There is also the question of whether to use a drop bag on long
brevets. Well known 3 time PBP Anciene Sophie Matter is of the opinion
that drop bags are not in the spirit of Randonneuring because they
reduce self-reliance. YMMV.
Mike
> Well known 3 time PBP Anciene Sophie Matter is of the opinion
> that drop bags are not in the spirit of Randonneuring because they
> reduce self-reliance. YMMV.
ready to take that plunge yet. I've done 3 600k brevets and each time
I've had a drop bag waiting for me at the overnight. Tentatively the
plan this year is to ride straight through for the most part, perhaps
a brief nap somewhere along the way. If that's the case I could easily
carry an extra pair of shorts and socks with me. I guess the weather
will determine that. And the legs...
--mike
SoCalRando
actually tried a number of various bags and as much as I'd like to
like them, I find that I have a problem with the back of my thighs
brushing them, and that the sway is indeed annoying when they've got
some weight in them (I get out of the saddle fairly often when
climbing and accelerating, and throw/swing the bike a fair amount). I
have not tried the Bagman support, but have my seat pretty far forward
on the rails and don't know if there would even be sufficient room to
attach it.
I also re-tried an old Topeak seatpost-attached trunk (with the 1/4"
or so solid frame, not the stem-sized tubular one), and found as I
remembered that it tends to oscillate (tail wagging the dog) when
swinging the bike out of the saddle, not to mention that there's a
weight limit. I do like the Topeak rack that has the matching trunk
with fold-out panniers that slides and snaps on to the rack, but have
interference issues with attaching it to the Ritchey Breakaway Cross
frame (which has a significantly protruding semi-circular ridge that
surrounds the top and back of the dropout, and is right next to the
lower rack attachment point). The interference wasn't as bad with the
Avenir rack I've used when we've gone touring since it has a thinner
leg which I was able to file down and shim out of the way.
When we've gone loaded touring, I've used large panniers in the back
with as much as 45 pounds in the panniers and attached to the top of
the rack. Once you get used to it, it's not a problem. Using the
DayTrekkers for PBP, I'd probably never carry more than 15 pounds for
both of us.
So I think it does come down to riding style, position on the bike,
and frame geometry as to what will work best. We're going to do a
couple 400's and 600's this year, one each for time, and one each for
enjoyment, and I'm going to run the prospective PBP setup on the
"slow" ones to see how it works. I am going to see if there is a
convenient way to attach some kind of front bag, because as one of you
mentioned, it will be much more convenient for getting to the things
you need often. I've got interrupter brake levers on the bar tops,
and also mount my lights there so I'm not sure how that might work.
Maybe I'll let Nicole deal with that since I'll be carrying everything
else.
Hopefully the input given in this thread has been valuable to others
in addition to me who are still working out PBP storage/carrying
issues.
Thanks again.
Jim
Bill Gobie
On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:05 AM, SoCalRando wrote:
> Thank you all very much for your responses. After reading them I
> actually tried a number of various bags and as much as I'd like to
> like them, I find that I have a problem with the back of my thighs
> brushing them, and that the sway is indeed annoying when they've got
> some weight in them (I get out of the saddle fairly often when
> climbing and accelerating, and throw/swing the bike a fair amount). I
> have not tried the Bagman support, but have my seat pretty far forward
> on the rails and don't know if there would even be sufficient room to
> attach it.
Sorry for not chiming in earlier. It's easy and cheap to hold a bag
away from the seatpost with a short piece of PVC pipe, as illustrated
here:
http://thenewpracticality.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-tickets-to-carradice.html
As for reducing sway, pull the straps as snug as possible. You could
even punch some new holes in the straps.
> So I think it does come down to riding style, position on the bike,
> and frame geometry as to what will work best. We're going to do a
> couple 400's and 600's this year, one each for time, and one each for
> enjoyment, and I'm going to run the prospective PBP setup on the
> "slow" ones to see how it works. I am going to see if there is a
> convenient way to attach some kind of front bag, because as one of you
> mentioned, it will be much more convenient for getting to the things
> you need often. I've got interrupter brake levers on the bar tops,
> and also mount my lights there so I'm not sure how that might work.
> Maybe I'll let Nicole deal with that since I'll be carrying everything
> else.
A front bag is very convenient. I think it is worth some compromises,
in your case re-inventing the front of your bike. I think you've no
choice but to ditch the interruptor levers. Moving the lights to the
fork crown or blades is not hard.
Beware the temptation to hang a bag far enough away from the bars to
clear the interruptor levers. Weight far in front of the steering axis
has a much more deleterious effect on handling than the same weight
close to the axis.
As an experiment before you spend a lot of money, lash a crossbar onto
your brake hoods and tie a brick or two (about 5-10 lbs) to it. See
how it affects handling. Move the brick to the bar tops and compare.
If your bike is happy with the brick far from the bars, you are
probably ok to use any front bag. If your bike is sensitive to the
weight, you should use a small bag that hangs right on the bars. I
like the Brand V Boxy Bar Bag Rivendell sells:
http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/brand-v-boxybar-bag/20-198
Bill Gobie
Steve Rice
As for reducing sway, pull the straps as snug as possible. You could even punch some new holes in the straps.
Steve
Epic Wolff
I know it sounds chivalrous and all to carry some of Nicole's stuff
but you should consider the downside of that approach to riding PBP.
With the many riders crowded together on the road early in the event
along with confusion at the controls, you are likely to get seperated
at some point. If you have any critical items with you that she might
need if this happens (such as food, clothing or mechanical supplies)
then someones ride might be in jeopardy. Or, if you have a serious
physical or mechanical issue and are unable to continue, how will she
manage to carry the required gear for the remainder of the event?
Unless you are together on a tandem you should each be well enough
prepared to carry on individually if needed.
Also, here is one more method of carrying gear on the rear of your
bike. It keeps the weight in close and down low and will accomodate a
large variety of bags.
http://utahrandonneur.wordpress.com/
Hi to Nicole!
Lonnie Wolff
>
> - Show quoted text -
SoCalRando
getting separated or having a ride-ending issue. Actually hadn't
considered that. We'll make sure Nicole isn't completely empty-
handed, so to speak. Of course knowing Nicole, she'd scrounge for
whatever she'd need! ;-)
I also really like your storage solution. It's away from your thighs,
no sway, relatively low and in front of the rear axle. And easier to
pack for PBP than a rack. Might be a winner!
Also, I know I've thanked you before, but thanks again for getting me
through the latter part of my first 300K a couple years ago (and most
miserable brevet for me EVER). Who knows, if it weren't for you I
might not even be going to PBP.
Don't know where you're doing your 600K. If you do San Diego, we'll
see you there. If you do PCH, we may be working it and we'll see you
there.
Thanks.
Jim Swarzman
Jim House
Arkel is making a Randonneur Rack and matched with their TailRider it is
quite the combination.
http://www.arkel-od.com/us/arkel-randonneur-rack.html
http://www.arkel-od.com/us/all-categories/seat-bags-trunk-bags/tailrider.htm
l
I have used a rack with supports that hold the rack and this has less swing
of that format.
It connects to your seat rail and with a sliding device it connects and
circles your seat post.
It is totally adjustable - in fact I have it attached to a Thompson Layback
Seat post without issues.
They also have a new mounting racket that will allow you to use a Brooks
saddle.
Take a look at it...
I LOVE IT!!!
Jim House
-----Original Message-----
From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
SoCalRando
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 2:06 PM
To: randon
Subject: [Randon] Re: Rear storage for PBP
Thanks again.
Jim
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