Rando recruitment: Tips wanted.
Robert Leone
The way the ranonneuring seasons seem to work out here, we start off
early (January) with routes that have a lot of climbing for the 200 and
300 KMs, then when we get into the high heat summer, have 200 and 300 KM
rides along the flatter, ut cooler, coastal areas.
This is actually sort of fun -- as in 2008 abd 2009 the "Rainbow 200"
has featured a lot o that water falling from the sky stuff the song says
never happens in Southern California.
On the other hand, my usual riding club is a bunch of gentle
"tourists," varied routes, weekend rides seldom going over 50 miles a
day, and a pronounced fondness for including the lunch location in the
ride description. some are long-time cyclists, some of the fast adn
strong riders are folks who've gone from newcomers on their first road
bike to folks looking for longer, faster rides while still on their
first road bike, Some of them have a surprizing turn of speed and
endurance -- I'll be seeing if I can lure some onto a little ride up to
San Clemente and back. IF they can turn around there and not keep goiing
to Dana Point Harbor for burgers....
so -- any tips on luring your "regular" road riders into randonneuring?
Robert Leone
Mike Biswell
a lot of roadies have the good sense to stop when they are tired. Still,
there should be more outreach - especially for women, who do participate in
large numbers in marathons, et cetera, but not rando so much, and eager to
read what people say.
There is a HUGE disconnect between rando, young people, women, and people of
color - we ain't got 'em.
My suggestion - perhaps we are overly busy passing out medals to ourselves
and should be looking to pass them out to others?
Also, look what's happenning with the 'grand fondos' in Califonia - a
Century with a time awarded (!) These rides are new and immediately very
popular. Hmmm.
Regards!
Mike
Nick Bull
of RUSA membership, if I recall correctly). But don't set it up to be
too hard or too early in the year (or too early in the morning).
The populaire that I set up this year was too early for most local
club riders to feel prepared for it (March 28) and was too hard for
them to feel enthusiastic about tackling it (5700 feet of climbing in
65 miles). At least I didn't schedule it for 4 am :-) It was not as
well attended as hoped, though several hardy souls came out and braved
the cold, drizzly morning, and a few of them finished and got a
medal.
It's interesting to see the disconnect between my thinking about the
populaire and the typical club rider's thinking. I scheduled it on
the same day our first ACP 200K of the year, thinking "I'll schedule a
nice short little 'populaire' that follows a portion of the brevet
route, to get people interested in randonneuring." My friend who is a
"typical club rider" says she thought "Wow, an impossibly long ride
for this early in the year, on a really hard course. I don't think
so! Maybe in June when I've gotten in better shape."
Nick
Dan Diehn
or fall. I know that I delayed my entry into this sport for a couple
of years because I did not think it was possible for me to get up to
the necessary mileage by mid-April.
Dan
>
> - Show quoted text -
El Puerco
From my point of view, long distance/enduring cycling is daunting to
99.9% of the people I talk to. I am trying to convince a co-worker
who recently began cycling for health reasons to ride the Rosarito-
Ensenada Bike ride. But 50 miles to him seems so insurmountable. I
can't seem to convince him that by April he can be in great condition
to ride it. And he's a thin and wiry guy not a fat slob like me. I
can't even get him to ride 50 miles on the SART. Yesterday I rode to
Mt. Palomar and back from my home in Oceanside and it was only 80
miles total ride and my co-workers all think I'm crazy. Maybe I am
but they all are so scared of just being out on the open road. But,
to me that IS the reason I do these rides-to be out in the open road.
I had a riding partner years ago but all he ever wanted to ride was
the SLR river path. One day I suggested we ride back via Mission
which we did. I thought we did great but he said he was real scared
the entire way back. We have never ridden since. Before I did my
first 200K brevet, I trained with another friend who rode his bike to
work regularly and who had ridden from the Canadian Border to the
Mexican border in his younger days. We trained and rode almost every
weekend and I rode a lot during the week. When we finally finished
the brevet last April, he told me he never wanted to ride this much
ever again and we haven't to this day. He was a strong rider, too.
But his heart wasn't in it like mine was.
Randonneuring by it's every nature is very select. In a group of 100
cyclists you would be lucky if one wanted to do it. To me it's the
difference between a bike rider, a cyclist, and randonneur. Just
because one rides a bike doesn't make one a cyclist, and just because
one is a cyclist doesn't make one a randonneur. It's a process and
most do not like or want to be part of the process. I kind of
stumbled onto RUSA and randonneuring and wanted to experience it. I
liked the fact that finishing was the accomplishment as opposed to the
order of finishing. Yes, we publish times and we inevitably compare
times but in the end the last finisher is hailed as much as the
first. I like that. It's more humane and in my view, more fun.
So, to get back to your original question, I would ask your riding
buddies why they ride and if they are satisfied with it. Some riders
out there might be "hungry" for different experience. I was hungry
for this. I knew I wasn't a racer but I knew I was more than a
typical cyclist. You might find that there are a couple of guys/gals
who might be interested in trying it.
Good luck.
Donald Perley
Donald Perley
Mike Sturgill
We have literally thousands of riders in the Phoenix/Tucson area who ride centuries every year. Shoot, El Tour de Tucson (108 miles) regularly has >4000 century riders in one event. They also advertise that it's not actually a race, but riders are timed and listed in the order of their finish. So, in the minds of the riders, it really is a race. They have sag support every 10-15 miles and police directing traffic at every intersection.
When I think back to when I started riding brevets, it was PBP that was the carrot. I was required to ride the events in order to get there. I still remember the surprise I experienced when I rode my first 300k brevet with NO support. I was trying to figure out what I was paying for. I was accustomed to riding California double centuries and having sag support every 20-30 miles. I'm not trying to dis randonneuring, I'm only stating what I see as the competition we face. I don't know about your area, but when the weather is good here, there is no shortage of organized century rides going on, and no shortage of participation.
Our bike club organizes a century ride every year. I have a permanent that extends that course into a 200k. When we run the century, we offer a 200k RUSA brevet option. We have exceptional support for the riders, including lunch and a BBQ at the end. We get a lot of enthusiasm about the "distance." Wow! A fully supported 125 mile ride, sign me up! When I tell them about the brevet card, getting it signed, the control open and close times, make sure you turn it in at the end, blah, blah, blah, their eyes glaze over. About 90% of the non-RUSA riders never turn their cards in. They just want to do the ride.
Perhaps if we ran some shorter events more like organized metric or imperial century rides, we could get more participation. If there is any way to "minimize" the rules for new riders, I think that might help. I also think that (at least in my area) advertising needs to improve. How does one actually find out about the rides? I'd really like to know what draws people by the thousands to some events.
-Mike
El Puerco
was the carrot."
that carrot seems a little more unattainable due to the new quota
system among other things.
The lack of SAG is what drew me. Can I do this (200, 300Km, ect) on
my own? I do the Rosarito Ensenada ride because it's a big party with
a bike ride. Try and ride 50 miles hungover. That is a challenge.
If someone is going to hold my hand every 20 miles, what have I really
accomplished? Randonneuring requires a more complete cyclist.
You're given a route with pre-determined stopping points, some SAG
support maybe because it's never guaranteed, then you're on your own.
It requires planning and careful preparation. The regimentation of
randonneuring is one of the things I like about it because it makes
things honest for all participants. Plus, the history of the sport.
It predates the TDF. Yes, I do get the privilege of paying for this
but it's not near as much as these century rides I've participated in
where, usually, the BBQ is extra.
"What is it that "randonneuring" offers the average century rider?"
Exactly my point about what makes a rando-nerd. It's not for your
typical century rider or cyclist. They don't want to do
randonneuring. They want to feel safe while they pedal 100 miles
which seems to be a magical distance for those riders. So be it.
There is nothing wrong with that. But I don't get much out of that.
It's not for me. There is a certain element of danger in
randonneuring that appeals to me. I have to plan and then count,
mostly, on myself to get me out most jams.
Eric Keller
> I don't think the predominant reason has to do with distance, at least for
> 200k and less. What is it that "randonneuring" offers the average century
> rider? Generally little or no support other than C-stores, lots and lots of
> rules
This was the downside for me when I started. I wanted to ride a long
ride with other people, but the only people riding distance in February are
randonneurs. Thus began my descent into rando-nerd status.
I'm not that big about the BBQ at the end, but I like pacelines and
group riding.
>
> When I think back to when I started riding brevets, it was PBP that was the
> carrot. I was required to ride the events in order to get there.
I think this is the case for most randonneurs. Too bad there are very few
brevets with anywhere near the stature that PBP has. There are at least
6 people that went from my town to PBP in 2007. None of them are currently
riding brevets, but I am pretty sure most of them want to go back to PBP.
Eric Keller
Jaime Gurrola
> I agree with all of what you say. The question posed, however, was:
> "Rando recruitment: Tips wanted."
suggestion which was to ask your riding friends if they are looking for
more than just a typical weekend ride. A challenge that makes use of
all your cycling skills not just your ability to pedal. Those persons
are out there. Maybe we should/could have a BBQ at the end. I
certainly would not object at all. Maybe, using the charity angle and
getting some sponsors. That could help with getting the word out. In
the end, do we want to grow the sport with more commited riders or do we
just want more riders for our brevets?
Those are two different goals, though not necessarily mutually
exclusive. Maybe, each rando club can have a "thing". SD rando's can
do a " desert to the beach" ride with a finish at the coast, say in
Seaport Village. PCH randos can have a simialr finish but that could go
through some of the wine country in that area. It could work. As far
as the brevet card for non-RUSA types, we could make more like a game
and those with correcty completed cards will get a nominal prize/medal.
This has downside because if you don't this everytime, they won't
come. On the other hand, let's start our own traditions. I'm not
totally dogmatic about this. This is a flexible type of sport. One can
take as much or as little support as one likes.
Christine & Larry Graham
Mike,
Some really good observations and they match what I see here in Ohio. That is why I asked who are the “targeted riders”? Yes, many riders are scared off by the distances, but add to that, scary climbing numbers, and you will have a "Hard sell" to the the normal century or club rider.
We should think of building Randonneuring as a business and the rides as the product. Either we can go after attracting established riders to try a new form of riding or we can try to develop a whole new market with riders that come directly to randonnering. Which one sounds easier?
Many of us see Randonneuring as a lifestyle, we live it every day, but not every cyclist has that genetic flaw. We know and understand the rules and the concept. We accept (to a point) bad roads, bad weather, being lost and minimal support. When put that way, no wonder Randonneuring is a hard sell. As a UMCA race owner and participant, I too am curious why some rides/races sell out and other barely have any entries, even though it’s a better event.
As has been noted, only about 17-1,800 riders of the 5,600+ that have bought a RUSA membership during past 11 years are considered “Active”. To me, that says that the product being product is not being well received and there are few “repeat” customers. There have been a number of rides that, as a customer, I wasn’t happy with and most likely won’t be a repeat customer at. Which is OK, because not every ride is for everyone, but with such a small pool of potential customers (riders) there has to be some honest soul searching if the amount of work that goes into even most basic brevet, is worth it for just a few riders. One should consider if one is developing a route for ones self or to appeal to the wider general ridership.
Should the product be developed to attract and build increased rider participation, or develop the product for the very few? Some may like being a member of an exclusive group, but it doesn’t lend its self to long term sustainability.
Adventure is a state of mind, I can find adventure on my local trail that I’ve ridden 100’s of times. What I, and most riders, don’t want is for the ride organizer to build in adventure. When they do it can easily migrate into a dangerous situation with just a change in the weather that very few experienced cyclists can cope with, not to mention that less experienced riders might find themselves in a life threatening situations. I have a home and family that I want to return at ride’s end and be able to make it to work Monday morning. I want a safe route above all else and I’m not alone. Randonneuring doesn’t pay the bills.
Randonneuring has always been on the fringe here in the US, add to that we have allowed our rides to evolve to such an extreme level that our fellow cyclists shun us. From what I’ve experienced over the last 11 years, I’m afraid our current reputation is well deserved. Will it be possible to reverse course?
I rode a local 300k this past weekend and it was a wonderful route. It would have been a good route for century and club riders looking for something of more of a challenge, for women riders and tandem couples, but they have all been scared away. There was only one other rider there from my first year of Randonneuring 11 years ago. I didn’t hear a single complaint that there was only 7,000 feet of climbing, but heard praise about the great overall route. After my GA1200k failure, this was the perfect ride for me to realize that I’m not over the hill yet and Randonneuring is still within my capabilities.
Randonneuring, just as in other businesses, once a customer is lost, they are gone forever.
LG
From: Mike Sturgill <mikest...@cox.net>
To: randon <ran...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 4:32:49 PM
Subject: [Randon] Re: Rando recruitment: Tips wanted.
Jerry Zornes
guard fell back on the difficult route finding is needed and lots of
climbing so we minimize DNFs at PBP. The only problem is the number of
potential PBP participants is a small subset of subset of all
cyclists. So the question really is do you create all events for that
small group or create more inclusive events to attract more people out
of which some will have a desire to tackle larger challenges. It would
be akin to having everyone who wanted a drivers license to train for
Paris-Dakar. If so there wouldn't be many drivers.
Sent from my mobile device
JZ
Juan Salazar
On Sep 8, 6:02 pm, Jaime Gurrola <elpuerc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike Sturgill wrote:
> > I agree with all of what you say. The question posed, however, was:
> > "Rando recruitment: Tips wanted."
value in formulating "tips" to attract other potential randonneurs. In
my case PBP was no carrot. I do not see PBP as the goal, far from it.
I wish there were 1200K's in every state, in every country. Each one
offering something different in terms of challenge and scenery. What
attracts me to randonneuring is being able to ride the whole day, for
several days, disconnected from the rest of the world. All that
matters is the next climb, the scenery and companionship along the
way. I would also be careful not to underestimate the challenge that a
century ride can be, especially if you do it fast. Also, I really
don't think that randonneuring is all that different from a supported
ride I've been part of, especially if there are convenience stores
along the way every 30 miles or so. To be truly unsupported, one would
take along food, a water filter and the necessary gear to sleep.
The way I have been able to get a few people interested in
randonneuring is by writing ride reports and posting them on the local
cycling club e-mailing list. On every brevet I take pictures and spend
many hours reliving the moments on the bike and putting it all into
words. We should also encourage century riders by making the point
that randonneuring is well in grasp. As part of my training for longer
events, I usually take a few local non-randonneur riders along with
me. I have done unofficial 200K's and 300K's that way. On every
occasion the cyclists that joined me finished the ride. They were
quite challenging too, since I love to climb. In all honesty, these
rides are to me as fun as an official brevet, with the added benefit
that I don't have to drive hours to the start. I'm not really into
randonneuring for the recognition either, although it is nice. I
believe that there are many randonneurs out there, they probably just
don't feel the need to be associated with an organization.
I also wanted to point out that I would really like to see more Audax
style events. I believe that would also be attractive to many cyclists
and would also help conquer the distances more easily by working
together.
Juan S.
--
+---------------------------------------+
| Juan PLC Salazar ____ __o |
| www.cycloblogger.info ____ _`\<,_ |
| 607.253.9327 ____ (_) (_) |
+---------------------------------------+
Juan PLC Salazar
> Mike Sturgill wrote:
>
>> I agree with all of what you say. The question posed, however, was:
>> "Rando recruitment: Tips wanted."
>>
Discussing about what lures oneself to randonneuring will be of great
Mike Biswell
On Sep 8, 6:32 pm, Jerry Zornes <jerry.zor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I remember a similar discussin a couple of years ago. The established
> guard fell back on the difficult route finding is needed and lots of
> climbing so we minimize DNFs at PBP. The only problem is the number of
> potential PBP participants is a small subset of subset of all
> cyclists.
and really the only way RUSA can prepare riders for rides such as PBP.
To me, the quasi self-supporting ethos overlay has no real impact on
DNFs. If the median age of the 1200km rider is 50 years old, can a 50
year old person really be toughened up through rando dogma? I question
this.
RUSA activity is decentralized in a lot of ways, not the same here as
there, and some quiet but surely present slow/no-growth sentiment. I
am not sure what to think about this, but the long rides are so
unique, I really don't see any need for me to encourage anyone (almost
anyone) to attempt a ride past 300km, so whatever.
On the other hand, not going with the rando vs roadie sentiment as a
brevet is a very doable ride.
The target riders are the spandex crowd, and people that want to
connect with bicycling, but are turned off by the spandex crowd - the
kids wearing the skateboard helmets riding fixies..
We are in the middle of a huge bike boom, and if rando doesn't grow a
little - it stands to reason the rider demographic will not change.
But good news - rando has a hammerlock on the male steel bike
appreciation crowd.
Regards!
Mike
Emily O'Brien
charity rides? Aside from the format, the big difference is
advertising and name recognition. Even non-cyclists have heard of
some of them, and there are glossy brochures at checkout counters,
offices, and other events. All of those cycling events with thousands
and thousands of people don't get that way by having a little website
you can find if you're really looking for it; they do a lot of
advertising. To many non-cyclists, 150 mi might as well be 750 mi,
and they aren't really looking at what kind of support you get; but
they've still heard of the MS150 and think it's a cool thing to do.
I'm saying we need to go on a big advertising campaign, especially
since I think many of us really appreciate the lack of advertising and
the corporate sponsorship that goes with all of these other events
that do advertise. But I think that ultimately, most cyclists have
never heard of randonneuring and at most might they know that there's
some kook in their local club who thinks it's fun to ride all day and
all night without sleeping.
If you want to draw more riders, more women, more young riders, etc,
you have to advertise events in places where those people will see
it. As has been mentioned, marathons have a lot of women; triathlons
have a lot of women on bikes. College races and college bike teams
have a lot of young riders. Charity rides and club centuries have a
lot of people who have already worked their way up to one goal and
might be receptive to the suggestion of another one.
Unfortunately, aggressive advertising is expensive and time consuming,
and requires either raising entry fees or raising sponsorship money.
It will change the character of the events, and coping with larger
numbers of riders will cause challenges for ride organizers.
But in this case, effective outreach means bombarding people with
information until they get the idea through their heads that brevets
exist and can be completed and enjoyed by normal people like them.
Last I checked, nobody signs up for a ride they've never heard of.
Emily O'Brien
Tom Rosenbauer
(as he progressed from his very first 200k all the way to a successful S1200
completion), they are among the very best I've read and you can find them
here:
http://www.cycloblogger.info/
FWIW, I've found that I've been able to expand my Eastern PA series by
offering a year-round R-12 series of monthly 200k events. While they were
originally targeted for my "regular" riders, I've found that these events
have attracted many new participants over the past year -- surprisingly,
even in the winter months with sub 20F weather. On my recent September
200k, I had 5 new participants, out of a total of 23 -- of the 5 new
participants, 4 were riding their very first brevet -- you can read some of
their comments at:
http://www.njrando.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=414&p=1378#p1378
One final thought ... while I have been working at growing my Eastern PA
series over the past couple of years, the 25-50 participants I'm getting for
my events is about the maximum I can handle with my current organizational
structure. And at this point, I'm mostly interested in maintaining the
"quality" of my events, rather than increasing the "quantity" of
participants.
Regards,
-Tom Rosenbauer
Eastern PA RBA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Salazar" <jsalaz...@gmail.com>
.....The way I have been able to get a few people interested in
randonneuring is by writing ride reports and posting them on the local
cycling club e-mailing list. On every brevet I take pictures and spend
many hours reliving the moments on the bike and putting it all into
words. .....
Mike Biswell
On Sep 9, 6:21 am, Emily O'Brien <emilyonwhe...@emilysdomain.org>
wrote:
> But in this case, effective outreach means bombarding people with
> information until they get the idea through their heads that brevets
> exist and can be completed and enjoyed by normal people like them.
> Last I checked, nobody signs up for a ride they've never heard of.
>
Sometime in the next day or so, Lance Armstrong will send out one text
message, and a heck of a lot of people will converge in Los Angeles at
the drop of the hat to ride with Lance. Traffic will be delayed. It
will be international news. It's a nice time to be a bicyclist.
Regards!
Mike
Oldairhead
I'll offer my point of view on bringing new riders into the sport of
rando. I have been somewhat discouraged lately about my ability as an
RBA to bring new riders into the sport. We have a pretty strong local
cycling community around here as well as large metropolitan areas like
Salt lake and Las Vegas to draw riders from. My routes are highly
scenic with many of them featuring the local national parks of which
there are many. The area is already well known as a cycling
destination and riders come from all over the US and the world to ride
here. Yet, I have trouble getting new riders to come out and give it a
try. Turnout for my 300k and 400k events has always been pretty low so
I have thought about cancelling them and adding more shorter events. I
think that my events are on the easier side which I believe is the way
to appeal to newer rando riders. I believe that very hard routes
appeal to an even smaller segment of the sport and do little to help
promote more participation in randonneuring. There can be plenty of
andventure in any route when factors such as the weather or
mechanicals wont co-operate. Just ask anyone who rode in the infamous
Arrivaca 400k a few years ago. It is a pretty easy route normally but
the weather had other plans for the riders. Even the heartiest rando
riders were severely challenged that day.
I'm not sure what the answer is and there may well not be one. I think
however the thing that might help the most is to de-emphasize the
"extreme-ness" of the sport. People think we are crazy enough already
and we all to often confirm that with our stories. Each active RUSA
member is an ambassador for randonneuring, and if each of us focused
more on some of the remarkable moments that we experience in our trips
and less on how gnarly the were then perhaps we might influence others
to give it a try. I do not believe that randonneuring will ever become
as mainstream as it is in France, but I would like to see it grow here
in the US.
Lonnie Wolff
RBA Southern Utah Region
www.subrevet.org
On Sep 9, 7:21 am, Emily O'Brien <emilyonwhe...@emilysdomain.org>
wrote:
Jerry Zornes
nice route. Up into Zion. I suspect in his case its the distance that
keeps the crowds down. I mean from a major population centers. I would
put his routes as must do.
I know this may be odd but perhaps part of the problem is the naming?
Lots of people ride centuries but balk at 200K. It sounds like a lot
further than say the 109 of the Tour de Tucson. The same with the
300s. I've even talked to people who've ridden doubles tell me that a
300K is too far. Perhaps more customer friendly naming would help.
Larry Parker
If you subscribe to the Rando list AND the UltraCycling list you may
remember that a year or two ago the UMCA was all in a roil over the
direction it was taking and whether management was legal and in the best
interest. One of the arguments was that UMCA had not grown much, while RUSA
had been growing rapidly, with the number of Brevets mushrooming.
This thread would lead someone to think the opposite. Not that RUSA should
get complacent, and there are some good ideas for "marketing" and PR, but
realize that there are other organizations, or people anyway, that are
pretty impressed with how much Rando riding has grown in a short time.
Just trying to keep some perspective here. Now go on and grow the thing even
bigger!
cheg
riders, 200K, 15000') and RAMROD (800 riders, 250K, 10000'). Those are
well known destination rides and people train for months for that
event. And they are not as hard as many brevets.There's a market for
difficult rides, maybe we just need better publicity and better
shirts.
Be careful what you ask for. Would any of the RBA's out there be happy
if 2000 people showed up for one of their mountain 200k's? We would
need to ramp up the logistical support a lot.
andy
I recently blogged my own newbie advice to recruit friends; perhaps
you can find something useful to target my demographic:
http://sagittandy.blogspot.com/2009/08/randonneuring-is-achievable-hobby.html
Note how I love the independence and self-support, I didn't mention
PBP, and I still have a 'real life'.
PS: My thanks to the many bloggers who sparked my interest, the
volunteers who design and process each ride, and to all the friendly
randonneurs who make me feel welcome. You are doing these things
incredibly well.
Andy in NC
Kevin Turinsky
said, especially Lonnie.
This is my second season as an RBA. I knocked myself out to create a
whole new collection of routes far and wide across our entire road
system up here; with loads of variety. I took photos, I made contacts,
I drove a bazillion miles, blogged like a madman...
Anyway, while I attracted the most rando riders up here ever, most are
still sport riders preferring the shorter rides or roadies training
for specific (other) events.
My personal campaign is to demonstrate to new riders and potential
riders that randonneuring isn't about extreme this or extreme that;
struggling against the ingrained affects of decades of marketing.
Realistically, of course the elements can get extreme. But that's more
of a matter of being prepared. Rather, I'm really trying to get across
to riders that it's about the love for the bike, personal challenge,
beautiful scenery, adventure, and new friends. And, above all, that
randonneuring is really very approachable...by all kinds of riders.
(Thank you Kent Peterson!)
However, I think the biggest obstacle is the idea of no support. I
really get the feeling that that's a very difficult mental hurdle for
most cyclists to get over, and that's why other events of similar
distances, yet providing aid stations, sag wagons, etc. attract
throngs more riders than I'll ever get.
I guess we'll see just how successful I was this year in broadcasting
the rando méthode to other riders when next season comes around. I
have all winter to hype the 2010 season up.
On a thoroughly positive note though, being involved as an RBA the
last two years has let me meet some absolutely wonderful people and
make some very good new friends. To me, that's just as good as the
endorphins I get from riding.
Kevin Turinsky
RUSA RBA - Alaska
Donald Perley
Robert Leone
The 2007 Rainbow 200 KM was not only my first brevet, but also my sirt
organized, named long ride. I come from a commuting/touring/utility
riding background, so the "self-supported" part didn't hold too many
terrors.
A couple of riders in my usual ride group are interested in Brevets --
one is oriignally from northern France himself, and is getting a custom
bike built for brevets as neigher his leMond Sarthe nor his Trek 520 are
quite what he wants for that sort of ride. Another guy's also been
asking me about brevets, but his work schedule is beyond chaotic.
I'll be dropping hints to others -- a couple of the guys have lost a
lot of weight over the past year, and may be looking for more
challenging rides.
Robert Leone
Ingle, Bruce
> and time consuming, and requires either raising
> entry fees or raising sponsorship money. It will
> change the character of the events, and coping
> with larger numbers of riders will cause challenges
> for ride organizers.
In New England, we've had some limited luck increasing ridership by
posting flyers in the local shops and posting articles in local racing
and touring club newsletters. It doesn't have any significant cost, but
it does take a lot of time, and it's easy to forget or let go in favor
of other labor-intensive priorities (like arrowing our shorter rides.)
AFAIK, nobody is currently in charge of advertising for our series.
This mostly increases ridership on our 200k -- good years have seen well
over 100 riders -- although we've had 400s in the past with 50 riders or
so as well.
The large ridership is mainly a problem on the 200; we've been able to
mitigate the problem somewhat by sending riders out grouped by intended
completion time, fastest riders first. It's usually only a few minutes
at most between groups and completion time is usually only an issue for
the fastest riders, so there hasn't been any need to account for the
delayed start of the slower groups.
- Bruce
littlecirclesvt.com :: mike beganyi
> really get the feeling that that's a very difficult mental hurdle for
> most cyclists to get over, and that's why other events of similar
> distances, yet providing aid stations, sag wagons, etc. attract
> throngs more riders than I'll ever get.
>
another RBA) the locals kind of looked at me all funny when I dropped
into a shop to hang a poster - "300k, 1 day, generous time limit, self
supported, no broom wagon or mechanics" - this was even the case in a
shop full of go faster roadie bikes, full kit and carbon this and
that.
the idea of pulling into a convenience store for self support just
doesn't seem to do it for some folks...
that said, 15 promised to show, 5 preregistered via BikeReg, 10 rode,
and 4/5 of the pre-reg didn't show due to the threat of fairly
unpleasant weather... which turned into summer temps with blue skies,
a rain shower that hit some of the riders.
-mike
Donald Perley
Mike Beganyi
But I still had the odd looks when dropping off posters and talking about it at 2 shops in town.
I think there is a comfort level with this week's ride being a GMBC ride... and many folks (as mentioned before) target a late summer century as 'the event'.
Perhaps it is the 'adventure' and self supported side of this. On a 'club' century there is a whole nother vibe, from the ones I've done.
-Mike
Mike Beganyi
Burlington, VT
www.littlecirclesvt.com
Keith Gates
solution partially lies in RUSA's web presence.
Randonneuring is a term I'd never heard before, when I started out.
I'm actually really surprised I ever found out about it. "Way back"
in 2002, a friend of mine rode a 200K and came back and told me all
about it, went on-and-on, and so I had to give it a try. I was hooked
HARD, never looked back... but it was all word of mouth, and it was
ultimately because *I* was looking for "what's next" after 100 miles.
So, (#1), the interest has to pre-exist. Out-and-out recruitment?
I've talked people into trying the rides, but they never come back.
It's just not for everyone - and it took me a while to understand
that. I was always wondering "what'd I do wrong?" Prospective
randonneurs have to want it - simply saying "you should try XXX miles"
sometimes works, but it takes more to make it stick. Maybe only one
or two cyclists a year around here will ever wonder "what's next?"
... for those folks that ARE interested, we just need to make it
easier for them to find us:
"Randonneur" and "brevet" - even referring to distances in terms of
kilometers instead of miles - is not common knowledge enough, from
what I've experienced, even among the most passionate cyclists. Those
terms are perfectly valid for us, but they're not "household". I work
as a part-time mechanic in a bike shop and get a chance to interface
with many different kinds of riders, and I've yet to find anyone that
says "yes" when I ask them if they've heard of a "brevet", or anything
of the sort. Similarly, everyone seems to know what a 5K and 10K
are... they're runs, pretty common... but mention a 200K, and suddenly
nobody has a clue. It's just not commonplace. It always takes me a
while to explain "what I do", even to other cyclists.
So, (#2), help the search engines find RUSA.org via more common
terms:
We don't need to change the way we already refer to things, just help
the search engines make the connection. After prospective riders find
us, then let them become educated on what this "longer distance stuff"
is called. If you do a search on Google or Yahoo or Bing today,
anything like "more than a century ride", "farther than 100 mile bike
ride", "long-distance bicycling" or any variation, it takes a long
while to get RUSA's website to show up on the first Google page...or
even the 5th Google page. Even if you search for "brevet", RUSA's
page is the third listing on Google. The state of technology and how
information is shared is becoming largely web-based, alongside word of
mouth. People search for "everything" these days. We really need to
engage RUSA and see what it would take towards making the RUSA website
more of a top result with regards to tags, keywords, and the like.
Ideally, a potential rider should only be two or three clicks away
from his potential RBA's email.
Maybe there's more to it than I'm estimating - but that's my idea on a
solution. The riders are out there. Help them find RUSA, they find
their RBA, they send off an email, THEN we got 'em. Cheaper than
flyers, t-shirts, and rampant advertising - I think the web presence
and search-ability of RUSA.org would go a long way.
Thanks for letting me weigh in...
Keith Gates
RUSA #1445
Kansas City Region
Tom Rosenbauer
events, I always ask them how they heard about my series and also inquire
about their cycling background and goals. I get all sorts of responses,
but the one attached below is fairly typical, and I offer this to the group
as a single datapoint, FWIW.
Regards,
-Tom Rosenbauer
Eastern PA RBA
----------- attachment -------------------
.... I got to your website by starting at the Ultra Marathon Cycling
Association website to the Randonneurs USA website, then to your website
via the calender.
As far as my cycling background...
Short story: I bought my first road bike in 1971. It was a semi-custom
Paris Sport, deep metallic red with blacks lugs and airbrushed gold
highlights and gold pin stripes, cottered cranks (of course) and Huret
derailleurs. A great bike! Anyway after a lot of use it was stolen in
1982.
I then got a 1983 Trek 720 touring bike. I used the bike for a number
of years for multi-day and two week tours in the New York state,
Pennsylvania and New Jersey areas, as well as year round daily
commuting. Did my first organized century in 1984.
I started racing mountain bikes and road bikes in 1988, destroying a
number of aluminum frames along the way (an aluminum mountain frame can
only last about one season of hard racing). Also did a number of
century and double century rides as well as a couple of 24-hour mountain
bike races. I stopped racing bicycles at the end of the 1995 season
because I changed jobs that required me to be on the road a fair amount
making it impossible to maintain a decent training schedule.
After I quit racing bicycles I took up inline speed skating, both short
track and road races from marathon distance, 100 km and longer. Some of
the folks on the racing circuit took themselves a little too seriously
making the racing less than fun after awhile. I stopped racing skates
in 2000, and started running marathons and 50 km races. Last year I
stopped running because of chronic back pain.....
Anyway I decided to go back to my roots and start cycling again,
although I no longer want to do any crits and can't race mountain
bikes. So after a 13 year hiatus with only occasional bike rides, I
started cycling seriously again last year and am now trying to regain
some sense of cycling fitness. This past July I took a two week
vacation and did a solo tour around the perimeter of Nova Scotia.
I enjoy personal challenges and like long distances. I've always been
intrigued with BMB and kinda always dreamed about doing it since I
learned about it in the mid '80's, which is what lead me to the
ultradistance cycling stuff when I decided to start riding again.
Future goals? we'll see.
Sorry I got a little carried away. Hope I didn't bore you too much.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the ride on Saturday. Sounds like the
weather should be good....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Gates" <commut...@gmail.com>
>
> ... We don't need to change the way we already refer to things, just help
> the search engines make the connection. After prospective riders find
> us, then let them become educated on what this "longer distance stuff"
> is called. ....
Juan PLC Salazar
> When I get a new rider that expresses an interest in one of my upcoming
> events, I always ask them how they heard about my series and also inquire
> about their cycling background and goals.
Yes, I can attest to that. Once I read this e-mail I had to dig out my
reply to Tom. An extra data point, maybe not so representative:
Tom Rosenbauer wrote:
> Juan,
>
> When I started this new R-12 series, I expected mainly local participants
> already familiar with the area and looking to just ride year-round.
> You are
> certainly most wecome to join us on 11/15 -- but please keep in mind that
> this is a limited support event - you get a cuesheet and brevet card
> and off
> you go.
>
> I'm curious as to how you heard about this event. I'd also be
> interested in
> anything you care to share about your cycling background and goals for
> the
> coming year.
>
>
Hi Tom,
I heard about the event from Jamie Gartenberg, who will be participating
in the Endless Mountains 1200K next year. He told me about randonneuring
and then I started to look for information on my own. I am not an
experienced cyclist, having taken up the sport just recently (August).
Formerly I was an avid soccer player, but an ACL injury in May 2007 has
kept me away from it since. I underwent surgery and I decided to try out
cycling, as it is less demanding on my knees. I really enjoy cycling and
my endurance has improved significantly over the past couple of months.
I have so far completed 3 century rides, two of which were in the last 8
days. I regularly ride 4 to 5 times a week, from 20 to 30 miles on
weekdays and 50+ on either Saturday or Sunday. With respect to future
goals, I'd like to improve on all aspects of my cycling, such as
technique, endurance, climbing strength, etc. Next year I hope to
participate in more long distance events, hopefully finishing the year
with a 600K event. It will all depend on how I progress. Above all I
just enjoy being out there on a bike, trying to work hard and having fun
at the same time.
Regards,
Juan
pamela blalock
years, I've witnessed phenomenal growth in the rides available and people
participating. So I've been a little surprised by this thread, especially
given that other recent discussions have involved worrying about too many
participants in PBP next time and not being able to get in. But I do
understand there is still concern about how to grow the sport, and a valid
discussion has ensued.
We have a few 20 somethings in our area doing brevets, but mostly it's grey
hair poking out from under those helmets. I've been doing a bit of
hill-climb racing this year - polar opposite of brevets - short and intense.
Like brevets, we see a few of the same faces at all the events year after
year, and a few new ones. We also see a relatively small number of
participants under 40. The 40-49 age group is THE most competitive,
dontchaknow!
There are lots of reasons. Expense and children being a big reason 20 and 30
somethings don't take part. The time commitment to do a long brevet, or
drive to a distant mountain climb can be tough on a young parent. The
expense, entry fees and equipment, motels and food, can be tough as well.
And let's not even start talking about fancy wheels, lights, bags and custom
bikes!
But all that said, I will add my own 2 cents about how to get new riders.
The 2 cents I have left over that is :-)
I started doing these events because I met some really nice people who liked
to ride socially, who talked up this big ride in France and who nurtured new
riders along the way.
So when you show up for your next 200km, look around for new faces. Go over
and speak to them, welcome them, and gasp... ride with them. Stop worrying
about PRs.
Rather than trying for a PR, consider something like trying to keep a small
group together for the whole ride, stopping for food along the way and
mechanicals as necessary. Use those mechanicals as teaching opportunities.
If someone has a flat tire, gather the group together and asked who doesn't
know what to do. Teach them.
One of the biggest factors for why some folks are scared by our events is
night riding alone, especially for us chicks. There I said it. I don't want
to ride alone at night. As a female in this day and age, I just feel a bit
more vulnerable. If a ride has night riding, I won't go unless I know I'll
have someone to ride with.
If I go out and do a 200km, and the ride blows apart 1 mile from the start,
and I ride the whole thing alone, I am not likely to show up for a ride that
would include nighttime riding. If, OTOH, I rode a 200km with a small group
who was willing to stop for mechanicals, bio-breaks and food, I'd probably
show up for the 300km. If I found myself in the same or similar company,
then I might be more likely to show for a 400km that had some nighttime
riding, hoping that the trend would continue.
When I did my first event back in 1986, we had a small group within our bike
club that had an interest in PBP. One of our members had ridden in 79 and 83
and told great stories. We had slightly different paces, and tended to form
two groups, a fast and a medium pace, but each of our groups stuck together
pretty well and looked after each other. I feel very lucky to have started
with these folks.
Over the years I have ridden with lots of different folks and sometimes have
ridden a segment alone, but I always make an effort to find company and my
personal best rides were with always groups and it's what draws me back.
It's one of the reasons I love the format of the Fleche.
So I'd offer this suggestion for those who want to grow the sport - be
friendly!
pamela blalock pgb at blayleys.com
care-free in watertown, ma http://www.blayleys.com
Ron Alexander
this thread.
However, as a newcomer to RUSA and brevet riding, I believe this
particular response has MUCH to consider if there is interest in growing
the support.
I believe the ideas that Ms. Blalock has captured need serious
consideration. Just my 2 cents.
-----Original Message-----
From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of pamela blalock
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:38 PM
To: 'randon'
Subject: [Randon] Re: Rando recruitment: Tips wanted.
dickf...@sympatico.ca
Enjoy
Dick
Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network
-----Original Message-----
From: pamela blalock <el...@blayleys.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:37:36
To: <ran...@googlegroups.com>
Fastskiguy
A few guys I know don't like the idea of being a "tourist" but aren't
exactly whippet-thin and winning their local race series either. The
time-limit, organized event that is actually challenging to finish is
appealing. Hopefully I'll be able to get a couple of buddies to do the
series next year here in Chicago. If we can all just get one other
person to join in a couple of rides it'd be huge for our membership.
For me...well I just wanted that super randonneur pin and that's all
the incentive I needed... :) (...you don't see these around here and
you've got to be a pretty tough guy to win that award)
Joe
On Sep 7, 7:13 am, Robert Leone <rob_le...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Dear Randons:
> The way the ranonneuring seasons seem to work out here, we start off
> early (January) with routes that have a lot of climbing for the 200 and
> 300 KMs, then when we get into the high heat summer, have 200 and 300 KM
> rides along the flatter, ut cooler, coastal areas.
> This is actually sort of fun -- as in 2008 abd 2009 the "Rainbow 200"
> has featured a lot o that water falling from the sky stuff the song says
> never happens in Southern California.
> On the other hand, my usual riding club is a bunch of gentle
> "tourists," varied routes, weekend rides seldom going over 50 miles a
> day, and a pronounced fondness for including the lunch location in the
> ride description. some are long-time cyclists, some of the fast adn
> strong riders are folks who've gone from newcomers on their first road
> bike to folks looking for longer, faster rides while still on their
> first road bike, Some of them have a surprizing turn of speed and
> endurance -- I'll be seeing if I can lure some onto a little ride up to
> San Clemente and back. IF they can turn around there and not keep goiing
> to Dana Point Harbor for burgers....
> so -- any tips on luring your "regular" road riders into randonneuring?
>
> Robert Leone
Skip
1. I did two seasons in Orlando, and only quit when my local RBA
changed. After a few early contacts and updates, the sport seemed to
vanish. I haven't had the time or motivation to seek why. We also
had a brief tie to the local Florida Freewheelers bike club and that
brought a lot of visibility via their web site and calendar.
2. I agree with several of the riders that the sport is much more fun
when you have a group, or even a ride partner, to go with. That said,
it is very tough to find riders of similar skills and goals. On a lot
of the rides, even the longer ones, there seems to be a rush to get
done. Part of the reason may be that the longer distances tend to
attract the faster road riders looking for new challenges. This
strategy seems to miss the whole point.
3. The one negative for me is the support/safety issue. I think
being self-supported is fine and was personnally pretty good at it.
But "things" break beyond personal repair and conv store support.
People do get lost, hurt , sick. Also, some of the night riding
locally goes thru potentially scary areas. We have all been at a
remote store late on a weekend and seen the locals loading cases of
beer into the front seats of pickup trucks...on their own style of
brevets. Spandex-wearing goofs with bike lights seem like good
targets for sport in the wee hours. All that said, I think some
modest level of support, even a manned midway check in and a sweep
vehicle, would make the events more attractive to newer riders.
We have a very cool local 24 hour event, non-RUSA, in Sebring FL. You
do the first 12 hours out in the world, then finish the second twelve
on a road racing course, with your own lights and personal support in
the pits. This was where I tested out my skills and gear for longer
rides like the Fleche and 400k. Just knowing that I was never more
than 4 miles from help let me relax and focus on the riding
experience. Anyone that can, should give this ride a try. I wish
RUSA would allign with it and make a 400k there as an option.
4. Lastly, I couldn't agree more with the rider suggesting we all
talk to, welcome, and ride with, the newer riders. I would never have
stayed with the sport if one seasoned fellow by the name of Reinhard
hadn't done so. Eventually we had a whole group centered around
him . So all you cool-kids with your custom rando rigs, high power
lights, and PBP stickers...make the effort to help the person who is
still trying to figure out reflective ankle bands and the sport will
surely grow.
Robert Leone
A mis-season or late season populaire with only one control (make it a
coffee house or bakery if possible) might be a better lure than an early
season populaire. We have a lot of folks show up for 200 kms in Januarry
but a) the weather isn't usually prohibitive, just occasionally wet in
January and b) there's a huge number of regular randos (not necessarily
recruitment targets, they're already in) who want to start their
campaigns early.
I don't think a creative RBA would have too much success marketing a
double metric century with 8,000 feet of climbing as a post-holiday
fitness test/fat burner ride....
Last year our then-RBA tried some mid-season populaires a couple of
weeks before regular brevets, both as "mrketing" and as training rides I
guess. I'll have to ask about that. It was notable because one short,
relatively flat ride brought out all the fixed gear bikes, it seemed. I
was on my commute bike with a 7 speed internal geared hub myslef. A new
rider showed up late and was still working on the paper when we pulled
out, buthte RBA assured her she'd catch up to me.. She did, on the first
leg, but about 20 miles out.
As for the social aspects of the ride, the chat before, during and
after events is why I would suggest helping your local RBA even if
you're not riding that event. Folks on team replica race bikes, steel
tourers, road-modded cyclocross bikes and recumbents all talkinga bout
common road conditions and gear -- all with respect. It's great. And
listening in, I can learn a few things about crank arm length.
Robert Leone