Re: Par Lay Voo?

[Greg Merritt]

A recent post to this list (DrCodfish, pjinoa...@comcast.net)
suggested that folks interested in PBP could spend time now practicing
French.

I took French in high school, but that was it. Several years ago I
decided that it was pretty silly to be "sort of familiar" with French,
so I decided to start doing at least a little something in French most
days on a very regular basis.

Over time, I've found a lot of easy and fun ways to do this. Here are
some of them below. Maybe others who are trying to improve their
French will enjoy some of these, too.

Does anyone else have resources that they like?

-Greg

* DVDs --

Watch once with subtitles off to force yourself to focus, then watch
again with subtitles on. (Don't miss the Paris-Brest reference in
Amélie -- it didn't make it into the subtitles!!)

If you get a $10/month Netflix subscription, you can check out one
disk at a time, but you can also watch many movies streaming instantly
on demand. You can't turn off the subtitles in the streaming movies,
however.

Here is the well-hidden link to the Netflix catalog by genre,
including language categories, as well as a link to all of their
French-language films:

http://www.netflix.com/AllGenres
http://www.netflix.com/SubGenre/Foreign_Languages/2620/French_Language/2554?gpgid=2514

Oh, films vary wildly in terms of how easy they are to understand.
Subject matter/vocabulary, accents, background noise, recording
quality, actors' enunciation, and so on can all play a role. If you
get a tricky one, don't worry; try another.

You can try watching English-language movies with French dubbing, but
I can't really get into that. Darth Vader voiced over by somebody
other than James Earl Jones? Ha ha!

* Streaming radio over the Internet --

Just play it all the time. Ok, maybe not all the time, but it's easy
to let it roll for a little bit here and there when you're wrenching
on the bike, cooking dinner, stretching, soaking in the tub, or can't
fall asleep.

My tip here: try listening to the news. Not only do you learn about
events abroad, but you'll find that headlines are repeated through the
hour, and the big stories evolve from day to day. If you don't get
something completely the first time, you get to hear it come around
again.

This site has lots of stations. Note that it's by *country*, not by
language, but most of the France stations listed are in French:

http://listenlive.eu/france.html

This little program costs a few bucks, but it lets you listen to
thousands and thousands of radio stations around the world, live:

http://www.wunderradio.com/

There's a free Radio France player application for Mac, Windows,
iPhone/iTouch and Windows Mobile:

http://presse.radiofrance.fr/

* Streaming television over the Internet --

This site is somewhat annoying, but it lists many stations:

http://www.webmaster-gratuit.com/tele/

Some of these just loop the same content for ten or fifteen minutes
for hours, and some of them don't broadcast around the clock. Some
are the complete channel content, live. Quality is from grainy to
better than analog tv.

I'm digging watching local television broadcasts. I like to check in
on the latest goings-on in Lille or Roubaix on Weo, or catch a little
local history in Grenoble. I try to get up early enough in the
mornings to catch the next exciting episode of the completely cheesy
soap opera "Les Vacances d'Amour" on IDF1. I can't stomach the dubbed
episodes of The Bionic Woman that run every day, however.

* Podcasts --

Look for LCI news video podcasts. The "One Thing in a French Day"
audio podcast is also a nice little nugget. There are plenty of other
titles, too.

http://onethinginafrenchday.podbean.com/
http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/podcast/

* Reading --

Ok, this is pretty easy with the Web. Just find Web sites that have
stuff you want to read. News, sports, bike forums, history, anything
on fr.wikipedia.org, and on and on. Books are as good as ever, too.
;)

* Comics --

Ok, so maybe that's just reading, but I have simply fallen in love with Astérix:

http://asterix.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix
http://asterix.fr/
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix

(Astérix doesn't seem to be as well-known in the U.S as in the rest of
the world. I talked to someone who's read Astérix in French, English,
German, and her native Serbian, and she says that they're all funny
EXCEPT for the English translations.)

Astérix is full of wordplay and cultural references. I found myself
continuously Googling to chase down these references, or asking a
student from France to help me with them. He would often laugh,
instantly understand why I would never have gotten the reference, and
then proceed to explain to me. The comic has also been the topic of
several academic texts!

Tintin comics, from Belgium but in French, are written in much more
straightforward French and are easier to understand than Astérix.
However, Astérix is so much richer and can be side-splittingly funny.

* Computer / device default language

I have an iPod Touch, which is like an iPhone without the telephone.
I set mine to use French as the default language. It's just another
way to learn a bit more vocabulary. You can do the same sort of
default language change to a Mac, Windows, or Linux computer.

* Text chat on-line

This has been invaluable to me. Live text chat has many of the
elements of in-person spoken conversation, but the pace is slowed down
just a bit. If your text partner types a word you don't know, you can
stare at it, think about it, and even look it up in a dictionary
(paper or on-line) without breaking the flow of the conversation. You
don't have the time you'd have when writing a letter, but those little
permissible pauses make a world of difference.

For me, spending time regularly day in and day out doing text chat in
French was simply PRICELESS for taking the step to being able to have
(nearly) reasonable conversations in spoken French.

I spent a lot of time at first chatting with francophone folks in
groups via the very silly on-line virtual world called Second Life,
but now I just use the various instant messaging services to chat
directly with folks.

* Dictionaries --

Translation dictionaries can obviously be helpful. However, plain old
dictionaries can be a really rich resource for your language-learning
toolbox. If you look up a word whose definition included words
unknown to you, look those up, too. Repeat as necessary. You can
usually get to the bottom of things. However, plants and animals can
be tough -- definitions like "a large tree with broad, three-point
leaves" don't get you very far, so you still need a translation
dictionary for some things.

I use the French-English version of this dictionary on my iPod Touch:

http://www.ultralingua.com/

It's *fabulous* for its convenience, and it rarely leaves me hanging.

Google translate is interesting and useful:

http://translate.google.com/

It uses statistical methods rather than a rule-based approach. Never
perfect, but another good tool.

* Alliance Française --

Alliance Française is a world-wide network of French language and
cultural centers. I had never heard of it until a little over a year
ago when I discovered that there's an Alliance Française about 1km
from my home. My local AF offers classes for two hours once a week in
two-month blocks. There are Alliances Françaises in many states
across the U.S.:

http://www.alliance-us.org/en/Directory.aspx

I take a role-playing class, and it's a lot of fun.

[Charles Coldwell]

On Nov 2, 2009, at 1:20 AM, Greg Merritt wrote:

> * Reading --
>
> Ok, this is pretty easy with the Web. Just find Web sites that have
> stuff you want to read. News, sports, bike forums, history, anything
> on fr.wikipedia.org, and on and on. Books are as good as ever, too.
> ;)

I just finished reading 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, untranslated.
I spent a lot of time in my dictionary, but it definitely improved my
ichthyological vocabulary. I think Jules Verne must have been paid
by the word. But the next time I'm ordering seafood in France, I'll
be ready.

Chip

--

Charles M. Coldwell, W1CMC
"Turn on, log in, tune out"
Somerville, Massachusetts, New England (FN42kj)

GPG ID: 852E052F
GPG FPR: 77E5 2B51 4907 F08A 7E92 DE80 AFA9 9A8F 852E 052F

[cris.co...@gmail.com]

On Nov 2, 1:20 am, Greg Merritt <greg.merr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Watch once with subtitles off to force yourself to focus, then watch
> again with subtitles on.  (Don't miss the Paris-Brest reference in
> Amélie -- it didn't make it into the subtitles!!)

I'm particularly fond of this approach; it's also great for picking up
slang, which typically doesn't make it into formal education classes.
Though, personally, I've gotten more mileage out of watching films
that I already own, where I am familiar with the script, than with
rentals. Watching Anglophone films with a French dubbing track does
feel awkward but it's not bad if you have it on in the background in a
room while you're focusing on other things.

> Ok, so maybe that's just reading, but I have simply fallen in love with Astérix:
>

> http://asterix.comhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterixhttp://asterix.fr/http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix

>
> (Astérix doesn't seem to be as well-known in the U.S as in the rest of
> the world.  I talked to someone who's read Astérix in French, English,
> German, and her native Serbian, and she says that they're all funny
> EXCEPT for the English translations.)

Oh, I think that's terribly unfair. I grew up reading the Asterix
books (the English translations were fairly easy to get in Manila) and
I thought that they were hilarious. I do agree that the translations
misses a lot of nuance in the original, but they're still pretty
good. I somewhat hesitate at recommending reading the originals as a
study method for a novice, since the language is so specific and
particular. It'd be like getting a novice ESL student to follow a
Monty Python sketch. But the English comics are still a great,
informal glimpse into 60s French pop culture.

> * Computer / device default language

I have a GPS unit for the car that comes with a French language mode.
That's been generally handy for remembering one's droit from gauche,
and we make a habit of toggling it over whenever we go back to Canada
-- which brings me to one tip:

Visit Quebec

For air or train fare that is far less than what you'd pay for
crossing the Atlantic, you can place yourself in a francophone city
with some great attractions and magnificent riding territory. In the
summer, Montreal goes wild with festivals and there's hardly a day in
the city that isn't hosting something notable. Plus there are still
enough English speakers around that you won't feel like you've
completely plunged into the deep end of the pool. Granted, Quebecois
French isn't quite proper, but so long as you don't linger long enough
for your ouis to become ouays you should be ok.

-- cris

[Leslie Tierstein]

Slightly off-topic, but please don't say this in front of a Quebecois (or a linguist):

>> Granted, Quebecois French isn't quite proper.

That's like saying American English (or Australian English or ...) isn't quite proper and is really very insulting.

What's correct is that Quebecois has a different set of rules (pronunciation, grammar, synatax and vocabulary) than Ile de France French. It is still "French", but a recognized regional variant. Recognized, at least by the Canadians!

Leslie "not Quebecoise but a linguist" Tierstein

[Charles Coldwell]

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Leslie Tierstein
<ltier...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Slightly off-topic, but please don't say this in front of a Quebecois (or a linguist):
>
>>> Granted, Quebecois French isn't quite proper.
>
> That's like saying American English (or Australian English or ...) isn't quite proper and is really very insulting.

Using the "locale" command on Unix, and omitting differences only in
character set, I find 15 accepted variations of English:

en_AU
en_BW
en_CA
en_DK
en_GB
en_HK
en_IE
en_IN
en_NZ
en_PH
en_SG
en_US
en_ZA
en_ZW

For those unfamiliar with geographical TLDs, those are Australia,
Botswana, Canada, Denmark(!), Great Britain, Hong Kong, Ireland,
India, New Zealand, Philippines, Singapore, United States, South
Africa, and Zimbabwe. For French, I find only five

fr_BE
fr_CA
fr_CH
fr_FR
fr_LU

Belgium, Canada, Switzerland, France and Luxembourg.

I'm not sure who defines these locales, BTW.

Chip

--
Charles M. Coldwell, W1CMC
"Turn on, log in, tune out"

Winchester, Massachusetts, New England (FN42kk)

[Cris Concepcion]

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Leslie Tierstein <ltier...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Slightly off-topic, but please don't say this in front of a Quebecois (or a linguist):

>> Granted, Quebecois French isn't quite proper.

That's like saying American English (or Australian English or ...) isn't quite proper and is really very insulting.

No insult intended, Leslie.  I agree that Quebec and Acadian French are indeed legitimate variants on Metropolitan French, but Quebecois French still sounds different to Continental French ears; much the same way that Americans and Brits can call themselves two people separated by a common language.  It's not an insult to point out that a Texan's English might not sound proper to the ears of a Londoner ... it's a recognition of that difference.

 

I remember being in Paris in 2007 for PBP and overhearing a conversation on a bus between a couple of locals giving a twenty-year old tourist directions to Montmartre, the entire conversation happened in French, and at the end the locals asked the fellow where he was from, and when he said Quebec City, they were genuinely impressed and surprised, saying without a hint of malice that his French was really quite good.  Like there was a reason for why it shouldn't be so.

 

Much the same way if a non-English speaker might be planning a trip to London, I might suggest a trip to the States if it's convenient for them, but I'd still mention that the American habit for spelling honour without the U or thinking that 20 degrees is a cold day isn't something transferrable to England.  That is a much fairer approach, I think, than obscuring the differences and keeping ignorant of the vibrant evolutions in regional cultures.

[Don Bennett]

I'd put a plug in for the program "French in Action" -
http://www.learner.org/resources/series83.html . (Free streaming
video)

You might also find it on a local PBS station, or on DVD at your local library.

From http://fiafans.org/about/:

Says John Walker on the Cool Tools website “Simply by watching this
series of videos through two times, you could parachute into Abidjan
and get along in day to day life from the moment you hit the ground.
It’s that good. Really.”

Don

[Patrick Shea]

You can also see if your local library subscribes to the Rosetta Stone language learning database. Easily the most popular database in the library where I work (San Francisco Public) and all you need is a library card. It's free! Personally, I just want to learn how to say, "I know it is 3am on a Thursday; can you kindly explain why I am riding my bicycle?"

Cheers,

Patrick Shea

SFPL

[WillemJ]

As someone who speaks five languages (including French) and can read
another two, I would like to add that formal grammar study is a very
efficient way to get to know a language. DVD's, films, tv programs
etc are all very useful, but only if you also study the grammar.
French grammar is easy, moreover, as it is so artificially systematic.
Willem

On Nov 2, 7:47 pm, Don Bennett <d...@donbennett.org> wrote:
> I'd put a plug in for the program "French in Action" -http://www.learner.org/resources/series83.html. (Free streaming

> video)
>
> You might also find it on a local PBS station, or on DVD at your local library.
>

> Fromhttp://fiafans.org/about/:

>
> Says John Walker on the Cool Tools website “Simply by watching this
> series of videos through two times, you could parachute  into Abidjan
> and get along in day to day life from the moment you hit the ground.
> It’s that good. Really.”
>
> Don
>

> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Greg Merritt <greg.merr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > A recent post to this list (DrCodfish, pjinoakvi...@comcast.net)

> > suggested that folks interested in PBP could spend time now practicing
> > French.
>
> > I took French in high school, but that was it.  Several years ago I
> > decided that it was pretty silly to be "sort of familiar" with French,
> > so I decided to start doing at least a little something in French most
> > days on a very regular basis.
>
> > Over time, I've found a lot of easy and fun ways to do this.  Here are
> > some of them below.  Maybe others who are trying to improve their
> > French will enjoy some of these, too.
>
> > Does anyone else have resources that they like?
>
> > -Greg
>
> > * DVDs --
>
> > Watch once with subtitles off to force yourself to focus, then watch
> > again with subtitles on.  (Don't miss the Paris-Brest reference in
> > Amélie -- it didn't make it into the subtitles!!)
>
> > If you get a $10/month Netflix subscription, you can check out one
> > disk at a time, but you can also watch many movies streaming instantly
> > on demand.  You can't turn off the subtitles in the streaming movies,
> > however.
>
> > Here is the well-hidden link to the Netflix catalog by genre,
> > including language categories, as well as a link to all of their
> > French-language films:
>
> >http://www.netflix.com/AllGenres

> >http://www.netflix.com/SubGenre/Foreign_Languages/2620/French_Languag...

[Chris Hanson]

Patrick,

How about "Do you know where I can get a tube of JB Weld?"

Chris"In Paris for PBP without a bike to ride"Hanson

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Shea
Sent: Nov 2, 2009 2:06 PM
To: d...@donbennett.org
Cc: randon , Greg Merritt
Subject: [Randon] Re: Par Lay Voo?

You can also see if your local library subscribes to the Rosetta Stone language learning database. Easily the most popular database in the library where I work (San Francisco Public) and all you need is a library card. It's free! Personally, I just want to learn how to say, "I know it is 3am on a Thursday; can you kindly explain why I am riding my bicycle?"

Cheers,

Patrick Shea

SFPL

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Don Bennett <d...@donbennett.org> wrote:

I'd put a plug in for the program "French in Action" -

http://www.learner.org/resources/series83.html . (Free streaming

video)

You might also find it on a local PBS station, or on DVD at your local library.

From http://fiafans.org/about/:

Says John Walker on the Cool Tools website “Simply by watching this
series of videos through two times, you could parachute  into Abidjan
and get along in day to day life from the moment you hit the ground.
It’s that good. Really.”

Don

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Greg Merritt <greg.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A recent post to this list (DrCodfish, pjinoa...@comcast.net)

> suggested that folks interested in PBP could spend time now practicing
> French.
>
> I took French in high school, but that was it.  Several years ago I
> decided that it was pretty silly to be "sort of familiar" with French,
> so I decided to start doing at least a little something in French most
> days on a very regular basis.
>
> Over time, I've found a lot of easy and fun ways to do this.  Here are
> some of them below.  Maybe others who are trying to improve their
> French will enjoy some of these, too.
>
> Does anyone else have resources that they like?
>
> -Greg
>
>
> * DVDs --
>
> Watch once with subtitles off to force yourself to focus, then watch
> again with subtitles on.  (Don't miss the Paris-Brest reference in
> Amélie -- it didn't make it into the subtitles!!)
>
> If you get a $10/month Netflix subscription, you can check out one
> disk at a time, but you can also watch many movies streaming instantly
> on demand.  You can't turn off the subtitles in the streaming movies,
> however.
>
> Here is the well-hidden link to the Netflix catalog by genre,
> including language categories, as well as a link to all of their
> French-language films:
>
> http://www.netflix.com/AllGenres

> http://www.netflix.com/SubGenre/Foreign_Languages/2620/French_Language/2554?gpgid=2514