Liquid nutrition & Re: Recovery During 1200Ks Re: [Randon] Digest for randon@googlegroups.com - 17 Messages in 4 Topics
John Hughes
I'm copying the group because you ask a good question. Basically you want lots of carbs; how you get them is a matter of what's available and what you like.
When I was riding 1200s I used Ensure before my sleep breaks and again for breakfast before heading out. There's no performance advantage to Ensure - Boost, Perpeteum, etc. all work as well - as does real food! Liquid food, especially premixed, is more convenient.
However, if it works logistically some riders have a pizza delivered while showering! A good friend has an extra burrito at the last control before the sleep break! Another friend will raid the motel breakfast bar in the wee hours and eat cereal.
Depending on the course and availability of supplies you might also be able to pick up some extra food at the last control before the sleep break and then in the last hour before you get there eat it.
Regarding sleep cycles I wouldn't base yours on what happens the night before an event - that may be related to excitement, etc. What happens on a normal night?
Cheers,
John
Hi, John,
Any comments on Ensure as a way to get that thousand calories?
On my recent 600 I drank three bottles of Ensure before lying down for my sleep. Woke up an hour later feeling fairly ready to go but decided to get more sleep, drank another bottle of Ensure, then slept another hour. When I woke up the second time I decided to sleep some more, but then realized that my bladder had other plans so I got up. Unfortunately, I didn't eat a good breakfast before leaving with the consequence that I never felt really on top of eating for most of the day.
I seem to have a sleep cycle that's closer to an hour long, I think. On nights before brevets, it's not unusual to wake up several times, and these are usually at multiples of hour-long intervals.
Best,
Nick
On Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:02:01 AM UTC-4, John Hughes wrote:Dave,
Excellent question on recovery during a staged 1200K. Here's what I learned on RAAM and multiple 1200Ks.Here are several helpful articles:
- You should consume a bolus of about 1000 calories before your sleep break. It's the only recovery time that you have to digest it. Emphasize carbohydrate. So-called recovery drinks are no better than real food.
- Try to sleep for a multiple of full sleep cycles. The normal sleep cycle is 90 minutes, but they vary be individual. If you try to wake up before the end of a sleep cycle you will be extremely fuzzy and have a hard time getting going. You can estimate the length of your sleep cycle on a normal night by noting when you fall asleep, when you wake up (perhaps to urinate) and then dividing. For example, if you sleep for 5 hours, divide by 3, your sleep cycle is around 100 minutes.
- If you have time without compromising your sleep break, stretch or give yourself a massage.
- Eat breakfast as you leave the sleep stop. Don't spend time sitting around eating but grab food (solid or liquid) that you can eat rolling out.
Over the 24-hours of a 1200K calories consumed should equal calories expended: http://www.coach-hughes.com/resources/calories.html
Multiple recovery strategies can help including elevating the legs, stretching, icing and sel-massage: http://www.coach-hughes.com/resources/recovery.html
Cheers,
John
www.coach-hughes-com
--
Cheers,
John Hughes
www.coach-hughes.com
PO Box 18028
Boulder, CO 80308-1028
Jim House
Nick and John,
I have been following this topic and it is great. I noticed that NO ONE mentioned eating on the bike to sleep better. Most of my intake happens on the bike. I have found items that work well for me and I always ship more of the same items in the drop bag – pre selected into a gallon zip lock to be picked up and taken with me when I leave the control. I dump off the uneaten items at the same time. This helps me tune the packing list for the next event – see what I did not eat and cut back on quantities of that item and add more items that were totally consumed and not dumped.
Here are my winners
I pre load Cytomax into 2 inch by 3 inch zip lock bags - I try to have one bag for each 2 hours in the section between drop bags – I have 5 flavors that I like and try to keep a mix of all flavors so you do not burn out on one flavor
Halloween size (very small – two bites) Pay Day bars – lots of salt
Planter Peanuts individual size bags – Cashew and the best – and the mixed nuts are very good
I take one Cliff bar while it is in the bag with the backside of a butter knife I press down hard the long way – split in half – then turn and press down two more times to make six precut chunks in the bag – cut off the top of the bag with scissors wrap with a rubber band – pull one chunk and eat at will
Sun Maid Golden raisins and regular in the one ounce box
And the new winner Emerald Breakfast on the go – 7.5 OZ packs of nuts and dried fruit – great tasting anytime
As well some biking specific standards
Cliff Shot Blocks – love Margarita flavor – 210 grams of sodium
Honey Stinger Waffle
And Hammer Endurolytes
I have found for me that eating on the bike makes me sleep better and longer at the controls.
This correlation may not work for you but when I discovered to stuff myself as I am moving somehow makes me sleep better.
Jim House
Maumee, OH
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John Hughes
Eating on the bike is very important. Recent research shows that you can digest up to 360 calories / hour of * mixed* carbohydrates (glucose, sucrose, fructose, maltodextrin) plus some protein and fat.
However even at rando paces you are burning more per hour so you need to make up the deficit somehow, hence the importance of eating before the sleep break.
For more see Susan Barr's article on eating for multiday events
http://www.coach-hughes.com/resources/calories.html
Cheers,
John
Nick and John,
I have been following this topic and it is great. I noticed that NO ONE mentioned eating on the bike to sleep better. Most of my intake happens on the bike. I have found items that work well for me and I always ship more of the same items in the drop bag – pre selected into a gallon zip lock to be picked up and taken with me when I leave the control. I dump off the uneaten items at the same time. This helps me tune the packing list for the next event – see what I did not eat and cut back on quantities of that item and add more items that were totally consumed and not dumped.
Here are my winners
I pre load Cytomax into 2 inch by 3 inch zip lock bags - I try to have one bag for each 2 hours in the section between drop bags – I have 5 flavors that I like and try to keep a mix of all flavors so you do not burn out on one flavor
Halloween size (very small – two bites) Pay Day bars – lots of salt
Planter Peanuts individual size bags – Cashew and the best – and the mixed nuts are very good
I take one Cliff bar while it is in the bag with the backside of a butter knife I press down hard the long way – split in half – then turn and press down two more times to make six precut chunks in the bag – cut off the top of the bag with scissors wrap with a rubber band – pull one chunk and eat at will
Sun Maid Golden raisins and regular in the one ounce box
And the new winner Emerald Breakfast on the go – 7.5 OZ packs of nuts and dried fruit – great tasting anytime
As well some biking specific standards
Cliff Shot Blocks – love Margarita flavor – 210 grams of sodium
Honey Stinger Waffle
And Hammer Endurolytes
I have found for me that eating on the bike makes me sleep better and longer at the controls.
This correlation may not work for you but when I discovered to stuff myself as I am moving somehow makes me sleep better.
Jim House
Maumee, OH
From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hughes
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 7:20 PM
To: NickBull
Cc: randon
Subject: Liquid nutrition & Re: Recovery During 1200Ks Re: [Randon] Digest for ran...@googlegroups.com - 17 Messages in 4 Topics
Nick,
--
thirty-six
consumption before the experts persuaded the newcomers that they
needed to buy products of psuedo-science. For all day stamina a rider
should maximise his (and her) fat intake at all times and protein
generally while off the bike at least 3 times a day. Carbs in the
form of fruit and veg are eaten to assist the consumption of the fat,
they are the catalyst for faster burning of animal fats. Nut oils
(coconut especially) may be utilised directly. Many athletes cannot
utilise 100% carb feed, half of it is laid down as fat and much energy
is also consumed in the process.
Don't believe the hype, what works for the individual, the individual
has to find, it is unlikely to be in sugars and likely to be in fats.
On Jun 15, 5:20 pm, John Hughes <coachjohnhug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Eating on the bike is very important. Recent research shows that you can
> digest up to 360 calories / hour of * mixed* carbohydrates (glucose,
> sucrose, fructose, maltodextrin) plus some protein and fat.
>
> However even at rando paces you are burning more per hour so you need to
> make up the deficit somehow, hence the importance of eating before the
> sleep break.
>
> For more see Susan Barr's article on eating for multiday events
>
> http://www.coach-hughes.com/resources/calories.html
>
> Cheers,
> John
> On Jun 15, 2012 8:29 AM, "Jim House" <jho...@ccsol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > ** **
> > I have been following this topic and it is great. I noticed that NO ONE
> > mentioned eating on the bike to sleep better. Most of my intake happens on
> > the bike. I have found items that work well for me and I always ship more
> > of the same items in the drop bag – pre selected into a gallon zip lock to
> > be picked up and taken with me when I leave the control. I dump off the
> > uneaten items at the same time. This helps me tune the packing list for
> > the next event – see what I did not eat and cut back on quantities of that
>
> > ** **
>
> > Here are my winners****
> > I pre load Cytomax into 2 inch by 3 inch zip lock bags - I try to have
> > one bag for each 2 hours in the section between drop bags – I have 5
> > flavors that I like and try to keep a mix of all flavors so you do not burn
>
> > Halloween size (very small – two bites) Pay Day bars – lots of salt****
> > Planter Peanuts individual size bags – Cashew and the best – and the mixed
> > I take one Cliff bar while it is in the bag with the backside of a butter
> > knife I press down hard the long way – split in half – then turn and press
> > down two more times to make six precut chunks in the bag – cut off the top
> > of the bag with scissors wrap with a rubber band – pull one chunk and eat
>
> > Sun Maid Golden raisins and regular in the one ounce box****
> > And the new winner Emerald Breakfast on the go – 7.5 OZ packs of nuts and
>
> > As well some biking specific standards****
>
> > Cliff Shot Blocks – love Margarita flavor – 210 grams of sodium****
>
> > Honey Stinger Waffle****
>
> > And Hammer Endurolytes ****
>
> > ** **
> > I have found for me that eating on the bike makes me sleep better and
> > This correlation may not work for you but when I discovered to stuff
>
> > ** **
>
> > Jim House****
>
> > Maumee, OH ****
>
> > ** **
>
> > ** **
>
> > *From:* ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] *On
> > Behalf Of *John Hughes
> > *Sent:* Thursday, June 14, 2012 7:20 PM
> > *To:* NickBull
> > *Cc:* randon
> > *Subject:* Liquid nutrition & Re: Recovery During 1200Ks Re: [Randon]
> > Digest for ran...@googlegroups.com - 17 Messages in 4 Topics****
>
> > ** **
> > Nick,
>
> > I'm copying the group because you ask a good question. Basically you want
> > lots of carbs; how you get them is a matter of what's available and what
> > you like.
>
> > When I was riding 1200s I used Ensure before my sleep breaks and again for
> > breakfast before heading out. There's no performance advantage to Ensure -
> > Boost, Perpeteum, etc. all work as well - as does real food! Liquid food,
> > especially premixed, is more convenient.
>
> > However, if it works logistically some riders have a pizza delivered while
> > showering! A good friend has an extra burrito at the last control before
> > the sleep break! Another friend will raid the motel breakfast bar in the
> > wee hours and eat cereal.
>
> > Depending on the course and availability of supplies you might also be
> > able to pick up some extra food at the last control before the sleep break
> > and then in the last hour before you get there eat it.
>
> > Regarding sleep cycles I wouldn't base yours on what happens the night
> > before an event - that may be related to excitement, etc. What happens on
> > a normal night?
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 12:32 PM, NickBull <nick.bike.b...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:****
> > Hi, John,
>
> > Any comments on Ensure as a way to get that thousand calories?
>
> > On my recent 600 I drank three bottles of Ensure before lying down for my
> > sleep. Woke up an hour later feeling fairly ready to go but decided to get
> > more sleep, drank another bottle of Ensure, then slept another hour. When
> > I woke up the second time I decided to sleep some more, but then realized
> > that my bladder had other plans so I got up. Unfortunately, I didn't eat a
> > good breakfast before leaving with the consequence that I never felt really
> > on top of eating for most of the day.
>
> > I seem to have a sleep cycle that's closer to an hour long, I think. On
> > nights before brevets, it's not unusual to wake up several times, and these
> > are usually at multiples of hour-long intervals.
>
> > Best,
>
>
> > On Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:02:01 AM UTC-4, John Hughes wrote:****
> > Dave,
>
> > Excellent question on recovery during a staged 1200K. Here's what I
>
> > - You should consume a bolus of about 1000 calories before your sleep
> > carbohydrate. So-called recovery drinks are no better than real food.
> > - Try to sleep for a multiple of full sleep cycles. The normal sleep
> > before the end of a sleep cycle you will be extremely fuzzy and have a hard
> > time getting going. You can estimate the length of your sleep cycle on a
> > normal night by noting when you fall asleep, when you wake up (perhaps to
> > urinate) and then dividing. For example, if you sleep for 5 hours, divide
> > - If you have time without compromising your sleep break, stretch or
> > give yourself a massage.****
> > - Eat breakfast as you leave the sleep stop. Don't spend time sitting
> > Here are several helpful articles:
>
> > Over the 24-hours of a 1200K calories consumed should equal calories
> > expended: http://www.coach-hughes.com/resources/calories.html
>
> > Multiple recovery strategies can help including elevating the legs,
> > stretching, icing and sel-massage:
> >http://www.coach-hughes.com/resources/recovery.html
>
> > Cheers,
> > John
> >www.coach-hughes-com
>
> > Boulder, CO 80308-1028****
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "randon" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to ran...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > randon+un...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at