Brevets etc. what are they?

[thirty-six]

Organised ride?
Any route?
Any speed?
Where to rest, eat, wash, sleep?
What distance?

Some explanations please. I know people who do these things but not
know precisely what they are doing or what they get out of it. I
understand they are doing long distance rides with an overnight stop
sometimes. Does the knowledge that there are others doing the same
route mean for a more satisfying experience?

[dau...@gmail.com]

There's a nice introduction on the Randonneurs USA website: http://www.rusa.org/faq1.html

I'm sure there's something similar on Audax UK's site.

The whole point is the other people--the camaraderie and friendship of other randonneurs is just wonderful. Try it and see!

Dave

[WMdeR]

Dear Sir/Madam,

> Some explanations please. I know people who do these things but not
> know precisely what they are doing or what they get out of it.

Randonneuring is non-competitive, minimally-supported long-distance
self-propelled sport. Most folks use bicycles.

Beyond that, it is a big tent, and there are a lot of different kind
of events and motivations for riders. A randonnée can be just a
long, athletic ramble on the bike, but most folks discussing
Randonneuring (or Audax) in English are referring to riding Brevets,
Permanents, or Grand Randonnées. To be precise, Audax is a bit
different than Randonneuring, but please see the references at the end
of the text for that detail.

Brevets are rides of specified routes over specified distances held at
a specified time, sanctioned by the national organization and
(sometimes) by the original Randonneuring club, the Audax Club
Parisien. They range from 200Km to 1000Km.

Populaires are open rides, usually shorter distance (100-150Km) than
brevet-length (200Km+) that are done in the brevet format. They're an
ideal opportunity to test the waters before joining your local
Randonneuring club and national organization (in my case, those are
Rocky Mountain Cycling Club and Randonneurs USA).

Each rider is on his/her own, and is free to ride the course as fast
as they wish (<<Allure Libre>>), take breaks whenever, and take pace
with anyone else also riding the event. The clock never stops, and
there are time limits (minimum (30kph average) and maximum (15kph
average) ) which must be met at contrôle (hereafter "checkpoint")
locations. Outside support is limited to varying degrees by the
rules, but follow cars and broom/SAG wagons are always contrary to the
spirit of the sport, and may be against the rules. Personalized
support is always limited to the checkpoints, and is usually
discouraged in the spirit of self-sufficiency. The rider is to find
what s/he needs for food, support, sleep, and services along the way.

Permanents are (generally) rides over specified routes held at a time
agreed to by the rider(s) and organizer.

Grand Randonnées are brevets of 1200Km or longer, and are sanctioned
by the Randonneurs Mondiaux (RM) rather than the ACP.

Passage over the route is verified using a contrôle card, which must
be signed and stamped at specified locations (checkpoints) to make
sure the entire route was ridden within the time limits.

The ride is timed, but there are only two kinds of starters: those
who successfully finish within the time limits, and those who don't.
There is no special recognition for finishing faster, other than
(perhaps) personal satisfaction. There are various awards for
distance covered, etc, on an annual basis which vary from club to
club. The UK is known for having a wide variety of programs and an
active organization.

Cooperation with others is one of the joys of randonneuring, and
camaraderie one of its hallmarks.

Come on out and try one. Assuming you can get 'round a 75mi course in
under eight hours, come out for a Populaire. Then you'll know why
we're all out here!

A few starting points online:

General:
http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/introduction/intr_txt.html
http://www.rusa.org/faq1.html
http://www.seattlerandonneur.org/info/SIR_rando_intro.html

UK Specific Content:
http://www.aukweb.net/handbook/handbook.pdf

Cheers,

Will

William M. deRosset
RUSA 2401
Fort Collins, CO USA

On Nov 15, 3:10 pm, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:

[WMdeR]

>
> The ride is timed, but there are only two kinds of starters:  those
> who successfully finish within the time limits, and those who don't.
> There is no special recognition for finishing faster, other than
> (perhaps) personal satisfaction.  There are various awards for
> distance covered, etc, on an annual basis which vary from club to
> club.  The UK is known for having a wide variety of programs and an
> active organization.

Hi, All,

I should have added that there are ex-officio recognitions of pace at
timed randonneuring events via the Cyclos Montagnards, which
recognizes brevet series (200, 300, 400, and 600Km events) ridden at
paces corresponding to 80%, 70% and 60% of the maximum allowable time.

They primarily record and publicize 24 hour challenge rides, which are
designed by the challenge rider to conform to the rules outlined at
the site.

www.cyclosmontagnards.org


Best Regards,

[thirty-six]

Thanks for the explanations, but I just dont seem to be able to take
it in. It's an odd concept, not racing and not touring, seems more
like work. When needing to do long training rides(a good few years
back) in preperation for racing, every now and again, the team would
abandon the ride and use the day for football or swimming or
sightseeing or a picnic. There would just be a general concensus that
we should do something else so we didnt't bore each other. I dont
suppose this would apply. Perhaps I've just had my fill of the need
to belong and be controlled and so am quite happy without having to
ride an event. The 75 miles in 8 hours is acceptable although I
generally dont like to be on a bike for much over a couple of hours a
day (looks like I need a motorbike). It seems I've lost the desire to
ride long distances and am happy squandering my free time on being
free.

[Greg Merritt]

Le Nov 15, 2009 à 18:18, thirty-six <thirt...@live.co.uk> a écrit :

> The 75 miles in 8 hours is acceptable although I
> generally dont like to be on a bike for much over a couple of hours a
> day (looks like I need a motorbike). It seems I've lost the desire to
> ride long distances and am happy squandering my free time on being
> free.

Not everybody likes to do everything.

Have fun pursuing the things you like to do, and don't waste your time
doing things you don't like!

-Greg

[V Ricks]

Hello,

By now you will probably have gotten (offlist and on-list) some good answers to the definitional questions you're posing.  But the "deeper" questions about The Meaning of It All sound like the ones that you're most interested in getting an answer to.

Everyone on this list can give you their own (often shifting) list of motives, reasons, and goals for riding brevets.  But, really -- and I don't mean this sarcastically or rudely at all, so I hope that it doesn't come across that way -- if it's the people you know whose behavior is mystifying to you, then have you started by asking THEM what they get out of it?  Have you not felt able to ask them, or maybe not felt that you could make heads or tails of their answers, or maybe just wanted to see who else shares their apparent illness, or...?

In any case, I hope that you'll feel encouraged to ride whatever distances at whatever paces and in pursuit of whatever (ethical) goals you like!

-Vance Ricks

[littlecirclesvt.com :: mike beganyi]

Want to share that secret wheel building technique here on the Rando
list?
I hear your tone, delivery, and general attitude went over quite well
on the Bicycle Lifestyle list.


I suggest maybe finding some 'free time' where you aren't posting to
internet e-lists and forums... perhaps that would make you a bit more
'free' to ride your bike, your scooter, play football with your
friends... whatever.

This list is focused on long distance, organized riding.
There's tons of info out there on what its all about, and if you are
serious, people here are always willing to chat, email, and help.


But please, troll somewhere else.

[Ian Hennessey]

WMdeR wrote:
> Randonneuring is non-competitive, minimally-supported long-distance
> self-propelled sport. Most folks use bicycles.

That's a good definition. I have randonneed on foot (the GR20 in Corsica
for example) as well as on a bike - and on a bike both within audax
(BRM) rules and 'freestyle', a.k.a. long-distance touring.

The bicycle is such a versatile machine that it seems a shame to use it
for just one kind of event.

IanH
www.ukcyclist.co.uk

[WMdeR]

Dear sir,

> Thanks for the explanations, but I just dont seem to be able to take
> it in. It's an odd concept, not racing and not touring, seems more
> like work.

Well, different strokes for different folks.

Cheers,

Will

WMdeRosset
RUSA 2401

[thirty-six]

> By now you will probably have gotten (offlist and on-list) some good
> answers to the definitional questions you're posing.  But the "deeper"
> questions about The Meaning of It All sound like the ones that you're
> most interested in getting an answer to.

Yep.

> Everyone on this list can give you their own (often shifting) list of
> motives, reasons, and goals for riding brevets. But, really -- and I
> don't mean this sarcastically or rudely at all, so I hope that it
> doesn't come across that way -- if it's the people you know whose
> behavior is mystifying to you, then have you started by asking THEM what
> they get out of it?  Have you not felt able to ask them, or maybe not
> felt that you could make heads or tails of their answers, or maybe just
> wanted to see who else shares their apparent illness, or...?

I have asked and as you say, their 'reasons' change without cause and
I'm wondering if there is a desire that they have not identified, yet
are trying to validate their participation with their 'reasons'.

>
> In any case, I hope that you'll feel encouraged to ride whatever
> distances at whatever paces and in pursuit of whatever (ethical) goals
> you like!
>

I remain supportive to my friends who participate and will assist in
checking and preparing a bike, but that is all my active involvement
at present. My personal intrest in long distance riding remains, its
just I dont have the desire to personally take on the effort without
some more obvious reward.

[thirty-six]

On 16 Nov, 15:18, Jan Heine <hein...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >  > Thanks for the explanations, but I just dont seem to be able to take
> >>  it in.  It's an odd concept, not racing and not touring, seems more
> >  > like work.
>

> Some people climb mountains. When they get to the top, they usually
> don't have much time to spend there. So they turn around and go back
> down. Yet they feel a sense of achievement for having climbed the
> mountain. And they have enjoyed the camaraderie of their team and the
> views along the way.
>
> A brevet is sort of like a mountain climb. You try to meet a
> challenge, you get to ride with nice people toward a common goal, and
> you get to enjoy the views along the way. For some, that sounds like
> work, for others, it sounds like fun.


Thanks for the simplification. It seems that some need to add
challenges to their life (to balance up their stress level) while
others don't. Would I be correct in thinking that participating in
a randndoneur or brevet is more mentally stressful than other cycling
disciplines?

[V Ricks]

Well, no, I DIDN'T say that their/our reasons change "without cause", so if I gave you that impression then I made a mistake.  And I'm not sure why you are putting the word "reasons" in scare quotes (or as the English say, "inverted commas") in the first place...  Sometimes, when people spend more time at something, their reasons for continuing to do it are almost certainly going to differ from what they were initially, but that doesn't mean that there's something false or dishonest or illusory about the initial reasons or the later ones!

Your randonneuring friends have given you their reasons, and you don't find those reasons compelling or even understandable, so you're asking, "But why are you -really- doing it?"  And I guess that you, and they, and we, could iterate that exchange several more times.  Yes, one possibility is that they're wittingly or unwittingly hiding the "real" reason from you, on fear of banishment from the Siblinghood of Randonneurs.  But another possibility is that they actually have told your their reasons (as best they can) and you just don't believe that that's all that there could be to the story.

At that point, it's probably time to realize that it's a de gustibus dispute, and to think about all of your personal tastes, interests, and hobbies whose appeal you might have difficulty explaining to your friends.  Meantime, it's good to hear that you can be a supportive-if-slightly-baffled friend, as I'm sure others are to you!


-Vance Ricks

[thirty-six]

On 16 Nov, 15:56, Jan Heine <hein...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I would not be surprised if others found it stressful to worry about
> their bike breaking, their body developing a problem, or not making
> the next control in time. (I try to eliminate those worries before
> the start.)

I was actually thinking of preparation as well as the ride itself. I
too, find riding mentally relaxing, where once I rode more for the
workout and general adaptations to the physical stress.

>
> It is important to realize that randonneuring is a big tent. People
> participate with very different goals. For some, the challenge lies
> in making the time cut. For others, it lies in having a good ride -
> which can be defined many ways - because they know that they are
> likely to finish with plenty of time to spare.

So the principle reason for riding is the challenge, however that
presents itself to the individual is what you are saying? The
challenge to have a good ride: I think that a good ride is one that
does not present challenges, at least nothing siggnificant.

>
> Finally, remember that this is a hobby. Even if you don't make the
> time cut, or DNF a brevet, your family still will be fed... No need
> to fret about things that are supposed to be enjoyable.

How is abandoning without a mechanical thought of? Do riders feel
compelled to give some reason (physiological or bicycle related) for
not finishing when they dont feel like doing the ride on the day for
reasons best kept to themselves?

[littlecirclesvt.com :: mike beganyi]

Folks, 36 is trolling.
This is how a nice little thread on the BL list got everyone in a
twitter, and 36 was eventually ousted from the group.

Let it go.
Don't feed the troll.

If you want to carry on with him / her / it - maybe take it off list?

[Greg Merritt]

> so you're asking, "But why are you -really- doing it?"

Am I the only one truly willing to break the silence?

Here's the real reason we all do it, all of us: the shiny medals.

Glad to get that off my chest!

-Greg

[Greg Merritt]

Le Nov 16, 2009 à 8:39, thirty-six <thirt...@live.co.uk> a écrit :

> How is abandoning without a mechanical thought of? Do riders feel
> compelled to give some reason (physiological or bicycle related) for
> not finishing when they dont feel like doing the ride on the day for
> reasons best kept to themselves?

Since we're all of one mind, who is willing to look up the standard,
universal true response from the secret handbook and post it to the
list?

It might be quicker to just scan it and post the image.

Shouldn't this all be in a FAQ somewhere?

-Greg, hook, line & sinkered by a troll on a Monday morning.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 09:02 -0800, littlecirclesvt.com :: mike beganyi
wrote:

> Folks, 36 is trolling.
> This is how a nice little thread on the BL list got everyone in a
> twitter, and 36 was eventually ousted from the group.
>
> Let it go.
> Don't feed the troll.

I came to that conclusion myself.

[thirty-six]

Boy scouts? what, really?

[Peter Leiss]

Time to 86 36

[thirty-six]

Randoneuring attracts avaricious people satisfied by certification.

[Rob Hawks]

sar·chasm ('sär-"ka-z&m) : The giant gulf (chasm) between what is said
and the person who doesn't get it.

[Tom Rosenbauer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

-Tom Rosenbauer
Eastern PA RBA

[Steve Palincsar]

If there ever was any doubt as to whether this is a troll or no, behold.

Please do not feed the troll.

[Veronica Tunucci]

Girl Scouts and no, not really.

I can ride all day and night, how about you?

Pure pleasure, and you?