I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I would share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and am by no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many years, my longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did in 2010/11. I found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but surprisingly doable. I would encourage anyone who is doubting whether they can go the longer distances to give it a try!
This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of the ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered personally. I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This saddle is new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was pretty sore by the end of the ride.
Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged just getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in a little better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter rides but had options available for some real food where none existed this ride.
New to me for this ride:
Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted for several days after the ride.
Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle of the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a 1000-1200K sometime.
Ted,
Congratulations on finishing your first 600K!
I also use and sell<http://www.distancebiker.com/store/index.php/bike-components/saddles....>Gilles
Berthoud Saddles. I found the "wide" model very comfortable, but
ONLY after it is broken in as per the Lon Haldeman method which I have
recounted on my blog page <http://www.randorichard.com/saddle-break-in>.
I find that half way through most 600Ks (or near the end of day 1 of a
1200k) I need to start taking Ibuprofen to fend off various aches and pains
(this is addition to taking SportLegs). As long as I stay hydrated this is
a safe thing to do.
I have always maintained there are basically two big show stoppers in
randonneuring. If one can overcome these, the sport is much more enjoyable.
They are:
1. GI Issues
2. Saddle Sores
Cheers,
Rando Richard
RandoRichard.com <http://www.RandoRichard.com> (blog)
Distance Biker <http://www.DistanceBiker.com> (roadie gear)
eoGEAR <http://www.eogear.com> (rando & SUP bags)
RUSA member # 4638 & UMCA member # 5305
I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I would
> share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and am
> by no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many
> years, my longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did in
> 2010/11. I found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but
> surprisingly doable. I would encourage anyone who is doubting whether they
> can go the longer distances to give it a try!
> This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle
> route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of the
> ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
> I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter
> rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered personally.
> I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
> I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This saddle
> is new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was
> pretty sore by the end of the ride.
> Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly
> loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged
> just getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in a
> little better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter
> rides but had options available for some real food where none existed this
> ride.
> New to me for this ride:
> Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted
> for several days after the ride.
> Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle
> of the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
> Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
> All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a
> 1000-1200K sometime.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "randon" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/randon/-/LB9HV9KOURUJ.
> To post to this group, send email to randon@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> randon+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.
Seems to me like the effects of too little fat consumption possibly
heightened by dehydration. Eat good fats, butter, lard, dripping,
coconut oil, almond oil and walnut oil. This is not ride specific, it
is a life recommendation. Rich fruit cake serves on the bike. It's
'rich' because of the butter and ground almonds.
Looking at your on the hoods riding position, it seems to me you are
too stretched. By reducing the saddle to handlebar reach you should
be able to ride comfortably with bent elbows which will benefit your
hands. The spokes on the front wheel look a bit chunky and I also
wonder whether they have been made too tight.
The saddle problem is probably just the wrong saddle for you
(typically not wide enough) but make sure that the nose is level with
the top of the rear frame. Reducing the handlebar reach might help as
it will keep you in the rear of the saddle. Just go for a casual ride
and see if moving the saddle forward assists in reducing pain when it
first makes itself known.
On Jun 30, 7:44 am, Ted <fit2r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I would
> share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and am
> by no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many
> years, my longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did in
> 2010/11. I found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but
> surprisingly doable. I would encourage anyone who is doubting whether they
> can go the longer distances to give it a try!
> This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle
> route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of the
> ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
> I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter
> rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered personally.
> I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
> I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This saddle
> is new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was
> pretty sore by the end of the ride.
> Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly
> loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged
> just getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in a
> little better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter
> rides but had options available for some real food where none existed this
> ride.
> New to me for this ride:
> Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted for
> several days after the ride.
> Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle of
> the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
> Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
> All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a
> 1000-1200K sometime.
On Jun 29, 11:44 pm, Ted <fit2r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted for
> several days after the ride.
I had toe numbness that lasted for several months after my first ride
over 600k. I went to a sports medicine clinic in Seattle and had
custom orthodic inserts made for my shoes with metatarsal pads to
spread the toe bones. No problems since. I also use wider shoes for
cycling than I normally use.
For the hands, I think you should consider reducing your reach to the
bars. Also, I use gel pads under the handlebar tape available from
Specialized, Fizik, and others, to reduce the road shock. Try to move
you hands frequently to distribute the pressure.
Congratulations Ted. My buddy David Blake and I also finished our
first 600k and SR series also.
Richard just posted his write-up and pictures from his fantastic 600
Triple Loop on the front page at http://www.saltlakerandos.org/
Neither of us had any significant issues. We both ride recumbents and
are a bit slow uphill. I lost my seat pad on the way from Phoenix to
Nephi but a quick stop in Page at WalMart for a camping pad and a
utility knife. It wasn't the most comfortable solution and a heck of
a change for a 600 but I didn't have any other option.
This is rural Utah and in these small towns, I imagine most of these
are LDS - we were treated extremely well. As we progressed towards
evening, we found ourselves closing in on Big Rock Candy Mountain
which, if you know the song, was named after the song came out. US 89
runs here and the route put us on a 12-mile bicycle path. Riding
beside the Sevier River in a late daylight was pretty cool -
literally.
The worst part of the ride put us back on US 50 outside of Aurora for
another longish climb towards I-15 and Scipio. That road had a bit of
truck traffic headed to the interstate and not much of a shoulder to
ride on either. Luckily, it was dark and I was comfortable riding the
lane and could see well enough behind me to move over for traffic. As
typical in Utah, most of the uphills were two lanes up. I only recall
a few instances were we were short of traffic lanes - mostly, it was
good shoulders and wide lanes plus the scenery was beyond spectacular
on Friday.
Once we cleared the Scipio control, we headed up the access road
beside the interstate and then took a slight turn to the east where we
cycled by Yuba State Park. It was getting fairly late so the park was
quiet everyone else was asleep. We headed a bit to the north were we
enjoyed a fast ride on I-15 for about 5 miles or so. I was worried
about this part but due to the hour, traffic was low and very
respectful. I don't recall a single vehicle that failed to move over
to the other lane!
The rest of the night was kind of cold probably in the mid-50's
which felt good after the heat of the day. We had picked up another
rider who was slowly but surely getting sick. We spent that last 20
miles with her throwing up every few miles. That slowed us down a
little but there was no way I was leaving her out there by herself in
that condition. We arrived back to the hotel around 2:45 AM which gave
us enough time to sleep until 5:45. I fell asleep at 3:30 and got just
over two hours of sleep. I had sent my wife an email and told her we'd
be up at 5:45 and of course, she called at 5:48 to give us some
encouragement! We managed a good breakfast and hit the road by 7 AM.
That gave us an hour in the bank for the remaining 200-km which was
reported to be flat. The plan was simple - enjoy the last 200 k and be
safe.
As we headed out of Nehpi towards Mona, we turned a little west and
enjoyed a little canyon riding towards Goshen. As I made the turn into
Elberta, my front wheel washed out in gravel and I went down hard.
There were some Jeepers waiting on their friends and they asked if I
was ok. I laid there for a few seconds to do a quick inventory of my
feelings and pain. Nothing felt broken and as I got up, I didn't seem
any worse for wear. Nothing on the bike was broken I adjusted the
handlebars a bit and got ready to go.
Then, I noticed something was wrong with my left shoe the
quick-release buckle was broken. OK not a big deal. I fished out
some duct tape and did three wraps around my shoe. Not quite Breaking
Away but it enabled me to continue the ride!
Our goal today was essentially to cycle around Utah Lake. The west
side isn't really developed until you get up to the northwest corner
of the lake. David and I rode together a lot but for the most part, I
ended up well in front of him and would wait at major turns until he
caught up. Our route took us through a housing development so I waited
at this turn for him. In fact, I found a nice, shaded sidewalk, parked
my bike so he could see it and laid down to rest.
An older lady walked by and asked if I was ok I confirmed that I was
and she went on her way. 15 minutes later, she was back and asked me
again. I guess I looked more homeless than cyclist and she was
truly concerned. David rode up literally seconds later and the lady
relaxed knowing that we were on a event together. I was touched and
grateful for her concern though!
One thing that struck me about Utah was the economy it really seems
to be booming. Every other vehicle was a huge 4X4 puling a ski boat.
Unbelievable. For the most part, we didn't have any issues it was
just a typical summer Saturday near a major lake!
Richard Stum was all over the place. We couldn't ride 50 miles without
seeing him on the route. And seeing Richard meant access to a cooler
full of drinks, fruit and snacks. Man you couldn't have asked for
more from an RBA.
When we were cycling in Provo, someone stopped us for directions I
didn't stop but David went to school there and clearly knows his way
around. When he caught up with me, I asked him about the stop. She
wanted to know how to get to BYU. His response? Study hard and get a
good SAT score. And then, he laughed and gave her directions.
We were stopped by Richard again a bit north of Payson and had yet
another drink and snack. Richard gave a heads-up about the next climb
and of course, we missed our turn, went up the hill for about a mile
before I realized we were off the course. We talked about it and
decided to go back to the wrong turn per the rules and to insure we
didn't mess up completely. Now, I hate getting off course but I'd
rather ride downhill to get back on track than have to go uphill!
Unfortunately, we went down the hill just to discover we had to go
back uphill only a block over! Oh well, we were within the rules and
this second hill wasn't quite as steep.
By this time, we were both ready to finish - I did my typical
ride-ahead of David and flew back through Mona at close to 20 mph.
When I reached the final turn 5 miles from Nephi, I waited on David.
He came along shortly and we rolled into Nephi at 7:15 pm. That put us
at 38:15 total not a fast time but that wasn't our objective we
only wanted to finish and we accomplished that.
I drove back to Phoenix on Sunday- fairly sore but nothing major. My
wife scheduled a massage for me the next day so I went to a local spa
and used their jacuzzi and pool before the massage. I'm a little sore
but nothing major.
Next up is the CO Last Chance. I have a lot of work to do between now
and then and I'll likely stay on South Mt every Sunday until then.
It'll do me good and this kind of training help me on this 600 also. I
never rode more than 50 miles since the last 600 attempt and I was
fine not the fastest but plenty of strength. Right now, I can't
quite wrap my head around a 1200 but, I'll figure it out with the
advice here and on other sites!
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Ted <fit2r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I would
> share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and am by
> no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many years, my
> longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did in 2010/11. I
> found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but surprisingly doable. I
> would encourage anyone who is doubting whether they can go the longer
> distances to give it a try!
> This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle
> route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of the
> ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
> I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter
> rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered personally.
> I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
> I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This saddle is
> new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was pretty
> sore by the end of the ride.
> Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly
> loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged just
> getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in a little
> better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter rides but
> had options available for some real food where none existed this ride.
> New to me for this ride:
> Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted for
> several days after the ride.
> Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle of
> the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
> Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
> All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a
> 1000-1200K sometime.
> A few pictures from the ride here.
> Ted
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "randon" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/randon/-/LB9HV9KOURUJ.
> To post to this group, send email to randon@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> randon+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.
Hey Ted, congrats on completing your first SR. That's great! Thanks
for posting the pictures. I'd love to make it up there someday for a
brevet.
Sorry for the issues. Spending that much time on the bike seems like
it can be an invitation for maginifying what doesn't work with
position or diet. I think as you ride more you'll figure it out.
There's so many variables with what works from person to person. I
just finished my first 1200k and outside of some rather raw spots on
my bum and a numb right toe, no issues. I'm amazed that I don't have
any neck, back or shoulder issues. I don't know that my position is
optimum. I tend to ride with the bars just a tad below the saddle.
Also, I use cloth tape and never wore padded gloves. I also use DT
shifters which force you to move your hands more.
Please post more pictures from future brevets and congrats again on
earning your SR.
Please post a link that demonstrates your recorded experience with events of 600km or longer.
Your advice to move the saddle forward to help with hand numbness is likely to result in worse hand numbness plus add knee problems. Moving the saddle forward shifts your center of balance forward and puts more weight on your hands. It flies in the face of everything I have ever seen posted about bicycle fitting. See for example Peter White's excellent article about bicycle fitting at http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
In particular, "That fore-aft position determines how your body is balanced on the bicycle. Your balance determines how comfortable you are, and how efficiently you can pedal the bike." You don't adjust the saddle position to optimize reach, you adjust the stem length. And as to setting the saddle so the nose is parallel with the top of the rear frame, that's possibly correct for a sloping top tube as on many modern bikes, but almost certainly wrong when the top tube is horizontal. As Peter White says: "Get yourself a saddle you can sit on so that your pelvis is resting on a level surface. For most saddles that would put the nose of the saddle a bit higher than the rear. "
Your advice to eat more fat flies in the face of everything that I have seen posted about optimal foods for long distance riding. Most people have plenty of fat stores that they carry around with them all the time. What they need is carbohydrates for long distance. See among the many examples: http://www.coach-hughes.com/resources/endurance_nutrition.html
"*Eat primarily carbs on the bike*Youre burning both glycogen (from carbs) and fat for energy while cycling. We all have enough fat to fuel a long ride, but we can run out of glycogen within a few of hours. Your brain can only burn glycogen. Avoid the bonk by eating mostly carbs."
And your comment that the spokes look too "chunky" and maybe too "tight" -- seems to harken back to all your arguments over on rec.bicycles.tech to ride on wheels with slack spoke tension so that they can absorb more road shock. As has been pointed out numerous times on that newgroup by people with a little expertise in wheelbuilding--like Jobst Brandt--slack spokes just means broken spokes. There's a wonderful new invention called pneumatic tires that is designed to absorb road shock!
Such a plethora of advice that contradicts all of the published advice by people who I regard as experts makes me wonder about the source of your expertise.
So that's why I ask for documented evidence of your expertise on long distance bicycle riding, as shown by the rides that you have done of 600km or longer. Please include your real name.
I don't think anyone in this newsgroup needs further citations regarding the expertise of John Hughes, Peter White, or Jobst Brandt, all have deep knowledge of the subjects about which they claim expertise.
I have a fair amount of long distance experience, which you can easily find by looking me up on the RUSA website, RUSA #2931. But I don't claim any particular expertise in nutrition, bicycle fitting or wheelbuilding that goes beyond what I've cited above.
On Sunday, July 1, 2012 1:58:03 AM UTC-4, thirty-six wrote:
> Seems to me like the effects of too little fat consumption possibly > heightened by dehydration. Eat good fats, butter, lard, dripping, > coconut oil, almond oil and walnut oil. This is not ride specific, it > is a life recommendation. Rich fruit cake serves on the bike. It's > 'rich' because of the butter and ground almonds.
> Looking at your on the hoods riding position, it seems to me you are > too stretched. By reducing the saddle to handlebar reach you should > be able to ride comfortably with bent elbows which will benefit your > hands. The spokes on the front wheel look a bit chunky and I also > wonder whether they have been made too tight.
> The saddle problem is probably just the wrong saddle for you > (typically not wide enough) but make sure that the nose is level with > the top of the rear frame. Reducing the handlebar reach might help as > it will keep you in the rear of the saddle. Just go for a casual ride > and see if moving the saddle forward assists in reducing pain when it > first makes itself known.
> On Jun 30, 7:44 am, Ted <fit2r...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I > would > > share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and > am > > by no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many > > years, my longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did > in > > 2010/11. I found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but > > surprisingly doable. I would encourage anyone who is doubting whether > they > > can go the longer distances to give it a try!
> > This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle > > route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of > the > > ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
> > I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter > > rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered > personally. > > I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
> > I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This > saddle > > is new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was > > pretty sore by the end of the ride.
> > Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly > > loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged > > just getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in > a > > little better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter > > rides but had options available for some real food where none existed > this > > ride.
> > New to me for this ride:
> > Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted > for > > several days after the ride.
> > Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle > of > > the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
> > Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
> > All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a > > 1000-1200K sometime.
Sounds like you have some work to do on bicycle fit and position. The best article I've found about that is Peter White's, http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm You could try going for a bike fit. I've never had a bike fit because I always figure I'll get a 20-something racer-wannabe who just can't get their mind around what position you need to ride your bike for 90 hours. But I know that there are bike fitters out there who know what we need.
On this year's 600km, I tried Allen Lim's rice cakes and they were great as a savory carbohydrate-intensive alternative to the sweet carbohydrates that usually form most of my on-bike diet. As to the swallowing gu problem, I find it helps to take a mouthful of water with the gu and swish it around so that the gu is diluted.
Keep on cracking. One of the fun things about randonneuring is that there's always more to learn.
On Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:44:02 AM UTC-4, Ted wrote:
> I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I would > share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and am > by no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many > years, my longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did in > 2010/11. I found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but > surprisingly doable. I would encourage anyone who is doubting whether they > can go the longer distances to give it a try!
> This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle > route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of the > ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
> I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter > rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered personally. > I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
> I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This saddle > is new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was > pretty sore by the end of the ride.
> Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly > loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged > just getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in a > little better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter > rides but had options available for some real food where none existed this > ride.
> New to me for this ride:
> Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted > for several days after the ride.
> Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle > of the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
> Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
> All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a > 1000-1200K sometime.
One of our club members who is an MD posted a few years ago about possible adverse effects from taking ibuprofen during hard exercise. Unfortunately, I can't find the post anymore. Basically, hard exercise is taxing to the liver, ibuprofen is taxing to the liver, so the combo is a double whammy. So I try to avoid taking Ibuprofen and just put up with a little pain.
On Saturday, June 30, 2012 1:45:58 PM UTC-4, Rando Richard wrote:
> Ted, > Congratulations on finishing your first 600K! > I also use and sell<http://www.distancebiker.com/store/index.php/bike-components/saddles....>Gilles Berthoud Saddles. I found the "wide" model very comfortable, but > ONLY after it is broken in as per the Lon Haldeman method which I have > recounted on my blog page <http://www.randorichard.com/saddle-break-in>. > I find that half way through most 600Ks (or near the end of day 1 of a > 1200k) I need to start taking Ibuprofen to fend off various aches and pains > (this is addition to taking SportLegs). As long as I stay hydrated this is > a safe thing to do. > I have always maintained there are basically two big show stoppers in > randonneuring. If one can overcome these, the sport is much more enjoyable. > They are: > 1. GI Issues > 2. Saddle Sores > Cheers, > Rando Richard > RandoRichard.com <http://www.RandoRichard.com> (blog) > Distance Biker <http://www.DistanceBiker.com> (roadie gear) > eoGEAR <http://www.eogear.com> (rando & SUP bags) > RUSA member # 4638 & UMCA member # 5305
> I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I would >> share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and am >> by no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many >> years, my longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did in >> 2010/11. I found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but >> surprisingly doable. I would encourage anyone who is doubting whether they >> can go the longer distances to give it a try!
>> This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle >> route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of the >> ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
>> I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter >> rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered personally. >> I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
>> I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This saddle >> is new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was >> pretty sore by the end of the ride.
>> Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly >> loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged >> just getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in a >> little better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter >> rides but had options available for some real food where none existed this >> ride.
>> New to me for this ride:
>> Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted >> for several days after the ride.
>> Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle >> of the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
>> Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
>> All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a >> 1000-1200K sometime.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "randon" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/randon/-/LB9HV9KOURUJ. >> To post to this group, send email to randon@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> randon+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.
Nick: >>I tried Allen Lim's rice cakes and they were great as a savory
carbohydrate-intensive alternative to the sweet carbohydrates that
usually form most of my on-bike diet.
Ted: >>Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was
quickly loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly
gagged just getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing
dialed in a little better.
I've had similar experiences to both of you. Late in a ride, I tend to
find sweeter things unappealing. Switching to a more savory strategy
later in the day has worked well for me. In particular, I've found
tortillas with something savory rolled up inside (like a slice or two of
salty smoked turkey breast or some hummus) to be a great alternative.
In colder weather, I wrap them up in a little Saran so that I can
transport them easily and eat them while moving. I also think that for
me, the extra protein that late in a ride also helps out quite a bit.
It's satisfying. When it's too warm to pack something savory (for fear
of spoilage) I try to find a Subway or a grocery store deli where I can
get a turkey sandwich around dinner time. Seems to be just what I need
to carry me into the night time hours!
I need to try those rice cakes...
Late in a ride, the BEST food is food that you will actually eat. It
might not be scientifically "ideal" but all the ideal food in the world
won't help if you can't stomach it at that moment. For some reason,
many Oregon randos seem to have settled on corn dogs... I won't touch
one with a ten foot poll, but hey, if it works for them, more power to
'em!
Good dietry fat, essential fat, is not the same as stored fat. There
is a common misconception which leads to minimal intakes of dietry fat
in western society. The absence of quality dietry fat leads to many
problems including poor muscle function and cognition. The human body
will not continue to operate at its peak without regular intake of
quality fat.
The saddle movement suggestion was a temporary measure after pain had
established to clarify whether a shorter reach would help diminish the
pain, which would permanently be effected by a shorter stem. I did
not mention the bike frame, only the saddle and to be specific, a line
connecting the peak of the nose of the saddle with the peak of the
rear frame of the saddle should be parallel to the ground or very
slightly pointing up.
Slack spokes do not break, it's actively bending spokes that break
(and those involved in a collision). Overly tensioned spokes do break
rims and hub flanges and do stiffen the wheel.
My knowledge is gained by doing. I've read the contradictory advice
and it didn't work for me. I resarched historical documents and kept
my ears open to more recent findings. The depth of physiological
beliefs into why essential fats are essential is beyond my knowledge.
With them I gain muscle speed, strength and power, without them I curl
up with little function. This is sufficient for me.
It has been the custom for western governments to push American
wheat onto the public to the general detriment of health.
Carbohydates are good for high power activities. Distance cycling is
not necessarily such an activity. There is no essential carbohydrate
and it is likely that an athlete is deficient in essential fats if he
has been listening to US government advice on eating. At low effort
levels it is entirely possible to fuel on fats and it will be easier
than attempting to fuel on carbohydrates and fat stores. Use carbs in
addition to fats only when you are riding hard (say above 22mph). If
you are not making this speed, it is not thyough lack of carbs but
some other problem you need to address, a low dietry fat intake is
likely for many people on western (advised) diets.
On Jul 6, 1:19 am, NickBull <nick.bike.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please post a link that demonstrates your recorded experience with events
> of 600km or longer.
> Your advice to move the saddle forward to help with hand numbness is likely
> to result in worse hand numbness plus add knee problems. Moving the saddle
> forward shifts your center of balance forward and puts more weight on your
> hands. It flies in the face of everything I have ever seen posted about
> bicycle fitting. See for example Peter White's excellent article about
> bicycle fitting athttp://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
> In particular, "That fore-aft position determines how your body is balanced
> on the bicycle. Your balance determines how comfortable you are, and how
> efficiently you can pedal the bike." You don't adjust the saddle position
> to optimize reach, you adjust the stem length. And as to setting the
> saddle so the nose is parallel with the top of the rear frame, that's
> possibly correct for a sloping top tube as on many modern bikes, but almost
> certainly wrong when the top tube is horizontal. As Peter White says: "Get
> yourself a saddle you can sit on so that your pelvis is resting on a level
> surface. For most saddles that would put the nose of the saddle a bit
> higher than the rear. "
> Your advice to eat more fat flies in the face of everything that I have
> seen posted about optimal foods for long distance riding. Most people have
> plenty of fat stores that they carry around with them all the time. What
> they need is carbohydrates for long distance. See among the many examples:http://www.coach-hughes.com/resources/endurance_nutrition.html
> "*Eat primarily carbs on the bike*Youre burning both glycogen (from
> carbs) and fat for energy while cycling. We all have enough fat to fuel a
> long ride, but we can run out of glycogen within a few of hours. Your brain
> can only burn glycogen. Avoid the bonk by eating mostly carbs."
> And your comment that the spokes look too "chunky" and maybe too "tight" --
> seems to harken back to all your arguments over on rec.bicycles.tech to
> ride on wheels with slack spoke tension so that they can absorb more road
> shock. As has been pointed out numerous times on that newgroup by people
> with a little expertise in wheelbuilding--like Jobst Brandt--slack spokes
> just means broken spokes. There's a wonderful new invention called
> pneumatic tires that is designed to absorb road shock!
> Such a plethora of advice that contradicts all of the published advice by
> people who I regard as experts makes me wonder about the source of your
> expertise.
> So that's why I ask for documented evidence of your expertise on long
> distance bicycle riding, as shown by the rides that you have done of 600km
> or longer. Please include your real name.
> I don't think anyone in this newsgroup needs further citations regarding
> the expertise of John Hughes, Peter White, or Jobst Brandt, all have deep
> knowledge of the subjects about which they claim expertise.
> I have a fair amount of long distance experience, which you can easily find
> by looking me up on the RUSA website, RUSA #2931. But I don't claim any
> particular expertise in nutrition, bicycle fitting or wheelbuilding that
> goes beyond what I've cited above.
> Nick Bull
> On Sunday, July 1, 2012 1:58:03 AM UTC-4, thirty-six wrote:
> > Seems to me like the effects of too little fat consumption possibly
> > heightened by dehydration. Eat good fats, butter, lard, dripping,
> > coconut oil, almond oil and walnut oil. This is not ride specific, it
> > is a life recommendation. Rich fruit cake serves on the bike. It's
> > 'rich' because of the butter and ground almonds.
> > Looking at your on the hoods riding position, it seems to me you are
> > too stretched. By reducing the saddle to handlebar reach you should
> > be able to ride comfortably with bent elbows which will benefit your
> > hands. The spokes on the front wheel look a bit chunky and I also
> > wonder whether they have been made too tight.
> > The saddle problem is probably just the wrong saddle for you
> > (typically not wide enough) but make sure that the nose is level with
> > the top of the rear frame. Reducing the handlebar reach might help as
> > it will keep you in the rear of the saddle. Just go for a casual ride
> > and see if moving the saddle forward assists in reducing pain when it
> > first makes itself known.
> > On Jun 30, 7:44 am, Ted <fit2r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I
> > would
> > > share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and
> > am
> > > by no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many
> > > years, my longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did
> > in
> > > 2010/11. I found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but
> > > surprisingly doable. I would encourage anyone who is doubting whether
> > they
> > > can go the longer distances to give it a try!
> > > This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle
> > > route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of
> > the
> > > ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
> > > I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter
> > > rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered
> > personally.
> > > I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
> > > I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This
> > saddle
> > > is new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was
> > > pretty sore by the end of the ride.
> > > Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly
> > > loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged
> > > just getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in
> > a
> > > little better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter
> > > rides but had options available for some real food where none existed
> > this
> > > ride.
> > > New to me for this ride:
> > > Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted
> > for
> > > several days after the ride.
> > > Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle
> > of
> > > the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
> > > Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
> > > All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a
> > > 1000-1200K sometime.
As a former wheel-builder (in my youth) and a cyclist in the 'Clydesdale' class (and with a masters in Physics) I can say this without reservation:
Properly tensioned spokes make stronger wheels by the simple virtue of distributing forces amongst a larger number of spokes.
I can go thousands of miles without one spoke failure on a 32H setup, with the spokes properly tensioned.
Note: Factory wheels are rarely tensioned correctly. Also if you have one spoke failure, there's a good chance the others are on their way to failing as well.
> Good dietry fat, essential fat, is not the same as stored fat. There
> is a common misconception which leads to minimal intakes of dietry fat
> in western society. The absence of quality dietry fat leads to many
> problems including poor muscle function and cognition. The human body
> will not continue to operate at its peak without regular intake of
> quality fat.
> The saddle movement suggestion was a temporary measure after pain had
> established to clarify whether a shorter reach would help diminish the
> pain, which would permanently be effected by a shorter stem. I did
> not mention the bike frame, only the saddle and to be specific, a line
> connecting the peak of the nose of the saddle with the peak of the
> rear frame of the saddle should be parallel to the ground or very
> slightly pointing up.
> Slack spokes do not break, it's actively bending spokes that break
> (and those involved in a collision). Overly tensioned spokes do break
> rims and hub flanges and do stiffen the wheel.
> My knowledge is gained by doing. I've read the contradictory advice
> and it didn't work for me. I resarched historical documents and kept
> my ears open to more recent findings. The depth of physiological
> beliefs into why essential fats are essential is beyond my knowledge.
> With them I gain muscle speed, strength and power, without them I curl
> up with little function. This is sufficient for me.
> It has been the custom for western governments to push American
> wheat onto the public to the general detriment of health.
> Carbohydates are good for high power activities. Distance cycling is
> not necessarily such an activity. There is no essential carbohydrate
> and it is likely that an athlete is deficient in essential fats if he
> has been listening to US government advice on eating. At low effort
> levels it is entirely possible to fuel on fats and it will be easier
> than attempting to fuel on carbohydrates and fat stores. Use carbs in
> addition to fats only when you are riding hard (say above 22mph). If
> you are not making this speed, it is not thyough lack of carbs but
> some other problem you need to address, a low dietry fat intake is
> likely for many people on western (advised) diets.
>> Please post a link that demonstrates your recorded experience with events
>> of 600km or longer.
>> Your advice to move the saddle forward to help with hand numbness is likely
>> to result in worse hand numbness plus add knee problems. Moving the saddle
>> forward shifts your center of balance forward and puts more weight on your
>> hands. It flies in the face of everything I have ever seen posted about
>> bicycle fitting. See for example Peter White's excellent article about
>> bicycle fitting athttp://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
>> In particular, "That fore-aft position determines how your body is balanced
>> on the bicycle. Your balance determines how comfortable you are, and how
>> efficiently you can pedal the bike." You don't adjust the saddle position
>> to optimize reach, you adjust the stem length. And as to setting the
>> saddle so the nose is parallel with the top of the rear frame, that's
>> possibly correct for a sloping top tube as on many modern bikes, but almost
>> certainly wrong when the top tube is horizontal. As Peter White says: "Get
>> yourself a saddle you can sit on so that your pelvis is resting on a level
>> surface. For most saddles that would put the nose of the saddle a bit
>> higher than the rear. "
>> Your advice to eat more fat flies in the face of everything that I have
>> seen posted about optimal foods for long distance riding. Most people have
>> plenty of fat stores that they carry around with them all the time. What
>> they need is carbohydrates for long distance. See among the many examples:http://www.coach-hughes.com/resources/endurance_nutrition.html
>> "*Eat primarily carbs on the bike*Youre burning both glycogen (from
>> carbs) and fat for energy while cycling. We all have enough fat to fuel a
>> long ride, but we can run out of glycogen within a few of hours. Your brain
>> can only burn glycogen. Avoid the bonk by eating mostly carbs."
>> And your comment that the spokes look too "chunky" and maybe too "tight" --
>> seems to harken back to all your arguments over on rec.bicycles.tech to
>> ride on wheels with slack spoke tension so that they can absorb more road
>> shock. As has been pointed out numerous times on that newgroup by people
>> with a little expertise in wheelbuilding--like Jobst Brandt--slack spokes
>> just means broken spokes. There's a wonderful new invention called
>> pneumatic tires that is designed to absorb road shock!
>> Such a plethora of advice that contradicts all of the published advice by
>> people who I regard as experts makes me wonder about the source of your
>> expertise.
>> So that's why I ask for documented evidence of your expertise on long
>> distance bicycle riding, as shown by the rides that you have done of 600km
>> or longer. Please include your real name.
>> I don't think anyone in this newsgroup needs further citations regarding
>> the expertise of John Hughes, Peter White, or Jobst Brandt, all have deep
>> knowledge of the subjects about which they claim expertise.
>> I have a fair amount of long distance experience, which you can easily find
>> by looking me up on the RUSA website, RUSA #2931. But I don't claim any
>> particular expertise in nutrition, bicycle fitting or wheelbuilding that
>> goes beyond what I've cited above.
>> Nick Bull
>> On Sunday, July 1, 2012 1:58:03 AM UTC-4, thirty-six wrote:
>>> Seems to me like the effects of too little fat consumption possibly
>>> heightened by dehydration. Eat good fats, butter, lard, dripping,
>>> coconut oil, almond oil and walnut oil. This is not ride specific, it
>>> is a life recommendation. Rich fruit cake serves on the bike. It's
>>> 'rich' because of the butter and ground almonds.
>>> Looking at your on the hoods riding position, it seems to me you are
>>> too stretched. By reducing the saddle to handlebar reach you should
>>> be able to ride comfortably with bent elbows which will benefit your
>>> hands. The spokes on the front wheel look a bit chunky and I also
>>> wonder whether they have been made too tight.
>>> The saddle problem is probably just the wrong saddle for you
>>> (typically not wide enough) but make sure that the nose is level with
>>> the top of the rear frame. Reducing the handlebar reach might help as
>>> it will keep you in the rear of the saddle. Just go for a casual ride
>>> and see if moving the saddle forward assists in reducing pain when it
>>> first makes itself known.
>>> On Jun 30, 7:44 am, Ted <fit2r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I
>>> would
>>>> share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and
>>> am
>>>> by no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many
>>>> years, my longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did
>>> in
>>>> 2010/11. I found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but
>>>> surprisingly doable. I would encourage anyone who is doubting whether
>>> they
>>>> can go the longer distances to give it a try!
>>>> This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle
>>>> route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of
>>> the
>>>> ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
>>>> I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter
>>>> rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered
>>> personally.
>>>> I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
>>>> I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This
>>> saddle
>>>> is new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was
>>>> pretty sore by the end of the ride.
>>>> Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly
>>>> loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged
>>>> just getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in
>>> a
>>>> little better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter
>>>> rides but had options available for some real food where none existed
>>> this
>>>> ride.
>>>> New to me for this ride:
>>>> Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted
>>> for
>>>> several days after the ride.
>>>> Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle
>>> of
>>>> the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
>>>> Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
>>>> All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a
>>>> 1000-1200K sometime.
> Seems to me like the effects of too little fat consumption possibly
> heightened by dehydration. Eat good fats, butter, lard, dripping,
> coconut oil, almond oil and walnut oil.
I concur. On a 600k in Alaska it is a simple matter for the
enterprising rider to butcher and roast a caribou or moose. Uneaten
morsels may be left as treats for weaker riders. If the route does not
reliably assure a supply of fresh road kill, a .3006 or heavier
caliber weapon must be added to the kit. The weight of said firearm,
in addition to the axe required for cutting firewood, may make this
strategy untenable for some. Modern sports foods are available for the
less self-reliant randonneur.
With respect to sports nutritionists and their cast-iron-stomached
research subjects, some of us cannot subsist on sugar all day and
night. Some amount of proteins and fats is required. There is a
variety of products: Ensure, soy-based Hammer endurance products, whey- based Spiz are the more prominent. We have all heard each is the best
and each is the worst; fortunately there is variety so each person has
a fair chance of finding something that works for him or her. The key
point is to experiment and find some mix of foods that you can consume
for several days at a time.
> On Jun 29, 11:44 pm, Ted <fit2r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that
>> lasted for
>> several days after the ride.
> I had toe numbness that lasted for several months after my first ride
> over 600k. I went to a sports medicine clinic in Seattle and had
> custom orthodic inserts made for my shoes with metatarsal pads to
> spread the toe bones. No problems since. I also use wider shoes for
> cycling than I normally use.
> For the hands, I think you should consider reducing your reach to the
> bars. Also, I use gel pads under the handlebar tape available from
> Specialized, Fizik, and others, to reduce the road shock. Try to move
> you hands frequently to distribute the pressure.
I agree with Chris. For the shoes and orthotics, try to find someone
open-minded enough to understand endurance cycling is different from a
two-hour sprint around town. The same consideration applies to your
bars. They look fine for sports riding, but your symptoms say a
shorter reach will be more suitable for you for randonneuring. Gel
pads or two wraps of cork tape will make the bars larger, which will
help distribute pressure over a larger portion of your hands.
Is it me or is the distance and number stops out of order or am I missing
something?
Did the KM and Miles flip at some point - or are the stops out of order -
again this could just be me.
Jim House
Maumee, OH
From: randon@googlegroups.com [mailto:randon@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
DistanceBiker.com
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 1:46 PM
Cc: randon@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Randon] First 600K
Ted,
Congratulations on finishing your first 600K!
I also use and sell
<http://www.distancebiker.com/store/index.php/bike-components/saddles....>
Gilles Berthoud Saddles. I found the "wide" model very comfortable, but ONLY
after it is broken in as per the Lon Haldeman method which I have recounted
on my blog page <http://www.randorichard.com/saddle-break-in> .
I find that half way through most 600Ks (or near the end of day 1 of a
1200k) I need to start taking Ibuprofen to fend off various aches and pains
(this is addition to taking SportLegs). As long as I stay hydrated this is a
safe thing to do.
I have always maintained there are basically two big show stoppers in
randonneuring. If one can overcome these, the sport is much more enjoyable.
They are:
1. GI Issues
2. Saddle Sores
Cheers,
Rando Richard
RandoRichard.com <http://www.RandoRichard.com> (blog)
Distance Biker <http://www.DistanceBiker.com> (roadie gear)
eoGEAR <http://www.eogear.com> (rando & SUP bags)
RUSA member # 4638 & UMCA member # 5305
I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I would
share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and am by
no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many years, my
longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did in 2010/11. I
found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but surprisingly doable. I
would encourage anyone who is doubting whether they can go the longer
distances to give it a try!
This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle
route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of the
ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter
rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered personally.
I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This saddle is
new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was pretty
sore by the end of the ride.
Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly
loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged just
getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in a little
better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter rides but
had options available for some real food where none existed this ride.
New to me for this ride:
Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted for
several days after the ride.
Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle of
the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a
1000-1200K sometime.
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"randon" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/randon/-/LB9HV9KOURUJ.
To post to this group, send email to randon@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
randon+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
<mailto:randon%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> .
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"randon" group.
To post to this group, send email to randon@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
randon+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.
> Is it me or is the distance and number stops out of order or am I missing something?
> Did the KM and Miles flip at some point or are the stops out of order again this could just be me
> Jim House
> Maumee, OH
> From: randon@googlegroups.com [mailto:randon@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of DistanceBiker.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 1:46 PM
> Cc: randon@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Randon] First 600K
> Ted,
> Congratulations on finishing your first 600K!
> I also use and sell Gilles Berthoud Saddles. I found the "wide" model very comfortable, but ONLY after it is broken in as per the Lon Haldeman method which I have recounted on my blog page.
> I find that half way through most 600Ks (or near the end of day 1 of a 1200k) I need to start taking Ibuprofen to fend off various aches and pains (this is addition to taking SportLegs). As long as I stay hydrated this is a safe thing to do.
> I have always maintained there are basically two big show stoppers in randonneuring. If one can overcome these, the sport is much more enjoyable. They are:
> 1. GI Issues
> 2. Saddle Sores
> Cheers,
> Rando Richard
> RandoRichard.com (blog)
> Distance Biker (roadie gear)
> eoGEAR (rando & SUP bags)
> RUSA member # 4638 & UMCA member # 5305
> I completed my first 600K (and SR series) last weekend. I thought I would share some of my thoughts on the ride. I'm approaching my mid-50s and am by no means some super-fit athlete. While I've ridden bikes for many years, my longest rides prior to this year were the 200K brevets I did in 2010/11. I found the longer brevets this year to be tough, but surprisingly doable. I would encourage anyone who is doubting whether they can go the longer distances to give it a try!
> This was the Alaskan Gakona-Delta-Tok-Gakona 600K, a beautiful triangle route in interior Alaska. We had beautiful sunny weather for much of the ride with a fair amount of headwinds and an afternoon thundershower.
> I did experience a number of issues, some that I've had on the shorter rides, but others that I have read about but never encountered personally. I've been thinking how I might mitigate these in the future.
> I haven't been completely comfortable on my Berthoud saddle. This saddle is new this year and perhaps just isn't fully broken in. My butt was pretty sore by the end of the ride.
> Late the first day with about 30 miles to the sleep stop I was quickly loosing energy, but I couldn't eat anything in my bag. I nearly gagged just getting a Gu down. Clearly I need to get the food thing dialed in a little better. I've experienced this to a milder degree on the shorter rides but had options available for some real food where none existed this ride.
> New to me for this ride:
> Numbness in my toes and right hand (ring and little finger) that lasted for several days after the ride.
> Right thumb refused to work the paddle on my Campy shifter by the middle of the second day. It's still weak when trying to grip something.
> Tendinitis in my right Achilles tendon. It's still sore.
> All in all it was a great ride and I can even dream of attempting a 1000-1200K sometime.
> A few pictures from the ride here.
> Ted
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "randon" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/randon/-/LB9HV9KOURUJ.
> To post to this group, send email to randon@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to randon+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "randon" group.
> To post to this group, send email to randon@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to randon+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "randon" group.
> To post to this group, send email to randon@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to randon+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/randon?hl=en.
Congratulations Ted! Beautiful place to ride your first 600!
The nutrition thing - I couldn't ride past 300k without a spectacular bonk. I finally caved and went to food in the bottle. Mine is all carbs and electrolytes; I still eat "real" food, but this way I am always getting something when eating is just too much trouble. Bill G offered up some of his Spiz on our 600. I tried it on a subsequent ride. Not bad, but goes bad after awhile.
Did the KM and Miles flip at some point or are the stops out of order
> again this could just be me
Yes, upon looking at the brevet card there are several typos in there. The miles and km are sometimes mislabeled, and are not consistent (ie sometimes km/m, and sometimes m/km). I think the numbers are right if you sort them out. Also I arrived at the Dot Lake control at 9:44 pm, so technically that should have been entered as 2144.
I'm using the wide model as well, and I bit the bullet and am in Day 3 or 4 of the Lon Haldeman method of breaking in leather saddles. It has some nice dimples at my sit bones. I did a 50 mile ride with my wife today and it feels much better.
Thanks Nick. I have read and been inspired by some of your exploits over at the Daily Randonneur (or somewhere out there).
I have spent hours trying to work out the proper fit. I've read Peter's article and tried to apply it to my Gunnar. I think you are spot on in your comments to thirty-six, in that I think I may need to get my saddle back a bit. I'm experimenting with that right now with a different seat post. But, I'm already using a 80mm stem and I hate to go shorter, and I do feel a bit stretched out. Perhaps I need a new 650b rando bike!
So I have been seriously considering a bike fit, but like you I have reservations that they will know much more than I know. But I think I'll try.
Susan, I like your idea of tortillas and some sort of meat and cheese inside. Spoilage usually isn't and issue here (although it was in the 80s for part of my ride). And believe me if there had been a Subway anywhere nearby I would have gone for it. When I did arrive in Tok I quickly grabbed the leftover pizza the RBA and crew offered me and started devouring it. I don't think I even thanked them for it.
Thank you Lynne. I love your blog and have read many of your ride reports. On my 400K I was able to have some "real" food at the halfway point (Subway soup/sandwich) and again at about 280K (grilled chicken sandwich, fries, coffee, lots of water) and then even a quick snack at a convenience store with 30 miles to go. I felt much better after getting the "real" food. But alas, on the 600K, there were no such places to stop on the Delta-Tok segment. So I need to figure out something to carry on the bike that will keep me going. Just the name Spiz, doesn't sound too appetizing, but I'll look into it.
On Friday, July 6, 2012 8:11:46 PM UTC-8, Lynne Fitz wrote:
> Congratulations Ted! Beautiful place to ride your first 600!
> The nutrition thing - I couldn't ride past 300k without a spectacular > bonk. I finally caved and went to food in the bottle. Mine is all carbs > and electrolytes; I still eat "real" food, but this way I am always getting > something when eating is just too much trouble. Bill G offered up some of > his Spiz on our 600. I tried it on a subsequent ride. Not bad, but goes > bad after awhile.
On Friday, July 6, 2012 8:11:46 PM UTC-8, Lynne Fitz wrote:
> Congratulations Ted! Beautiful place to ride your first 600!
> The nutrition thing - I couldn't ride past 300k without a spectacular > bonk. I finally caved and went to food in the bottle. Mine is all carbs > and electrolytes; I still eat "real" food, but this way I am always getting > something when eating is just too much trouble. Bill G offered up some of > his Spiz on our 600. I tried it on a subsequent ride. Not bad, but goes > bad after awhile.
Bill, I was riding some distance behind the others (well, two of them at this point), and they apparently left me no morsels.
On a 600k in Alaska it is a simple matter for the
> enterprising rider to butcher and roast a caribou or moose. Uneaten > morsels may be left as treats for weaker riders. If the route does not > reliably assure a supply of fresh road kill, a .3006 or heavier > caliber weapon must be added to the kit. The weight of said firearm, > in addition to the axe required for cutting firewood, may make this > strategy untenable for some. Modern sports foods are available for the > less self-reliant randonneur.
Until I find a way to strap a .3006 (I think they sell them at Walmart) on my bike I guess I'll be the less self-reliant randonneur.
> Some amount of proteins and fats is required. There is a > variety of products: Ensure, soy-based Hammer endurance products, whey- > based Spiz are the more prominent. We have all heard each is the best > and each is the worst; fortunately there is variety so each person has > a fair chance of finding something that works for him or her. The key > point is to experiment and find some mix of foods that you can consume > for several days at a time.
