All randonneurs love to ride but some love it so much that they need
to squeeze every available second out of every Brevet. A new
organization is now forming to support this worthy goal. It’s called
Cyclos Escargot (CE). We are establishing a series of honors to
recognize achievement in full time riding in ACP sanctioned events.
The catagories R95 and the coveted R99 recognize riders that finish a
Super Randonneur series of 200, 300, 400, and 600 km rides at 95 and
99 percent of the time limit for each ride. There are no awards but
all participants are given the honorary title “finisher” and their
names are entered in a roll of honor maintained by the Audax Club
Parisien.
Rules: In keeping with the rule for Fleches, the rider cannot spend
more than an hour at any control, unless they visit the same control
twice due to poor navigation. Bonus miles are OK as long as they are
accidental. Other than slow riding, typical forms of delay include
changing clothes, dithering about changing clothes, eating multiple
gas station burritos, stopping for gastric distress, inadvertent
sleeping, fixing multiple flats on the same tire, and repairing
mechanical problems with duct tape and ingenuity.
Time limits are:
Terrific idea! Are you prepared to handle massive amounts of paperwork?
db
--- On Mon, 9/7/09, cheg <che...@comcast.net> wrote:
From: cheg <che...@comcast.net>
Subject: [Randon] Cyclos Escargot
To: "randon" <randon@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 1:38 PM
All randonneurs love to ride but some love it so much that they need
to squeeze every available second out of every Brevet. A new
organization is now forming to support this worthy goal. It’s called
Cyclos Escargot (CE). We are establishing a series of honors to
recognize achievement in full time riding in ACP sanctioned events.
The catagories R95 and the coveted R99 recognize riders that finish a
Super Randonneur series of 200, 300, 400, and 600 km rides at 95 and
99 percent of the time limit for each ride. There are no awards but
all participants are given the honorary title “finisher” and their
names are entered in a roll of honor maintained by the Audax Club
Parisien.
Rules: In keeping with the rule for Fleches, the rider cannot spend
more than an hour at any control, unless they visit the same control
twice due to poor navigation. Bonus miles are OK as long as they are
accidental. Other than slow riding, typical forms of delay include
changing clothes, dithering about changing clothes, eating multiple
gas station burritos, stopping for gastric distress, inadvertent
sleeping, fixing multiple flats on the same tire, and repairing
mechanical problems with duct tape and ingenuity.
Time limits are:
> Rules: In keeping with the rule for Fleches, the rider cannot spend
> more than an hour at any control, unless they visit the same control
> twice due to poor navigation. Bonus miles are OK as long as they are
> accidental. Other than slow riding, typical forms of delay include
> changing clothes, dithering about changing clothes, eating multiple
> gas station burritos, stopping for gastric distress, inadvertent
> sleeping, fixing multiple flats on the same tire, and repairing
> mechanical problems with duct tape and ingenuity.
> Time limits are:
> Rules: In keeping with the rule for Fleches, the rider cannot spend > more than an hour at any control, unless they visit the same control > twice due to poor navigation.
I want to quibble a bit with this rule. I think there should be an allowance for getting a good, solid 8 hours of sleep every night during the 600K and longer events.
-- Charles M. Coldwell, W1CMC "Turn on, log in, tune out" Winchester, Massachusetts, New England (FN42kk)
> > Rules: In keeping with the rule for Fleches, the rider cannot spend
> > more than an hour at any control, unless they visit the same control
> > twice due to poor navigation.
> I want to quibble a bit with this rule. I think there should be an
> allowance for getting a good, solid 8 hours of sleep every night during
> the 600K and longer events.
> --
> Charles M. Coldwell, W1CMC
> "Turn on, log in, tune out"
> Winchester, Massachusetts, New England (FN42kk)
> Terrific idea! Are you prepared to handle massive amounts of paperwork?
>
I've already won this! 600km, R95 and R99!
Anyone that does a bike ride of any duration passing though San
Francisco that also includes on the same ride any of Alaska,
Vancouver, Seattle, Tijuana, San Diego, LA, Mexico City, Panama City,
Cabo, Santiago, Punta Arenas, or Portland is certainly free to contact
me with a nice letter or e-mail, at least one official photo, such as
from Disneyland with Mickey, or riding the Giant Dipper in Santa Cruz,
need some receipts too, including at least one fast food receipt,
this/these riders will certainly be well acknowledged with a nice
individualized testimonial and also a medal/reward of some type. By
mail!
I think the rules need to be such that riders designate which version
they are attempting at the start.
No way to 'slide' from an R99 shot to an R95 award when you find you
have a tailwind for the last 200k.
You'd have to re-ride to qualify for the other awards.
I also think adding subcategories could be helpful in
'diversification'.
How many Starbucks stops?
How many RedBulls did you drink?
R99 sans chamois?
R95 on flat pedals?
600k on a mtb with grocery basket on front and milk crate on back.
-Mike
On Sep 8, 12:53 pm, Mike Biswell <mikebisw...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Terrific idea! Are you prepared to handle massive amounts of paperwork?
> >
> I've already won this! 600km, R95 and R99!
> Anyone that does a bike ride of any duration passing though San
> Francisco that also includes on the same ride any of Alaska,
> Vancouver, Seattle, Tijuana, San Diego, LA, Mexico City, Panama City,
> Cabo, Santiago, Punta Arenas, or Portland is certainly free to contact
> me with a nice letter or e-mail, at least one official photo, such as
> from Disneyland with Mickey, or riding the Giant Dipper in Santa Cruz,
> need some receipts too, including at least one fast food receipt,
> this/these riders will certainly be well acknowledged with a nice
> individualized testimonial and also a medal/reward of some type. By
> mail!
Cyclos Escargot was intended as a joke but at its core there is
something worth considering. As Randonneurs, who do we admire? Is it
the strong, well equipped, organized rider who can stay with the fast
group and maintain a blistering pace to spend 1/3 or more of the ride
time relaxing at the finish? Or is it the less athletically gifted,
less fortunate rider who can’t hang with the big dogs but still
manages thorugh snow, rain, heat, and gloom of night to complete
within the time limit through sheer tenacity? From where I sit at the
later middle of the pack they are both worthy of admiration. It would
be great to be able to climb mountains like a gazelle and maintain
concentration and effort at high speed hour after hour. Those who can
deserve credit for it. But I also admire the riders who stick it out
when everyone else has gone ahead and the fun meter is approaching
zero and there is a real chance that all the effort may be for
naught.
It is often said that any rider in reasonable shape can complete a
brevet within the time limit. I don’t agree with that. That may be
true physically but Randonneuring requires a state of mind that not
everyone is capable of. So next time you are celebrating your success
at the finish of a long brevet spare a thought for the lone rider,
still out there rolling along under the open sky.
If people are really interest in the Cyclos Escargot I’ll do what I
can to help, even though I will continue to try to avoid membership.
Right now I’m perfectly happy with my average R-value of about 85.
On Sep 7, 10:38 am, cheg <che...@comcast.net> wrote:
> All randonneurs love to ride but some love it so much that they need
> to squeeze every available second out of every Brevet. A new
> organization is now forming to support this worthy goal. It’s called
> Cyclos Escargot (CE). We are establishing a series of honors to
> recognize achievement in full time riding in ACP sanctioned events.
> The catagories R95 and the coveted R99 recognize riders that finish a
> Super Randonneur series of 200, 300, 400, and 600 km rides at 95 and
> 99 percent of the time limit for each ride. There are no awards but
> all participants are given the honorary title “finisher” and their
> names are entered in a roll of honor maintained by the Audax Club
> Parisien.
> Rules: In keeping with the rule for Fleches, the rider cannot spend
> more than an hour at any control, unless they visit the same control
> twice due to poor navigation. Bonus miles are OK as long as they are
> accidental. Other than slow riding, typical forms of delay include
> changing clothes, dithering about changing clothes, eating multiple
> gas station burritos, stopping for gastric distress, inadvertent
> sleeping, fixing multiple flats on the same tire, and repairing
> mechanical problems with duct tape and ingenuity.
> Time limits are:
Great minds think alike -- our 2008 Fleche team was proudly named Les
Escargots Volants (although we finished 15 minutes early, so we must
have lost our minds a little bit).
Ten of us started Charly's 600K Brevet last Saturday morning and nine
of us finished. It was a mountainous ride and no one finished in less
than 38 hours -- five of us came in at 39:20. We were all going about
as hard as we could. I don't think anyone had more than two hours
sleep and three didn't really sleep at all. A couple of riders
finished a 600K earlier in the summer in less than 30 hours, three --
at least -- completed the very challenging Shanenndoah 1200 this year,
one rode the Fireweed 400, in Alaska, and I think all of us have
completed at least one SR series this year.
I agree with you that the statement, "Any rider in reasonable shape
can complete a brevet within the time limit," is an over used
exaggeration. Like you, I am a later middle of the pack rider and I
too am impressed that some riders can ride so fast, that some see so
much, that some overcome huge obstacles (broken crank arms!), and that
some pedal relentlessly to finish near the back at every brevet.
I think Cyclos Escargot is a funny idea and Nina laughed out loud when
I told her, but I hope that we can all work on doing our own rides and
appreciate the different abilities of those around us. I know I've
working on that for five seasons now. Maybe Cyclos Escargot should
remain a joke. After all, it is pretty funny as a joke and it's a
club most all of us end up in now and again; if not permanently.
Regards, Chuck Lathe
Franklinville, NC
On Sep 8, 10:45 pm, cheg <che...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Cyclos Escargot was intended as a joke but at its core there is
> something worth considering. As Randonneurs, who do we admire? Is it
> the strong, well equipped, organized rider who can stay with the fast
> group and maintain a blistering pace to spend 1/3 or more of the ride
> time relaxing at the finish? Or is it the less athletically gifted,
> less fortunate rider who can’t hang with the big dogs but still
> manages thorugh snow, rain, heat, and gloom of night to complete
> within the time limit through sheer tenacity? From where I sit at the
> later middle of the pack they are both worthy of admiration. It would
> be great to be able to climb mountains like a gazelle and maintain
> concentration and effort at high speed hour after hour. Those who can
> deserve credit for it. But I also admire the riders who stick it out
> when everyone else has gone ahead and the fun meter is approaching
> zero and there is a real chance that all the effort may be for
> naught.
> It is often said that any rider in reasonable shape can complete a
> brevet within the time limit. I don’t agree with that. That may be
> true physically but Randonneuring requires a state of mind that not
> everyone is capable of. So next time you are celebrating your success
> at the finish of a long brevet spare a thought for the lone rider,
> still out there rolling along under the open sky.
> If people are really interest in the Cyclos Escargot I’ll do what I
> can to help, even though I will continue to try to avoid membership.
> Right now I’m perfectly happy with my average R-value of about 85.
> On Sep 7, 10:38 am, cheg <che...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > All randonneurs love to ride but some love it so much that they need
> > to squeeze every available second out of every Brevet. A new
> > organization is now forming to support this worthy goal. It’s called
> > Cyclos Escargot (CE). We are establishing a series of honors to
> > recognize achievement in full time riding in ACP sanctioned events.
> > The catagories R95 and the coveted R99 recognize riders that finish a
> > Super Randonneur series of 200, 300, 400, and 600 km rides at 95 and
> > 99 percent of the time limit for each ride. There are no awards but
> > all participants are given the honorary title “finisher” and their
> > names are entered in a roll of honor maintained by the Audax Club
> > Parisien.
> > Rules: In keeping with the rule for Fleches, the rider cannot spend
> > more than an hour at any control, unless they visit the same control
> > twice due to poor navigation. Bonus miles are OK as long as they are
> > accidental. Other than slow riding, typical forms of delay include
> > changing clothes, dithering about changing clothes, eating multiple
> > gas station burritos, stopping for gastric distress, inadvertent
> > sleeping, fixing multiple flats on the same tire, and repairing
> > mechanical problems with duct tape and ingenuity.
> > Time limits are:
The Cyclos Escargots as an award - why not? Except it encourages riders to get very close to the time limit, risking DNF, and then our PBP quota would go down! ;-)
Seriously, I have often thought about an award for consistency. Basically, the rider who does the most events at the most consistent pace. For example, if you do the 200 km at R80, then you'd have to do other brevets at that pace, too. The more brevets you do, the more you are allowed to deviate from the average. If you can do all brevets at R99, that is as good as doing all brevets at R55. But a DNF would ruin your chances. (One could allow riders to drop one brevet out of every 6 they do...)
I think that could be fun, as long as it's not taken too seriously.
Another idea is handicap events. How about starting people for a short, challenging, non-ACP ride, such as our Mountain 100 km Populaire, based on past performance? Fastest start last, maybe 1.5 hours after the first. If the handicap is done well, all would arrive together. First across the line would be the rider who has improved the most, not the fastest one. And all would be together at the end for a party, rather than the fast guys long being gone when the slow ones arrive.
I like that idea a lot. I may even suggest it at our annual meeting. Setting an accurate handicap will be tough, but it's worth the effort.
There are a lot of fun-filled formulas that could be explored. They might even attract new riders. Currently, we give awards only to riders who ride more events, but to newbies, the thought of grinding out a permanent every weekend of the year may not be all that appealing.
When I see the success of STP, Ramrod, Death Ride, etc., I wonder whether we can't interest some of those riders in randonneuring as the "next" step up in the level of challenge. If we sell the lack of support as "adventure," then I think people will be intrigued by that. Of course, we should not emphasize the super-long distances, but a 200 km brevet should be within reach for riders of centuries. And then people work up the ladder, riding longer and longer distances.
In fact, in Seattle, there are new faces all the time, and more and more young riders as well.
>Cyclos Escargot was intended as a joke but at its core there is >something worth considering. As Randonneurs, who do we admire? Is it >the strong, well equipped, organized rider who can stay with the fast >group and maintain a blistering pace to spend 1/3 or more of the ride >time relaxing at the finish? Or is it the less athletically gifted, >less fortunate rider who can't hang with the big dogs but still >manages thorugh snow, rain, heat, and gloom of night to complete >within the time limit through sheer tenacity? From where I sit at the >later middle of the pack they are both worthy of admiration. It would >be great to be able to climb mountains like a gazelle and maintain >concentration and effort at high speed hour after hour. Those who can >deserve credit for it. But I also admire the riders who stick it out >when everyone else has gone ahead and the fun meter is approaching >zero and there is a real chance that all the effort may be for >naught. >=----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I think Jan may be on to something here. Not in the handicapping and awards sort of way but how about in the self handicapped with start times designed to most of the entered riders to the finish around the same time. This would make the fastest riders starting later and riding through the crowds in front of them on their way to the finish ;)
That would give the opportunity for a finish group BBQ or meal or what have you. People could tell their war stories and share in a group building sort of way. I think about what made 24 hour mountain bike races so fun and caused them to become a very popular form. The party like atmosphere, everyone able to talk to everyone else. The all finishing at the same time made for a camaraderie not found at other races or even events. MS 150s come to mind in this regard also. The days events provide an glue that holds it together in a sense. We lack that glue in so many ways.
People finish and in most places there's not a lot of finishers around when they finish. So everyone loads their bike up and leaves. One of the things that initially drew me to this was that it wasn'ta race. I've plenty of opportunities to race and avail myself of those. Yet it seems that who 'wins' the non-race always was or has become more important over time. Not sure what the answer is but I'm concerned that we become more irrelevant even in our own sport every year.
On Sep 9, 2009 9:23am, Jan Heine <hein...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Another idea is handicap events. How about starting people for a > short, challenging, non-ACP ride, such as our Mountain 100 km > Populaire, based on past performance? Fastest start last, maybe 1.5 > hours after the first. If the handicap is done well, all would arrive > together. First across the line would be the rider who has improved > the most, not the fastest one. And all would be together at the end > for a party, rather than the fast guys long being gone when the slow > ones arrive.
How about a rally style event where everyone predicts their own
average speed for the leg and tries to match the predicted average?
Starting times could be staggered to match up arrival times and there
could be regroups at certain controls like every 100k for a 200 or
300k ride. There are dozens of existing permanent courses to choose
from for that kind of event. The riders would have to study the ride
and figure out a realistic schedule. There would have to be some rules
to discourage sandbagging like tailoring the intermediate control open
and close times to limit the time in the bank.
> I think Jan may be on to something here. Not in the handicapping and awards
> sort of way but how about in the self handicapped with start times designed
> to most of the entered riders to the finish around the same time. This
> would make the fastest riders starting later and riding through the crowds
> in front of them on their way to the finish ;)
> That would give the opportunity for a finish group BBQ or meal or what have
> you. People could tell their war stories and share in a group building sort
> of way.
> On Sep 9, 2009 9:23am, Jan Heine <hein...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Another idea is handicap events. How about starting people for a
> > short, challenging, non-ACP ride, such as our Mountain 100 km
> > Populaire, based on past performance? Fastest start last, maybe 1.5
> > hours after the first. If the handicap is done well, all would arrive
> > together. First across the line would be the rider who has improved
> > the most, not the fastest one. And all would be together at the end
> > for a party, rather than the fast guys long being gone when the slow
> > ones arrive.
philosophically speaking, unless you are collecting medals, qualifying
for a big event, enjoy paying entrance fees, or you really like
talking convenience store workers into signing bits of paper, we don't
really need any of this to be randonneurs in the spirit, do we?
as we slide rando riding closer to a complicated version of endurance
golf with handicaps, varying levels of awards, staggered start times,
stephen hawking concocted formulae for dividing up entries into
events, sub awards for folks who only live in a particular part of the
country, and awards that favor faster riders who climb like hawks
sucking on helium... well. it just leaves me wondering 'was it broken?
did it need fixing?'
and with all the chatter lately on randon and other bike lists - one
would think it is february after a really long and cold and dark
winter. tis the best time of year to be riding (speaking from my view
in the NE).
On Sep 10, 12:52 am, cheg <che...@comcast.net> wrote:
> How about a rally style event where everyone predicts their own
> average speed for the leg and tries to match the predicted average?
> Starting times could be staggered to match up arrival times and there
> could be regroups at certain controls like every 100k for a 200 or
> 300k ride. There are dozens of existing permanent courses to choose
> from for that kind of event. The riders would have to study the ride
> and figure out a realistic schedule. There would have to be some rules
> to discourage sandbagging like tailoring the intermediate control open
> and close times to limit the time in the bank.
> On Sep 9, 3:21 pm, jerry.zor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I think Jan may be on to something here. Not in the handicapping and awards
> > sort of way but how about in the self handicapped with start times designed
> > to most of the entered riders to the finish around the same time. This
> > would make the fastest riders starting later and riding through the crowds
> > in front of them on their way to the finish ;)
> > That would give the opportunity for a finish group BBQ or meal or what have
> > you. People could tell their war stories and share in a group building sort
> > of way.
> > On Sep 9, 2009 9:23am, Jan Heine <hein...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > Another idea is handicap events. How about starting people for a
> > > short, challenging, non-ACP ride, such as our Mountain 100 km
> > > Populaire, based on past performance? Fastest start last, maybe 1.5
> > > hours after the first. If the handicap is done well, all would arrive
> > > together. First across the line would be the rider who has improved
> > > the most, not the fastest one. And all would be together at the end
> > > for a party, rather than the fast guys long being gone when the slow
> > > ones arrive.
Dear Ranons: The self-deprication continues. Just like my regular riding group, a buncha tourists, whee the biggest problem isn't weight weenies but inverse weight weenies (I've got an edge, I pack a regular 6 foot cable lock and a huge padlock) -- have you EVER been to a brevet where one of the riders at the start says "I'm feeling fast today?"
Dear Randons: Forgot to mention our clubs' recent bike rally (following route based on solving clues at each waypoint) was "won" by Team Crash Test dummy (one of the riders ws wearing a crash test dummy jersey). I was on "Team Lost." And boy were were. Randonneuring experience doesn't really help with vicious, beyond Final Jeapordy grade questions involving the "20th President" (I was thinking Harding, or Wilson, turns out it was Garfield) when half the team is from Canada. But, like Rando, it was fun just to finish, not necessarily to come in first. Oh geez, I'm getting into that rando recruitment thread territory, aren't I?
Kind of reminds me of an old riding buddy who liked to challenge us to what he called a "slow" race. Level ground, lowest gear and spin like crazy to go maybe three blocks to the coffee shop. Tougher than it sounds. . . .
db
--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Robert Leone <rob_le...@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: Robert Leone <rob_le...@earthlink.net>
Subject: [Randon] RE:Cyclos Escargot
To: randon@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 7:05 AM
Dear Ranons:
The self-deprication continues. Just like my regular riding group, a buncha tourists, whee the biggest problem isn't weight weenies but inverse weight weenies (I've got an edge, I pack a regular 6 foot cable lock and a huge padlock) -- have you EVER been to a brevet where one of the riders at the start says "I'm feeling fast today?"
> Kind of reminds me of an old riding buddy who liked to challenge us to what he called a "slow" race. Level ground, lowest gear and spin like crazy to go maybe three blocks to the coffee shop. Tougher than it sounds. . . .
>
> db
> --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Robert Leone <rob_le...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> From: Robert Leone <rob_le...@earthlink.net>
> Subject: [Randon] RE:Cyclos Escargot
> To: randon@googlegroups.com
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 7:05 AM
> Dear Ranons:
> The self-deprication continues. Just like my regular riding group, a
> buncha tourists, whee the biggest problem isn't weight weenies but
> inverse weight weenies (I've got an edge, I pack a regular 6 foot cable
> lock and a huge padlock) -- have you EVER been to a brevet where one of
> the riders at the start says "I'm feeling fast today?"
|
