burning fat on a ride
Greg
bonk, and the only thing that helps is something with fat, such as a
chocolate milk, chicken tamale, fries, fried eggs, egg salad, etc.
I know that the body requires energy to burn fat. But is it better to
just up the carb intake or to consume more carbs/hr. I'm not
necessarily trying to lose weight on a ride, but it's easier to carry
carbs on a bike than to carry fatty fuel. And most sources of fatty
foods (found on the road) are foods I'd rather not eat. But they're
the only things that can get me back to feeling normal after hours on
the road.
Any thoughts/advice?
Greg
Rico Rivendello
You did not say how many carbs your were consuming nor the ratio of
carbs to protein. Certain carbs are harder to absorb than others.
Simple sugars (high fructose corn syrup etc) need a dilute solution
(6%) for quick absorbtion and to prevent stomach upset. I could not
maintain a steady diet of Gatorade for example over a 200k without
stomach queasiness. Malto-dextrin is supposed to absorb at a rate of
20%, allowing more carbs in to the body per quantity consumed -
perhaps forstalling your bonk a bit longer. My riding weight is
around 175 lbs and I try to take 300 calories of fuel per hour. I
like Hammer gel for it's ease of absorbtion but have to mix it up with
solid food on long rides to avoid the empty stomach feeling.
Proteins take longer to absorb (as do fats) and slow the total
quantity of carbs that are passing through to the blood stream when
they are present. Still, each is necessary for long term fueling.
I've done 200k's on just gels but that is my limit. I need proteins
and fats to keep that sufficiently fuel feeling going over 200k. If
the ride is planned for >200k, proper fueling for that starts early in
the ride.
Each person's metabolism and stomach tolerance is different, right?
If fats are the thing that gets you through a long ride, then I'd say
consume them early in a ride while your carb stockpile is still high.
Same for proteins. Put them both in your carb-fuel mixture early and
don't wait for the bonk feeling to arrive. When bonking, a quickly
absorbed carb (like an energy gel) will fuel you until a better
balance can be established.
Here's a thought, if fats are the way to go: How about a fuel flask
with olive oil in it? How many calories is that? I heard tale of
poor Mediteranean farmers drinking a cup of olive oil in the morning
then working in the fields all day long. Good energy, lots of
calories, but they are concerned with the rate of absorbtion and their
pit stops are not so urban. An olive oil fueled, uh, release, may
become more urgent for a biker under such a fueling strategy.
In summary: More carbs! better carbs, protein and fats early in the
ride and..............practice, practice, practice!
Rich Bruner
NC Randonneurs
----------------------------
On Jul 23, 11:11 pm, Greg <greg.olmst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On a long ride, using a diet of carbs and protein, ...
, but it's easier to carry carbs on a bike than to carry fatty fuel.
And most sources of fatty
> Greg
NickBull
some quickly-digested carbohydrates in the bread and jam; some
complete protein from the combination of grains and legumes, and
plenty of fat in the peanut butter. I go through about three 500-
calorie pbj sandwiches per 200K. To get variation in taste, you can
use almond butter or other nut-butters and vary which sort of jam you
use. And they don't get skunked carrying them in hot weather the way
the Perpetuem does.
Wenzel coaching used to have some diet guidelines for ultra athletes
posted on their website, and included pbj as one of their recommended
event foods. I can't find those guidelines on their website, now, but
will see if I can find them at home.
Yvana van den Hork
Trust your body! It's telling you exactly what you need. You're losing
salts, hence the craving for salty Foods.
The further you are into a long ride, the lower HR will drop and the more
your body relies on fatty acids (and even ketones) to fuel your ride.
BE aware of the fact that after the 2hr mark, about 10% of your energy
requirements come from protein. Failing to get in enough protein = MUSCLE
WASTING!
The best solution is to put a mix of whey (isolate) & carbs into your drink
bottle to a ratio of 1 (for protein) to 4 (for carbs).
Good portable fatty foods are nuts (hazelnuts are nice) , pemmican (not sure
if this is for sale in the US at all, or just 'food from the past'. Nor do I
know how fat beef jerky is.
The only decent combination of fats & carbs is a Bounty. Coconut has easily
digested fats (MCT) that can act in a similar way as glucose does = reaching
your blood quite fast since digestion by bile acid is not required.
HTH
Yvana (haven't posted in eons!!)
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TOPIC: burning fat on a ride
http://groups.google.com/group/randon/browse_thread/thread/707fd65f185868f8?
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2008 8:11 pm
From: Greg
On a long ride, using a diet of carbs and protein, I can sometimes
bonk, and the only thing that helps is something with fat, such as a
chocolate milk, chicken tamale, fries, fried eggs, egg salad, etc.
I know that the body requires energy to burn fat. But is it better to
just up the carb intake or to consume more carbs/hr. I'm not
necessarily trying to lose weight on a ride, but it's easier to carry
carbs on a bike than to carry fatty fuel. And most sources of fatty
foods (found on the road) are foods I'd rather not eat. But they're
the only things that can get me back to feeling normal after hours on
the road.
Any thoughts/advice?
Greg
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Yvana van den Hork
MCT-oil. That's derived from coconut oil and has 100% MCT fats. It's often
used in clinical settings as it is easily absorbed.
We also have it in our Kabicel, a micellar casein/whey isolate blend along
with some inulin (this is a slower protein blend, useful as post-cycling
recovery PP-drink or night time protein source) but the MCT oil is also
very popular among people that are on a very low carb diet.
In any case.. it would be like 100 times more useful than olive oil to mix
it with your drinks when on a ride where you are supported.
One caveat, personally while I Love love coconut , I can't tolerate large
amounts of the MCTs. It's making me nauseous.. something about too many
fatty acids hitting the blood stream at the same time.
Same thing as for higher amounts of glucose/dextrose causeing too severe
blood sugar swings.
For training I'm liking IsoSpark a lot, which contains palatinose, a very
slow, but easily digested carb (disaccharide actually!)
Cheers
Yvana (yep.. full bore into supplements nowadays, and rarely if ever cycling
, only lifting)
Greg
month, I started out using Spiz, which has 94 grams of carbs (44g
complex, 7g fiber and 43g sugar), 20g protein, and 5g fat. After about
300K I was craving a Coke. Don't know why. But it made me feel great.
Thinking that I was getting tired of the mix, I switched to Carbo 1200
syrup and Amino acid tablets for protein. No fat.
At the beginning of day 2, I needed a fried egg sandwich and
vegetarian saugage to king of get going and a cheese/cracker/turkey
lunchables snack to get me fully up to speed. At the beginning of day
3 I had another fried egg sandwich, plus a bagel with cream cheese
before I stopped feeling weak.
I think my takeaway from the input is (a) rotate through spiz,
Sustained energy, and carbo pro between controls, and (b) eat whatever
my body wants while at controls, even if it's not something I'd ever
let my kids eat (carrot cake from a chevron station).
Thanks again.
Greg
George Evans
It's called "comfort food" for a reason. After a day of sucking down a
liquid diet, it's really no surprise that you were looking for something
you could sink your teeth into - literally.
Pizza is my favorite mid-ride food. Hey, it's got plenty of carbs and
no shortage of sodium!
Bob Kassel
Burke, I picked up some MCT powder and added it to my mixture of Eload
and Cytomax, and thought it was great. Problem was the MCT's would
slowly disolve the rubber and some of the plastic parts of my water
bottles! No kidding, the nipple part of the bottle would fall out
because the insides were eaten away! (the Zefal Magnum bottles) Now I
start off with a peanut butter and something sandwich, and if I don't
bring some along, don't have trouble finding something my gut
tolerates with some fat and protein, such as a sub sandwich.
Anyone looking for some MCT powder, I have a lifetime supply!
Bob
Ingle, Bruce
Most of our riders tend to crave some fat in their diet on longer rides; you can only deny your body of fat for so long. We often have summer sausage available at the Boston controles to fill this need, since it's shelf-stable and relatively cheap.
The majority of my calories on a ride are usually from fatty foods, but that's what works for me. Fats are nice because they have high mass and volumetric (as food, anyway) energy densities, so you can carry a lot of calories in a small/light volume.
I generally try to stick to less-processed foods; some of the fats I've been using this season include:
- Beef pemmican. The varieties from http://www.grasslandbeef.com/ are high quality and available in bulk, although a ziploc bag full of it in hot weather can appear a bit unappetizing. Generally about 100 Cal/oz, although the good stuff may be a bit more because of the high fat content.
- Coconut oil. In a gel flask works fine for warm, short rides; in a disposable container for longer ones. It's only liquid above 72°F; I suppose it might be possible to freeze it and use cubes, although I haven't tried it. About 250 Cal/oz.
- Hard boiled/pickled eggs. Some country stores have these. I prefer plain hard boiled to the pickled ones, although either will work. 70-80 Cal each, depending on size.
- Raw milk cheese. Ooey gooey goodness in a jersey pocket. The pasteurized stuff plugs up my lungs. I've occasionally found some at supermarkets (e.g. Price Chopper in Bennington, VT), but it's a rare find on a ride. 110 Cal/oz.
- Fresh Guacamole. Trader Joe's sells it in 1/2 lb packages; you can peel the top off and squeeze it out or freeze it and eat it as a slab. About 750 Cal/package.
- Nuts/trail mix. The main healthy, shelf-stable fat commonly available in convenience stores -- I can always get nuts on a ride, so I never start with them in my pockets. 170 Cal/oz.
- Sardines in olive oil. Yeah, I know, gross....sigh. Impossible to eat on the bike, but easy to manage in a quick meal at a grocery store. About 210 Cal/can with the oil. Vacuum-packed smoked salmon is good too, but relatively expensive.
I'll usually supplement these with dried and fresh fruits along the way; I actually don't eat much starch. If I want some starch, I'll usually pick up a bell pepper or some celery and eat it with some hummus at a grocery store.
Purified sugars are bad news for me. Like pasteurized dairy, they tend to plug up my lungs.
- Bruce