Garmin question

[Scott Allen]

Is there any way to adjust how soon a Garmin gives you turn notification?
My 800 tends to beep and notify of a turn when I'm right on it or almost past it.
For example I can be half way through an intersection and it will beep notifying me of a turn, by then it's usually a bit too late to safely take that turn and I end up having to go around the block or find a safe place to turn around.

Thanks,
 

Scott

[Scott Allen]

Thanks, I'll take a look at that.

 

Scott

---

From: Mitchel Schoenfeld <oksure...@mac.com>
To: Scott Allen <sall...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Randon] Garmin question

In BikeRoute Toaster, you can set a turn warning distance. I'm not sure about RideWithGPS.   The Garmin itself doesn't seem to be that smart.

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[Daniel Ridings]

It seems you have to do this for every individual route, not "once and for all".

1) Choose a route

2) Press on the wrench, the "tool"

3) Make sure "Turn guidance" is on.

That works for me. I get a warning about 50 - 100 meters in advance.

It doesn't seem you can configure the unit to always do this. I have to do it for each route that I use. Once you do it, it seems to remember it for that route, but not for the next new one.

Hope this helps. It took a few routes for me to get this to work. I recognize what you describe.

Best,

Daniel

[Susan Otcenas]

>>I'm not sure about RideWithGPS.   The Garmin itself doesn't seem to be that smart.

RideWithGPS has this functionality as well, if you download a tcx file.  It defaults to 30 meters.  I find that to be just a little shy of useful, though, and would recommend 50-75 meters. 

 

Susan

 

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[Roland Bevan]

If you're a premium RideWithGPS member you can change how far in advance you'll get the warning before you download the TCX file. I usually increase it to 100 or 150 meters. Another thing I've found useful on my 800 is to add the "distance to next turn" field on the map screen; this lets me glance at the screen and see how long I have before I need to start paying attention.
  -Roland

[Scott Allen]

Thanks Susan,

Yeah it does seem to be just a tad bit too late for me, and I'm not super speedy, so I can imagine for someone who is faster, it would be even less useful at that distance.

 

Scott

---

From: Susan Otcenas <su...@teamestrogen.com>
To: ran...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Randon] Garmin question

[Scott Allen]

Thanks Roland, I'll take a look at that.  That feature alone might make a premium membership worth while.

 

Scott

---

From: Roland Bevan <r...@alouysius.net>
To: Susan Otcenas <su...@teamestrogen.com>
Cc: ran...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:40 AM

Subject: RE: [Randon] Garmin question

[Susan Otcenas]

>>Are you saying that you can change the warning distance with Ride with GPS?  If so, how?

Yes.

 

1) Go to any route page

2) Click the "Export" tab on the right side of the screen

3) The first option under "TCX Course" is a check box labeled "Notify before turn?"

4) Make sure the box is checked.

5) Keep (or change) the the default "meters" in advance field. It defaults to 30 meters, but you can change to whatever distance works for you.

6) Click the TCX Course link and the file will download to your computer to be copied to the New Files folder on your Garmin.

 

 

Alternatively, if you are a premium member, you can use the direct write feature.  Choose the "Garmin Write" option.   Hit the button for TCX format, choose your # of meters warning (again, it defaults to 30 meters) and download directly. (Note that if you download as a GPX format instead of TCX, you are not given the "meters in advance" option.  Only in TCX format do you get the option for advance warnings.)

 

Hope this helps!

 

Susan

 

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877-310-4592

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---

From: Mitchel Schoenfeld [mailto:oksure...@mac.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:32 AM
To: Susan Otcenas

Subject: Re: [Randon] Garmin question

Susan:  Are you saying that you can change the warning distance with Ride with GPS?  If so, how?

[Susan Otcenas]

It's been pointed out to me that there is no checkbox if you are not a premium member.

 

I don't remember what it cost me to join RWGPS, but I don't recall it being much.  I think it's an awesome service, super easy to use, and I like to support such websites with my dollars.  (In fact, RWGPS is so good, I can't figure out why anyone is still using bikeroutetoaster, which IMHO I think is crap in comparison.)

 

Susan

 

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---

From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Otcenas
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:21 AM
To: ran...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: [Randon] Garmin question

[Mitchel Schoenfeld]

$80/year to be a Ride With GPS Premium account member

On May 23, 2013, at 9:29 AM, Susan Otcenas <su...@teamestrogen.com> wrote:

It's been pointed out to me that there is no checkbox if you are not a premium member.

 

I don't remember what it cost me to join RWGPS, but I don't recall it being much.  I think it's an awesome service, super easy to use, and I like to support such websites with my dollars.  (In fact, RWGPS is so good, I can't figure out why anyone is still using bikeroutetoaster, which IMHO I think is crap in comparison.)

 

Susan

 

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Susan Otcenas

Team Estrogen, Inc.

www.TeamEstrogen.com

877-310-4592

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---

From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:randon@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Otcenas

Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:21 AM
To: ran...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Randon] Garmin question

>>Are you saying that you can change the warning distance with Ride with GPS?  If so, how?

Yes.

 

1) Go to any route page

2) Click the "Export" tab on the right side of the screen

3) The first option under "TCX Course" is a check box labeled "Notify before turn?"

4) Make sure the box is checked.

5) Keep (or change) the the default "meters" in advance field. It defaults to 30 meters, but you can change to whatever distance works for you.

6) Click the TCX Course link and the file will download to your computer to be copied to the New Files folder on your Garmin.

 

 

Alternatively, if you are a premium member, you can use the direct write feature.  Choose the "Garmin Write" option.   Hit the button for TCX format, choose your # of meters warning (again, it defaults to 30 meters) and download directly. (Note that if you download as a GPX format instead of TCX, you are not given the "meters in advance" option.  Only in TCX format do you get the option for advance warnings.)

 

Hope this helps!

 

Susan

 

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Susan Otcenas

Team Estrogen, Inc.

www.TeamEstrogen.com

877-310-4592

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Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!

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***********************************************

 

---

From: Mitchel Schoenfeld [mailto:oksurewhynot@mac.com]

[Susan Otcenas]

Thanks, Mitchel!  That sounds about right.

 

For sure, I get $80 in value from that service.   I know that's not in everyone's budget, but for me, it's a bit like sending my money in to support public radio.   RWGPS provides most of it's services free to everyone, but we all know that nothing is really free.   It costs money for them to maintain that site, to do regular updates, add features, and those folks need to make a living, too.      It's just two guys (both from Oregon, btw) who make it all happen.  http://ridewithgps.com/support    I don't know them, and have no affiliation with them.  I just want them to be successful because I like the service.  So, I don't mind paying the premium membership so that the service remains available to all.   

 

If you haven't used RWGPS, give it a try.  It's good stuff!  Even if you don't own a GPS, it's a great route planning tool.

 

Susan

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Team Estrogen, Inc.

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877-310-4592

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---

From: Mitchel Schoenfeld [mailto:oksure...@mac.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:31 AM
To: Susan Otcenas
Cc: ran...@googlegroups.com

[David Baxter]

Here's what I do, which doesn't require a premium membership. These things are so darn finicky I can't guarantee it will work for you, but it might be worth a try.

1. On the Garmin, set these System Settings

• Spanner>System>Routing

• Calculate Routes for - BICYCLE

• Guidance Method - OFF ROAD (I think this is the crucial bit for some weird reason?)

• Recalculate - OFF

2. Make a course on ridewithgps.com.

3. Add custom cues for road hazards, etc. at the point where you want to be notified about them. Often this is a little before you actually get to them.

4. Export as TCX.

5. Optional: Open TCX file in a text processor, and edit the TotalTimeSeconds field to the number of seconds you expect to take to ride the course.

6. Copy or move the TCX file into GARMIN | Garmin | NewFiles. Note: you may need to do one file at a time.

7. Unmount the Garmin, start it up, and set these Course Settings for the new course:

• Menu>Courses>Choose course>Spanner

• Turn Guidance - ON (obviously)

• Virtual Partner - OFF

• Off Course Warnings - ON (because they are handy!)

• Map Display > Course Points -OFF (I think this also might be crucial)

---

From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Otcenas

Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 9:21 AM
To: ran...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Randon] Garmin question

>>Are you saying that you can change the warning distance with Ride with GPS?  If so, how?

Yes.

 

1) Go to any route page

2) Click the "Export" tab on the right side of the screen

3) The first option under "TCX Course" is a check box labeled "Notify before turn?"

4) Make sure the box is checked.

5) Keep (or change) the the default "meters" in advance field. It defaults to 30 meters, but you can change to whatever distance works for you.

6) Click the TCX Course link and the file will download to your computer to be copied to the New Files folder on your Garmin.

 

 

Alternatively, if you are a premium member, you can use the direct write feature.  Choose the "Garmin Write" option.   Hit the button for TCX format, choose your # of meters warning (again, it defaults to 30 meters) and download directly. (Note that if you download as a GPX format instead of TCX, you are not given the "meters in advance" option.  Only in TCX format do you get the option for advance warnings.)

 

Hope this helps!

 

Susan

 

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Susan Otcenas

Team Estrogen, Inc.

www.TeamEstrogen.com

877-310-4592

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Follow our TE fan page on Facebook!

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From: Mitchel Schoenfeld [mailto:oksure...@mac.com]

[Daniel Ridings]

I think part of the problem is using the various web services. I am a premium member of Ridewithgps but I've only managed to get downloads from there to work one time. Never could figure out what I did to make it work.

Then I went over to Basecamp ... much, much, much better. With Basecamp, you create routes, not tracks. Tracks have hundreds of points (only got the cue sheet in ridewithgps to work once). Routes contain "way points".

When I use Basecamp and "way points", I get the turn by turn navigation, prompts about upcoming turns at least 50 meters in advance AND (for me the best part), I can set a field in the display on the Edge 800 (and the etrex vista hcx) for "Distance to next" and I get the distance to the next "way point" or "peak of of hill" or whatever I used as a "way point" in Basecamp. Once you get used to Basecamp, (or MapSource, but it is no longer supported), you'll never go back. I now use ridewithgps only for logging brevets I've done, not for planning them.

Basecamp is available for OSX and for Windows. Both are excellent and work almost the same way.

I use Open Street Maps (OSM). Great combination, particularly when you need to force your way through populated cities. The Openfietsmap (for cycling) can route you through bike paths and keep you away from 6 lane highways :-)

http://www.openfietsmap.nl/

Your mileage might vary, as they say.

Daniel

On Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:43:10 PM UTC+2, sehtzek wrote:

[Scott Allen]

Thanks, I'll take a look at that one.

 

Scott

---

From: Daniel Ridings <dlri...@gmail.com>
To: ran...@googlegroups.com
Cc: SRCC Chatty <SRC...@lists.sonic.net>; Scott Allen <sall...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:29 PM
Subject: [Randon] Re: Garmin question

--

[Kole Kantner]

Daniel,

How does Basecamp work for creating routes on bike paths that are not on the Open Street Maps?  Does the Garmin try to route you back to the nearest road?  Or does it gracefully let you ride off the known road until you return to a navigable path again?

Kole

--

[Daniel Ridings]

Well, I use Openfietsmap, a cycle map based on OSM. My problem has been the other way around. Somewhere along the line there is a mismatch between Basecamp+Openfietsmap and Garmin Edge 800 (and Garmin etrex Vista HCx) + Openfietsmap. Basecamp and Edge/etrex seem to route a little differently.

So when I look at my route in Basecamp, all looks well. But when I get out on the road, I find that Edge and etrex try to route me over to bike paths that Basecamp didn't give priority. It's never far off. Bike paths and roads don't usually deviate that much from each other, but for GPS, 20 meters is "off route".

So Edge and etrex try to get me on bike paths when I am perfectly happy with a road. We're not talking about a major problem. It happened twice on my last 300 km brevet and it happened on familiar territory, so I could just keep taking the road and reply "no" to "recalculate the route". Once they met up again, the units just reported "route found" (ok, mine is set for Swedish so I don't know what the English would have been). If I had followed the Edge or Etrex, all would have been ok, unless there was a secret control at that point :-) So it wasn't a major issue.

Best,

Daniel

[Roland Bevan]

I think this is why the RideWithGPS website recommends using the TCX file format for the Edge 800, as it creates a track. The Garmin does not try to route at all, it just follows the track, tells you if you're off course, and gives you the embedded cue sheet directions as they occur. Using a route (with waypoints) and having the Garmin do its own routing seems to be the cause of some of the issues I have heard where the Garmin's route does not match the one generated online.

There are of course drawbacks to using the TCX track. Since the Garmin is not routing, if you go off course and then return to the course it tries to figure out where you are in the track, and if you are on the outbound leg of an out-and-back course it tends to overshoot and advance all the way to the same position on the inbound leg. A few weeks ago on the Davis 600km this happened at least 3 times on the outbound leg (usually when I stopped at a control) and each time I had to stop the course and start it again to recover my position in the track.

  -Roland

[Susan Otcenas]

>>>I think this is why the RideWithGPS website recommends using the TCX file format for the Edge 800, as it creates a track. The Garmin does not try to route at all, it just follows the track, tells you if you're off course, and gives you the embedded cue sheet directions as they occur. Using a route (with waypoints) and having the Garmin do its own routing seems to be the cause of some of the issues I have heard where the Garmin's route does not match the one generated online.

To avoid re-routing, you need to turn off Recalculation in the settings of your Garmin.  If you leave Recalculation on, when you go off-course the Garmin will simply re-route you and not necessarily tell you that it's doing so.   To stay on course, turn OFF recalculation and turn ON off-course warnings.   Then you will never deviate from the route/track.

 

Susan

 

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Team Estrogen, Inc.

www.TeamEstrogen.com

877-310-4592

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---

From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roland Bevan
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:59 PM
To: Daniel Ridings
Cc: ran...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Randon] Re: Garmin question

[joekr...@comcast.net]

I make it a point to put in out and back routes in two segments to avoid the unit getting confused. It means loading in another course at the half way point of the ride. 

---

From: "Roland Bevan" <r...@alouysius.net>

To: "Daniel Ridings" <dlri...@gmail.com>
Cc: ran...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:58:51 PM

Subject: Re: [Randon] Re: Garmin question

[Roland Bevan]

Yup, that's my plan from now on. :-) 

  -Roland

[Peter Mathews]

Not quite in the mainstream of this thread but I'd like people to note that in the Premium account the ability to produce PDFs of route sheets is a real bonus for ride organizers.  The Great Southern Randonnee 1200 sheets came straight out of RideWithGPS - after quite a bit of careful editing to make the instructions short, and accurate.

Peter

[Ian Hoffman]

Having had my 800 for a year now and loving it, this didn't sound right, certainly not what I've experienced in regards to using routing and turn instructions. I get one notice about 600' before a turn, and a second notice about 120' from the turn.

So I went out with the intent to play with routing again on my ride today. And with the discussion of TCX files, I used one of those instead of my usual GPX.

Short version: I think the root problem is not having 'Turn Guidance' turned on for the selected course. (a setting to be changed for EACH course you load, unfortunately)

Longer version: I went out and had no problems with my 800 giving me the usual turn notice in plenty of time. I did notice an extra screen with a list of the turns, thought that curious. And I noticed it beeped again right IN the turn and displayed the turn and road name. 

Hmm...  I stopped the course, went back into Course settings (spanner) and turned off 'Turn Guidance' for that course. I then started the course again (Course found, hooray) and rode on. As I got to the next turn, I had no notice of it until I was in the middle making my (already known to me) turn. It did this on the next couple as well. Stop the course, put 'Turn Guidance' back on, restart course, and presto...  600' and 120' warning notices again.

Oh, and I think I'll stick with my GPX files, I don't need the extra page of instructions, you can get that in other ways; and I didn't care for the third notice and name just as I was making a turn.  But, whatever works.

-- Ian

--

[Gerry Elam]

Bikeroutetoaster.com will allow this, you can specify the warning distance and it's free.  

[Daniel Ridings]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 12:16:58 AM UTC+2, Ian Hoffman wrote:

Hmm...  I stopped the course, went back into Course settings (spanner) and turned off 'Turn Guidance' for that course. I then started the course again (Course found, hooray) and rode on. As I got to the next turn, I had no notice of it until I was in the middle making my (already known to me) turn. It did this on the next couple as well. Stop the course, put 'Turn Guidance' back on, restart course, and presto...  600' and 120' warning notices again.

Oh, and I think I'll stick with my GPX files, I don't need the extra page of instructions, you can get that in other ways; and I didn't care for the third notice and name just as I was making a turn.  But, whatever works.

Many thanks for that summary. I went by trial and error, but not as methodically as you did.

I only use GPX, for no other reason than that is what I have gotten to work consistently. TCX would probably work consistently now that you've taken away a few question marks. But ... I seem to remember getting that extra page, the summary of the turn-by-turn route, the cue sheet, even with GPX. In my case, it is a summary of the way points and possibly an intermediate point that the unit might have inserted for routing. Won't swear by it until I check the way you did.

When I enter the way points, I use the organizers cue sheet. I like the "distance to next" field that can be configured into the screen. Then I compare my map to the organizers to make sure I don't have to put in an extra one in order to keep the Edge from taking a short cut. I rarely have to do that. That's not praise for the unit, but praise for the local organizer :-) So my way points and that extra screen of turn directions are basically the same as the cue sheet (which I always have close to hand anyway ... "belt AND suspenders").

Daniel 

[Ted Shwartz]

Hello Scott

    The Garmin. GPS units set their warning beeps according to your mode of transport in routing preferences. I believe it is set for about 30 seconds warning, based on expected travel speed (the mode of transport). Working backwards it means that automobile mode will give you an earlier warning in time, than bicycle mode. The downside of this is that your predicted time to next turn will be off, as you will be traveling much slower that e GPS expects (bicycle speed vs car speed)

    A better solution, but requiring more work it to put a waypoint into your routes in Garmin Basemap, which is the point where you want to be notified. The real customization for getting your Garmin GPS to work the way you want will lie in Basemap, rather than RideWithGps.

Regards

Ted

--

[Neurobe]

I've been using an Android app for a while now - Bike Computer Pro 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.rooehler.bikecomputer.pro&hl=en

It has nice on-line off-line mapping abilities, but what has prompted me to post on this subject is that I notice, as of yesterday, it can speak turn indications. My eyes are not what they might be, and so for some time I have been using BCP's verbal indication "you have left the trail" as a prompt to squint at the screen. Seems the turn inidications do work for the ride with gps files, so I look forward to giving it a try on the 300. And yes, to get the required life out of my Smartphone, I use double size phone batteries and carry a spare or two. But hey, it gives me directions, Velobeats, an emergency phone all in one. And games to play whilst waiting for the better half to come collect me at the back of whoop-whoop when a ride has proved too much. And real-time position reporting if I want it.

It comes in an iPhone version as well but not sure whether it does turn indications yet. [My iPhone is too valuable to take cycling...]

Cost me $5.99. How much was your Garmin? :-)

bruce 

[Charles Coldwell]

On May 30, 2013, at 12:46 AM, Neurobe wrote:

> And yes, to get the required life out of my Smartphone, I use double size phone batteries and carry a spare or two.

I've been using one of these

http://www.brightbikelabs.com/products/bright-bike-revolution

very simple and easy to use, although I don't use it and the generator light at the same time (haven't tried wiring them in parallel).

--
Charles M. Coldwell, W1CMC
"Turn on, log in, tune out"
Belmont, Massachusetts, New England (FN42jj)

[Neurobe]

I've had a couple of back channels on the subject of Smartphones on handlebars, and yes it don't come easy.

My solution is 

1. bar extenders to allow the phone to be mounted forward and upwards closer to the face - my double lights fit here also when used...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bike-Handlebar-Extender-Mount-Set-Super-Light-80g-Connect-Carbon-Double-Extender-/290897632075?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Activity_Monitoring_MJ&hash=item43bad99b4b

2. a waterproof holder (that is a tight but do-able fite with 3500mAH oversize batteries on my HTC myTouch Android phone) - also fits iPhone - and has an additional bar extend where I hang light batteries....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBERA-Waterproof-Smartphone-Case-with-Bike-Mount-IB-PB7-Q2-iPod-iphone-4-HTC-/140676978879?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20c10058bf

3. A 4 inch adaptor cable - hands-free to regular phones adaptor - that allows headphones to be connected disconnected without having to break the waterproof seal

[no link to this - its an iPhone accessory]

4. Back of the neck headphones which stay out of the way, don't fall out, and prove to be reasonably comfortable.

Then, to get a 200km ride from a single battery, I run with the screen off, just listening to voice prompts, and turn on the screen as necessary. Its the screen that consumes most of the power, you can have music going continually.

Disclaimer: this is a solution for the visually impaired. Yes, un-muffled hearing is important to maximise rider safety. [I generally ride quiet areas, and if necessary pop off one ear piece.]

bruce

[Neurobe]

Charles,

I satisfice with just one bike which is a racing bike. Your post got me thinking tho - the equivalent arrangement would be to power the smartphone from those giant lights batteries hanging off the bar-extenders. Would require an '8V battery pack round pin plug' to micro USB 5V out. Haven't found one of those yet. It's entirely do-able.

bruce

[Roy Yates]

I think Susan is right about ridewithgps being really excellent and she didn't mention that it also has a really slick and easy route editing interface. If you use ridewithgps but have not edited a route, go watch the youtube video to see how easy it is.

.