Purely for my curiosity..

18 views
Skip to first unread message

Dark Horse

unread,
May 26, 2008, 3:22:52 PM5/26/08
to randon
Good morning,
I'm curious: What do people's various rigs weigh in at? I took a
chance to weight mine a
month or so ago, and with the generator, one full bottle, and a light
(200k/commuting) load it went ~36lb. Meaning that with two bottles and
a longer-distance loading it would go over 40.

I'm simply curious how that compares to others' rigs.

Eamon

Emily O'Brien

unread,
May 26, 2008, 4:02:26 PM5/26/08
to Dark Horse, randon
At the start of last year's 600k, I weighed my bike before I left (weighed myself standing on the scale, then weighed myself holding the bike and subtracted the former from the latter) at I think 37 or 38 lbs. That was with two full bottles, handlebar bag, saddlebag, lights, batteries, etc. I do make some effort not to carry too much that's gratuitously heavy (the only exception is my saddlebag mount, which is the Carradice SQR and weighs probably a pound and a half by itself), although I like to carry some amount of spare warm/dry clothing. When I really want it, having a dry long sleeved jersey or an extra pair of arm warmers is well worth the weight penalty of carrying it!
My bike weighs around 22 lbs by itself with fenders but without lights or bottles; so all that other stuff adds around 15-16 lbs.
However, I basically don't put anything except empty wrappers in my jersey pockets, and don't carry a camelback. So while you're asking, you might take into account all the stuff people carry on their persons, as well as on their bikes. I could certainly fit everything I put in my handlebar bag into my pockets, and probably some of the stuff in my saddlebag as well if I were so inclined, but I prefer to leave it on the bike.

Emily "Sixteen, err, pounds, and whaddaya get?" O'Brien

Lynne Fitz

unread,
May 26, 2008, 4:15:08 PM5/26/08
to randon
My husband pointed out that I could lose 5 lbs (at least) off my rando
bike, and I'd be faster. I doubt it, but there you are. I also no
longer use a Camelback (torturous shoulder knots, anyone?), so all the
stuff that went in there is on the bike somewhere, except my wallet
and cell phone. Sometimes my camera.

The Brooks saddle ALONE adds a big chunk of weight. The Schmidt hub
adds weight. The fenders add weight. The front and rear racks add
weight. Although, to be honest if mine was just a rando bike and not
a rando/commuter bike, the rear rack would be gone. Handlebar bag and
Carradice Barley bag.

Spare tubes. Spare tire. Tools and a few spare parts. Extra gloves/
socks/shorts. A couple of sandwiches and fruit. Two full water
bottles. Small first aid kit. Sunscreen. Rarely, a cable and lock
(for rando, anyway. Always for riding around, along with the u-lock)

I'm afraid to weigh it.

On May 26, 1:02 pm, "Emily O'Brien" <emilyonwhe...@emilysdomain.org>
wrote:
> >  Eamon- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Charles Coldwell

unread,
May 26, 2008, 4:19:41 PM5/26/08
to Dark Horse, randon
On May 26, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Dark Horse wrote:

>
> I'm curious: What do people's various rigs weigh in at?

My Bob Jackson in post-weekend-joyride configuration (empty bottles,
Carradice Nelson saddlebag with tools, spares, rainjacket, fenders,
lights and rear rack) comes in at 40lb (18kg) exactly. In full dress
1200k configuration, with handlebar bag, three full bottles, fenders,
lights, rear rack, Carradice Longflap Camper with tools, spares, full
rain gear (jacket and pants), and emergency rations, it probably
comes close to 50lb (23kg). When I rode it across the US in 2001,
with a full set of front and rear panniers and camping gear, it was
over 100lbs (45kg).

> Meaning that with two bottles and a longer-distance loading it
> would go over 40.

Weight weenie.

Chip

--

Charles M. Coldwell, W1CMC
"Turn on, log in, tune out"
Somerville, Massachusetts, New England (FN42kj)

GPG ID: 852E052F
GPG FPR: 77E5 2B51 4907 F08A 7E92 DE80 AFA9 9A8F 852E 052F


NickBull

unread,
May 26, 2008, 5:23:42 PM5/26/08
to randon
Weight of bike w/fenders, Schmidt wheel and E6, rear lights, and 3
empty water bottles is 27.5 pounds; with full water bottles, 32
pounds.

Full rig is ~53 pounds with all three water bottles full, 400K worth
of food, standard repair-kit items for cycle and self, GPS/camera/
phone, clothing suitable for temperatures ranging from freezing to
105+ (with or without rain), and handlebar bag and Carradice to carry
it all. Plus ~3 pounds of bike shoes, helmet, shorts, wool short-
sleeved shirt, socks, etc. that I'm always wearing regardless of what
else I put on from the Carradice.

Like Emily, I always wonder when people say how light their bike is
whether they are counting the stuff they carry in their pockets or
camelback. I think the only "proper" measure is the difference in
weight between the naked randonneur, and the same randonneur holding
their bike at the start of the 600.

Bob Kassel

unread,
May 26, 2008, 5:53:19 PM5/26/08
to randon
I only weighed my bike twice. Prior to an unsupported 1000 in 2006
without water bottles it was 48 lbs. Did the same ride one year
later, got it down to 39 lbs.
> > GPG FPR: 77E5 2B51 4907 F08A 7E92  DE80 AFA9 9A8F 852E 052F- Hide quoted text -

jake Kassen

unread,
May 26, 2008, 6:28:02 PM5/26/08
to Dark Horse, randon
Dark Horse wrote:

> I'm simply curious how that compares to others' rigs.
>

Around 45lbs from what I can tell. I carry lots of food in my pockets
but I would be surprised if that added more then 1/2 a pound at the start.

According to BQ I could go a whole lot faster if I cut some of the fat
from the bike, though the heavy things are hard to loose and keep the
same level of comfort and convenience.

I've considered going without water bottles. Not only would the bike be
much lighter, I'd be much faster as I raced to the next control to get a
drink.

Jake

Spencer Klaassen

unread,
May 26, 2008, 8:14:43 PM5/26/08
to randon, Dan Clinkenbeard
>
> Dark Horse wrote:
>
>> I'm simply curious how that compares to others' rigs.
>>
>
I didn't weigh my bike before the nasty 600 km in the Kansas City area
over the weekend but I bet it was over 40 lbs. We had terrible winds,
down pours as well as hot humid weather. I thought when I packed that
I brought far too much (my handlebar bag was overstuffed). I found
out that I didn't over pack as I used arm warmers, leg warmers, rain
coat, wool base layer, wool cap, toe covers, wind vest, all three
water bottles (I ran out of fluids twice in one long stretch), many
Clif Bars, GU packs, powdered Ensure, three spare tubes, tire patches,
and beef jerky. I just wish I had a regular wool jersey while riding
in the rain (over 8 hours of it).

Somehow, despite all the extra gear, I had one of my fastest times on
the 600 km due to the favorable tailwinds on Sunday. IIt could have
been that I am in decent shape (1,900 km in brevets in 15 days) but it
is really hard to tell.

If I had not been prepared for the worst, I would have been many of
the people who would have not attempted the ride. I have read that
over 50% of the challenge with brevets is getting to the starting
line. The extra gear helped Danny and I make it to the start and
finish together. How the Myers' couple did it on their tandem with
far less gear is amazing.

Regards,
Spencer
St Joseph, MO

Scott Peterson

unread,
May 26, 2008, 8:56:20 PM5/26/08
to randon
I have yet to weigh any of the bikes I've ridden on brevets, but I'm
confident that each one weighed less than I do.

Scott P

RUSA2691

unread,
May 26, 2008, 10:42:14 PM5/26/08
to randon
I don't know what my bike weighs at the start of, say, a 400K, but I
do know that after a lot of trial and error, I really can't think of
anything else I'd want to leave home....Oh, except that one thing---
all TEN POUNDS of it---I can't seem to leave home, though I've tried
and tried: My %$#@! spare tire.
Message has been deleted

Homey

unread,
May 27, 2008, 12:44:36 PM5/27/08
to randon
Mine was 27lbs when I started PBP and pretty close to that on the
other 1200k's I've done, not counting the cloths I was wearing. I
don't use all the bags, fenders and stuff on my bike.

Jan, why would you need more tools and spare parts for a carbon bike
that you wouldn't use on any other bike?

WMdeR

unread,
May 27, 2008, 12:49:33 PM5/27/08
to randon
I ride two different bicycles on brevets.

My cyclotouring bicycle, set up with 30-622 wheels, full fenders,
generator light and redundant rear LED lights, front and rear racks
and décaleur, weighs 26.5lbs+/-0.5lb. With a handlebar bag, food for
400K, tools, spare clothing, and three full waterbottles, it weighs
around 35lbs.

My road racing bike weighs 18lb with 25-622 clincher wheels. Set up
with a frame pump mounted to the left seatstay, clip-on "race blade"
fenders, battery lights (dual cateye HL-500II with lithium batteries
taped to the drops, dual Cateye LED rear lights with lithium batteries
mounted to the seatstays), small empty seatbag, and klickfix handlebar
bag adapter, it weighs around 22lb. With a handlebar bag, food for
400K, tools, spare clothing, and two full waterbottles, it is around
30lb.

If my road racing bike had been set up for integrated fenders,
décaleur, front rack, and lights, it would weigh about a pound less
when fully equipped and loaded, assuming construction methods and
components did not substantially change, but it would have much more
effective and durable fenders, improved handling with a handlebar bag,
more convenient handlebar bag/map holder system, better lights, and
many fewer concerns with adapters and zipties.

Best Regards,

WMdeR.
William M. deRosset
RUSA2401

On May 27, 8:54 am, Jan Heine <hein...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> My Alex Singer weighs empty about 25.3 lbs. That is with lights,
> fenders, front rack, spare spokes, bottle cages and pump (even a
> Brooks saddle) - everything that is on the bike. Not a piece of
> carbon or ti on that bike, but everything is only as heavy as it
> needs to be.
>
> At the start of PBP, with a handlebar bag, three water bottles and
> food for the first 300 km (no stops planned until then), spare tubes,
> tools, it weighed closer to 34 lbs. However, it was warm, so most of
> my clothes were in the handlebar bag, and thus added to the weight.
>
> When I carry all the food I need for a 600, it probably adds another 5 lbs.
>
> For the Summer 08 issue of Bicycle Quarterly, I tested a carbon
> randonneur bike, which empty was a full 3.5 lbs. lighter than my
> Singer. However, calculating the rider's weight at the start of PBP,
> it came to at least as much as my Singer, because they carried a
> heavier bag, and more tools and spare parts.
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 140 Lakeside Ave #C
> Seattle WA 98122www.bikequarterly.com

Ciclismo

unread,
May 27, 2008, 1:18:22 PM5/27/08
to randon
I weighed my bike (at a bike shop) fully loaded prior to PBP. With
200 miles worth of food plus two liters of water, spare clothes,
tools, Brooks seat, substantial wheels, lights, and carefully selected
crud it was 29 pounds. I consider myself a weight weenie but observed
many other unsupported riders at PBP with a little less gear and a few
with a lot less. My load looked about average for the 80 hour group.

If anyone cares, this is what I carried on PBP (all crammed into a
lightweight Ortlieb seat bag and jersey pockets):

Drugs
a. E-Tabs 40/600KM
b. Ibuprofen 20
c. Antihistamine 4
d. Sunscreen

Fuel/Water
a. Perpetuam
b. Cliff Bars
c. Hammer Gel

Paperwork
a. Cash, check, credit card
b. Route sheet
c. Drivers License, health insurance card
d. Pen
e. Phone

Tools
a. 2 Tubes
b. Spoke Wrench
c. Spokes in seat post
d. Chain Tool
e. Allen Set
f. New patch kit
g. Mini pump
h. Freehub cracker
i. Swiss Army Knife
j. 2 Zip Ties
k. Tire Boots
l. Shift cable
m. Headset sealed bearings (proprietary model)

Hygiene
a. Wipe
b. Toothbrush/paste
c. Chamois cream

Clothing
a. Cold weather headband
b. Arm warmers
c. Leg warmers
d. Booties
e. Rain Jacket
f. Gloves
h. Reflective sash
i. Ankle band

Lighting
a. 2 mounted lights (Eos. One was a spare)
b. 1 helmet light (Eos)
c. 2 rear mounted blinkies
d. Spare N batteries for rear blinkies
e. 6 AAA Lithium for 1200

Eye protection
a. Sunglasses
b. Clear lenses

Other
a. Camera


Cheers,

Ryan

Charles Lathe

unread,
May 27, 2008, 3:50:28 PM5/27/08
to randon
I finished the Audax Atlanta 600 this weekend and returned home
yesterday evening. I haven't touched my bike (Coho Randonneuse with
Schmidt hub, Berthoud GB-25 bag, fenders, etc.) and I just now weighed
it, so my at the finish weight with a half bottle of water is 34
pounds. There is still a little food in the bag and my arm warmers
and vest along with tools, spares, tubes, camera, etc. It was hot and
I didn't need to carry the vest or arm warmers, but they aren't much
weight and could have been a great comfort. The weight changed
throughout the brevet as I stocked and depleted my liquid and food
load, but this was probably the lightest it got except maybe when I
came into the overnight and I was ready for a major re-supply. I
never weighed my bike after a brevet before. This is kind of a fun
thread. I used a bathroom scale that I think is pretty accurate.

Chuck Lathe
Franklinville, NC
cohobicycles.com
Message has been deleted

Mike Tsoi

unread,
May 28, 2008, 10:56:48 AM5/28/08
to randon
I only have one long distance bike and it's a late 70s Colnago Mexico
in what looks like a sportif model. It has eyelets for fenders and
space for them too.

My bike weighed in at 32 pounds with fenders, handlebar bag (clothes,
food, led lighting, spare batteries, mini pump), saddle bag (tools,
tubes, ID), gps/bike computer and 2 full water bottles. This was set
up for a 300k and everything I used was loaded on the bike. I like
having my jersey empty when I ride.

Thanks for starting this post. This is my first year doing long
distance riding and came from club rides so I had quite a bit of
weight weenie in me. That slowly went away when I got my Brooks
saddle. Seeing the actual bike weight in full use (not catalog
weight) makes me feel much better.

Mike

Ingle, Bruce

unread,
May 28, 2008, 11:21:43 AM5/28/08
to randon digest subscribers
15.8 lb before BMB 2002 without any ancillary equipment, probably
another pound for lights. I generally carry luggage on my body instead
of the bike; I was under 200 lb with the bike and everything else I'd
need for the ride.

Current rig is probably ~20-21 lb but should be much more comfortable --
big tires, 531 frame with long stays, leather saddle, fenders, etc.

- Bruce

Dave Cramer

unread,
May 28, 2008, 11:29:06 AM5/28/08
to randon
Bruce, how many gears did the BMB 2002 bike have? And were any of them fixed?

People who have seen some of Bruce's bikes know you need to ask these
questions very carefully! ;)

Dave

Mike Biswell

unread,
May 28, 2008, 11:39:27 AM5/28/08
to Randon Google Group

>From: Jan H
>To: ran...@googlegroups.com


>Subject: [Randon] Purely for my curiosity..


>"The only tools I carry are three puny Mafac wrenches..."

Brings back memories of that old Mafac toolkit. Nice. :-)


>"...a heavy 6 mm wrench"

= 1 ounce. :-)


Regards!
Mike

Charles Coldwell

unread,
May 28, 2008, 12:09:03 PM5/28/08
to Dave Cramer, randon
On Wed, 28 May 2008, Dave Cramer wrote:

>
> Bruce, how many gears did the BMB 2002 bike have? And were any of them fixed?
>
> People who have seen some of Bruce's bikes know you need to ask these
> questions very carefully! ;)

Indeed, you well might also ask, "How many chains?"

Homey

unread,
May 28, 2008, 1:51:11 PM5/28/08
to randon
The reason I asked Jan was this statement you made:

<i>However, calculating the rider's weight at the start of PBP,
it came to at least as much as my Singer, because they carried a
heavier bag, and more tools and spare parts. </i>

Why not compare apples with apples and use the same bag on both bikes
(assuming it fits)? If you swapped bags on the two bikes and you'd
have a four lb difference which is more likely to have some impact
over 1200k. Loose the tools and spare parts and the difference grows
even bigger. As you mentioned it is the whole package that matters
but to get the whole package down you have to look at the individual
pieces.

The number and types of tools and spare parts that a person brings
really comes down to risk management and how much risk are you willing
to take. I've done more than my share of 1200k's and rando series and
over the years have pared down the tools I carry to almost nothing. I
can count the number of mechanical issues I've had on one hand over
the last 15years and 150,000+ miles. The problems I have had were
with parts one would not normally carry tools for, like a loose BB.

The key for me over the years is preventative maintainance! I
mitigate my risk by insuring that my equipment is in the best possible
working order prior to an event. I haven't carried a spoke wrench
since 1997 and it hasn't caused me one an ounce of grief. So, I'd bet
that the tools and spare parts I carry for my carbon bike weigh less
than the ones you carry for your steel bike. ;-)

Charles Coldwell

unread,
May 28, 2008, 1:57:52 PM5/28/08
to Homey, randon
On Wed, 28 May 2008, Homey wrote:

> As you mentioned it is the whole package that matters but to get the
> whole package down you have to look at the individual pieces.

Indeed. Of course, "the whole package" includes the person sitting on the
bicycle. In fact, that is the heaviest single component in the package by
a large margin. Personally, I'm not going to leave my spoke wrench behind
and risk a mechanical DNF to save a few ounces while I could still stand
to lose 15 pounds myself. It's sort of like insulating your walls but
leaving the windows open.

Homey

unread,
May 28, 2008, 6:09:12 PM5/28/08
to randon
Many of us, me included, can indeed stand to loose a few personal
pounds and that is also part of the whole package. For a lot of
people it's easier to loose lbs off the bike. :-) Regarding the
spoke wrench, I carried that thing around for years and never used
it. Finally, while packing for a ride I was evaluating what I was
packing a decided against carrying it and I haven't carried it since
and I haven't needed it either. Guess I could have carried it around
all these years but what would have been the point?

It comes back to the point I made earlier, it's all about risk and how
much or how little you are willing to accept. I have a lot of
confidence in my equipment so I'm more willing to take that risk.

wee-will...@embarqmail.com

unread,
May 28, 2008, 9:32:45 PM5/28/08
to Charles Coldwell, randon, Dark Horse
Chip -

My Bob Jackson weighs in at 53 lbs. "soaking wet" The difference must be that mine is a 25 1/2 in frame - and the bottom bracket tool (and spokes and wrench) that I carry - and YES I know where EVERY one of the 53 pounds come from - right down to the 800 gram Brooks Sprung saddle.

"Weight Weenie Willie"

--- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Coldwell" <cold...@gmail.com>
To: "Dark Horse" <flyin...@gmail.com>
Cc: "randon" <ran...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 4:19:41 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: [Randon] Re: Purely for my curiosity..

Paul Ries

unread,
May 28, 2008, 10:40:58 PM5/28/08
to Homey, randon
You are kidding, right? A spoke wrench?

I suggest that if you think carrying a spoke wrench or
not makes any difference in your ride experience to
you, ask a friend or family member to flip a coin and
stick the wrench in you pocket or bag (or not) and see
if you can really tell the difference.

I'm glad you've gotten through so many rides without a
wheel problem, but there's always a first time.

-Paul

Homey

unread,
May 28, 2008, 11:03:13 PM5/28/08
to randon
Yeah, I'm serious. I haven't carried one in over 10 years now. Why
should I start carrying one now? If you have a problem breaking
wheels I suggest you get a better wheel builder and then maintain them
properly. BTW, I'm not a light guy at 225lbs. As I mentioned earlier
it isn't the "item", it's the whole package and you have to weigh the
risk of not carrying an item against the benefits of carrying that
item. For me, the risk of not having a spoke wrench is pretty low so
I don't carry one.



On May 28, 7:40 pm, Paul Ries <pries95...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> You are kidding, right? A spoke wrench?
>
> I suggest that if you think carrying a spoke wrench or
> not makes any difference in your ride experience to
> you, ask a friend or family member to flip a coin and
> stick the wrench in you pocket or bag (or not) and see
> if you can really tell the difference.
>
> I'm glad you've gotten through so many rides without a
> wheel problem, but there's always a first time.
>
> -Paul
>

Erik Rowberg

unread,
May 29, 2008, 12:50:18 AM5/29/08
to Ciclismo, randon
How do you get the spokes to stay in the seatpost?


On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Ciclismo <suffo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
c.      Spokes in seat post

--
bike2work2live2bike...
Erik Rowberg
Message has been deleted

Homey

unread,
May 29, 2008, 2:48:37 AM5/29/08
to randon
I was just wondering where you were coming from Jan. I don't think
think our logic on this is too far off from each other. I don't mind
carrying something that is heavier for comfort reasons, such as your
brooks saddle. That makes perfect sense to me.

I think there is some mis-understanding here in that I don't leave the
spoke wrench at home just to save a few grams, I leave it at home
because I've never had use for it. btw, I did have two spokes brake
once on my way into Brest in 03. I just loosened up the rear brake
and rode into town and had the rear wheel rebuilt. Not a big deal and
I didn't need a spoke wrench to make it ridable. It did cost me 6-7
hrs of time in brest waiting but they were drive side spokes and I
couldn't have fixed them myself anyway without removing the cassette.
The guy who originally built the wheel was more than a little
embarrassed though.

Regarding your not "feeling the weight" that you were carrying I would
suggest that might be because you are a much stronger rider than the
vast majority of randoneurs. A few lbs extra on your bike isn't going
to affect you like it would a much weaker rider. Just for fun
sometime, if you haven't done it before, you should ride with the
lantern rouges on a 1200k. I think you might find it illuminating. I
had the opportunity at PBP in 03 and it's quite a different experience
from riding off the front.




On May 28, 11:16 pm, Jan Heine <hein...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >The reason I asked Jan was this statement you made:
>
> ><i>However, calculating the rider's weight at the start of PBP,
> >it came to at least as much as my Singer, because they carried a
> >heavier bag, and more tools and spare parts. </i>
>
> >Why not compare apples with apples and use the same bag on both bikes
> >(assuming it fits)? If you swapped bags on the two bikes and you'd
> >have a four lb difference which is more likely to have some impact
> >over 1200k. Loose the tools and spare parts and the difference grows
> >even bigger. As you mentioned it is the whole package that matters
> >but to get the whole package down you have to look at the individual
> >pieces.
>
> That is what we did, we compared every part so readers can make up
> their minds. We even looked at simple ways to make the superlight
> bike much lighter yet, both empty and ready for PBP.
>
> I was just pointing out that you may save 2 lbs. on a superlight
> bike, but this is easy to lose with bags and other equipment. Many
> randonneurs proudly tell me how little their bike weighs, but in many
> cases, the weight is without lights, luggage, etc.
>
> For PBP 2007, I chose several heavy components: A steel-rail Brooks
> saddle that was super-comfortable over a ti-rail one that wasn't
> perfectly broken in. Arm warmers AND a long-sleeve jersey. In the
> event, I wore only the long-sleeve jersey, but in case the weather
> had been more variable, I would have appreciated the arm warmers. I
> thought about using aluminum brake cable housing, but decided it was
> not worth the effort.
>
> In the end, my bike weighed a lot more than the carbon racing bikes
> with minimal luggage in the lead group. I never felt the weight, in
> fact, when I lost time at the first control trying to procure water,
> I caught the lead group on a long uphill.
>
> When you do the physics, you see that a few grams won't make a huge
> difference over the entire ride, but 3 lbs. will make a difference on
> a long climb, if you are trying to stay with a group. If you lose 10
> seconds by the top, you are off the back... If you have to work
> harder on every hill than the others in a group, you won't last long.
>
> However, weight must be seen in the context of overall bike
> performance, especially aerodynamics and rolling resistance, but also
> the risk of DNF due to equipment failure. And if a spoke wrench costs
> you 5 seconds over the run of PBP, but you'll have a 5% change of DNF
> because you brake two spokes, then I consider it worth the cost.
Message has been deleted

cris.co...@gmail.com

unread,
May 29, 2008, 10:08:25 AM5/29/08
to randon
On May 28, 11:03 pm, Homey <bargefam...@tcsn.net> wrote:
> Yeah, I'm serious.  I haven't carried one in over 10 years now.  Why
> should I start carrying one now?  

The wheels on my bikes have been generally reliable and solid, but on
my first ever brevet, I had a collision with another rider that bent
two of my spokes about 30 miles into the ride. With a spoke wrench
and a fiber-fix, I was able to replace one of the bent spokes, get the
wheel back into ridable shape, complete the course and have a fun
time. Without the ability to replace the spoke, I would've likely
abandoned the ride, and possibly been discouraged from randonneuring.

Certainly, you can do a lot with preventative maintenance, but there
are some events that are beyond one's control, where dumb luck can
trump prevention. Carrying bulky, heavy tools for rare, unlucky cases
might be inadvisable, but a spoke wrench and fiber fix are small and
light enough that from my experience, it falls into the category of
tools where it's better to 'have them and not need them, rather than
need them and not have them."

-- cris

RUSA2691

unread,
May 29, 2008, 10:51:47 AM5/29/08
to randon
I have the perfect solution: Drill a small hole though your spoke
wrench and wear it around your neck. You can appease the "don't carry
it if you probably don't need it" crowd by saying it's just a good
luck charm, and assure the folks who think you're taking an
unnecessary risk (apparently 5%) not carrying a spoke wrench when you
point to it hanging near and dear to your heart.
And the coup de grâce? String it on a FiberFix!

:)

-Paul

Ingle, Bruce

unread,
May 29, 2008, 11:03:49 AM5/29/08
to randon digest subscribers
> When you do the physics, you see that a few grams won't
> make a huge difference over the entire ride, but 3 lbs.
> will make a difference on a long climb, if you are trying
> to stay with a group.

I've typically put on about 3 pounds the day before any of the long
rides I've done this year. I'm sure it weighs me down on the hills, but
probably not as much as an empty tank would. :)

- Bruce

Ingle, Bruce

unread,
May 29, 2008, 11:04:09 AM5/29/08
to randon digest subscribers
> Bruce, how many gears did the BMB 2002 bike have? And were any of them
fixed?

9 speed derailleur gearing, 42x11-34 with 170mm cranks and 700x23 tires.

Current derailleur gearing is 9sp 53x11-34 with 170mm cranks and a
700x30 rear tire.

I determined on Saturday I'd be just as happy with 53x12-18-34 and it
would have a better chainline, so I'm in the process of revising the
drivetrain. I hope to have this finished for pre-riding the 400 on June
5.

> Indeed, you well might also ask, "How many chains?"

One chain. The bichain is best left for slower rides where efficiency
isn't as relevant.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bichain-fixed-free.html

- Bruce

Harry Spatz

unread,
May 29, 2008, 11:05:34 AM5/29/08
to randon
OTOH I was very happy to have a spoke wrench when a piece of the flange on
my tandem hub broke off leaving two spokes flopping around. The spoke
wrench enabled me to get the wheel true enough to ride with the brake open.
Luckily I still had a drum brake to use. Without a spoke wrench I wasn't
going anywhere. Items like a spoke wrench are insurance. I keep making
payments on my disability insurance even though I have never collected a
penny on it. I also carry a spoke wrench and a fiber replacement spoke.

Harry Spatz

-----Original Message-----
From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of
Homey
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:09 PM
To: randon
Subject: [Randon] Re: Purely for my curiosity..

Charles Coldwell

unread,
May 29, 2008, 11:18:18 AM5/29/08
to Homey, randon
On Wed, 28 May 2008, Homey wrote:
>
> BTW, I'm not a light guy at 225lbs. As I mentioned earlier it isn't
> the "item", it's the whole package and you have to weigh the risk of
> not carrying an item against the benefits of carrying that item.
> For me, the risk of not having a spoke wrench is pretty low so I
> don't carry one.

Well, let's suppose that the whole package consists of you and a 25lb
(11kg) bicycle. That's 250lbs (114kg) total. According to

http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=16&item=SW%2D0

the standard spoke wrench weighs 0.06lbs (27g), so thats 0.024% of the
total weight. The risk would have to be awfully low to justify a
benefit that small.

Emily O'Brien

unread,
May 29, 2008, 11:39:08 AM5/29/08
to Charles Coldwell, Homey, randon
The first place I'd save weight on my rando setup would be my saddlebag mount. I could clamp bag loops onto my saddle rails that would weigh about a gram instead of the Carradice SQR mount I use, but I keep the SQR because it's so handy (for all the other times I use that bike, not just for brevets). Yes, it's a weight penalty, but it's a price I'm willing to pay for my own laziness.

For what it's worth, I carry the Alien multi-tool plus an additional, longer 6mm allen wrench for my Phil hub bolts (until I get around to picking up the qr conversion kit for my hub). Yes, it's pretty heavy as such things go, and I could save some of that weight by paring it down to just the tools that go to stuff that's actually on my bike. For example, I don't need the Torx wrench, only need one size of open end wrench, don't need the smaller allen wrenches, don't need the chain tool (I don't think I'm ever going to break a 1/8" BMX chain on a ride, and I won't ever need to break my chain to do the ol' busted-derailleur-work-around), only need the size of spoke wrench that actually fits my spokes, only need one tire lever if any, and so on. The weight difference between what I actually need to carry and that alien is not insubstantial. But the alien is still small and not THAT heavy, and if it means that I can help someone I'm with get back on the road when something happens, it's worth it as far as I'm concerned. I've probably used it on the road on other people's bikes more times as I've used it on my own, and that's worth the small weight penalty of carrying it.

If I were trying to go as fast as possible, I could definitely pare down what I carry. But since I'm not, I'd rather have that one more dry piece of clothing in reserve, or that ziploc bag full of pickles, or the capability to fix someone else's bike than worry about how much it weighs. But to each his own.

> -------Original Message-------
> From: Charles Coldwell <cold...@gmail.com>
> Subject: [Randon] Re: Purely for my curiosity..

rle...@hotmail.com

unread,
May 29, 2008, 1:14:31 PM5/29/08
to randon
Dear Eamon:
My "rig" weighs about 40 lbs, but that's because it's a touring
bike. Frame's beefy (Trek 520), I ride on Mavic A719 rims (36 spokes),
I don't even bother taking off the front lowrider rack for Populaires
and I carry lots and lots of stuff. Amazingly, for San Diego, I even
keep fenders on the bike at all times. Even with such oddities as a
spare one liter "platypus" bladder for extra water carrying (and
electrolyte drink mixing) I could probably get the load down to about
35 pounds with a different set of wheels, dropping down to 28 mm wide
tires (from 32 mm) and re-assessing tools (minipump instead of frame
pump, etc) and accessories (taking padding out of the rack trunk or
going with a much smaller rack trunk, and maybe LEAVING THE LOCK AT
HOME).

Robert Leone

Leslie Tierstein

unread,
May 29, 2008, 4:11:42 PM5/29/08
to Emily O'Brien, Charles Coldwell, Homey, randon
I love these discussions on what equipment to bring with you. It reminds me of an article I found in the Seattle Bike Atlas in, probably around, 1980. So, the references to particular tools and components are dated, but the spirit of the piece still holds. In fact, I liked the piece so much that I typed it and posted it on the web, here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~lmtierstein/stories/tools.htm

Which "type" are you?

Leslie

pamela blalock

unread,
May 29, 2008, 4:31:01 PM5/29/08
to randon
I'm in the "better lookin' AT it than FOR it" camp.

In 1987, I was riding along with a friend, Bob, about 50km from Paris, a
positively heartbreaking place to end one's PBP, most would agree.

We came upon a sad sight. There was an obviously sleep deprived and
disoriented Frenchman standing next to his bike. And there was a bicycle
chain on the ground. He was looking back and forth between his bike chain
and his chainless bicycle, as if somehow by willing it, the chain would
magically jump back onto the bike, and he could finish PBP successfully.

Along came two Americans, (Bob and me), who quickly determine that more than
willpower will be required to get this fellow home. I'm not sure he had time
to walk to the finish, nor the wits to try.

Anyway, we stopped. Bob is fluent in French, and he explained that we have a
chain tool (well two actually, since we each had one). We got his chain back
on his bike, and got everything working. I pulled out a film canister with
some hand cleaner, and we cleaned the grease off our hands and headed onto
the finish. The fellow with the formerly broken chain was very appreciative,
but did comment that Americans carry everything in their enormous bags -
almost in a derogatory sort of way, according to Bob (the one fluent in
French). So my chain tool contributed to the global good by not adding one
more DNF to the pile.

pamela blalock pgb at blayleys.com
care-free in watertown, ma http://www.blayleys.com


Mike Sturgill

unread,
May 29, 2008, 4:39:08 PM5/29/08
to randon
This is indeed fun! Your "type" story reminds me of a ride a long time ago
in Phoenix. There were a half dozen or so out on a ride and it was getting
pretty hot. The only place around to get out of the heat and refuel was a
bar. So, clad in spandex, everyone stopped. While walking in, we passed a
couple guys working on their bike. We overheard one of them ask the other if
he happened to have a crescent wrench. He replied that he did not. However,
we were riding with Margret. She was renowned for being a "Herman." Without
batting an eye, she walked over to her saddle bag and pulled out a 12"
crescent wrench. She proudly gave it to the two guys, and they were very
happy to be able to get their Harley fixed.

Gino Zahnd

unread,
May 29, 2008, 5:02:40 PM5/29/08
to erow...@habari.co.tz, Ciclismo, randon
Yes, how does one secure spare spokes into the seatpost?

Jake Kassen

unread,
May 29, 2008, 5:10:04 PM5/29/08
to randon
Gino Zahnd wrote:
> Yes, how does one secure spare spokes into the seatpost?

You could either tape em' to the outside (if you have a long post and
small wheels) or you could take the seatpost out and stick some spare
spokes in the bottom of the tube.

Lots of people over the years have used this empty space. I believe that
some Moultons fit a pump into the this tube. People have used this space
to put ownership documents, electronics, etc.

Not a bad storage place for infrequently used things.

Jake

Charles Coldwell

unread,
May 29, 2008, 5:11:48 PM5/29/08
to gi...@zahndindustries.com, erow...@habari.co.tz, Ciclismo, randon
On Thu, 29 May 2008, Gino Zahnd wrote:

>
> Yes, how does one secure spare spokes into the seatpost?

Wrap them with an old inner tube, take out the seat and post, then
drop them down the seat *tube* in the frame.

Might want to mark your seat post so you can return it to the same
position.

Lynne Fitz

unread,
May 29, 2008, 8:02:18 PM5/29/08
to randon
On the previous bike, I duct-taped spokes to the rear rack, in 1992.
Silver duct tape, silver rack, silver-colored spokes. Never needed
them. Completely forgot they were there! I rediscovered them in
2007, while moving the rack from the dead bike to the new bike. I
recycled them, since they were meant for 27" wheels, of which there
are now none in our garage.

I carry a FiberFix spoke now.

Lynne F

Lynne Fitz

unread,
May 29, 2008, 8:13:47 PM5/29/08
to randon
Lesley, I love that list! But a couple items are missing - the
ubiquitous zip-tie and duct tape. Many things can be fixed with zip-
ties. I also did not see duct tape. Used to be, I'd keep piece
wrapped around a tire lever, to use as a boot. And I did, once - see
aforementioned bike that was replaced in 2007. Replaced the tires in
2003, because they were so old, and found a piece of duct tape that
had been there since...

Hmmm. May be that the list predates zip-ties and duct tape.

I did not have a zip-tie on a populaire, and my Topeak Modula EX water
bottle cage developed attachment to the bicycle problems. Susan
France was hanging at the Cherry Grove control, and she had some in
her vehicle. Whew! Saved my ride!

Lynne "tending toward Herman" F
> >>  GPG FPR: 77E5 2B51 4907 F08A 7E92  DE80 AFA9 9A8F 852E 052F- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Lynne Fitz

unread,
May 29, 2008, 8:23:14 PM5/29/08
to randon
Re: Pam's chain tool story... I have (not yet) broken a chain.
However, my chain tool (part of my weighty Trek multitool) has been
employed more than once to fix OTHER people's chains. My spare tube
went to a co-worker on a week-long tour after he had his 4th flat in a
day (replaced that night in camp). Encountered a rider carrying
NOTHING, walking home (it was a ways) in road shoes with cleats.
Fixed his flat ("do you two work for a bike store?" No.)

I'd just purely hate to at some point have a mechanical problem I
could have fixed if only I had the right stuff along. That said, I do
not YET carry a spare brake or derailleur cable, and should toss in a
few chain links and a spare Frog cleat.

Something to be said for regular maintenance - I've had darn few
mechanical issues; just the occasional thing working loose, which is
easily fixed if caught early enough. I'm sure my day will come.

(Self-extracting crank bolts do not need a specialized crank
puller :-) )

Lynne "Be Prepared" F

Ingle, Bruce

unread,
May 30, 2008, 11:10:44 AM5/30/08
to randon digest subscribers

I typically carry tools and parts to solve the following problems these
days:

punctured tube
sliced tire
broken spoke
broken chain

The Blackburn Mtn multitool I use also has small 3,4,5,6 mm Allen keys
that can be used in a pinch, I have some tiny lights that will get me by
if the big ones fail in the dark, and I usually carry zipties and duck
tape as well.

The broken chain has had the lowest frequency -- two that I can recall
in over 100,000 miles. One was improperly riveted, the other was a
broken side plate of a 1/8" master link on a hub-geared bike (which was
major surgery to repair because I only had a 3/32" link available).

The bigger stuff isn't worth it, IMO. I've had far more stripped
freewheel threads and failed freehub bodies than broken chains, but
those are a lot tougher to fix on the road. The zipties are often
enough to limp along.

- Bruce

Charles Lathe

unread,
May 30, 2008, 7:37:10 PM5/30/08
to randon
Carrying weight on the body is a good fix. Time Krabbé wrote this:

"Jaques Anquetil, five-time winner of the Tour de France, used to
take his water bottle out of its holder before every climb and stick
it in the back pocket of his jersey. Ab Geldermans, his Dutch
Lieutenant, watched him do that for years, until finally he couldn't
stand it any more and asked him why. And Anquetil explained.

A rider, said Anquetil, is made up of two parts, a person and a bike.
The bike, of course, is the instrument the person uses to go faster,
but its weight also slows him down. That really counts when the going
gets tough, and in climbing the thing is to make sure the bike is as
light as possible. A good way to do that is: take the bidon out of
its holder.

So at the start of every climb, Anquetil moved his water bottle from
its holder to to his back pocket. Clear enough."


On May 28, 11:21 am, "Ingle, Bruce" <Bruce.In...@gdc4s.com> wrote:
> 15.8 lb before BMB 2002 without any ancillary equipment, probably
> another pound for lights.  I generally carry luggage on my body instead
> of the bike; I was under 200 lb with the bike and everything else I'd
> need for the ride.
>
> Current rig is probably ~20-21 lb but should be much more comfortable --
> big tires, 531 frame with long stays, leather saddle, fenders, etc.
>
> - Bruce
Message has been deleted

Grant White

unread,
May 31, 2008, 10:00:01 AM5/31/08
to Jan Heine, ran...@googlegroups.com
Is that a bidon in you pocket or are you glad to see me?
 
Seriously though, I've been contemplating this thread from the antipodes and I weighed myself and my bike and my 200km kit the other day and came out at a total package of 94kg. That''ll be heavier than some and lighter than others. Doesn't really matter where the bidon is.
 
cheers
 
grant

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 12:08 AM, Jan Heine <hei...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>Carrying weight on the body is a good fix.  Time Krabbé wrote this:
>
>  "Jaques Anquetil, five-time winner of the Tour de France, used to
>take his water bottle out of its holder before every climb and stick
>it in the back pocket of his jersey.  Ab Geldermans, his Dutch
>Lieutenant, watched him do that for years, until finally he couldn't
>stand it any more and asked him why.  And Anquetil explained.
>
>A rider, said Anquetil, is made up of two parts, a person and a bike.
>The bike, of course, is the instrument the person uses to go faster,
>but its weight also slows him down.  That really counts when the going
>gets tough, and in climbing the thing is to make sure the bike is as
>light as possible.  A good way to do that is: take the bidon out of
>its holder.
>
>So at the start of every climb, Anquetil moved his water bottle from
>its holder to to his back pocket.  Clear enough."
>

Racers often have strange ideas about what
matters in equipment, but Anquetil does not
appear to have been as stupid as the urban myth
proposes.

A quick review of historic photos - for example,
in Brett Horton's "Cycling's Golden Age" and in
Ollivier's "Jacques Anquetil, La Veridique
Histoire" - shows many photos of Anquetil
climbing all-out with a bottle stuck in his
bottle cage. One photo shows him from behind on a
climb. His jersey pockets are bulging with small
items, but there is no water bottle in there. In
some photos at or near the finish, his bottle
cage is empty, but I suspect he just threw his
bottle away on the last climb.

Of course, this does not prove that Anquetil
_never_ did this, but the original story alleged
that he did this on _every_ climb, which is easy
enough to disprove.

Nice story, though.

Charles Lathe

unread,
May 31, 2008, 2:16:02 PM5/31/08
to randon
Krabbé is a novelist and my excerpt came from his story about a
fictional bicycle race in which he plays the protagonist. The entire
story is true; it's just not factual. Later in the story he writes:

"When Geldermans told me that Anquetil always moved his water bottle
to his back pocket during climbs, so his bike would be lighter, I
began paying attention. I noticed that in all the old pictures of
Anquetil climbing, his bidon is always in its holder. That's
straining at gnats. Geldermans' story strikes to the soul of the
rider, and is therefore true.

"Those pictures are inaccurate."

I am much faster on my light Yellow Roadie than I am on The Red
Randonneuse. The fact that my watch does not bear this out does not
bother me.

Chuck Lathe
Franklinville, NC
cohobicycles.com

DrCodfish

unread,
May 31, 2008, 7:20:32 PM5/31/08
to randon
"...I agree with your reasoning on bringing tools. We all decide what
you will bring, and which risks to take that may leave us stranded. "


Tools and their utility:

I like this topic. Probably the most beneficial tool/part I have ever
had along in terms of ROI is the fiber fix spoke. This little device
has come in handy for me (and others I have been riding with) on more
than one occasion.

On a rainy spring 600K jaunt out around the Olympic Peninsula
(qualifier for PBP '03) a friend and I came upon a newish rando
standing by the side of the road. His low spoke count rear wheel in
one hand, and his Colnago frame in the other. Broken spoke on the
rear, drive side. Brian and I flipped a coin and as a result Brian
'loaned' his fiber fix to the lucky rider, who ultimately finished the
event (though he got a wheel rebuild two controles on).

Another time, I was riding the Gold Rush Randonnee and broke a spoke
out bound. Same deal; rear wheel, drive side. With the help of a
friend Iput on the fiber fix, thinking I'd surely get a spoke
replacement at one of the controles along the way. That Fiberfix
ultimately saw me all the way to the end of the ordeal, about 800K!
Granted I had to stop intermittently to tighten it up but, I finished
the ride thanks to the thing. I used another on a shorter local ride.

Really, given their low cost, small size, and ease of use I can't see
riding without one of these, if not for yourself, for someone else.

Next to that is zip ties. Amazing how these clever little devices can
be crafted to fix something that has broken. I broke a fender on the
C-1200. Zip tied it on for the rest of the second and all of the last
day.
Lost a bolt out of my Thompson 2 bolt saddle clamp. That was nearly a
ride ender, but zip tied the saddle in place ...pretty much and
finished the ride (made for one serious saddle sore though). Once zip
tied my Carradice bag onto my saddle (I think I have forgotten every
possible piece of equipment on a ride!) These things make duct tape
seem positively old school.

Yr Pal Dr Codfish

Homey

unread,
May 31, 2008, 8:04:13 PM5/31/08
to randon
<i> His low spoke count rear wheel in
one hand, and his Colnago frame in the other. Broken spoke on the
rear, drive side. </i>


Just for clarification, that rider wasn't me! :-)

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
Message has been deleted
0 new messages