Schmidt SON20R feedback wanted

[Rob Hawks]

After finding LED headlights that offered such an increase in lighting
over even dual halogens, I'm switching
over to LEDs. What made me hesitate was the color and quality of LED
lights. With my older eyes, I
really liked the Halogen lighting better and couldn't really see as
well by LED lights. My eDeluxe makes
that old issue moot.

So, I'm also looking at building a new wheel with a new hub, and I'm
considering using the SON20R. One
concern is that there is this issue of the strength of the wheel given
that the hub flanges are
closer together. Mostly, what I have read is that well, the wheel is
not as strong but it is not as much
a compromise as the rear wheel if you use a 8, 9, or 10 cog hub and
that for most applications it is not an
issue.

I've read the Randon google groups thread from I think last May, but I
still have some questions.

Here then are the questions I wanted to ask. If you are using the
SON20R with a 700c rim and an LED headlight, do you ever find
yourself in low speed situations where you don't get enough lighting?
(on the 600 last spring I was climbing up toward Mountain House
on 128 on the return and I had great lighting with my SON 28 and the eDeluxe.)

Also, if you have the SON20R on a 700c rim and you use a front bag,
are there any wheel flex issues? Did you decide against
the SON20R because you use a front bag?

If this matters, I weigh 175lbs. I'm not light by any stretch, but
I'm not that heavy.

Thanks for any input.

rob hawks

[Scott Brittle]

Hi Rob,
I have a SON20R on a Velocity synergy 700c rim with an eDeluxe. The
light comes on while walking the bike. You will not have a problem
with light. I have a front bag and rack, no problem with the wheel.
It has all worked great for me. I am a little heavier and somewhat
slower than you.

Scott Brittle

[Charlie Jenkins]

Hi Rob,

 

We are using the SON20R laced to a 700c Velocity DeepV, and an Edelux on our tandem. The wheel has worked great for us, with no flex or strength issues. We don't use a front bag, but our combined weight is almost double yours.

Charlie

"Life is Short...Ride Long!"

[Ian Hennessey]

Rob Hawks wrote:

> ...I'm

> considering using the SON20R. One
> concern is that there is this issue of the strength of the wheel given
> that the hub flanges are

> closer together...

I have two SON wheels, both laced 28 spoke 2-cross* and both have been
trouble-free since I built them several years and several thousand miles
ago.

*I know Schmidt recommends no less than 3-cross, but I have reasons.

Funnily enough I met Herr Schmidt in London a few weeks ago and forgot
to ask him about spoking. His latest hubs are smaller and lighter with a
barrel-shaped centre - very nice.

Ian H

[Oldairhead]

I have a SON20R hub with an Edelux light and am very happy with the
system. The hub is built up with Mavic Open Pro 32 spoke rims (3 cross)
and I use use this on a Pegoretti road bike which is mainly my double
century bike. It does not have a front bag but does have aero bars, so
I suppose when I am down in the aero bars that I am much like a front
bag. I have found it to be stable and strong. I am happy with the
performance of the hub and it provides better light at lower speed
than my old Schmidt hub with a halogen light. I leave the hub and
light on the bike for every ride now, not just the long rides as it is
not noticeable when you are riding the bike otherwise. I think that
you will be happy with this system.

Lonnie Wolff
Regional Brevet Administrator
Southern Utah Region
www.subrevet.org

[thirty-six]

Care to share why you laced 2 cross rather than 3 cross?

[Gabe Ehlert]

I got my Edelux in time for last years 300k and I had the 20r a few months before that.  My experiences have been the same as Scott, Kitty and Todd's.  I usually carry about 5-10 pounds of stuff in my Hbar bag.  No problems at all.  I too was concerned about the lateral strength of the wheel.  After many rides climbing and descending on fireroads and singletrack as well as the 2009 series and training rides, I have not had issues with the wheel flexing noticeably, or even needing to be re-trued.  It is a 32hole hub, laced to a velocity aerohead rim using 14/15 Sapim spokes. 
Gabe

[Ian Hennessey]

thirty-six wrote:
> Care to share why you laced 2 cross rather than 3 cross?
>

The way I learned wheel-building involves using fewer crossings for
larger flange diameters in order to keep the effective angle of the
spoke about the same. Too acute an angle at the rim can also give
breakage problems. With a front wheel there's no need to overdo the
tensions, so I reckon two-cross won't put excessive force on the
flanges. But I suspect I *could* wind the tensions tight enough to crack
them, hence Schmidt's caution.

Regards,

Ian H
www.ukcyclist.co.uk

[jake Kassen]

Rob Hawks wrote:

>
> Also, if you have the SON20R on a 700c rim and you use a front bag,
> are there any wheel flex issues? Did you decide against
> the SON20R because you use a front bag?

No front bag but I do have a lot of stuff on the front of the bike. I
use my SOR with a homemade light. I'm about 150lb and bike+gear adds
another 50lb.

I've had absolutely no problems with the hub over the past several
thousand miles. I've taken it on a lot of rocky dirt roads in that time
too, often with 25mm tires. It's laced 3 cross to a Velocity Aerohead
rim. Since the drag is so very low with the light turned on I don't
often turn it off.

For what it's worth, my Shimano dynamo has seen even more miles in worst
conditions and it too has been without problem.

Jake

[thirty-six]

With aluminium hub flanges I use the maximum crossings, then even if
there is a tear out (which happens when a cast hub has a void, of
which I have had personal experience) the tear is limited to the one
spoke support. With spun hubs you will not have this problem and a
more radial exit will likely be just fine.

What seems to be more important is the angle of departure of the
spoke lying against the inner side of the flange, to the face of the
flange, and using a cross two layup with normal interlace on a 28
spoke will reduce this angle, making for greater reliability in the
spokes than with a typical three cross. Doing a double tied and
soldered cross three on a 28 will give a more stable and reliable
wheel again without increasing the risk to the hub flange.

If you have problems with angles at the nipple holes, try different
nipples or modify the nipple seating. Simply adding a washer or two
may allow the nipple to angle correctly. Opening the hole slightly
with a taper can also work. There are also rims available with
dimpled nipple beds for more acute angles.

[WillemJ]

The choice for a SON20R involves two separate decisions. First, does
it significantly reduce light output compared to a SON28? The honest
answer is no it does not. I have a SON28 and my wife a SON20, and the
differences are marginal, and only just perceptable I think at very
low speed. At rando speeds, they are immaterial. The reduction in
resistance with the light on can be noticed, however. Second, the
wheel strength issue is a different matter, of course. For my wife's
loaded touring bike I chose the stronger ordinary SON20 rather than
the narrower SON20R. For a lightly loaded rando bike I would not
hesitate to get the SON20R, I think.
Willem

[Rob Hawks]

Thanks Willem and thanks to everyone else that responded. It's pretty clear that
for my equipment (and engine weight) everyone agrees this is no issue.
I'm seconds
away from ordering this from my local dealer.

rob hawks