How to act at PBP

[jake Kassen]

Here is an artical about how best to behave when traveling to PBP:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/fashion/11polite.html

Frankly, the more I hear about this ride, the more scared I become, and
it has nothing to do with riding 1200 kilometers.

We watched the Triplets of Belleville again last night -- quite a scary
film for a cyclist going to France. I'm not that fast and don't want to
get shot or have to eat frogs!

Jake

[littlecircles :: mikeb]

Quote:
"Always arrive at a dinner party 15 minutes late."

Wonder if that means for controls too....

-mb

[Paul Ries]

Not to worry, Jake. Some of us had similar fears
wearing any sort of American flag over there four
years ago (US just having invaded Iraq against the
advise from France). That fear was unfounded.

Anyway, there have been some suggestions in early
posts about politeness in France, and I'm sure they
would be well heeded, but at the same time, most of
the folks along the PBP course are a lot more
down-to-earth that France's version of the "Cultural
Elite" portrayed in this article. And to top it off,
half of your fellow riders will not be French, but
will be from all over the globe with all sorts of
different attitudes toward politeness ;-) Anyay,
don't let something like this disuade you!

Of course it could very well be that your posting was
meant to be entirely humorous...

I thought the article was quite humorous myself!

-Paul

[Peter Leiss]

PBP is an experience that you must have in your life. Most of this
stuff is common sense. I had no difficulty at any control. The French
at PBP are the most accommodating friendly people I have ever met. In
fact except for Paris I have always had exceptionally pleasant
experiences in France. On the ride they don't care what fork you use
or even wether you use a fork at all. On my way out of Brest climbing
the big hill a transport truck patiently waited behind me as I
climbed up. I actually had to wave him through... this is just an
example of the courtesy that is extended.

I will never forget leaving the start in the last wave and seeing a
trail of tailights for kilometers as I crested each of the initial
rollers.

Bon chance, bon courage

Peter Leiss

[Bill Bryant]

Paul's got it right, Jake. Not a worry.

In fact, most American randonneurs come home after PBP a little depressed...
The Big Ride is over, and now they have to go back to their ordinary lives
where people don't stand on the roadside and cheer them onward or offer them
water and snacks as they ride their bikes (no matter the riders'
nationality.) Worse, we now have to resume dealing with abusive American
drivers who threaten cyclists in a way French drivers never would. Sigh...
:-(

FWIW, I never heard of any problems with our RUSA guys and gals getting
harassed about wearing a US jersey in 2003 despite similar concerns, or
earlier for that matter. And I was trying to find them. Maybe it happened,
but I didn't hear of it-- quite the opposite in fact. The national
identification on jerseys often brings exclamations of happy surprise that
you'd come all that way to do their ride.

Sure, maybe they don't like our political leaders or foreign policy, but
that doesn't make them dislike an ordinary citizen like you or me. And if
some American is a noisy jackass in France, then they shouldn't expect to be
treated nicely-- same as if the reverse happened here, right?

Just like others noted in earlier Randon messages, I've found common
politeness goes a LONG way in France. I've also found the stereotypes of
their boorish behavior to be over-blown, if not outright lies. It all makes
for juicy stories for TV and newspapers to sell the domestic readers-- but
it doesn't match the reality if you go there, and especially if you make
some attempt to speak their language.

After 9 trips to France in the past few decades equipped with no more than a
five-year-old's command of the language, I think all that anti-French stuff
you see in the US is a lot of hooey by jingoistic nitwits who simply want to
create some "boogey man" for reasons I don't fully understand. Maybe there
are some political problems between the two countries right now, but when
you meet them one-on-one it invariably works out fine. I can also tell you
about many, many examples of French checkpoint workers and ordinary
bystanders helping Americans during PBP that needed some extra help to stay
in the ride, and in other situations on other trips. This is how they show
their anti-American feelings??

So, relax. This is not a problem to worry about one bit if you practice The
Golden Rule of treating others as you'd like to be treated yourself. Works
like a charm every time. Oh yeah, maybe not in downtown Paris itself where
they can be a little brusque, but that's exactly what some others (not me,
of course!) say about New York city. ;-)

Sign me "very much looking forward to the trip next summer for a variety of
reasons, not the least of which is simply being in France with the French."

Bill Bryant

[Greg Merritt]

> common politeness goes a LONG way in France.

If you consider this carefully, there is evidence here that French
culture has permeated the entire world, for one may find that common
politeness is now well-received by most people the world 'round... :)

Seriously, what has been kind of funny to me about the "be polite to
French folks, they'll appreciate it" pointers is the inference that
randonneurs are generally not so polite, yet expect to be well-treated
-- so lessons in politeness are required. Do unto others, golden
rule, and all that -- universal stuff, eh?

-Grégoire l'Amerloque

[pamela blalock]

Jake and others worried about etiquette in France

Learn these key phrases...

See-vu-play - use this when you want something

Mare-see - use this when you get something

Bon-zure - use this when you encounter anyone

Bon-swar - OK, this gets tricky...use this when you encounter anyone after
some top-secret time around mid-afternoon
You won't need Bon-nwee for PBP :-)

Add Madam, mademoiselle, or monsieur as appropriate.

That's it.

If you walk into a shop, say hello (for example - bonjour madam). Same in a
bar or restaurant, or as the article said, even getting on a bus. Americans
just don't do this routinely and this is why the French think WE are rude.
Many of the shops are small family run affairs and when you enter the shop,
it is like entering their home - say hello. When you leave say thank you or
good bye. Titles are also important, so try to add Madam, Monsieur as
appropriate. While on the subject of shops, I'll also mention that Americans
like to browse and touch and pick things up and ruffle things (I do). But
this is not how Europeans shop. You typically don't go into a small shop in
Europe to browse - you are looking for something specific, and they want to
help you find it. So if you can't find the phrase, "just looking" in your
phrasebook, there is a reason.

Please and thank you also go a long way. Start every request with please and
finish with thank you and you will have no trouble. Americans also tend to
not use these phrases regularly at home, despite our parents best efforts.

Learn those basic things and start using them now. You can practice lots on
brevets.

And if you want a few more phrases, consider a travelers French class from
your local community school.

pamela blalock pgb at blayleys.com
car-free in watertown, ma http://www.blayleys.com

[pamela blalock]

I will add that one thing that surprised me at some places during PBP was
the lack of orderly lines. I would go into a café/bar along route and stand
trying to wait my turn, and people would just push ahead of me to order. Of
course they said please and thank you to their server. But if I was not
assertive enough to speak up, I was out of luck in these situations. Some
places had orderly lines, and no one pushed ahead of me in those, but at
bars on route, trying to get a sandwich or drinks, it was much more a
free-for-all. But still with please and thank you. There are places where
you will find orderly lines, but not always.

Oh and this only pertained to PBP - ladies rooms were often filled with men
- after all less than 400 women of 4000+ riders. I found that this was much
less a problem in 1999 than 91 and 87, but I did have one humorous incident
in a shower in Fougeres in 1999. One of the control workers directed me to
the ladies shower and I surprised a French man who was just drying off as I
entered. I was afraid I'd gone to the wrong place, so I went back to ask,
and indeed I was in the right facility. The lad was long gone when I got
back. I had a nice shower (meal and sleep) there. A few hours :-) later, I
was at the finish, and one of the motorcycle escorts came up to me to
translate for this embarrassed fellow, who offered sincere apologies for the
shower incident, explaining that he had accidentally used the wrong shower,
and was not a pig! It was all very sweet. And more amazing that he made the
effort and found and recognized me!

As a further aside, I must say that they love the gals on PBP. (Sorry Jake,
this doesn't apply to you). The gals get extra encouragement from spectators
as well as folks at controls. The motorcycle escorts near the end seem to
look after the gals more, and the gals get flowers at the finish.

Many Americans tend to ride as individuals, while many of the Europeans ride
as clubs. (This is a generalization - there are plenty of exceptions). But
in 87 and 91, I rode a single bike, and regularly got adopted by a club for
a while. I heard similar stories from other women. I also often found myself
in the company of older gentlemen, and on a few occasions got to meet the
wife at a control. In 1999, I rode tandem, and also got lots of positive
attention!

Back to Jake's article... On PBP, do ask directions to the *toilette* (if
that's what you want) - none of this discretion about washing your hands :-)
If you ask for a bathroom, they will send you to the showers. And speaking
of toilets, the best reason to use walkable - recessed cleat shoes is the
toilets in Carhaix (and many other places along the route.) There is a
stall, with a hole in the floor and two footprints in front. 3000 people
have used this toilet before you, many of whom apparently have poor aim. You
have ridden 400 miles and when you squat your legs will scream. Think about
those wobbly look cleats!

The showers at Carhaix were also a bit on the basic side. There was a large
courtyard, a few buckets and a few hoses. There may have been proper showers
there as well, but I was thoroughly entertained watching the public showers
- of wait, I probably wasn't supposed to watch!

[Richard McCaw]

I talked to Photon Light Tuesday & they will give us wholesale price for their headlights when ordered in quantities of 6 units (first she said 12 units) - wholesale promo price would be $24.15 each with lifetime warranty (Retail price is $64)

Amazing what people will do to help when you tell them about RUSA & PBP
 
http://www.photonlight.com/Photon-Freedom-Fusion-LED-Flashlights-Headlamps-p/ff-aa-led-flashlight-headlamp.htm

 

BTW - I got my unit when Daryn Dodge did this in 2003 - I hadn't used it for awhile and when I found my light last week - it was broken - someone (maybe me) maybe stepped on the bracket - tried gluing it - that didn't work - I mailed it to Photon Light Saturday & company rep call me today (Tuesday) - they are sending me a new unit at no charge (I received it today (Thursday) with new batteries) - I told her I should really pay something - she said no - they have a lifetime warranty - doesn't matter how the unit failed - great support!
 
- I am willing to group orders to help others that wants one (if I can get 6 orders)
 
this light worked get for me during pbp 2003

 

Richard McCaw
richar...@sbcglobal.net
Cell: 408-838-9863
Home: 408-448-2899

[albert meerscheidt]

How bright is the light and how do you use it? Main light, map light, backup light? How long does it run on a set of batteries?

Thanks,
Albert

--
Thanks,

Albert
albert.me...@gmail.com

[Michael Poplawski]

In this thread I've seen some comments which suggest to me that the
"Culture Shock" and similar series of books would be a good read for
anyone planning to visit France this year, even if it's only for a few
weeks.

In each country there are behavioural traits and knowing them will
help you possibly avoid frustration with the locals. I think it's just
as important to study this type of material as language material. You
will gain some insight on how the locals think and look at the world,
and also how some of their systems work.

Of course, learning basic expressions in any local language is a very
good idea, but so much can be accomplished by being patient and using
hand gestures. I found the expressions s'il vous plait, merci beaucoup
and j'ai une probleme very good to know, especially the last one--a
french speaker knows right away that you need help, and I was pretty
amazed at how helpful they could be.

Reverting to your native tongue really is not that useful unless your
conversation partner can speak it, and switching is very frustrating
to a listener and can be very upsetting. Learn as many words as
possible, and one entertaining way to learn is to use Wikipedia--look
up something you know and then look at the left column for a link to
the same topic in French.

e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris-Brest-Paris has a
click-through link to the same topic in French at
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris-Brest-Paris_Randonneur

Now to the bookstore, or the library:

Culture Shock! France
http://www.amazon.com/dp/155868929X

The French Way
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0071428070

France-Culture Smart!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1857333071

Xenophobe's Guide to the French (this one is essentially for fun)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1902825284

Dorling Kindersley Visual French Dictionary
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0756612977

I'll leave it you to find your own speaking/listening material for
learning French!

--
Michael Poplawski
BC Randonneurs Cycling Club
Victoria, BC Canada
Ancien 2003

PS My favourite story about French helpfulness was at a grocery store.
In France, produce is usually weighed and priced by the purchaser
using the honour system, and I didn't know this. The person behind me
in line at an Auchun (a huge multidepartmental store) took my produce
to the scale about 50 metres away and about 5 minutes later came back
with my fruit and vegetables priced. I could not believe it--this
exchanged happened with me simply being a Canadian schmuck not knowing
what to do in a mall. The PBP experience featured its own helpful
highlights, too.

[Adrian Hands]

and for velo-specific French words:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/eng-fren.html

[Tom Worster]

On Jan 11, 2007, at 10:57 PM, pamela blalock wrote:

> There is a
> stall, with a hole in the floor and ... Think about
> those wobbly look cleats!

jeez, pamela! fair point, but ... i just invested heavily in new sidis
and keos. i was blissfully unaware of this technological
incompatibility.
and i wouldn't fancy handling cleat covers back at the bike, neither.
now
thoughts of using bombs-away toilets will keep me undecided on my shoes
until mid august. ;-)

[pamela blalock]

For those having trouble picturing this, you can find a picture part way
down on this page...
http://www.blayleys.com/trips/1999/PBP/pix3.htm

> Tom Worster

[Bill Bryant]

I do not think this is not a worry any more-- the former PBP Carhaix control
was moved to a larger facility in 2003; it is much more modern by
comparison. I don't recall that it had the charming old-fashioned WCs we had
to deal with while wearing slippery cycling shoes and cleats in past
events-- but Pamela is totally on point here: Doing a painful deep-knee
bend/full squat with so many Kms in the legs and knees while trying not to
lose one's balance was a memorable part of the PBP experience, IMHO. ;-)

Still, you may encounter them elsewhere along the route. Mountain bike shoes
at PBP, even just because of all the walking and steps at the controls, are
well worth considering, IMHO...

No matter what style/brand/size/pedal attachment/cleat location anyone
decides to use, I would be SURE to have it all totally dialed in long before
August-- even before the longer brevets. Shoe changes close to the event can
set up tendonitis problems on long rides if there is a very minor fit
difference from the older set-up. I've seen riders get injured at PBP from
their August shoe/pedal change, even though it was off by only a millimeter
or two. Or, even with cleats in exactly the same position, the foot bed
difference between new and worn-out shoes can be problematic.
Or not-- but better safe than sorry in this vital area.

My two cents worth,
Bill Bryant

[Glrf...@aol.com]

Carry a small amount of TP!  There are many opportunities to find a secluded spot where one can take care of business.  Also carry some diaper wipes for cleansing.  You don't have to wait in line.

 

Frank Paulo

[Peter Noris]

for sudden emergencies, perhaps, but as a strategy for avoiding lines? Just the souvenir to
leave in rural France...

--- Glrf...@aol.com wrote:

see ya,
Peter

"Seeing the U.S.A. one brevet at a time"

321-794-0500 cell
352-275-5888 home
Skype me at Peter.F.Noris

____________________________________________________________________________________
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
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[Glrf...@aol.com]

Peter, it is biodegradable.  It is far better than leaving a trail of batteries, GU wrappers, etc. from St Q. to Brest.

 

Frank

[Dan Driscoll]

Pack a pair of flip flops in your drop bag(s) for cruising the control(s).

[Peter Jon White]

Glrf...@aol.com wrote:
> Peter, it is biodegradable. It is far better than leaving a trail of
> batteries, GU wrappers, etc. from St Q. to Brest.

Human excrement is certainly biodegradable. However, toilet paper, while
also technically biodegradable, takes quite a while to break down. So if
you do squat in somebody's corn field, put the used paper into a ziplock
bag and take it with you.

--

Peter Jon White

Peter White Cycles
24 Hall Rd.
Hillsborough, NH 03244

603 478 0900 Phone

603 478 0902 Phax

www.PeterWhiteCycles.com

[Glrf...@aol.com]

Backpackers in places such as the Grand Canyon are also required to carry out their TP, usually in plastic zip lock bags.  It is good advice, especially in areas where decomposition is a slow process.  Thanks for reminding me.

 

Frank

[Steve Palincsar]

Is there an instruction manual available?

[rwgr...@cox.net]

Just click on "Help" 8^}

[Peter Leiss]

I quite concur with Bill. During PBP 99 my pedal broke first it would
not release and then even worse it would not stay engaged. I rode
about 150 k to a control with one foot not firmly attached. I bought
new pedals and cleats mounted the new pedals and cleats and finished
the ride.

My point and Bills as well is don't change things before the big ride
and makes sure what you have will function for the duration.

BTW the pedals were Campy Pro fit and the spring has broken since
then one more time.

Peter

[Greg Cunningham]

Carrying cleat covers is another obvious solution.

[David Buzzee]

One of my memories of PBP 1999 was of trying to stand in my cleated road shoes in the WC in Carhaix.  As you note, my legs were shot before I entered the booth.  I hunkered down, took as long as I dared at my business, then (after the too-short rest) I tried to rise and walk away.  No good.  I tried again, several times.  Then I noticed that there were no handles within reach to let me help pull myself back up.  Whenever I rocked back and forth to try to build some momentum, I began to slip on the porcelain footpads.  However, with a choice between a bit of temporary discomfort and a short future before dying in a modified fetal position in the 200-year old potty, I, through a truly superhuman effort, finally managed to stagger upright.  I leaned against the wall, panting in the fetid air, until gradually the cries of the riders enjoying the makeshift hosepipe shower outside drowned out my breathing.  While I have enjoyed great relief in some of the finest rest rooms in the world, it was nothing compared to the relief I finally felt when I stumbled out of the porcelain WC in old Carhaix.  Yes, as you say, this is the stuff of memory.
  
db


Bill Bryant <bill_...@prodigy.net> wrote:

I do not think this is a worry any more-- the former PBP Carhaix control was moved to a larger facility in 2003; it is much more modern by comparison. I don't recall that it had the charming old-fashioned WCs we had to deal with while wearing slippery cycling shoes and cleats in past events-- but Pamela is totally on point here: Doing a painful deep-knee bend/full squat with so many Kms in the legs and knees while trying not to lose one's balance was a memorable part of the PBP experience, IMHO. ;-)

Still, you may encounter them elsewhere along the route. Mountain bike shoes at PBP, even just because of all the walking and steps at the controls, are well worth considering, IMHO...

My two cents worth,
Bill Bryant

>
> On Jan 11, 2007, at 10:57 PM, pamela blalock wrote:
>
>> There is a stall, with a hole in the floor and ... Think about
>> those wobbly look cleats!
>

---

Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

[Tom Worster]

only if you take them off and wash them before washing
you hands. eee. don't want to be handling dirty covers
back at the bike, now, do you?

[Paul Harris]

I didn't want to think about that just before I leave for lunch...
I carry a travel size bottle of hand sanitizer. Comes in very handy on
brevets of any distance.

Paul
Apopka, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf

[Lois Springsteen]

Thanks for the excellent summary of cultural "shocks", Pamela.

One more thing that freaked me out the first time I was there. We walked out
of the hotel to go to dinner and we were quickly followed by the hotel staff
shouting la clé, la clé! It took us a few moments to realize that they
wanted us to leave our room key at the front desk.

So another good thing to memorize is the French word for your room number so
you can easily retrieve your key when you return from dinner.

Lois Springsteen
Santa Cruz, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
pamela blalock
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:33 PM
To: 'jake Kassen'; ran...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Randon] Re: How to act at PBP

Learn these key phrases...

That's it.

_____

<< ella for Spam Control >> has removed 450 Spam messages and set aside 255
Newsletters for me
You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com

[David Buzzee]

One of the more interesting news items today.  I have heard of the occasional bike rider being arrested for riding drunk but this is a first.  Perhaps not a problem for those going to ride in France, but for others - take a low profile, even at the gym.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ct/20070226/cr_ct/womansdrunkenbikerideleadstojail;_ylt=AoUOKnCRoLrgk8VfiN4N9HpH2ocA

---

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