If you don't mind helping me out, I'm trying to compile a list of who we think are the best Rails shops out there. If you can send me your top 5 or 10 list it would be much appreciated. If you think your shop is one of the best please don't be shy about saying so -- I know I'm not shy about considering Hashrocket one of the best ;)
Cheers,
Obie Fernandez CEO & Founder | Hashrocket 904.435.1671 office 404.934.9201 mobile
Hashrocket, Inc. 320 N 1st Street Suite 712 Jacksonville Beach, FL 32250
> If you don't mind helping me out, I'm trying to compile a list of who
> we think are the best Rails shops out there. If you can send me your
> top 5 or 10 list it would be much appreciated. If you think your shop
> is one of the best please don't be shy about saying so -- I know I'm
> not shy about considering Hashrocket one of the best ;)
> Cheers,
> Obie Fernandez
> CEO & Founder | Hashrocket
> 904.435.1671 office
> 404.934.9201 mobile
> Hashrocket, Inc.
> 320 N 1st Street
> Suite 712
> Jacksonville Beach, FL 32250
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Obie Fernandez <obiefernan...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> If you don't mind helping me out, I'm trying to compile a list of who
>> we think are the best Rails shops out there. If you can send me your
>> top 5 or 10 list it would be much appreciated. If you think your shop
>> is one of the best please don't be shy about saying so -- I know I'm
>> not shy about considering Hashrocket one of the best ;)
>> Cheers,
>> Obie Fernandez
>> CEO & Founder | Hashrocket
>> 904.435.1671 office
>> 404.934.9201 mobile
>> Hashrocket, Inc.
>> 320 N 1st Street
>> Suite 712
>> Jacksonville Beach, FL 32250
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Robert Dempsey <robertonra...@gmail.com> wrote: > How are you measuring "best"? What's the criteria?
Robert,
Valid question. It's all relative. What makes a great Ruby on Rails shop? The team itself and what they contribute to open source? The team that delivers great products to their clients/customers? The best value for their clients? The team that launched their own product? (would 37signals fit into this?)
Without more understanding of the metrics, it's kind of a weird question to ask in a group that mostly consists of people that run their own Rails shops. :-)
Perhaps Obie can chime in and help clarify his question a bit.. :-)
Heh, I purposely left the definition of "best" open-ended :) But when I talk about best with regards to Hashrocket I mean the following attributes (among other things):
- performance and reputation (tied to delivery capabilities) - honesty and transparency - happiness and sense of humor - process discipline, stability and risk mitigation - contributions back to the community / open-source - business consulting and agile coaching
What do you guys think of as "best"?
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Christopher Redinger
<redin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hashrocket > ENTP > Relevance > InfoEther <-- not a Rails consultancy, right? > OGC > Terralien > 37Signals <-- not a Rails consultancy > Thoughtbot > Planet Argon > Edge Case
Sorry I guess I was being vague by saying simply "rails shop" -- I meant companies that build Rails applications for clients
From Obie's list, we rank high on every point. I can't speak to other Rails
firms though. To be honest, I have no idea how many of the other firms
operate, aside from what I read on their sites and their blogs. Also, I
haven't met or hung out with many people from other firms outside of a few
conferences, since running a business/school/family/speaking/etc. keeps me
busy and at home, most of the time.
- Rob
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Obie Fernandez <obiefernan...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Heh, I purposely left the definition of "best" open-ended :) But when
> I talk about best with regards to Hashrocket I mean the following
> attributes (among other things):
> - performance and reputation (tied to delivery capabilities)
> - honesty and transparency
> - happiness and sense of humor
> - process discipline, stability and risk mitigation
> - contributions back to the community / open-source
> - business consulting and agile coaching
> What do you guys think of as "best"?
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Christopher Redinger
> <redin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hashrocket
> > ENTP
> > Relevance
> > InfoEther <-- not a Rails consultancy, right?
> > OGC
> > Terralien
> > 37Signals <-- not a Rails consultancy
> > Thoughtbot
> > Planet Argon
> > Edge Case
> Sorry I guess I was being vague by saying simply "rails shop" -- I
> meant companies that build Rails applications for clients
We don't know how we compare to other countries companies, but we also
rank high on every point mentioned
I think we could also use some metrics that reflect the values Obie
mentions and some that I miss.
I think that profitability and revenue growth year on year are key ratios.
I would also include things like DOS compare to local market average
( is a great indicator of delayed projects) and employee retention
rate (good indicator of happiness).
If we could find a good metric for community contribution with those
five ratios I bet we can create a pretty good ranking.
Regards.
2009/2/12 Robert Dempsey <robertonra...@gmail.com>:
> From Obie's list, we rank high on every point. I can't speak to other Rails
> firms though. To be honest, I have no idea how many of the other firms
> operate, aside from what I read on their sites and their blogs. Also, I
> haven't met or hung out with many people from other firms outside of a few
> conferences, since running a business/school/family/speaking/etc. keeps me
> busy and at home, most of the time.
> - Rob
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Obie Fernandez <obiefernan...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Heh, I purposely left the definition of "best" open-ended :) But when
>> I talk about best with regards to Hashrocket I mean the following
>> attributes (among other things):
>> - performance and reputation (tied to delivery capabilities)
>> - honesty and transparency
>> - happiness and sense of humor
>> - process discipline, stability and risk mitigation
>> - contributions back to the community / open-source
>> - business consulting and agile coaching
>> What do you guys think of as "best"?
>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Christopher Redinger
>> <redin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hashrocket
>> > ENTP
>> > Relevance
>> > InfoEther <-- not a Rails consultancy, right?
>> > OGC
>> > Terralien
>> > 37Signals <-- not a Rails consultancy
>> > Thoughtbot
>> > Planet Argon
>> > Edge Case
>> Sorry I guess I was being vague by saying simply "rails shop" -- I
>> meant companies that build Rails applications for clients
-- Agustin Cuenca Guevara Tel. & fax +34 916 587 332
e-mail: agustin (at) aspgems (dot) com Mobile +34 629 222 222
!!!!!!Yaba-daba-doooooooo !!!!!!!!. Fred Flintstone.
I have to say that I'm finding this discussion interesting, but not so much because of the "who's on top" aspect (which can quickly devolve into a pissing contest). Rather, I'm interested because I want to see the metrics used, so I can see where I need to improve my company. I know that, being a one-man outfit (and still trying to go full-time on Rails), I'm low on the list, and I want to see how to move up the ladder, as it were.
But, if you want to have a pissing contest, that can be fun to watch too! :)
-----Original Message-----
From: rails-business@googlegroups.com [mailto:rails-business@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Obie Fernandez
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:25 PM
To: rails-business@googlegroups.com
Subject: [rails-business] Re: top rails shops by reputation?
Heh, I purposely left the definition of "best" open-ended :) But when
I talk about best with regards to Hashrocket I mean the following
attributes (among other things):
- performance and reputation (tied to delivery capabilities)
- honesty and transparency
- happiness and sense of humor
- process discipline, stability and risk mitigation
- contributions back to the community / open-source
- business consulting and agile coaching
What do you guys think of as "best"?
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Christopher Redinger
<redin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hashrocket
> ENTP
> Relevance
> InfoEther <-- not a Rails consultancy, right?
> OGC
> Terralien
> 37Signals <-- not a Rails consultancy
> Thoughtbot
> Planet Argon
> Edge Case
Sorry I guess I was being vague by saying simply "rails shop" -- I
meant companies that build Rails applications for clients
> I have to say that I'm finding this discussion interesting, but not
> so much because of the "who's on top" aspect (which can quickly
> devolve into a pissing contest). Rather, I'm interested because I
> want to see the metrics used, so I can see where I need to improve
> my company. I know that, being a one-man outfit (and still trying
> to go full-time on Rails), I'm low on the list, and I want to see
> how to move up the ladder, as it were.
> But, if you want to have a pissing contest, that can be fun to watch
> too! :)
> - John
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rails-business@googlegroups.com [mailto:rails-business@googlegroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Obie Fernandez
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:25 PM
> To: rails-business@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [rails-business] Re: top rails shops by reputation?
> Heh, I purposely left the definition of "best" open-ended :) But when
> I talk about best with regards to Hashrocket I mean the following
> attributes (among other things):
> - performance and reputation (tied to delivery capabilities)
> - honesty and transparency
> - happiness and sense of humor
> - process discipline, stability and risk mitigation
> - contributions back to the community / open-source
> - business consulting and agile coaching
> What do you guys think of as "best"?
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Christopher Redinger
> <redin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hashrocket
>> ENTP
>> Relevance
>> InfoEther <-- not a Rails consultancy, right?
>> OGC
>> Terralien
>> 37Signals <-- not a Rails consultancy
>> Thoughtbot
>> Planet Argon
>> Edge Case
> Sorry I guess I was being vague by saying simply "rails shop" -- I
> meant companies that build Rails applications for clients
I would agree... I'd like to know how we, as a community and as business
owners, define "success". The list Obie provided is very interesting, and
I'm sure others would add their own metrics. My organization is very much in
the early stages, so we aspire to many of these attributes but are focused
only a few key goals at this point. I'm curious to hear more from this
discussion.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 11:38 AM, will.sargent <will.sarg...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I'd love to see something constructive as well: what common values do
> the rails shops share, and what can they learn from each other.
> Will.
> On Feb 12, 2009, at 8:10 AM, John Moody <j...@mentalvelocity.com> wrote:
> > I have to say that I'm finding this discussion interesting, but not
> > so much because of the "who's on top" aspect (which can quickly
> > devolve into a pissing contest). Rather, I'm interested because I
> > want to see the metrics used, so I can see where I need to improve
> > my company. I know that, being a one-man outfit (and still trying
> > to go full-time on Rails), I'm low on the list, and I want to see
> > how to move up the ladder, as it were.
> > But, if you want to have a pissing contest, that can be fun to watch
> > too! :)
> > - John
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rails-business@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> rails-business@googlegroups.com
> > ] On Behalf Of Obie Fernandez
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:25 PM
> > To: rails-business@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: [rails-business] Re: top rails shops by reputation?
> > Heh, I purposely left the definition of "best" open-ended :) But when
> > I talk about best with regards to Hashrocket I mean the following
> > attributes (among other things):
> > - performance and reputation (tied to delivery capabilities)
> > - honesty and transparency
> > - happiness and sense of humor
> > - process discipline, stability and risk mitigation
> > - contributions back to the community / open-source
> > - business consulting and agile coaching
> > What do you guys think of as "best"?
> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Christopher Redinger
> > <redin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hashrocket
> >> ENTP
> >> Relevance
> >> InfoEther <-- not a Rails consultancy, right?
> >> OGC
> >> Terralien
> >> 37Signals <-- not a Rails consultancy
> >> Thoughtbot
> >> Planet Argon
> >> Edge Case
> > Sorry I guess I was being vague by saying simply "rails shop" -- I
> > meant companies that build Rails applications for clients
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:38 AM, will.sargent <will.sarg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd love to see something constructive as well: what common values do
> the rails shops share, and what can they learn from each other.
> Will.
> On Feb 12, 2009, at 8:10 AM, John Moody <j...@mentalvelocity.com> wrote:
>> I have to say that I'm finding this discussion interesting, but not
>> so much because of the "who's on top" aspect (which can quickly
>> devolve into a pissing contest). Rather, I'm interested because I
>> want to see the metrics used, so I can see where I need to improve
>> my company. I know that, being a one-man outfit (and still trying
>> to go full-time on Rails), I'm low on the list, and I want to see
>> how to move up the ladder, as it were.
>> But, if you want to have a pissing contest, that can be fun to watch
>> too! :)
>> - John
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rails-business@googlegroups.com [mailto:rails-business@googlegroups.com
>> ] On Behalf Of Obie Fernandez
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:25 PM
>> To: rails-business@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: [rails-business] Re: top rails shops by reputation?
>> Heh, I purposely left the definition of "best" open-ended :) But when
>> I talk about best with regards to Hashrocket I mean the following
>> attributes (among other things):
>> - performance and reputation (tied to delivery capabilities)
>> - honesty and transparency
>> - happiness and sense of humor
>> - process discipline, stability and risk mitigation
>> - contributions back to the community / open-source
>> - business consulting and agile coaching
>> What do you guys think of as "best"?
>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Christopher Redinger
>> <redin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hashrocket
>>> ENTP
>>> Relevance
>>> InfoEther <-- not a Rails consultancy, right?
>>> OGC
>>> Terralien
>>> 37Signals <-- not a Rails consultancy
>>> Thoughtbot
>>> Planet Argon
>>> Edge Case
>> Sorry I guess I was being vague by saying simply "rails shop" -- I
>> meant companies that build Rails applications for clients
-- Robby Russell
Chief Evangelist, Partner
PLANET ARGON, LLC
design // development // hosting w/Ruby on Rails
Speaking of values, I've been half-assedly considering building an industry association (Obie will remember my blatherings on this from two railsconfs ago).
Basically, the plan is we'd build up a charter of values and call it "certified rails development agency" or something like that. Really just a way of differentiating the "Good agencies" from the bad ones, and having some form of reputation metric (aka booting people out)
What do you think? I thought "oscert" was a great name since the cert is collaboratively developed.
> Speaking of values, I've been half-assedly considering building an > industry association (Obie will remember my blatherings on this from > two railsconfs ago).
> Basically, the plan is we'd build up a charter of values and call it > "certified rails development agency" or something like that. Really > just a way of differentiating the "Good agencies" from the bad ones, > and having some form of reputation metric (aka booting people out)
> What do you think? I thought "oscert" was a great name since the cert > is collaboratively developed.
How would you validate the agencies? I'm an agency of one so you'd have to take my word for it wouldn't you? Not that I'm a bad one, but how would you know if I was and just decided to lie about it? Which is probably if I'm a bad one :)
If you do this, I'd personally love to see a list of "designers we've worked with that are great and have an understanding of rails" that could be tapped into. I'm sure they would probably appreciate a reciprocal list. Something like programmermeetdesigner.com, but minus the job/project aspect and more just reference based.
I spent a *lot* of my career in the certification industry - mostly in Microsoft land, but the lessons are general. Based on those years, I would argue STRENUOUSLY against anything that smacks of certifying Rails developers. No good will come of it (I'll hold off on the extended rant for now).
An industry association with some guiding principles that everyone agrees to follow is a somewhat different idea. But I'd counsel you not to call it "certified" anything. That will just put you into the wrong mental bucket for too many people.
> Speaking of values, I've been half-assedly considering building an > industry association (Obie will remember my blatherings on this from > two railsconfs ago).
> Basically, the plan is we'd build up a charter of values and call it > "certified rails development agency" or something like that. Really > just a way of differentiating the "Good agencies" from the bad ones, > and having some form of reputation metric (aka booting people out)
> What do you think? I thought "oscert" was a great name since the cert > is collaboratively developed.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Mike Gunderloy <larkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I spent a *lot* of my career in the certification industry - mostly in > Microsoft land, but the lessons are general. Based on those years, I > would argue STRENUOUSLY against anything that smacks of certifying > Rails developers. No good will come of it (I'll hold off on the > extended rant for now).
> An industry association with some guiding principles that everyone > agrees to follow is a somewhat different idea. But I'd counsel you not > to call it "certified" anything. That will just put you into the wrong > mental bucket for too many people.
Yes yes industry association. That's what I meant.
You just keep a list of members, the values we all hold, and if there's a complaint against someone you investigate and kick them out :)
It's like getting professional insurance. You answer the questionnaire, and they give you the coverage. If you lie and shit hits the fan, it's pretty obvious that you lied, and you get denied compensation. If you're one of the bad ones, you may get in initially, but your peeved customers will quickly find a place to air their complaints.
Who pays for the investigation of claims? How is the value of club membership created in potential clients? It seems like joining such a club might dilute the brand imaging of highly recognizable consultancies, and small shops would be hesitant to spend their limited funds for membership.
<aaron.blohow...@gmail.com> wrote: > Who pays for the investigation of claims? How is the value of club > membership created in potential clients? It seems like joining such a club > might dilute the brand imaging of highly recognizable consultancies, and > small shops would be hesitant to spend their limited funds for membership.
These are valid questions. Obviously there'd have to be buy-in from the big guys. There would also have to be a benefit from being a member, and the association would also have to have teeth.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Courtenay <court3...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Aaron Blohowiak > <aaron.blohow...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Who pays for the investigation of claims? How is the value of club >> membership created in potential clients? It seems like joining such a club >> might dilute the brand imaging of highly recognizable consultancies, and >> small shops would be hesitant to spend their limited funds for membership.
Also, we're often dealing with fallout from small consultancies ditching clients. So.. maybe that's a good thing. If the aim as an industry association is to say, "hey, we're reliable and also excellent" then a one-man shop probably isn't going to be THAT reliable. Just sayin'.
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Courtenay <court3...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Aaron Blohowiak >> <aaron.blohow...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Who pays for the investigation of claims? How is the value of club >>> membership created in potential clients? It seems like joining >>> such a club >>> might dilute the brand imaging of highly recognizable >>> consultancies, and >>> small shops would be hesitant to spend their limited funds for >>> membership.
> Also, we're often dealing with fallout from small consultancies > ditching clients. So.. maybe that's a good thing. If the aim as an > industry association is to say, "hey, we're reliable and also > excellent" then a one-man shop probably isn't going to be THAT > reliable. Just sayin'.
I know you don't mean it that way, but there's no reason a one-man shop isn't just as reliable as larger shop. I'm a one man shop and have every incentive to serve my customers as well as you do. More so since I can't say "well, our developer Joe Bob went AWOL. We've fired him, and now all is well".
Case in point... 9 years ago my wife's company did a 6-figure deal with one of the largest web shops in the Seattle area. Why they did it we will never understand. It was horrific. The delivered product was unusable. I personally fixed it in about 8 hours of serious perl hacking over several hundred files. Who was more reliable? Of course, did her company bring their next web project to my small web firm? No. So maybe that's a bad example :-)
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Philip Hallstrom <phi...@pjkh.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Courtenay <court3...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Aaron Blohowiak >>> <aaron.blohow...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Who pays for the investigation of claims? How is the value of club >>>> membership created in potential clients? It seems like joining >>>> such a club >>>> might dilute the brand imaging of highly recognizable >>>> consultancies, and >>>> small shops would be hesitant to spend their limited funds for >>>> membership.
>> Also, we're often dealing with fallout from small consultancies >> ditching clients. So.. maybe that's a good thing. If the aim as an >> industry association is to say, "hey, we're reliable and also >> excellent" then a one-man shop probably isn't going to be THAT >> reliable. Just sayin'.
> I know you don't mean it that way, but there's no reason a one-man > shop isn't just as reliable as larger shop. I'm a one man shop and > have every incentive to serve my customers as well as you do. More so > since I can't say "well, our developer Joe Bob went AWOL. We've fired > him, and now all is well".
Of course, but that's the point. Say you have two people, and the one other developer gets ill, or quits, who will replace them on the job? Wait, it's just you. You either double your workload (not possible) or .. what? You're probably fairly screwed.
>>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Courtenay <court3...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Aaron Blohowiak >>>> <aaron.blohow...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Who pays for the investigation of claims? How is the value of >>>>> club >>>>> membership created in potential clients? It seems like joining >>>>> such a club >>>>> might dilute the brand imaging of highly recognizable >>>>> consultancies, and >>>>> small shops would be hesitant to spend their limited funds for >>>>> membership.
>>> Also, we're often dealing with fallout from small consultancies >>> ditching clients. So.. maybe that's a good thing. If the aim as an >>> industry association is to say, "hey, we're reliable and also >>> excellent" then a one-man shop probably isn't going to be THAT >>> reliable. Just sayin'.
>> I know you don't mean it that way, but there's no reason a one-man >> shop isn't just as reliable as larger shop. I'm a one man shop and >> have every incentive to serve my customers as well as you do. More >> so >> since I can't say "well, our developer Joe Bob went AWOL. We've fired >> him, and now all is well".
> Of course, but that's the point. Say you have two people, and the one > other developer gets ill, or quits, who will replace them on the job? > Wait, it's just you. You either double your workload (not possible) > or .. what? You're probably fairly screwed.
Perhaps. Or the client understands folks get sick and doesn't sweat the lost couple of days :) I see where you're coming from, but I've also seen the other side. For 6 years I ran a 5 person web firm. Probably 70% of our work was from clients we'd bid on, lost "because we were too small" and then 3 months later got a call from cause things hadn't worked out well with the big firm they picked.
My real concern is that I can safely say I'd never join an association where there was a reliability ranking based on the size of the company. I just don't think it's that accurate and certainly not advantageous to me! :) So if you don't have any of the one person, two person, or <5 people shops... who's left to make the association legitimate?
Although honestly, if it exists and only the big folks join it, that still benefits everyone since as they get overloaded they can sub it out to the smaller shops :)
-1 to the entire association thing. Regardless of size, if you (as a business or individual) are lying about what you can do, falsely advertising, and failing clients time and time again, that will become apparent in that you will cease to exist as a company. We don't need an association to help Darwin people out. People can do that all by themselves.
-1 for certifications. I have multiple certifications (M$) and they only mean you can pass a test. Hell, some certifications don't even require a test. This takes me back to my above point.
Also, I have yet to see any industry association be able to benefit large and small organizations alike. That's the great thing about the open source community. Individuals can rise to the level of a company of any size, and often times go even higher.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Robert Dempsey <robertonra...@gmail.com> wrote: > -1 for certifications. I have multiple certifications (M$) and they only > mean you can pass a test. Hell, some certifications don't even require a > test. This takes me back to my above point.
+1. Or -1 I guess. I too have multiple certifications, that I don't bother advertising any more. My impression is that in the Java world, certifications became a way for the headhunters to shop devs around, rather than any indication of anything useful, like coding ability.
I agree with Mike here, I spent my time in Microsoft certification land and
putting Rails developers through a merit badge process is one of the worst
ideas I have ever heard. Are we trying to follow down the path of Novell
and Microsoft with their useless certifications?
No good can come of this, let's not even entertain this beyond the few who
have been unfortunate enough to read it here.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Mike Gunderloy <larkw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I spent a *lot* of my career in the certification industry - mostly in
> Microsoft land, but the lessons are general. Based on those years, I
> would argue STRENUOUSLY against anything that smacks of certifying
> Rails developers. No good will come of it (I'll hold off on the
> extended rant for now).
> An industry association with some guiding principles that everyone
> agrees to follow is a somewhat different idea. But I'd counsel you not
> to call it "certified" anything. That will just put you into the wrong
> mental bucket for too many people.
> Mike
> > Speaking of values, I've been half-assedly considering building an
> > industry association (Obie will remember my blatherings on this from
> > two railsconfs ago).
> > Basically, the plan is we'd build up a charter of values and call it
> > "certified rails development agency" or something like that. Really
> > just a way of differentiating the "Good agencies" from the bad ones,
> > and having some form of reputation metric (aka booting people out)
> > What do you think? I thought "oscert" was a great name since the cert
> > is collaboratively developed.
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