Not sure if I'm looking for advice or encouragement.
A little about me first, I'm currently a Java programmer at a small tech company in the northwest. I primarily work on distributed applications and have had just a small amount of web development experience, nothing professional, mostly as side projects. But I've got an idea for a web application which I believe will do fairly well and generate enough revenue for a company of one or two people, maybe half a dozen if I'm really optimistic.
It's my first foray into Rails, and I've got most of the features working, but still needs quite a bit of polishing and most likely a good once over by a real look-n-feel person. I'm also worried about security since I'll be handling credit cards and other sensitive personal data.
All this, added to having to create a company, perform customer support, continue to grow the features, marketing, and the loads of other things I haven't thought of yet...is there any hope that one person can pull this off while still working at my current job ( with hopes of going it alone when I'm sure it can fly ), and giving time to my family, with very little up front costs. I've been reading quite a bit about bootstrapping lately, but to really make the time has been very difficult.
Any advice? Or do I just need to dig in and make it happen?!?
Here's some advice: You'll need a good helping of patience and endurance.
I've worked on a few startup ideas in my spare time, the most recent being Catch the Best, and I can say that the good news is that you can do it. The bad news is that it will take much more work and time than you originally think it will, even after you get the app working. Since you'll have small and intermittent blocks of time to do all those things besides building the app, such as support, marketing, legal and accounting issues, etc., it will simply take a while to get those things done. Be patient with it, though, and keep executing your plan, and you'll win eventually (or find something else more interesting to do).
Since you mentioned family, I'll make a comment about that. I too, have a family, and you have to realize you will be spending a significant amount of time on this side project, and since you probably won't be working on it at work, you will be taking time away from your family/hobby/personal play time. There's no getting around it. You are choosing to give some of that up, and you are asking your family to give some of that up, so do consider how much of your time you and they can afford to give up. In my situation, my family is very supportive and accepting of how much time my face is buried in the laptop, and that has been critical to my being able to pursue projects like these.
> Not sure if I'm looking for advice or encouragement.
> A little about me first, I'm currently a Java programmer at a small > tech company in the northwest. I primarily work on distributed > applications and have had just a small amount of web development > experience, nothing professional, mostly as side projects. But I've > got an idea for a web application which I believe will do fairly well > and generate enough revenue for a company of one or two people, maybe > half a dozen if I'm really optimistic.
> It's my first foray into Rails, and I've got most of the features > working, but still needs quite a bit of polishing and most likely a > good once over by a real look-n-feel person. I'm also worried about > security since I'll be handling credit cards and other sensitive > personal data.
> All this, added to having to create a company, perform customer > support, continue to grow the features, marketing, and the loads of > other things I haven't thought of yet...is there any hope that one > person can pull this off while still working at my current job ( with > hopes of going it alone when I'm sure it can fly ), and giving time to > my family, with very little up front costs. I've been reading quite a > bit about bootstrapping lately, but to really make the time has been > very difficult.
> Any advice? Or do I just need to dig in and make it happen?!?
Hi, I have been working for startups doing rails for the last year and also try to inch my way on my own projects as I can. You have to make it happen. If you wait for the perfect time to do it, well...it never will :) Benjamin also made some very good points about family. My wife and kids have been very understanding but there have been times when its been a challenge. There are many days I work 20 hours straight. Sometimes thats for the primary projects for clients. The startup environment can be very demanding but it has put me in the mindset of whats actually required to launch a site.
Also dont forget to start doing SEO and search engine work EARLY. Work-of-mouth is a powerful way to get your site noticed but search index rankings are critical. You may have a ton of hits when you launch but what counts is RETURNING traffic over the long-term. Some of the well-mentioned web2.0 sites don't make consistent money. I firmly believe thats because many have not done the seo work required (not including the sites that have no functional use). Ive seen many cool sites that I now use but I did not find them from search engines but by just wondering past the site one of the web2.0 directories (which is also a great place to advertise your site when its up).
I left a lead j2ee job at a big 3 consulting firm to go freelance with rubyonrails. I make less money now but wouldn't trade it for the world. :)
Ryan
On 9/11/07, Benjamin Curtis <benjamin.cur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's some advice: You'll need a good helping of patience and > endurance.
> I've worked on a few startup ideas in my spare time, the most recent > being Catch the Best, and I can say that the good news is that you > can do it. The bad news is that it will take much more work and time > than you originally think it will, even after you get the app > working. Since you'll have small and intermittent blocks of time to > do all those things besides building the app, such as support, > marketing, legal and accounting issues, etc., it will simply take a > while to get those things done. Be patient with it, though, and keep > executing your plan, and you'll win eventually (or find something > else more interesting to do).
> Since you mentioned family, I'll make a comment about that. I too, > have a family, and you have to realize you will be spending a > significant amount of time on this side project, and since you > probably won't be working on it at work, you will be taking time away > from your family/hobby/personal play time. There's no getting around > it. You are choosing to give some of that up, and you are asking > your family to give some of that up, so do consider how much of your > time you and they can afford to give up. In my situation, my family > is very supportive and accepting of how much time my face is buried > in the laptop, and that has been critical to my being able to pursue > projects like these.
> > Not sure if I'm looking for advice or encouragement.
> > A little about me first, I'm currently a Java programmer at a small > > tech company in the northwest. I primarily work on distributed > > applications and have had just a small amount of web development > > experience, nothing professional, mostly as side projects. But I've > > got an idea for a web application which I believe will do fairly well > > and generate enough revenue for a company of one or two people, maybe > > half a dozen if I'm really optimistic.
> > It's my first foray into Rails, and I've got most of the features > > working, but still needs quite a bit of polishing and most likely a > > good once over by a real look-n-feel person. I'm also worried about > > security since I'll be handling credit cards and other sensitive > > personal data.
> > All this, added to having to create a company, perform customer > > support, continue to grow the features, marketing, and the loads of > > other things I haven't thought of yet...is there any hope that one > > person can pull this off while still working at my current job ( with > > hopes of going it alone when I'm sure it can fly ), and giving time to > > my family, with very little up front costs. I've been reading quite a > > bit about bootstrapping lately, but to really make the time has been > > very difficult.
> > Any advice? Or do I just need to dig in and make it happen?!?
I created a startup of a different sort. EdgeCase is a consulting and training company, not a product company. We have gone from 3 to 10+ in less than 12 months and things are continuing to grow. It's been fun, but very time-consuming.
I wanted to mainly chime in on the family part. Something that has taken a year for me to figure out how to balance. I would not have been able to do any of it, had it not been for my wife's full support. I have three kids, all of whom I love spending time with, so figuring out a way to balance it all has been very tricky. Up front though, my wife and I knew this would not be your typical job. It helped that I used to travel and now do not, but it has still been an adjustment.
This of course might not apply to everyone, but it's finally starting to work for me. Make sure to schedule time for the family. Schedule it just like you do anything else, an accounting appointment, a feature release, etc... I have finally become realistic about the time constraints I'm going to be under. Instead of striving for a 50 hour week every week and disappointing everyone when I work 80, I just admit that it's going to be 70-80 and work around that. I try to be creative about it. Come home after work at 5:30, have dinner and play with the kids (no laptop in sight) and then go back to work. Or they know that on Tuesdays and Thursdays I'm completely gone (note, these are all just examples). Even better is the 'family night' that my four year old looks forward to. I'm not allowed to open the computer once I step foot inside the house until the next day. This helps even out the weekend time that I do leave for it.
You also need to keep your sanity in mind. As Ben said above (or below depending on your reader), you are giving up everything, including free time. Time with your family (whether it's playing blocks in the floor for an hour, or having dinner with your wife) can be a release, just make sure to include it in.
Taking time from the family (at least for me) also used to mean a lot of guilt. When I schedule time away to work and everyone knows about it, it helps tremendously. I can admit that I love what I do, and want to spend time doing it.
I've never worked harder in my life, but have never enjoyed myself more either.
Good luck, and keep us posted on how it goes.
- Joe
Joe O'Brien theedgecase.com objo.com
On Sep 11, 4:35 pm, "Ryan Richards" <abstractr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I have been working for startups doing rails for the last year and also > try to inch my way on my own projects as I can. You have to make it happen. > If you wait for the perfect time to do it, well...it never will :) Benjamin > also made some very good points about family. My wife and kids have been > very understanding but there have been times when its been a challenge. > There are many days I work 20 hours straight. Sometimes thats for the > primary projects for clients. The startup environment can be very demanding > but it has put me in the mindset of whats actually required to launch a > site.
> Also dont forget to start doing SEO and search engine work EARLY. > Work-of-mouth is a powerful way to get your site noticed but search index > rankings are critical. You may have a ton of hits when you launch but what > counts is RETURNING traffic over the long-term. Some of the well-mentioned > web2.0 sites don't make consistent money. I firmly believe thats because > many have not done the seo work required (not including the sites that have > no functional use). Ive seen many cool sites that I now use but I did not > find them from search engines but by just wondering past the site one of the > web2.0 directories (which is also a great place to advertise your site when > its up).
> I left a lead j2ee job at a big 3 consulting firm to go freelance with > rubyonrails. I make less money now but wouldn't trade it for the world. :)
> Ryan
> On 9/11/07, Benjamin Curtis <benjamin.cur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Here's some encouragement: Yes, you can do it.
> > Here's some advice: You'll need a good helping of patience and > > endurance.
> > I've worked on a few startup ideas in my spare time, the most recent > > being Catch the Best, and I can say that the good news is that you > > can do it. The bad news is that it will take much more work and time > > than you originally think it will, even after you get the app > > working. Since you'll have small and intermittent blocks of time to > > do all those things besides building the app, such as support, > > marketing, legal and accounting issues, etc., it will simply take a > > while to get those things done. Be patient with it, though, and keep > > executing your plan, and you'll win eventually (or find something > > else more interesting to do).
> > Since you mentioned family, I'll make a comment about that. I too, > > have a family, and you have to realize you will be spending a > > significant amount of time on this side project, and since you > > probably won't be working on it at work, you will be taking time away > > from your family/hobby/personal play time. There's no getting around > > it. You are choosing to give some of that up, and you are asking > > your family to give some of that up, so do consider how much of your > > time you and they can afford to give up. In my situation, my family > > is very supportive and accepting of how much time my face is buried > > in the laptop, and that has been critical to my being able to pursue > > projects like these.
> > > Not sure if I'm looking for advice or encouragement.
> > > A little about me first, I'm currently a Java programmer at a small > > > tech company in the northwest. I primarily work on distributed > > > applications and have had just a small amount of web development > > > experience, nothing professional, mostly as side projects. But I've > > > got an idea for a web application which I believe will do fairly well > > > and generate enough revenue for a company of one or two people, maybe > > > half a dozen if I'm really optimistic.
> > > It's my first foray into Rails, and I've got most of the features > > > working, but still needs quite a bit of polishing and most likely a > > > good once over by a real look-n-feel person. I'm also worried about > > > security since I'll be handling credit cards and other sensitive > > > personal data.
> > > All this, added to having to create a company, perform customer > > > support, continue to grow the features, marketing, and the loads of > > > other things I haven't thought of yet...is there any hope that one > > > person can pull this off while still working at my current job ( with > > > hopes of going it alone when I'm sure it can fly ), and giving time to > > > my family, with very little up front costs. I've been reading quite a > > > bit about bootstrapping lately, but to really make the time has been > > > very difficult.
> > > Any advice? Or do I just need to dig in and make it happen?!?
I'm new to Rails and Ruby, so I really can chime in about that. And I work for a big company and have only dreams and no practical advice to toss in. But I wanted to say that "side project" and "family" don't necessarily have to be in conflict with each other. Find something your family is interested in doing and do it together. It could be something that pulls you all together in a new way.
I have one example that I read about and a personal example that I can share with you. Last week I saw an article about http://www.kiva.org/. The story as I understand it is the wife wanted to go to Africa and learn about micro lending and the husband wanted to go to Silicon Valley and be an internet entrepreneurial. After a few months of living apart, with a lot of strain on their marriage (or at least I imagine), they come up with the idea of using the internet to empower microlending like www.prosper.com does for personal loans.
Now the personal example: I have been trying to learn Hindi for the past 10+ years, but I could never commit myself to doing it everyday. At the same time, I really wanted a side project that could eventually turn into something. Well, I have three Hindi speakers that live with me (wife, mother-in-law, father-in-law), and so there really was no excuse not to learn. So, I decided to create a daily learn Hindi podcast. I'm also trying to create some rails applications to help people learning Hindi (quizes, teaching tools, directory of resources, etc.). (http://www.ISpeakHindi.com).
So, I think family can be a real asset. The side venture could be something to pull you all together in a new way. Won't work for everyone or everything. But at least something to consider.
Nathan
On Sep 12, 10:19 am, Joe OBrien <j...@theedgecase.com> wrote:
> I created a startup of a different sort. EdgeCase is a consulting and > training company, not a product company. We have gone from 3 to 10+ in > less than 12 months and things are continuing to grow. It's been fun, > but very time-consuming.
> I wanted to mainly chime in on the family part. Something that has > taken a year for me to figure out how to balance. I would not have > been able to do any of it, had it not been for my wife's full > support. I have three kids, all of whom I love spending time with, so > figuring out a way to balance it all has been very tricky. Up front > though, my wife and I knew this would not be your typical job. It > helped that I used to travel and now do not, but it has still been an > adjustment.
> This of course might not apply to everyone, but it's finally starting > to work for me. Make sure to schedule time for the family. Schedule > it just like you do anything else, an accounting appointment, a > feature release, etc... I have finally become realistic about the > time constraints I'm going to be under. Instead of striving for a 50 > hour week every week and disappointing everyone when I work 80, I just > admit that it's going to be 70-80 and work around that. I try to be > creative about it. Come home after work at 5:30, have dinner and play > with the kids (no laptop in sight) and then go back to work. Or they > know that on Tuesdays and Thursdays I'm completely gone (note, these > are all just examples). Even better is the 'family night' that my > four year old looks forward to. I'm not allowed to open the computer > once I step foot inside the house until the next day. This helps even > out the weekend time that I do leave for it.
> You also need to keep your sanity in mind. As Ben said above (or > below depending on your reader), you are giving up everything, > including free time. Time with your family (whether it's playing > blocks in the floor for an hour, or having dinner with your wife) can > be a release, just make sure to include it in.
> Taking time from the family (at least for me) also used to mean a lot > of guilt. When I schedule time away to work and everyone knows about > it, it helps tremendously. I can admit that I love what I do, and > want to spend time doing it.
> I've never worked harder in my life, but have never enjoyed myself > more either.
> Good luck, and keep us posted on how it goes.
> - Joe
> Joe O'Brien > theedgecase.com > objo.com
> On Sep 11, 4:35 pm, "Ryan Richards" <abstractr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi, I have been working for startups doing rails for the last year and also > > try to inch my way on my own projects as I can. You have to make it happen. > > If you wait for the perfect time to do it, well...it never will :) Benjamin > > also made some very good points about family. My wife and kids have been > > very understanding but there have been times when its been a challenge. > > There are many days I work 20 hours straight. Sometimes thats for the > > primary projects for clients. The startup environment can be very demanding > > but it has put me in the mindset of whats actually required to launch a > > site.
> > Also dont forget to start doing SEO and search engine work EARLY. > > Work-of-mouth is a powerful way to get your site noticed but search index > > rankings are critical. You may have a ton of hits when you launch but what > > counts is RETURNING traffic over the long-term. Some of the well-mentioned > > web2.0 sites don't make consistent money. I firmly believe thats because > > many have not done the seo work required (not including the sites that have > > no functional use). Ive seen many cool sites that I now use but I did not > > find them from search engines but by just wondering past the site one of the > > web2.0 directories (which is also a great place to advertise your site when > > its up).
> > I left a lead j2ee job at a big 3 consulting firm to go freelance with > > rubyonrails. I make less money now but wouldn't trade it for the world. :)
> > Ryan
> > On 9/11/07, Benjamin Curtis <benjamin.cur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Here's some encouragement: Yes, you can do it.
> > > Here's some advice: You'll need a good helping of patience and > > > endurance.
> > > I've worked on a few startup ideas in my spare time, the most recent > > > being Catch the Best, and I can say that the good news is that you > > > can do it. The bad news is that it will take much more work and time > > > than you originally think it will, even after you get the app > > > working. Since you'll have small and intermittent blocks of time to > > > do all those things besides building the app, such as support, > > > marketing, legal and accounting issues, etc., it will simply take a > > > while to get those things done. Be patient with it, though, and keep > > > executing your plan, and you'll win eventually (or find something > > > else more interesting to do).
> > > Since you mentioned family, I'll make a comment about that. I too, > > > have a family, and you have to realize you will be spending a > > > significant amount of time on this side project, and since you > > > probably won't be working on it at work, you will be taking time away > > > from your family/hobby/personal play time. There's no getting around > > > it. You are choosing to give some of that up, and you are asking > > > your family to give some of that up, so do consider how much of your > > > time you and they can afford to give up. In my situation, my family > > > is very supportive and accepting of how much time my face is buried > > > in the laptop, and that has been critical to my being able to pursue > > > projects like these.
> > > On Sep 11, 2007, at 9:21 AM, michael m wrote:
> > > > Not sure if I'm looking for advice or encouragement.
> > > > A little about me first, I'm currently a Java programmer at a small > > > > tech company in the northwest. I primarily work on distributed > > > > applications and have had just a small amount of web development > > > > experience, nothing professional, mostly as side projects. But I've > > > > got an idea for a web application which I believe will do fairly well > > > > and generate enough revenue for a company of one or two people, maybe > > > > half a dozen if I'm really optimistic.
> > > > It's my first foray into Rails, and I've got most of the features > > > > working, but still needs quite a bit of polishing and most likely a > > > > good once over by a real look-n-feel person. I'm also worried about > > > > security since I'll be handling credit cards and other sensitive > > > > personal data.
> > > > All this, added to having to create a company, perform customer > > > > support, continue to grow the features, marketing, and the loads of > > > > other things I haven't thought of yet...is there any hope that one > > > > person can pull this off while still working at my current job ( with > > > > hopes of going it alone when I'm sure it can fly ), and giving time to > > > > my family, with very little up front costs. I've been reading quite a > > > > bit about bootstrapping lately, but to really make the time has been > > > > very difficult.
> > > > Any advice? Or do I just need to dig in and make it happen?!?
I'd also echo the sentiments of the others on here. I left an extremely well paid job at a Consultancy firm and setup a development company in a similar vein to Joe. We've worked hard and been lucky and grown from me to 3 - so not quite Joe's stellar growth but it shows there's a range of success out there! I got home one day after years of talking about it and announced i'd resigned!
Firstly, i spent years trying to get things going while still in employment - but it was never enough and work commitments would often get in the way of progress (pesky job!). I think there are two kinds of people in the world (well, possibly more, but for the purpose of this point, there are 2): those who talk about starting their own business and those who do it. I got fed up with talking about it and took the leap.
Secondly, about getting things perfect. Again, trying to get something perfect before going ahead and doing something with it is another hanging point. Look around, and you'll see that the people that make megabucks don't wait for perfection, they go with what they've got and aim for perfection at some point in the future (if at all!). It sucks if you're a perfectionist, but sometimes you've just gotta do it. I think the rush you get from getting something out there or progressed will inspire you and reinvigorate you for the next phase of a project.
Third, the family front. I am really bad at this. I admit, i'm a workaholic and haven't yet worked out how not to be. If my fiance and pooch didn't remind me they were here then i would be sat at my desk working - i'd eat there, sleep there and never move apart from client meetings. This is bad and needs working on - there is a balance that many people find, but i'm just not there yet. You need the support of your partner before you take the leap and also once you've taken the leap. I'd say this is key to success - without it the conflict that would likely ensue would scupper any chance of success.
Fourth, use the community. I notice you say you're concerned about handling credit cards, etc - if it's something you're not sure about how it works then ask. Most of us will already have dealt with these issues or be approaching them ourselves.
Fifth, define success. I think you also need to set some realistic goals of what you want to achieve. Without these goals, how will you know when you have succeeded? How will you know if you have failed? I'd say this is another key point, as you need to have a contingency plan for dealing with failure, and a reward plan for when you succeed! I'm not talking over-engineered corporate mumbo jumbo here, just basic bullets about what you want to achieve.
In summary, you need to make a choice - are you a talker or an action man?
Thanks for all the info and the words of encouragement. I've continued to forge ahead on the product (although progress is being measured in millimeters, but progress it is), and I also used some local resources by talking with a SCORE counselor. He gave me a ton of info on the biz side, getting a license, ideas for a comprehensive biz plan, creating a cash flow diagram to estimate inflow and outflow, and a host of other topics. If any of you are looking for more information about starting a business I'd highly recommend visiting your local SCORE office, and it's free!
