radicaldebates Google Group

Re: if the workers ruled the world

c...@zigzag.pl (Laure) — Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:45:17 UT

I wouldn't be so judgemental; I know different kinds of people in the IWW
and some are committed ecologists - which is not the same as a primitivist,
but also certainly not the same as someone devoid of any environmental
awareness.

Yes there are technoapologists in the movement. My contact with it is

Re: if the workers ruled the world

shimshamm...@yahoo.com (Shimmy Shammy) — Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:09:10 UT

The IWW is a stale and mostly useless relic tired leftist "anarchism".
Perhaps, back in the day, when people were just getting over the idea
that the earth was round and before the environmental degradation was
truly appreciated, the wobblies had a leg to stand on. Nowadays they
seem to be techno-apologists for all sorts of industrial crimes against

if the workers ruled the world

c...@zigzag.pl (Laure) — Sun, 17 Jul 2005 07:13:57 UT

Workers' control in and of itself does not help. There are other factors
even more important.

Firstly, workers' control in capitalist society may have its limitations.
For example, will the workers have to compete on the market with other firms
which have lower labour costs and standards and will consumers be willing to

Re: RADICALDEBATES Group Notes & Guidelines

shimshamm...@yahoo.com (Shimmy Shammy) — Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:26:10 UT

Alright, about a couple dozen or so are signed-up and ready to go. It
would be nice to see some lively debate. Please come to the group
page, check out the principles, guidelines, and topics... and then post
away! I have a feeling there will be a diversity of opinions based
upon those I invited (and mildly provoked).

If the IWW ran Chernobyl there would still be accidents.

shimshamm...@yahoo.com (Shimmy Shammy) — Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:18:51 UT

If the IWW ran a strip mine it would still be destructive. If the
Wobblies ran the world's largest lumber mill (Pacific Lumber's) they
would still need to clearcut to achieve full utilization of that mill.
If they did not continue exploiting natural resources in the most
expedient and efficient manner they would cease to be competitive with

RADICALDEBATES Group Notes & Guidelines

shimshamm...@yahoo.com (Shimmy Shammy) — Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:15:01 UT

This forum is for those who want and promote radical change in favor of
life and freedom. Members are thus urged not to hold back their
opinions since, while silence may be useful for some activists, silence
in these times may very well amount to a living death. Anonymity will
be respected so that people will not be punished for using their

The Parecon (Albert) vs. Primitivism (Zerzan) debate...

shimshamm...@yahoo.com (Shimmy Shammy) — Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:13:30 UT

What is you take on this debate? Perhaps it should be post-left
anarchy Vs. leftist anarchy (i.e. socialism).
Here is the original debate between Albert and Zerzan --
[link]

What are the implications of Peak Oil?

shimshamm...@yahoo.com (Shimmy Shammy) — Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:12:32 UT

The best information on this subject is found at dieoff.com but there
are many other sites on the subject. What is your take on Peak Oil?

What happened on 9/11/01

shimshamm...@yahoo.com (Shimmy Shammy) — Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:10:56 UT

Porter Goss, former congressman who co-chaired the 9/11 Investigative
Committee and current head of the CIA (appointed by President George W.
Bush), was at a meeting with the General Ahmoud Ahmad -- head of
Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence agency (ISI) -- on the morning of
September 11th, 2001 when two hijacked jets rammed into the World Trade

Genetically Engineered Food & Property Destruction

shimshamm...@yahoo.com (Shimmy Shammy) — Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:09:41 UT

What do you think about genetic engineering and what should be done
with/about it?
[link]
[link]
[link]

The Pathology of Pacifism

shimshamm...@yahoo.com (Shimmy Shammy) — Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:08:45 UT

The book by Ward Churchill, Pacifism as Pathology
[link]
[link]
What do we think people? The forum is open...

Did Julia "Butterfly" Hill sell out?

shimshamm...@yahoo.com (Shimmy Shammy) — Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:07:00 UT

The Julia Butterfly Show (& follow-up article)
If your a blissed-out hippie looking for easy answers then the "We The
Planet" tour is for you. Serious environmentalists, on the other
hand,might want to pass if they don't want to gag on the sappy sweet
patronizing of Julia "Butterfly" Hill.
Sporting a huge crystal butterfly pendant, Ms. Hill takes to the