Quantum 2+2 being broken :(

[barnacle]

And you have no idea how much that hurts...

Some of you will know my Fiat Coupe five cylinder turbo powered 2+2. Unfortunately, even after four years or so of development, it has not been possible to cure a vicious but unpredictable torque effect which, at high power, has a tendency to launch the car at the ditch. The time has come  to draw a line under it and concentrate on the rolling (and expensive!) restoration of my Fiat Coupe instead. Because of the potentially lethal handling effect, I am not selling the car complete.

Instead, I'm removing the Fiat engine and gearbox and offering either a rolling chassis, or, if there's no interest in that, then the various parts. All suspension and moving parts have under six thousand miles on them.

So here's the list:

Rolling chassis, sans engine, gearbox, driveshafts, ECU, and suchlike

4 x Team Dynamic Monza wheels with Toyo T1-R tyres: two new (fitted a fortnight ago) and two with better than 5mm tread: 185/60R15 (from memory) - the wheels are quite a low offset so will stick out a tiny bit on a Quantum
1 x Ford Pepperpot allow 13" with frankly rubbish tyre (the spare)
2 x front XR2 shock absorbers
2 x rear XR2 shock absorbers
1 x rear axle, swing arms, etc
2 x brake calipers: V6 Mondeo (need a 15" wheel to clear)
2 x doors with drop glass and powered winders
2 x leather seats, I believe from Audi TT
1 x steel fuel tank with internal swirl pot and external high pressure pump and filter
1 x Fiat Coupe hydraulic powered steering rack with Fiesta track rods
1 x hard top and rear glass
1 x soft top, really only good for a pattern, but with the irons
1 x stainless steel exhaust, will need the front changing to mate with Ford engines
1 x boot with lock and gas ram lifters
1 x bonnet, modified to fit around a larger radiator but usable as is.

No doubt some other sundry parts... note that the engine frame has been *severely* modified to accommodate the Fiat engine and the suspension points have been moved. Ideally you'd want to rebuild this, or drop a new one on. The front bulkhead has had a small (2" by 6") hole cut to fit the Fiat pedal box and brake servo; easily fixed with a plate.

As it stands, the car is road legal with an MOT from a fortnight ago. I'll be dropping the engine and gearbox out next weekend (27th). The car is at FCSS in Upton upon Severn (just off the M5 near Tewkesbury) so will need collecting from there.

If anyone's interested in anything, make me an offer. If not, the wheels will go on eBay and the rest will go to the scrappy.

Neil

[jon jackson]

So sorry to read this.

Projects can be very hard to complete fully and 4x4 is probably the only way to tame this beast.

I spent several years building a 4x4 special and got it to the stage of racing it in a grass event in Devon but when I lost my job I sold the project to a man in Kent. I have not seen it since but it looked like a fifties racer sort of Jag C type, I dont miss it its only a car.

Your car is proof that you really can have too much power!

Good luck with the sale.

 

Jon 2+2 RST

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[Hans Defauwes]

Niel,

 

The thorque problem can be solved by using the Fiesta 3 piece drive shaft axles

Fiesta MK1 sprint if I am correct.

The long drivesaft that causes the torque problems is divided in 2 shafts!! so that the left and right driveshafts are the same length – with a  support bearing in the middle that is bolted to the CVH

In order to fit it to your Fiat engine you need to make a bracket . .  of some kind.

 

Hard to find but they are available  ( I have only one)

 

Hans

 

 

 

From: barnacle

Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:08 PM

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [Quantum Owners] Quantum 2+2 being broken :(

 

[kynastonp .]

The split driveshafts were fitted to mk2 fiestas 1.1 and 1.4 but were a small diameter so may not be suitable for large power output.

[Jim Hearne]

Are the driveshaft’s roughly horizontal in there rest state ?

Have you removed the springs and checked the driveshafts through the full suspension travel to make sure the joints aren’t bottoming out ?

 

Be interested to see the video, a good idea that to check for suspension problems on the road.

 

Jim (Just bought a plasma cutter so you don’t have to )

 

 

 

From: barnacle

Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 12:46 PM

To: quantumowners@googlegroups..com

Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Quantum 2+2 being broken :(

 

Hi Hans,

It's had split drive shafts and a viscous coupling between them (part of the original fiat design) since we built it. In recent weeks we have
- replaced tyres
- modified the tie bars to ensure symmetry
- boxed in the swing arms
- replaced all the rubbers with PU mounts
- played with tyre pressures and camber angles
- removed the viscous coupling
- viewed with under-wheel arch cameras
- sworn and cursed

None of these have cured it. The width of the engine and gearbox means that the driveshafts are *very* short - under 30cm and we suspect that the combination of this and the fact that they are Fiat UJs at one end and Ford at the other means that there are certain conditions of power, speed, and suspension lift that trigger the lurch to port, but we can't prove it. We don't see anything on the videos... or it could be that the more outboard position of the contact patch, required for the wider wheels, is the issue, but that's another 'can't do anything about it' problem.

It has been a hoot to drive - when you're expecting the issue to raise its ugly head - but on the road, consider overtaking in 3rd gear: partway through the overtake, the torque steer needs perhaps a quarter turn of the wheel to correct. If you change up to fourth, the immediate response is of course for the car to lurch *right* because the steering is pointing that way. Not fun.

Mind you, ambling along at sixty or seventy (and bearing in mind top speed was in excess of a hundred and sixty!) it's a dream; burble burble burble from the engine and pushing forty to the gallon. It's just the bits when you want or need to use the power that failed, which rather defeats the object of the exercise.

Neil (playing with welders so you don't have to!)

On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 10:09:03 AM UTC+1, Hans wrote:

Niel,

 

The thorque problem can be solved by using the Fiesta 3 piece drive shaft axles

Fiesta MK1 sprint if I am correct.

The long drivesaft that causes the torque problems is divided in 2 shafts!! so that the left and right driveshafts are the same length – with a  support bearing in the middle that is bolted to the CVH

In order to fit it to your Fiat engine you need to make a bracket .. .  of some kind.

[Hans Defauwes]

do you have the possibility  / have you tested how much power there is on each front wheel  and shift through the gears– on a dyno

 

hans (playing with wood & cnc . . )

 

 

From: Jim Hearne

Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:58 PM

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Quantum 2+2 being broken :(

 

[barnacle]

On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 12:58:06 PM UTC+1, Jim Hearne wrote:

Are the driveshaft’s roughly horizontal in there rest state ?

Have you removed the springs and checked the driveshafts through the full suspension travel to make sure the joints aren’t bottoming out ?

 

Be interested to see the video, a good idea that to check for suspension problems on the road.

 

Jim (Just bought a plasma cutter so you don’t have to )

 

 

Jim, they're horizontal but not quite square fore and aft - the engine is mounted on a slight diagonal and can't be moved square. One cm or so. The joints don't bottom out in the workshop, but they must be pretty close - with engine movement and both wheels going up and down who knows what's happening. That's our thought also.

Anyway, the decision is made; I'm not throwing any more weekends or cash at it, so the engine's coming out on the 27th (got a decent offer for that and for the turbo).

Neil

[barnacle]

Hans, it's an intriguing suggestion but we never had the opportunity. We know from work on other Fiat Coupes that the modifications to the engine were producing around 270bhp.

Neil

[philfi2clean]

What petrol tank is in the 2+2 as i may be interested in that

phil

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 2:46 PM, barnacle <nailed....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hans, it's an intriguing suggestion but we never had the opportunity. We know from work on other Fiat Coupes that the modifications to the engine were producing around 270bhp.

Neil

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[barnacle]

On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 4:12:48 PM UTC+1, Aufer wrote:

What petrol tank is in the 2+2 as i may be interested in that

phil

Phil, it's the steel  tank, 40l I think, with the swirl pot inside - aftermarket; I couldn't find an original anywhere. There's a high pressure fuel pump and filter external to it at present. All new about three/four years ago.

Neil

p.s. and it's half full of petrol at the moment, too... I'll have to do something about that!

[philfi2clean]

Sent you an email Neil

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[Chris H]

Hi Neil,

Sorry to hear about the car.

I would be interested in the Mondeo brake calipers, how much you looking for? Would you be willig to post?

Thanks,
Chris

[Chris H]

[Hondaman]

Hi Neil,

I would be interested in the seats, Power Steering Rack and the gas struts for the boot lid.

I am travelling from Liverpool to Dorset at the weekend and could detour through Upton on Severn

Would appreciate you getting back to me with a price.

Regards

Don. 

[barnacle]

Chris, Don, you have mail.

Neil

[Mark]

Neil,

Know a bit of time has passed since you posted this. But do you have a roll bar? If so is it still available?

Thanks

Mark

On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 10:08:30 PM UTC+1, barnacle wrote:

[barnacle]

Sorry, the roll bar is gone... there's not a lot left now.

Neil

[Mark]

No worries Neil, thanks.

[barnacle]

The body tub is now scrapped; like the Norwegian Blue it is no more.

Parts remaining if anyone's interested:

Front suspension struts
Rear suspension and axle
Bonnet latch (the bit that goes over the heater motor)
Two Audi TT leather seats
Windscreen and rubber

Anything left will be on the Bay once I'm back from my holidays: I'm driving round Norway in the Coupe starting Saturday.

Neil

[Rolf]

Hi Neil,
I'm interested inthefront struts, if they contain the Quantum red springs.
Probably need Quantum post of some sort, or may be pickup during August holidays.
Will you pm me?
Thnx
Rolf

[mike1...@hotmail.com]

Hi Niel,

I am prepaired to offer £100 for hardtop if availiable

Regards 

Mike