Cost of respray

[Bob Craig]

I have been getting some quotes for a respray on my 2+2. I visited a
few places but to be honest, I wouldn't trust some of them with
painting an airfix model. I found a good paintshop, that had an oven
and looked like a quality outfit. I told the guy the car was a kit car
similar in size to a MX5 and straight away he asked me if it was a
Quantum. This was a good sign and it turns out that he has painted a
few kit cars and knows the scene quite well. I had a look at a Chesil
Speedster (the owner stays a few streets away from me) and he has done
a cracking job. He estimated £1200 + vat or £400 if I did all the prep
work and supplied the paint. Is this a good deal? He offerred to come
to the house for a look at it and give me advice on the areas that
need work, how to deal with different bits and pieces etc.

I remember years ago guys doing jobs on the side for some beer money
but i have been out of the motor trade for quite a few years, so don't
know if this still happens.

What are your experiences and how have you approached this task.

Cheers
Bob Craig Q267

[susanandmartinscott]

First of all I'd question the use of the oven! Some say it's ok, but I've
heard some horror stories, so would just prefer an air dry. Cost looks about
right from what I've heard (you can't get an all in good job for £250,
despite what some would say), but can you get the paint yourself - 2 pack
certainly not unless you are in the trade, cellulose possibly not either
since Jan 1st?

[Tony Pottrell]

I've a local scrappy who repairs insurance write offs and sells them on
who's quoted me £400 to do the 2+2 so I'd say that was about right,
especially if he's no stranger to the car :)

I've not given him the car yet, but I've seen his work on replaced
panels and I've not yet successfully guessed which panel he's replaced :)

[Bob Craig]

I buy paint for forklift trucks at my work, so I'm pretty sure I could
get various types. We buy high gloss enamel for £4.23/Ltr and also a
silver metallic for the same price (for use with a roller - not
spraying). The company supply many of the local body shops, so they
should be able to supply the Rover nightfire pearlescent I would need,
although I could change the colour to my preferred Yellow I suppose.
What horror stories - you have me worried now.

Cheers
Bob Craig Q267

On 27 Jan, 21:01, "susanandmartinscott"

> Bob Craig Q267- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

[Bob Craig]

Is he doing the prep work or are you doing it yourself?

[Jim Hearne]

Since first Jan this year ?
I got cellulose not problem last year.

Jim

[Michael...@aol.com]

In a message dated 27/01/2007 23:02:12 GMT Standard Time, bobbyc...@tiscali.co.uk writes:

although I could change the colour to my preferred Yellow

Maybe it shows more on yellow or maybe the bugs prefer yellow too, either way it seems to me that yellow cars carry more than their share of squashed flying things. M.

[Jim Hearne]

If yours aren't falling off i suggest you don't try to remove them.
It's just taken me four hours, a windscreen removal, and several long
knives made from hacksaw blades to get the other rear window out of my
saloon.
As i had the other rear side window and the rear window already out i
thought it would make doing the headlining easier.
I'm having second thoughts about taking the windscreen out as well now,
though it theory it should be easier as it's got a rubber and i can use
the onded windscreen removal tool from inside and outside.

Jim

>

[susanandmartinscott]

Apparently too high a temp can cause the GRP to distort - I don't know if
it's true or urban myth, but I'd prefer to not try it. I can only think of 2
reasons for drying in oven - jsut trying to get job done quicker, and the
risk of contamination. The high gloss enamel for trucks may be polyurethane
alkyd enamel (coachpaint), IMHO a good paint but liable to deterioration if
not varnished. You also cannot paint cellulose over enamel (although enamel
over cellulose is ok)

[susanandmartinscott]

An article in Classic Car Weekly in Dec said cellulose was being outlawed
from 1st Jan 2007, and was championing an action to make it available to
classic car amateurs - I don't know what happened. This is of course further
emmission control!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hearne" <j...@quantums.info>
To: <quantu...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Cost of respray

[Tony Pottrell]

Him doing it, that was the price to me though. Next time I see him I
can ask how much he would want to do a complete car? He's based in Bristol

T

[Graham Forrest]

Ideally fiberglass must be heated over 60 deg C for 30 mins, exceed the
temperature and unsupported fiberglass will start to distort. A 2 pack
polyurethane will air dry but a temp of say 40 deg C will cut down curing
time dramatically. Air dying is OK but will significantly increase the risk
of dirt falling onto the paint film

-----Original Message-----
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com [mailto:quantu...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tony Pottrell
Sent: 28 January 2007 10:27
To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Cost of respray

[Andy Haworth]

Thanks for bringing this up Bob, as it's something I'm looking at for this
summer.

Vince told me of a place where his had been done and for the age of the
paint job when I last saw it was pretty impressive. Shame I forgot where he
said. If he's picking up the messages I'm sure he could let us know where
and an idea of prices

Thanks
Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com [mailto:quantu...@googlegroups.com]

On Behalf Of Bob Craig
Sent: 27 January 2007 16:15
To: Quantum Owners Group
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Cost of respray

Cheers
Bob Craig Q267

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[Michael...@aol.com]

I spent quite a while looking for regulations on cellulose paint without success and even the dangerous substances regulations of 2006 do not seem to mention it, Interestingly the dangerous substances regs do show the circumstances in which leaded paint can be used.

 

On the website of Leonard Brookes, an automotive paint specialist, it points out that major manufacturers are phasing out cellulose paints, but they themselves have large stocks to meet the needs of the vehicle restoration market.

 

Leonard Brookes have a paragraph or two about the new generation of water based paints for automotive use which includes notes on their drying times.

 

Michael

[Simon Musgrove-Wethey]

Re Bob Craig Q267 Respray quote
Firstly I would consider the following points;

1.If you strip the vehicle down ready for painting how will you then get the
car to the paint shop.
2. Once stripped, prepared and then transported to the paint shop, the
sprayer will then have to do some more preparation to get rid of all the
crud just collected on the journey from your home to the paint shop.
3. Do you have the equipment and skills to prepare the vehicle. Who knows
what lurks below your paint.
4. If the car is returned with a poor finish then the sprayer can blame you
for poor preparation.
5. There are NO problems with using an oven. If things do go wrong then it's
down to the operator and not the oven.
6. Cellulose is great for small/local repairs but due to stringent health
and safety rules will only be available to those companies that specialise
in restorations. 2K is much more durable when bombarded by all the chemicals
picked up when driving, it's very flexible which helps with plastic panels
and gives a very good finish.

There is no cheap option. You can try and skimp here and there but it will
only show in the end. Laying down some top paint is the easy part. It's all
about preparation and if you get that wrong then nothing the painter does
will fix it. If the vehicle needs new paint, then save up and pay for a
proper job. It's considerably cheaper in both time and money.

Simon Musgrove-Wethey

[MJO...@denso-midlands.co.uk]

Hi
Of all the points raised by Simon, I think point 4 is the most pertinent, however using the local budget spray shop I do, I get a better job when prepping by hand than they do in a fraction of the time with their tools.  As was also said though, you get what you pay for.  More labour, more cost.
On respray points, my Gel coat is shot, and a respray is imminent.  If I understand correctly a primer specific to plastics should be used (mine is gel coat, and not faded paint) can anybody confirm, are there any brands or specifications anybody can recommend?  
Indecently last time I seriously looked about for a respray, I was quoted from 800 up to 1500. That was for the garage to do the whole job, so yes the quote sounds along the same lines.
Cheers
Mark

"Simon Musgrove-Wethey" <si...@310k.co.uk> Sent by: quantu...@googlegroups.com 29/01/2007 09:55 Please respond to quantumowners

To:        <quantu...@googlegroups.com>         cc:

Subject:        [Quantum Owners] Re: Cost of respray

[Jim Hearne]

>On respray points, my Gel coat is shot, and a respray is imminent.  If I understand correctly a primer specific to plastics should be used (mine is gel coat, and not faded paint) can anybody confirm, are there any >brands or specifications anybody can recommend?  

I was told the opposite, and that flatted gelcoat was fine for a base for normal primer.
Certainly on my 2+2 there have been no problems with the primer not sticking to the gelcoat, indeed it sticks to the gel better than the top coat sticks to the primer.
So stone chips always reveal the white primer instead of the green gel coat (which is typical).

Jim

[susanandmartinscott]

When I was told I had to use paints with plasticisers for a kit years ago, I was told it was because the 'body would flex' and crack the paint because it was made out of GRP. I queried this on the basis that a thin steel body panel would probably flex the same (or maybe more). Playing safe I went for it (or was at least told it was added to the paint) and paid the extra price. When I wanted to paint the black shiny bumpers on my Dutton, someone who owned a car spare shop locally told me 'don't bother with all that, it's a load of hype - just put red oxide primer on, then the top coat. As he seamed to be very confident of this, all I did was rub them down with wet/dry, degrease, and then sprayed aerosol red oxide on, followed by satin aerosol. The paint never fell of until I sold the car some 18mths later!

----- Original Message -----

From: Jim Hearne

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 11:11 AM

Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Cost of respray

[MJO...@denso-midlands.co.uk]

Yes, using normal primer seems to be the opinion of the body shop I use as well.  I went down dinner time to ask.  
It's a pity you can't get clear primer, stone chips would reveal the original gel colour then! (assuming the top coat is the same as the original car).
Mark

Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info> Sent by: quantu...@googlegroups.com 29/01/2007 11:11 Please respond to quantumowners

To:        quantu...@googlegroups.com         cc:

Subject:        [Quantum Owners] Re: Cost of respray

[Jim Hearne]

In some paint ranges you can get coloured primer.

Jim

[Tony Pottrell]

Has anyone asked Quantum what system they use?

[Michael...@aol.com]

In a message dated 29/01/2007 10:27:13 GMT Standard Time, MJO...@denso-midlands.co.uk writes:

 If I understand correctly a primer specific to plastics should be used (mine is gel coat, and not faded paint) can anybody confirm, are there any brands or specifications anybody can recommend?  

Check with a marine chandler. One of the leading brands was International but I think they may have been taken over by another company so the brand name might have been changed.

 

Michael

[Michael...@aol.com]

In a message dated 29/01/2007 14:31:10 GMT Standard Time, MJO...@denso-midlands.co.uk writes:

It's a pity you can't get clear primer

You can if you buy the grp primer from International. Michael

[Bob Craig]

Simon,
You sound as if you are speaking (or writing in this case) from
experience. Has this happened to you.

In fairness to the body shop, the guy pointed out all of your points
regarding preparation. The car is pretty much stripped at the moment.
I could put a seat in it and drive to the bodyshop, which is only 1.3
miles from my house. Things like the lights etc would have to be
removed but he would do that. He said if he was preparing it, he would
spend around 40 hours and would take it back to the gel coat before
repainting. If I was preparing it, he would have a look at it and give
me advice but suggested starting off with around 800 grit wet and dry.
He would advise me on the areas that needed particular attention and
would not agree to carry on until he was satisfied that I had done a
good job. My biggest problem (as is usually the case), is that my wife
is holding me to a strict budget that we agreed last year and it
doesn't stretch to the full job, so my options are:

1) Do the prep myself
2) Tidy up the paintwork at home
3) Wait until next winter and renegotiate the budget.

Cheers
Robert

[Bob Craig]

Good point. Why did no one else think of that?

> >> Mark- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

[vince.o]

Andy apologies for the delay - forgot the name myself and they are not listed in the yellow pages would you believe ! vince       Is this your business? Login or Register to update your business details.

Grenville Morley & Sons Ltd    User reviews (0) 01159459757 Main Road  Watnall,  Nottingham,  Nottinghamshire, NG16 1HA Try other: Body Repairs in Nottingham Write a review View on map

----- Original Message -----

From: Andy Haworth

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:30 PM

Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Cost of respray

[MattWilson(Q2-412)]

Coincidently enough.....
In the latest copy of the US Kitcar Magazine (which dropped through my
door yesterday), there are two large articles (step-by-step photo
guides), one on preparing GRP/gel-coat for spraying, and one on
spraying the same. Nothing ground-breaking said, but a really good
basis for how it's best done. (most people here probably won't care
about the spraying part as that's really best left to the
professionals if you want it to stay stuck on).
I couldn't possibly violate copyright law etc and scan or photo-copy
it, Obviously(!), but i could always lend it to someone if they were
interested.

MattW

[MJO...@denso-midlands.co.uk]

Hi Matt
Did it say anything about special primers, or oven temperatures, or does it agree with the general consensus that a normal primer is O.K.?
Should the mag happen to fall on to a scanner whilst you are scanning in something else, I would be very interested in what they have to say.
Cheers
mjo...@denso-midlands.co.uk

"MattWilson(Q2-412)" <wilso...@virgin.net> Sent by: quantu...@googlegroups.com 02/02/2007 09:16 Please respond to quantumowners

To:        "Quantum Owners Group" <quantu...@googlegroups.com>         cc:

Subject:        [Quantum Owners] Re: Cost of respray

[Simon Musgrove-Wethey]

Hi Matt, which US magazine was this?

Matt wrote "In the latest copy of the US Kitcar Magazine (which dropped
through my door yesterday),

Also came across this drill sharpening tool. I have a drill sharpener bought
from my local DIY store which is powered by an electric drill, however this
looks like the real thing. The website has some good videos demonstrating
the tool. http://www.drilldr.com/index.php

Simon Musgrove-Wethey

[MattWilson(Q2-412)]

was these guys:
http://www.kitcarmag.com/

got a few issues to see what it was like. Often had interesting
technical guides on building 'stuff' using GRP, moulding, painting etc
and latest relevant innovations and products (like universal electric
power steering systems!). So much better for the technical stuff than
the UK mags and the generic articles are great, but too american for
most, as they only really deal with US V8 engines, cobras, GT40s, LHD
and american suspension systems etc.

[MattWilson(Q2-412)]

Off top of my head, there was discussion of ensuring that all traces
of waxing was sanded right back from the gelcoat surface, what grades
and types of sanders and papers to use and sanding methods for
different areas of the body....errrr...lots more too. Don't think
there was anything on ovens as he selected a cellulose (?) paint for
the finish he wanted. Said about primers but not sure what.
Will have a look and get back to you (after the W.E. afraid).
Matt

[MJO...@denso-midlands.co.uk]

Hi Matt

After the weekend is fine. Cheers for that.

Mark

"MattWilson(Q2-412)" <wilso...@virgin.net> Sent by: quantu...@googlegroups.com

02/02/2007 12:14

Please respond to quantumowners

To:        "Quantum Owners Group" <quantu...@googlegroups.com>         cc:                 Subject:        [Quantum Owners] Re: Cost of respray