dojo.py
michal chalupczak
Grzegorz Nosek
> -- PL -- for EN see below --
> czymďż˝ takim?
Praktyka pokazuje �e w wi�kszym gronie (rz�du kilkudziesi�ciu+ os�b na
konferencji) takie sesje haczenia na �ywo raczej �rednio wypadaj�, ale
spr�bowa� mo�na.
Kto wymy�la zadanie do wykonania?
BTW, co robi reszta (tak realnie) jak dw�ch bohater�w siedzi i koduje?
Dw�ch go�ci przed laptopem to ma�o porywaj�cy widok.
</nadworny-pesymista>
BTW2, skoro ju� pisz�: te� macie takie wra�enie �e aspekt integracyjny
Pykonika le�y na ryju? Na ostatnim (i poprzednim) spotkaniu po
zako�czeniu prezentacji w zasadzie w ci�gu 5 minut nikogo nie by�o. Ja
wiem �e to �rodek tygodnia itp., ale np. wczoraj by� Krakspot, gdzie
prezentacje s� (IMHO) du�o s�absze a impreza trwa du�o d�u�ej. Chocia�
fakt �e tak od trzeciej prezentacji to chyba nikt nie zwraca� na nie uwagi.
> -- EN --
> Simple question: Are you interested?
Live hacking sessions with a larger crowd (several dozen people at a
conference) tend to end up pretty boring but we might give it a try.
Who gets to invent the task to do?
BTW, what do all the others really do when the two superheroes are out
there hacking? Watching two guys at a laptop is hardly fascinating.
</the-official-pessimist>
BTW2: do you guys agree that the social aspect of Pykonik falls flat on
its face? At the last meeting (and the one before) five minutes after
the last talk just about everybody was gone. I know, it's right in the
middle of the week etc., but there was Krakspot yesterday, where the
talks are (IMHO) much poorer but still the party lasts much later.
Though indeed, starting from about the third talk I think nobody cared
about them any more.
{Pozdrawiam,Best regards},
Grzegorz Nosek
Łukasz Proszek
> W dniu 27.10.2011 22:30, michal chalupczak pisze:
>> -- PL -- for EN see below --
>> Pytanie jest proste: Jeste� zainteresowana/zainteresowany udzia�em w
>> czymďż˝ takim?
>
> Praktyka pokazuje �e w wi�kszym gronie (rz�du kilkudziesi�ciu+ os�b na
> konferencji) takie sesje haczenia na �ywo raczej �rednio wypadaj�, ale
> spr�bowa� mo�na.
>
> Kto wymy�la zadanie do wykonania?
>
> BTW, co robi reszta (tak realnie) jak dw�ch bohater�w siedzi i koduje?
> Dw�ch go�ci przed laptopem to ma�o porywaj�cy widok.
> </nadworny-pesymista>
Przed jednym laptopem? Mo�e by� ciekawe:P
>
> BTW2, skoro ju� pisz�: te� macie takie wra�enie �e aspekt integracyjny
> Pykonika le�y na ryju? Na ostatnim (i poprzednim) spotkaniu po
> zako�czeniu prezentacji w zasadzie w ci�gu 5 minut nikogo nie by�o. Ja
> wiem �e to �rodek tygodnia itp., ale np. wczoraj by� Krakspot, gdzie
> prezentacje s� (IMHO) du�o s�absze a impreza trwa du�o d�u�ej. Chocia�
> fakt �e tak od trzeciej prezentacji to chyba nikt nie zwraca� na nie
> uwagi.
Integracja fajny pomys�... tylko lokal na tak� ilo�� os�b to obsysa�
strasznie. Ja np. nie doczeka�em ko�ca prelekcji.
>> -- EN --
>> Simple question: Are you interested?
>
> Live hacking sessions with a larger crowd (several dozen people at a
> conference) tend to end up pretty boring but we might give it a try.
We can alway divide into smaller groups.
>
> Who gets to invent the task to do?
>
> BTW, what do all the others really do when the two superheroes are out
> there hacking? Watching two guys at a laptop is hardly fascinating.
> </the-official-pessimist>
Two of them at one laptop? might be interesting :P
>
> BTW2: do you guys agree that the social aspect of Pykonik falls flat
> on its face? At the last meeting (and the one before) five minutes
> after the last talk just about everybody was gone. I know, it's right
> in the middle of the week etc., but there was Krakspot yesterday,
> where the talks are (IMHO) much poorer but still the party lasts much
> later. Though indeed, starting from about the third talk I think
> nobody cared about them any more.
Yeah. Getting to know each-other and interact socially is a good idea,
but last time the pub sucked. There was too many people to fit in that
tiny room. I personally didn't last 'till the end of the second talk.
(And stood in the hallway during the first)
> {Pozdrawiam,Best regards},
> Grzegorz Nosek
Best
�JP
Grzegorz Nosek
> Zawsze mo�na podzieli� si� na podgrupy.
I zmieniaďż˝ siďż˝ przy projektorze? :)
> Przed jednym laptopem? Mo�e by� ciekawe:P
Jak rozumiem z opisu, koduje driver, copilot mu podpowiada a reszta
ogl�da na projektorze i kibicuje.
> Integracja fajny pomys�... tylko lokal na tak� ilo�� os�b to obsysa�
> strasznie. Ja np. nie doczeka�em ko�ca prelekcji.
Minusem by�o jak dla mnie to, �e jak kto� si� dosta� do sali z
prezentacj� to niespecjalnie m�g� wyj�� a� do ko�ca (a kto� z zewn�trz
nie mia� szansy wej��).
>>> -- EN --
> We can alway divide into smaller groups.
And take turns at the beamer?
> Two of them at one laptop? might be interesting :P
AIUI, the driver is coding, the copilot gives him tips and the crowd
watches the thing on the beamer and cheers.
> Yeah. Getting to know each-other and interact socially is a good idea,
> but last time the pub sucked. There was too many people to fit in that
> tiny room. I personally didn't last 'till the end of the second talk.
> (And stood in the hallway during the first)
One thing that sucked for me was that people inside were basically stuck
for the whole time of the talks and people outside the room were stuck
outside.
G.
michal chalupczak
michał
Grzegorz Nosek
> -- PL --
> Rzeczywi�cie kilkadziesi�t os�b jest czym� takim zainteresowana? Na
> razie sďż˝ trzy.
Na poprzednim Pykoniku by�o kilkadziesi�t os�b a post na li�cie bodaj�e
jeden.
> My�l� �e Coding Dojo mo�e si� sprawdzi� dla mniej wi�cej kilkunastu
> os�b. Nie s�dz� �eby wersja z kodowaniem w parach sprawdzi�a si� przy
> sze��dziesi�ciu uczestnikach.
Ano.
> Chcia�em wiedzie� ile os�b by realnie chcia�o wzi�� w tym udzia�. Tutaj
> ilo�� miejsca jest du�o wa�niejsza ni� przy prezentacjach.
Jak to ma wygl�da�? Jedna para koduje czy wszyscy? To decyduje o tym,
jaki rodzaj miejsca by siďż˝ przydaďż˝.
> -- EN --
> Are there really so many people interested in Coding Dojo?
The last meeting had about sixty people and IIRC a single post on this list.
> It seems that this kind of event fits best for less than 20 people. For
> more than that maybe PreparedKata will suit better.
Yup.
> All i wanted is to know how many people would be really interested in
> Coding Dojo. We definitely need more space than when having presentations.
Is there a single pair coding or does everybody code at the same time?
That determines the kind of site we'd need.
G.
Lennart Regebro
> BTW2: do you guys agree that the social aspect of Pykonik falls flat on its
> face? At the last meeting (and the one before) five minutes after the last
> talk just about everybody was gone. I know, it's right in the middle of the
> week etc., but there was Krakspot yesterday, where the talks are (IMHO) much
> poorer but still the party lasts much later. Though indeed, starting from
> about the third talk I think nobody cared about them any more.
It seems from the comments here that the problem this time was the
location. Also a problem was that the bar didn't open before, so there
was no hanging out before the talks, but that was bad luck. Before we
have had the problems of too many talks, so they drag out too long (at
least for me). Perhaps if we can be at Klub Pauza and only have two
talks there is time over to hang out?
We also discussed having monthly meetings without talks, just to
socialize and talk about Python. I don't know if people are still
interested in that?
//Lennart
Grzegorz Nosek
> It seems from the comments here that the problem this time was the
> location. Also a problem was that the bar didn't open before, so there
> was no hanging out before the talks, but that was bad luck. Before we
> have had the problems of too many talks, so they drag out too long (at
> least for me). Perhaps if we can be at Klub Pauza and only have two
> talks there is time over to hang out?
One format we might give a try could be a single talk plus some time for
lightning talks (which could actually be a trigger for later conversations).
People tend to be scared of presenting a lightning talk but that can be
overcome. At PHPcon last weekend I convinced the organizers to make a
lightning talk session -- they had to explain the idea to the PHP guys
who seemed reluctant at first but I got the ball rolling with my
tireless megiforge.pl pitch and there were actually quite a few speakers
even though it was almost 10pm.
People do have interesting things to say but they're afraid of giving
big presentations (you *do* have to be an expert on something to give an
interesting one-hour-long talk). 5-10 minute lightning talks might just
be the ticket, especially if they were regularly scheduled ("I know,
I'll speak about $FOO next month"). People might convince themselves to
prepare a few sentences about their favourite topic (or just "fuck it,
we'll do it live!").
> We also discussed having monthly meetings without talks, just to
> socialize and talk about Python. I don't know if people are still
> interested in that?
+1 from me.
G.
michal chalupczak
michał
Grzegorz Nosek
> Guys!
>
> Nice ideas (that socializing meeting, lightning talks etc.) but all I
> wanted is to know if there is anyone interested in Coding Dojo.
Count me in, sorry for hijacking the thread ;)
G.
Krzysztof Dorosz
Krzysztof Dorosz
On Friday, October 28, 2011 2:05:00 PM UTC+2, Grzegorz Nosek wrote:
W dniu 28.10.2011 13:46, Lennart Regebro pisze:
. Before we
> have had the problems of too many talks, so they drag out too long (at
> least for me). Perhaps if we can be at Klub Pauza and only have two
> talks there is time over to hang out?
[...]
Grzegorz Nosek
> Grzegorz,
>
> you didn't count a number of folks that had left the party in the
> beginning because of lack of space.
Possibly (I was stuck in the talk room mostly unable to leave even to
get a drink).
> If there was enough place, I would definitely stay on presentations and
> after party.
My point is there was _no_ after party to speak of (a few guys had a
beer and talked about haskell). The lightning talk (after the two
planned talks) ended and everybody dashed out to the exit.
By that time I expect everybody in the next room unable to watch the
talks had already been long gone.
G.
michal chalupczak
michał
Grzegorz Nosek
> Lennart, I also think that the best solution is to avoid having too many
> presentation lasting too long. Grzegorz proposed 5-10 min talks, but
> this is maybe a little too short. Anyway look at TED events - they
What I was proposing were lightning talks -- mostly spontaneous and
unplanned. They differ from sitting at a table with a beer only in that
you are standing, don't have a table and you get to hold a microphone
instead of a beer (slides are a bonus rather than a requirement).
They are not a replacement for full-blown talks.
> rarely last more than 15 min. That proves everything interesting what
> you possibly can say about a single topic can be said in 15 min. This
That's a bit extreme but it *is* hard to talk about something for an
hour and still make sense.
> also encourage you to focus on the main problem, skipping all that
> boring parts like agenda (sic!), theoretical introduction (we are a
> group of geeks, I believe we've all got a theoretical background on many
> topics related to python). Even if a speech seems to be a very specific,
> you can always ask a question and notice the speaker what need to be
> explained more detailed.
+1. Get to the point, we know what MVC is.
G.
Sebastian Pawlus
rest of the organization matters to next meeting or to thread about
next meeting.
Going back to main topic.
I'm +1 for dojo idea I never been at any but first heard of at
EuroPython and it sounded there as Idea worth trying. Video about it
http://ep2011.europython.eu/conference/talks/the-london-python-code-dojo-an-education-in-education
Wiktor Kołodziej
A moze cos bardziej systemowego, Grzesiek, jakies pomysly?:>
W.
Grzegorz Nosek
> Ja bym sprobowal tego dojo, czemu nie. Jakies propozycje tematow?
> Standardowy saper, kolko i krzyzyk?
IMNSHO to jest nudne do wyrzygania i już było rozwiązywane na setki
sposobów. Nie wiem czemu zawsze jako przykład zastosowania TDD są
używane algorytmy, które wszyscy znają (albo są w stanie wyguglać) a TDD
polega na ich wynalezieniu od nowa.
> A moze cos bardziej systemowego, Grzesiek, jakies pomysly?:>
Jakiś banalny serwer (albo proxy) SMTP (albo POP3) moglibyśmy napisać.
SMTP będzie fajne do testowania narzędziem swaks.
Coś z pygame? Tylko ktoś wcześniej musiałby sprite'y przygotować bo
rysowanie w formie dojo chyba by się średnio sprawdziło.
Albo tool do rysowania wykresów z jakiegoś datasetu za pomocą
pythonowego żółwia ;)
G.
michal chalupczak
Sebastian Pawlus
również myślę, że rozwiązywanie prostych problemów jest lepszym
wyborem. Pozwoli to na to aby skupić się na aspektach samego języka a
nie na problemie, który należy rozwiązać. Przy takim podejściu można
dość szybko rozwiązać problem ocenić rozwiązanie i przejść dalej.
Sugestie Grześka mogą być zbyt wymagające ze względu na potrzebę
znajomości samej domeny problemu, języka oraz bibliotek aby efektywnie
ten problem rozwiązać.
seba
ps. sprawy_organizacyjne.append(u'język listy')
Grzegorz Nosek
> Zak�adaj�c, i� takie Python dojo ma pom�c w nauce samego j�zyka. Ja
> r�wnie� my�l�, �e rozwi�zywanie prostych problem�w jest lepszym
> wyborem. Pozwoli to na to aby skupi� si� na aspektach samego j�zyka a
> nie na problemie, kt�ry nale�y rozwi�za�. Przy takim podej�ciu mo�na
> do�� szybko rozwi�za� problem oceni� rozwi�zanie i przej�� dalej.
> Sugestie Grze�ka mog� by� zbyt wymagaj�ce ze wzgl�du na potrzeb�
> znajomo�ci samej domeny problemu, j�zyka oraz bibliotek aby efektywnie
> ten problem rozwi�za�.
>
> seba
> ps. sprawy_organizacyjne.append(u'j�zyk listy')
OK, so I'll just write in English, no point in repeating myself (r�ka do
g�ry, kto chce �ebym pisa� te� po polsku).
http://programthis.net/ has a few coding challenges worth looking at.
But taking a step back, who is the code dojo targeted at?
I-wanna-learn-Python newbies? Pros wanting to play and try something new?
Taking another step back, who is attending Pykonik meetings? Who do you
(we) want to attend?
G.
(I actually forgot to click Send yesterday evening, so here it goes now).
michal chalupczak
W dniu 31.10.2011 18:23, Sebastian Pawlus pisze:
OK, so I'll just write in English, no point in repeating myself (ręka do góry, kto chce żebym pisał też po polsku).ps. sprawy_organizacyjne.append(u'język listy')