Re: [Puppet Users] Re: Installing 0.24.8 as gem (or deb?) on Debian
Nigel Kersten
It doesn't quite seem ideal for so many people to be building their own...
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Ryan Steele <Ryan.G...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mar 27, 9:33 am, Kyle Cordes <k...@kylecordes.com> wrote:
>> Kyle Cordes wrote:
>> >> Apply the .diff
>> Ryan Steele wrote:
>> > I didn't have to download any diffs. Here's what I did:
>> > 2. Grab the debian directory for 0.24.7 from git (git clone
>> > git://git.debian.org/git/pkg-puppet/puppet.git) and put it in the 0.24.7
>> > source tree.
>>
>> Ah. That diff I applied, did the same as this.
>>
>> > 4. run 'uupdate -u puppet-0.24.8.tgz', and then cd into the newly
>> > created 0.24.8 source tree
>>
>> Every time I touch this stuff I learn something new. For example, just
>> this second I learned (from your message) of the existence of "uupdate".
>> I'll give it a try next time I need to update a Debian package to a
>> newer upstream version.
>
> Yeah, it's handy for sure. Although, it doesn't work when there are
> sufficiently complex diff's. Luckily, it's always worked for Puppet
> on my end. The Debian New Maintainers' Guide has a blurb about it:
> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-update.en.html
>
> Glad to have imparted the knowledge unto others that was once imparted
> unto me. :)
> >
>
--
Nigel Kersten
nig...@google.com
System Administrator
Google, Inc.
Ryan Steele
> When can we expect the 0.24.8 debs to be out?
Depends on your distribution and the release you're running. If you
need it sooner than your distribution is going to work it in to your
current release, your options are either to backport it or create your
own. With Debian, the tradeoff for rock solid stability is a slower
release cycle and thus older packages. Even with Ubuntu, you still have
a bit of a delay, and if you want more bleeding edge .debs, your options
are either a PPA, backporting, or creating your own.
> It doesn't quite seem ideal for so many people to be building their own...
If you always want to run bleeding edge stuff on Debian or Ubuntu, your
choices are that, backporting, or PPA's, even if you're using the most
experimental repositories. It's just the way of the world. If that's
not something you're ready to deal with, you can do something crazy like
run Gentoo. :)
Kyle Cordes
> a bit of a delay, and if you want more bleeding edge .debs, your options
> are either a PPA, backporting, or creating your own.
There is a better option, available for some projects: have either the
project itself, or some kind soul who uses the same project and distro
as you do, quickly publish updated packages for each new version.
There's noone doing that yet for Puppet+Debian.
I'd do this my Puppet on Debian/Ubunty, but I consider myself barely
familiar enough with Debian packaging to make them for my own
consumption, it would be reckless to unleash them on others. Yet.
(Most ideally, the build process for the project itself spits out
packages for the most popular N distro and publishes them as part of
nightly builds or whatever, for those who want to list dangerously.)
--
Kyle Cordes
http://kylecordes.com
Ryan Steele
I'm happy to do this for Ubuntu, if I have Luke's blessing. I'll talk
to my employer and see if they're willing to host a PPA that can be
linked to from the Puppet wiki.
Russ Allbery
> Depends on your distribution and the release you're running. If you
> need it sooner than your distribution is going to work it in to your
> current release, your options are either to backport it or create your
> own. With Debian, the tradeoff for rock solid stability is a slower
> release cycle and thus older packages.
Er, given that you can just install the Debian Puppet packages from
unstable, this doesn't make any sense to me. There's no release delay in
getting new Puppet packages into Debian, just someone having the time to
do the work.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@stanford.edu) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Russ Allbery
> I'm happy to do this for Ubuntu, if I have Luke's blessing. I'll talk
> to my employer and see if they're willing to host a PPA that can be
> linked to from the Puppet wiki.
Please join the pkg-puppet group and help them prepare the packages rather
than doing this. Otherwise, you're just duplicating effort.
Nigel Kersten
>
> Nigel Kersten wrote:
>> When can we expect the 0.24.8 debs to be out?
>
> Depends on your distribution and the release you're running. If you
> need it sooner than your distribution is going to work it in to your
> current release, your options are either to backport it or create your
> own. With Debian, the tradeoff for rock solid stability is a slower
> release cycle and thus older packages. Even with Ubuntu, you still have
> a bit of a delay, and if you want more bleeding edge .debs, your options
> are either a PPA, backporting, or creating your own.
Yeah. I didn't mean that to be interpreted as "when will it hit stable
'foo'" but more, when will the first debs hit experimental so we can
backport/PPA/etc.
I'd personally like to see there be a focus on getting the most recent
Puppet packages into the Debian/Ubuntu backport repositories.
>
>
>> It doesn't quite seem ideal for so many people to be building their own...
>
> If you always want to run bleeding edge stuff on Debian or Ubuntu, your
> choices are that, backporting, or PPA's, even if you're using the most
> experimental repositories. It's just the way of the world. If that's
> not something you're ready to deal with, you can do something crazy like
> run Gentoo. :)
Sure, but there's no reason why we all have to backport manually when
we have distro specific backport repositories already.... :)
If there's a need for more eyes/help on the Debian/Ubuntu side, we
already have one team member at Google who is a Debian maintainer and
we'd like to get all of our Puppet requirements into the distro
backports, whether we do that work or others do, it just seems like
the right way to go.
Kyle Cordes
> I'd personally like to see there be a focus on getting the most recent
> Puppet packages into the Debian/Ubuntu backport repositories.
I think we'd all (here) like that.
Sadly, I've concluded from various past experiences that, on average,
only the most popular packages are prone to prompt updates for new
upstream versions. Backports to not-the-current-distro are even more
rare, for various good reasons.
Therefore, when adopting something less widely used, especially if I
need the same (current) package version for various distro versions, I'm
resigned to having to either package it myself, or find someone "out
there" offering updated packages.
Example #1: Puppet
Example #2: udpcast
Udpcast is an extremely useful tool, both for cloning systems en masse,
and for totally unrelated uses like the one I describe here:
http://kylecordes.com/2008/10/21/multicast-your-db-backups-with-udpcast/
Yet the version in the very latest Ubuntu is from 2004:
http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/udpcast
(the same for Debian.)
Example #3: Zabbix
To get good results with Zabbix, it's necessary to have approximately
the same, approximately current versions, on all machines. The versions
in various current and past Ubuntu and Debian releases / backports are
not even close.
Nigel Kersten
>
> Nigel Kersten wrote:
>> I'd personally like to see there be a focus on getting the most recent
>> Puppet packages into the Debian/Ubuntu backport repositories.
>
> I think we'd all (here) like that.
>
> Sadly, I've concluded from various past experiences that, on average,
> only the most popular packages are prone to prompt updates for new
> upstream versions. Backports to not-the-current-distro are even more
> rare, for various good reasons.
be something we can get done and I'm keen to push on trying to get
that going.
>
> Therefore, when adopting something less widely used, especially if I
> need the same (current) package version for various distro versions, I'm
> resigned to having to either package it myself, or find someone "out
> there" offering updated packages.
loose requirements, I reckon we can do better than this as a community
:)
>
>
> Example #1: Puppet
>
>
> Example #2: udpcast
>
> Udpcast is an extremely useful tool, both for cloning systems en masse,
> and for totally unrelated uses like the one I describe here:
>
> http://kylecordes.com/2008/10/21/multicast-your-db-backups-with-udpcast/
>
> Yet the version in the very latest Ubuntu is from 2004:
>
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/udpcast
>
> (the same for Debian.)
>
>
> Example #3: Zabbix
>
> To get good results with Zabbix, it's necessary to have approximately
> the same, approximately current versions, on all machines. The versions
> in various current and past Ubuntu and Debian releases / backports are
> not even close.
>
>
> --
> Kyle Cordes
> http://kylecordes.com
>
> >
>
James Turnbull
On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 08:02:24 -0700, Nigel Kersten <nig...@google.com>
wrote:
> Backports of server products to the last LTS release in Ubuntu should
> be something we can get done and I'm keen to push on trying to get
> that going.
Nigel
Happy to help too.
James Turnbull
Nigel Kersten
First we need to get a 0.24.8 deb created :)
Is there anything I can do to help this process along? I'd just rather
not head down the path of building our own debs again...