1.2 Engine Brake failure in low RPM

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Nitin

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May 2, 2010, 1:53:20 PM5/2/10
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Team,

I am owning Punto Petrol Active since November 2009.

I was enjoyign this beauty but now facing brake failure issue on low
RPM while AC is ON.

Let me explane the condition, assume I am running in bumper to bumper
traffic. I need to just release clutch little bit in 1st gear. At the
same time I am keeping right feet on brake to avoid hit to next one.
This is pretty common situation in Jam when you can't release clutch
fully even in 1st Gear and using brake to avoid to hit next vehicle.

In this condition, brake padel gets very very hard in around 15
seconds, almost unusable. It takes around 7-10 seconds to become
normal.

I had words with 4 other owners of Petrol Active model and they are
als0 facing almost same issue.

I am about to talk to FIAT's top management but prior to that I want
feedback from more owners. Please test it and let me know.

It can be serious issue.

Thanking you in advance.

Nitin

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Mohit Kumar

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May 2, 2010, 2:17:59 PM5/2/10
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Nitin,
 
You have hit the nail on the head.  I also felt the same in the similar traffic conditions.  Initially, I felt that there was something wrong in my driving ;)  One of the issues which I sometimes face is getting jerks while pushing the car in the 1st gear.  Have you also experienced the same thing?
 
Unfortunately, I couldn't make it for the 1st service today.  I would be going tomorrow and would explain this thing to the service center guys.
 
Regards,
 
Mohit

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jumu

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May 2, 2010, 8:37:08 PM5/2/10
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Could be a brake booster problem.
Normally if you switch off the car and pump the brake pedal , the
pedal tends to come up and become hard.
The moment you fire up the engine it becomes normal . Is it that kind
of feeling you are getting ??

Abdul

Nikhil V.

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May 2, 2010, 10:44:42 AM5/2/10
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Wow....,some really serious issue. Didn't experience it in the mjd.mostly sticks to 2nd gear well in bumper traffic. Keep a hand on the hand-brake and a distance of 10 feet even though the guy behind will honk as hell.

Mohit Kumar

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May 2, 2010, 11:39:43 PM5/2/10
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Right Abdul.  Its the same kind of feel I get.  Looks as if the brakes isn't working at all.
 
Mohit

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Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 3, 2010, 12:20:33 AM5/3/10
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Brake booster !! Get it replaced FOC under warranty.

btw : what is the vacuum generation mechanism in the petrol Punto ? MJD has a vacuum pump. Do petrol punto's have one too ?

Just curious to know since only petrol cars are facing this problem.

Amogh

Nitin Kumar

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May 3, 2010, 2:08:58 AM5/3/10
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CHA0S

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May 3, 2010, 2:23:46 AM5/3/10
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Guys just 2 question..
does the hard brake pedal problem surface only in bumper to bumper
traffic???
&
on the highway when cruising, does the brake still feel hard?

Nitin

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May 3, 2010, 6:17:39 AM5/3/10
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@Mohit, yes I am facing same brake issue however jerks are related
to , how do you release clutch and use accelerator. Try to release
clutch smoothly.

@Jumu, Brake Booster has been changed already but still I am facing
issue. Yes brake gets harder like Engine is OFF , and this is
happening when engine and AC are ON but only on low RPM.

@Nikhil, I had tested 1.3 and 1.4 engines but could not replicated
this issue. So I can say you need not to worry about this, enjoy this
sexy beauty.

@CHAOS, I am facing this issue only is very slow speed. On highway ,
you may feel this hardness only if you padel the brake 5-6 times which
is not at all required.

Guys, Can you please forward your contact details and vehicle details
so that I can talk to Fiat's top management with full force and
support.

Nitin.


I have tested couple of test drive vahicle and those have almost same
issue.
> > punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-indi­a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
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>
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>
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CHA0S

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May 3, 2010, 6:42:02 AM5/3/10
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Based on your reply, I'm assuming the brake efficiency is relying on
the engine speed.

something like HPS (hydraulic power steering)
If you rev the engine a little bit, the steering becomes a bit
lighter..

in bumper to bumper traffic, stop and go situations and using the
clutch/brake,
i'm very much positive the rpm never goes beyond 1200 rpm, but it does
go down as low as 500 rpm..

when it goes to 600 - rpm, anti stall kicks in, so the hardness..

in my 1.4 i have never felt the brake go hard when the engine is
running..

But still i really cant pin point the problem before i drive/
experience the problem personally..
Before you go fully armed to FIAT, i advice you to visit the SC with
the problem..

BTW sometimes (in my initial ownership) there use to be a feeling in
bumper to bumper traffic, that when you would rev (in 1st gear) and
apply the brakes (stop and go and stop) the car would feel as if you
had almost lost control of the car going forward.. and hit the brakes
in panic.
i have found a way around it, so that never happens now..
If this is the problem then you dont need to worry, its the stupid ECU
nothing wrong with the car.. find a way around it.

Nitin

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May 3, 2010, 7:09:53 AM5/3/10
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You are absoultly right about anti stall kicks in. but it happens only
if you are in higer gear and dont accelerate the car. In that
situation, at certain speed anti stall kicks on. When anti stall is
on, you can get hardness even in 3 padesls but I dont think its a
problem.

Problem is in 1st gear with half clutch and light braking (I think
anti stall should not on in this situation).

Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 3, 2010, 7:42:17 AM5/3/10
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Aashay & Nitin,

As mentioned by Abdul (Jumu) earlier & by me, the problem most probably lies with brake booster. To be more specific, I think sufficient vacuum is not getting generated.

Nitin : the chances of  the 1.3 MJD having this problem are VERY rare. Reason being the 1.3 has a separate vacuum pump to generate vacuum. (it being a diesel). So its of no use talking to any diesel owners about this problem. Diesel owners will have this problem only if the vacuum pump fails.

Petrol engines do not have any separate vacuum generating device. The engine does this job of creating the vacuum.

@ Nitin : speak to the SC first. Get the brake booster and check valve checked. I think changing the brake booster assembly should do the job for you. Your brakes seem to be fine !!

As of now, don't think about going to Fiat higher ups. I think this issue can be resolved at the SC level (provided you get a competent service advisor)

Keep us updated

Amogh

CHA0S

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May 3, 2010, 7:53:37 AM5/3/10
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It is not important for the anti stall to kick in only in higher
gear's..
It can kick in any gear, even reverse. It is engine speed dependent
not gear or car speed.

Basically when the rpm falls below 1000 rpm, dangerously close to
stalling, the computer tells anti stall to kick in.
Try this, when stopped, dont touch the accelerator & shift to first,
and release the clutch in such a way that the rpm falls below 1000 to
500 rpm, and press the clutch back as soon as it happens, you will see
the rpm rise upto +1500 rpm. this will mean the anti stall kicking in,
telling you it works even in 1st gear.

As for the hardness, the clutch hardness wont be noticed, accelerator
pedal will never be hard, brake pedal will when the rpm falls below
1000 rpm.

BTW if you have not noticed it, after 20 km/h speed, if you shift to
5th, the punto is impossible to stall..!!

i still feel its the low engine speed making the brakes go hard.. but
still its a assumption..

Let the SC have a check first, before YOU go to FIAT directly..

CHA0S

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May 3, 2010, 8:42:24 AM5/3/10
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It may also be a defective booster at specific pressure..

Grandeur / Sandeep

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May 3, 2010, 9:03:56 AM5/3/10
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Missed the topic earlier, but something very interesting and
informative to me. Never experienced such situation but wanna try few
stuff as Aashay mentioned.

Soundra Pandian

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May 3, 2010, 10:42:35 AM5/3/10
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My 1.2 also have the same problem. I have reported to SC twice (Once during the free service camp and once during the first service) and nothing resolved. The problem fades away from my mind as I don't happen to drive in B2B traffic in recent times. I think it is the problem with all 1.2s.

jumu

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May 3, 2010, 10:45:48 AM5/3/10
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Nitin,

You should also check this out. On an open road, simulate the slow
speed drive and use the brake pedal as you would in bump- bump
traffic. Find out if there is any reduction in braking (maybe you are
only feeling it as the pedal has come up) . Maybe you dont need that
kind of pedal travel to achieve retardation. If the vehicle is
stopping well inspite of a pedal up hardness, then you dont need to
worry. Also go and test drive the 1.2 in a couple of showrooms like a
prospective customer. Also look out for such complaints in UK groups
where Punto has sold pretty well.

Abdul

Mohit Kumar

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May 3, 2010, 12:39:56 PM5/3/10
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Well, I checked on TeamBHP as well. 
 
 
People have similar issues with the Active model.  However, when I asked the technician at the service center to check for the brakes and brake booster.  He checked them and found nothing wrong.  Now, I put this thing across to the service manager of the service center.  Let me see, what does he suggest.
 
As I was coming back from the service center, a similar issue incurred and I had to literally use the handbrakes.  If there is an issue with the brake booster, why doesn't Fiat admit it.  Punto Active owners would be getting into trouble by hitting the vehicles infront in those conditions.
 
Mohit
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CHA0S

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May 3, 2010, 2:49:13 PM5/3/10
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I think i'll go for a test drive of the 1.2 active... and see for it
myself...
thinking tomorrow or the day after.. planning to visit, wasan
chembur...
anyone have idea if they have one available??

jumu

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May 3, 2010, 10:09:20 PM5/3/10
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Mohit,

Check the manufacturer of the braking system in your punto. It will be
engraved on the master cylinder which you see in the engine bay. It
could be Brakes India, KBX/Bosch or Bendix.

If it is Brakes India or KBX/Bosch, you could try speaking to their R&
D. They will be happy to hear about a problem with their braking
system and could take you more seriously and would want to lay their
hands on a problem first hand. Fiat on the other side would be
thinking about the loss they would incur on labour charges and
replacement
.
I am saying out of experience . When I had a Fiat Uno, there was some
vibrating noise issue in the front brake which Sundaram Motors could
not fix. They sent my car to Brakes India Ltd ., Chennai to their R&D
and got it solved.

Abdul

On May 3, 9:39 pm, Mohit Kumar <mohi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I checked on TeamBHP as well.
>
> http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/76770-punto-active-bra...
> > punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> > --
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Nitin Kumar

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May 4, 2010, 1:35:16 AM5/4/10
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Abdul,
 
I can simulate this problem easly on open road. Even I could guide two of my friends and they could simulate this.
 
Brake pedal gets very very hard and brake is of no use at all.
 
My worry is , my car is not the specific one, I tested around 5 Petrol Active and found this issue with all of them.
 
I want to inform FIAT so that they can do something. Even Vista Safire is having this issue. 
 
I alreadu banged 4 times, and my front bumper is having couple of black patches.
 
Guys, we need to show our unity otherwise FIAT will not look into this issue.
 
We can setup a conf call or we can set a meeting with FIAT offecials or you guys send mail to me (nku...@eds.com) so that I can attach\send your mail to FIAT.
 
Lets decide something.
 
Nitin 

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 8:15 PM, jumu <jum...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 4, 2010, 1:43:47 AM5/4/10
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I think the 1.2 Active owners on this group should raise this issue to Fiat.

Aashay, Andy : can you check with Ratan ? Aashay : you could try test driving Ratan's car. His is a 1.2 Active right ?

Amogh

Nitin Kumar

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May 4, 2010, 1:44:46 AM5/4/10
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Amogh,
 
Brake booster is already changed. I took my car to SC and they could not resolved this issue. I tested other Actives so I can say this issue is with 1.2 engine.
 
Nitin

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Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 4, 2010, 1:49:32 AM5/4/10
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Yes it definitely is an issue only with the 1.2

The 1.3 will not have this issue (unless the vacuum pump fails as I had mentioned in my email earlier)

btw : Nitin : did they see the condition of the check valve ? If the check valve fails changing the brake booster won't do anything.

Naveen Rao

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May 4, 2010, 1:51:41 AM5/4/10
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@Ratan: You own a 1.2 as well.. Did/Do you face this as well??

Cheers,
Naveen

CHA0S

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May 4, 2010, 2:02:38 AM5/4/10
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Nitin, where are you based??? are you from mumbai???

sambit kundu

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May 4, 2010, 2:04:04 AM5/4/10
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I have not faced this problem with my Active so far.
Sambit

Nitin Kumar

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May 4, 2010, 2:09:59 AM5/4/10
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No I am from Noida.

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:32 AM, CHA0S <aashay.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Nitin Kumar

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May 4, 2010, 2:16:01 AM5/4/10
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@ Sambit,
 
Switch on the engine. Switch on AC. Engaged first gear. Release half clutch slowly (Dont release fully). Keep press brake pedel slowly. Try to remain in this situation for around 25-30 secs.
 
Basically I am telling to simulate bumper to bumper traffic situation where you cant release clutch fully and need to apply brake little bit. Also you cant accelerate the car.
 
try to simulate this.
 
Nitin

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Ravi

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May 4, 2010, 2:16:30 AM5/4/10
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I believe you must send a detailed email to Fiat higher-ups.
Take the contact list in Files section.

Try to be as much explanatory email as possible. Give the various
links related to that, as well as link to this thread etc. This should
also help.



On May 4, 11:09 am, Nitin Kumar <nitinkumar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No I am from Noida.
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:32 AM, CHA0S <aashay.nicebut...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Nitin, where are you based??? are you from mumbai???
>
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sambit kundu

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May 4, 2010, 2:22:07 AM5/4/10
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Hi Nitin,

I stay in Kolkata and had been in bumper to bumper traffic situation many times. I have to cross a particular area called Ultadanga where I get stuck always in a bumper to bumper traffic that too in a slope, there also I did not face this problem. I have to check it again to come back on this.

Sambit

jumu

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May 4, 2010, 2:24:05 AM5/4/10
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Nitin,

If you say the same issue is there withs the Vista Safire too, then it
is the brake system vendor and it cant be with the engine. Since
volume of 1.2 is low it may be a single source OEM. This engine is
doing duty all over the world. It is when they adapt to new suppliers
that such problems might surface.
I guess it is time to ESCALATE with Fiat.

Yu could also try changing your driving style . be less bothered about
the issue, drive normally, provide space between yours and the front
vehicle, so that vaccum builds up If it responds positively to such
variations then they need to change the design as Indians expect /
drive differently and expect the vehicle to perform.. It may be just a
small job but volume of complaints will make fiat sit up and do
something.

Abdul

On May 4, 10:49 am, Amogh Chaphalkar <amogh.chaphal...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Yes it definitely is an issue only with the 1.2
>
> The 1.3 will not have this issue (unless the vacuum pump fails as I had
> mentioned in my email earlier)
>
> btw : Nitin : did they see the condition of the check valve ? If the check
> valve fails changing the brake booster won't do anything.
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Nitin Kumar <nitinkumar...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Amogh,
>
> > Brake booster is already changed. I took my car to SC and they could not
> > resolved this issue. I tested other Actives so I can say this issue is with
> > 1.2 engine.
>
> > Nitin
>
> > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Amogh Chaphalkar <
> > amogh.chaphal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Aashay & Nitin,
>
> >> As mentioned by Abdul (Jumu) earlier & by me, the problem most probably
> >> lies with brake booster. To be more specific, I think sufficient vacuum is
> >> not getting generated.
>
> >> Nitin : the chances of  the 1.3 MJD having this problem are *VERY *rare.
> >> Reason being the 1.3 has a separate vacuum pump to generate vacuum. (it
> >> being a diesel). So its of no use talking to any diesel owners about this
> >> problem. Diesel owners will have this problem only if the vacuum pump fails.
>
> >> Petrol engines do not have any separate vacuum generating device. The
> >> engine does this job of creating the vacuum.
>
> >> @ Nitin : speak to the SC first. Get the brake booster and check valve
> >> checked. I think changing the brake booster assembly should do the job for
> >> you. *Your brakes seem to be fine !!*
>
> >> As of now, don't think about going to Fiat higher ups. I think this issue
> >> can be resolved at the SC level (provided you get a competent service
> >> advisor)
>
> >> Keep us updated
>
> >> Amogh
>
> >>> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-indi­a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> .
> >>> > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> >>> groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> >>> --
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>
> >> --
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> >> .
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>
> > --
> > Nitin Kumar
> > Database Administrator
> > MphasiS, An HP Company
> > Cell: +91-9711009862
>
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>
> - Show quoted text -

Nitin Kumar

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May 4, 2010, 2:25:38 AM5/4/10
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Sambit, can you please confirm about make month\year of your car.
 
Nitin

sambit kundu

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May 4, 2010, 2:29:02 AM5/4/10
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December 2009.
Sambit

Nitin Kumar

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May 4, 2010, 2:30:54 AM5/4/10
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I am going to meet Mr. Amit Shrivastava, North India tech Lead, very soon. My meeting is delayed as he and his family is blessed with a baby boy and he is in Jabalpur.
 
I am waiting for him to come back.
 
Again, I am asking 1.2 owners to send me a mail using nku...@eds.com with full details. I'll attach those when I'll send a mail to FIAT's top guns.
 
Nitin.

Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 4, 2010, 2:34:18 AM5/4/10
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I have heard good things about Amit Shrivastava

Hope he lives up to his reputation and sorts out the issue.

btw Nitin : keep Mangesh Kodalkar in the loop of all email communications. His id is : mangesh....@fiapl.com

Amogh

CHA0S

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May 4, 2010, 4:25:26 AM5/4/10
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How many mumbai 1.2 active owner's are facing this particular brake
issue??
can we have a list, and may be we could do something about it..
together..

Thanks.

Nitin

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May 5, 2010, 6:20:57 AM5/5/10
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Team,

I have uploaded on file "Active Petrol Brake Failure issue.xls" if
files section.

Perpose of this files is to update details of owner and 1.2 Active
punto which is suffering from brake issue. Guys this is very serious
issue because we never now attitude of the person which cen be banged
by us due to this issue.

We have to proceed togeather towards Fiat top management.

Thank you,
Nitin




On May 2, 10:53 pm, Nitin <nitinkumar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Team,
>
> I am owning Punto Petrol Active since November 2009.
>
> I was enjoyign this beauty but now facing brake failure issue on low
> RPM while AC is ON.
>
> Let me explane the condition, assume I am running in bumper to bumper
> traffic. I need to just release clutch little bit in 1st gear. At the
> same time I am keeping right feet on brake to avoid hit to next one.
> This is pretty common situation in Jam when you can't release clutch
> fully even in 1st Gear and using brake to avoid to hit next vehicle.
>
> In this condition, brake padel gets very very hard in around 15
> seconds, almost unusable. It takes around 7-10 seconds to become
> normal.
>
> I had words with 4 other owners of Petrol Active model and they are
> als0 facing almost same issue.
>
> I am about to talk to FIAT's top management but prior to that I want
> feedback from more owners. Please test it and let me know.
>
> It can be serious issue.
>
> Thanking you in advance.
>
> Nitin

Mohit Kumar

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May 5, 2010, 7:52:05 AM5/5/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com, nku...@eds.com
Nitin,
 
I am also facing the same issue.  Got my car serviced this Monday and explained the same issue to the technician at Elegant.  he checked for the brakes and found nothing wrong with them.  The next day I informed him of Brake Booster and he's response was how can I be so sure that its a problem with the booster.  All I could say was that I am user and facing this issue.  He being the technician needs to check with Fiat and diagnose the issue and resolve it.
 
He hasn't got back to me till now.  Now, if you say, there's a problem with the engine and not the booster....you must have verified the same.
 
You can include my complaint in the email to be sent to Fiat.  Hope they work fast on this, as you never know, when anyone of us could face the situation of banging any object, living thing from behind.  Will Fiat take the ownership and compensate the other person for the damage?
 
@Abdul:  I will check on your advice and follow it up with the manufacturer as well.
 
Regards,
 
Mohit

--
Mohit Kumar

Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 5, 2010, 7:58:35 AM5/5/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com, nku...@eds.com
Hold on guys !!

I think there is some misunderstanding here. As much as I know (and I stand to be corrected) : this is not a problem WITH the engine. 

Whatever cars have faced this problem, most of them have been the 1.2 Active. That does not imply there is something wrong with the engine. I have also read about a Linea (which has the 1.4) having this problem.

Amogh


On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Mohit Kumar <moh...@gmail.com> wrote:

 
He hasn't got back to me till now.  Now, if you say, there's a problem with the engine and not the booster....you must have verified the same.
 

 

CHA0S

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May 5, 2010, 9:14:07 AM5/5/10
to Punto Users Group India
I'm going tomorrow, to a TATA showroom... for a 1.2 TD (punto +
vista)
Will put my inputs here about the punto..

Nitin

unread,
May 7, 2010, 1:30:56 PM5/7/10
to Punto Users Group India
Team,

I took an initiative to report brake issue to FIAT.

Frankly speaking, I thought , this issue could be stronger with your
support.

Unfortunately , Mohit Kumar is only person who replied with details in
spreadsheet.

Please come forward and support me on this.

Thank you.
Nitin


On May 2, 10:53 pm, Nitin <nitinkumar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Team,
>
> I am owning Punto Petrol Active since November 2009.
>
> I was enjoyign this beauty but now facing brake failure issue on low
> RPM while AC is ON.
>
> Let me explane the condition, assume I am running in bumper to bumper
> traffic. I need to just release clutch little bit in 1st gear. At the
> same time I am keeping right feet on brake to avoid hit to next one.
> This is pretty common situation in Jam when you can't release clutch
> fully even in 1st Gear and using brake to avoid to hit next vehicle.
>
> In this condition, brake padel gets very very hard in around 15
> seconds, almost unusable. It takes around 7-10 seconds to become
> normal.
>
> I had words with 4 other owners of Petrol Active model and they are
> als0 facing almost same issue.
>
> I am about to talk to FIAT's top management but prior to that I want
> feedback from more owners. Please test it and let me know.
>
> It can be serious issue.
>
> Thanking you in advance.
>
> Nitin
>

Gautam Khadse

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May 7, 2010, 1:48:41 PM5/7/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Hi Nitin ,

I couldnt simulate the issue on my car ... sorry bud ! will try again

CHA0S

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May 7, 2010, 9:28:35 PM5/7/10
to Punto Users Group India
Guys, I drove the TD 1.2 emotion at a dealer yesterday: (another
friend also assisted me who drives a linea without ABS..)
tried a start & stop & start, bumper to bumper, half clutch motion,
lugged the engine a lot.. upto 500 rpm.

I felt the brakes a bit hard (may be coz I drive a 1.4 E+), but my
friend said, the 1.2's brakes felt just like his linea's!!

I asked the sales man, if the 1.2 emotion had any mechanical changes
compared to the early 1.2 active??
he said only cosmetic changes in cabin and body, machine still same..

I didnt find anything wrong, I was able to keep up in traffic and keep
others from entering in front of me by tailgating a car ahead of me..

May be we could discuss this issue in detail when we all meet!!

AnanÐ

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May 7, 2010, 10:06:13 PM5/7/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
True... We need to discuss this when we meet...

Even Ratan had told me a lot of time that there is something wrong with his 1.2Active... But when i drove it it was normal and i felt no difference in the breaking...
--
Regards,
AnÐy

Nitin Kumar

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May 8, 2010, 2:15:50 AM5/8/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
 
Have you taken test ride? if yes, pls let us know about the same.

--
Nitin Kumar
Database Administrator
MphasiS, An HP Company
Cell: +91-9711009862

Soundra Pandian

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May 8, 2010, 2:22:14 AM5/8/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
I own one buddy :)

Nitin Kumar

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May 8, 2010, 2:25:38 AM5/8/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
 
Pls confirm if you are also facing this issue?
 
Nitin

Nitin Kumar

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May 9, 2010, 2:37:57 AM5/9/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Please confirm if AC was swithced ON during your testing?
 
Nitin

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 6:58 AM, CHA0S <aashay.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Nitin Kumar
Database Administrator
MphasiS, An HP Company
Cell: +91-9711009862

Nitin Kumar

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May 9, 2010, 2:41:30 AM5/9/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Andy, Can you please give me mail ID of Ratan.
--
Nitin Kumar
Database Administrator
MphasiS, An HP Company
Cell: +91-9711009862

sambit kundu

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May 9, 2010, 2:41:22 AM5/9/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
I Nitin,

I drove my Punto for 140 kms yesterday and had to face lot of traffic jam on my way and back. But I did not face this problem even once during my journey.
Sambit

AnanÐ

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May 9, 2010, 4:58:40 AM5/9/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Nitin,

His ID is ratan...@hotmail.com

BTW he is a member in this grp too...

VIshwas

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May 9, 2010, 2:13:34 PM5/9/10
to Punto Users Group India
Nitin,

I have just yesterday bought a 1.2 Emotion Punto.
I did go through some B2B traffic today evening and to my horror it
happened a couple of times to me as well.
I had to do panic hand-breaking to avoid hitting the tailed vehicle.
Its extremely scary.
Its almost like brakes are freezed and we are totally helpless.
I am having nightmares as to what would happen if this things repeats
on a speeding highway.
This has to be fixed ASAP. This is very serious issue. I wonder what
QA has FIAT done and how come its not yet been caught by them.
I am rushing to the FIAT a.s.s tomo morning.
My telephone # is 9890762331. Lets please discuss of how to take this
forward with FIAT.



On May 9, 1:58 pm, AnanÐ <andy1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nitin,
>
> His ID is ratansh...@hotmail.com
>
> BTW he is a member in this grp too...
>
> On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Nitin Kumar <nitinkumar...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Andy, Can you please give me mail ID of Ratan.
>
> > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 7:36 AM, AnanÐ <andy1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> True... We need to discuss this when we meet...
>
> >> Even Ratan had told me a lot of time that there is something wrong with
> >> his 1.2Active... But when i drove it it was normal and i felt no difference
> >> in the breaking...
>
> >> On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 6:58 AM, CHA0S <aashay.nicebut...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> Guys, I drove the TD 1.2 emotion at a dealer yesterday: (another
> >>> friend also assisted me who drives a linea without ABS..)
> >>> tried a start & stop & start, bumper to bumper, half clutch motion,
> >>> lugged the engine a lot.. upto 500 rpm.
>
> >>> I felt the brakes a bit hard (may be coz I drive a 1.4 E+), but my
> >>> friend said, the 1.2's brakes felt just like his linea's!!
>
> >>> I asked the sales man, if the 1.2 emotion had any mechanical changes
> >>> compared to the early 1.2 active??
> >>> he said only cosmetic changes in cabin and body, machine still same..
>
> >>> I didnt find anything wrong, I was able to keep up in traffic and keep
> >>> others from entering in front of me by tailgating a car ahead of me..
>
> >>> May be we could discuss this issue in detail when we all meet!!
>
> >>> --
> >>>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>> Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to
> >>> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-indi a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> .
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >> AnÐy
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Punto Users Group India" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to
> >> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-indi a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Nitin Kumar
> > Database Administrator
> > MphasiS, An HP Company
> > Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Punto Users Group India" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-indi a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

Soundra Pandian

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May 9, 2010, 9:41:35 PM5/9/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Congrats on your new 1.2. Don't worry, it wont happen in speeding highways. As a matter of fact, the brakes are excellent, otherwise. Only problem is the brake during 500RPM run.

sambit kundu

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May 10, 2010, 1:37:47 AM5/10/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Just for all 1.2 owners, I had escaped a big head on collision the other day on the highway while cruising @ 100 km per hour and must give credit to the excellent braking system of Punto, though we don't have ABS system in our Active model. So don't worry about highway. 

Now coming back to back to back traffic jam situation I did not face this braking problem so far. I'll try to do a simulation of the same today to find out if the same problem happening with my Punto or not.

Sambit

Nitin Kumar

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May 10, 2010, 2:01:16 AM5/10/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
I also confirm that highway braking is excellent in Active. I found
that Wheel gets locked but still Punto mange almost straight line and
car stops within short distance.

Low RPM braking is having issue only when AC is ON. However it is on
slow speed but still we can't assume that we are going to hit
gentlemen only.

Just suppose , if you hit a bad\criminal person while travelling with
family. We all are enough intelligent and can assume further.

Nitin
>>> > >>> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com><punto-users-group-indi
>>> a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com <a%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
>>> > >>> .
>>> > >>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>>> >
>>> > >> --
>>> > >> Regards,
>>> > >> AnÐy
>>> >
>>> > >> --
>>> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> > >> "Punto Users Group India" group.
>>> > >> To post to this group, send email to
>>> > >> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> > >> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com><punto-users-group-indi
>>> a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com <a%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
>>> > >> .
>>> > >> For more options, visit this group at
>>> > >>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>>> >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Nitin Kumar
>>> > > Database Administrator
>>> > > MphasiS, An HP Company
>>> > > Cell: +91-9711009862
>>> >
>>> > > --
>>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> > > "Punto Users Group India" group.
>>> > > To post to this group, send email to
>>> > > punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> > > punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com><punto-users-group-indi
>>> a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com <a%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
>>> > > .
>>> > > For more options, visit this group at
>>> > >http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Regards,
>>> > AnÐy
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
>>> > To post to this group, send email to
>>> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>>> .
>>> > For more options, visit this group athttp://
>>> groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "Punto Users Group India" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>>> .
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Punto Users Group India" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to
>> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Punto Users Group India" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
>


--
Nitin Kumar
Database Administrator
MphasiS, An HP Company
Cell: +91-9711009862

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
To post to this group, send email to punto-users...@googlegroups.com.

VIshwas

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May 10, 2010, 3:01:42 AM5/10/10
to Punto Users Group India
Oh only when switching off the AC is it?? That explains why I could
not replicate it when trying it in my apartment road in the
morning...
looking at the brighter side, now atleast I can ride it in the traffic
switching AC off whenever I see a jam ahead till FIAT fixes this !!
Still cannot fathom, if its happening on most 1.2 cars how come FIAT
did not get this during their internal testing!!


On May 10, 11:01 am, Nitin Kumar <nitinkumar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I also confirm that highway braking is excellent in Active. I found
> that Wheel gets locked but still Punto mange almost straight line and
> car stops within short distance.
>
> Low RPM braking is having issue only when AC is ON. However it is on
> slow speed but still we can't assume that we are going to hit
> gentlemen only.
>
> Just suppose , if you hit a bad\criminal person while travelling with
> family. We all are enough intelligent and can assume further.
>
> Nitin
>
> On 5/10/10, sambit kundu <sambitku...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Just for all 1.2 owners, I had escaped a big head on collision the other day
> > on the highway while cruising @ 100 km per hour and must give credit to the
> > excellent braking system of Punto, though we don't have ABS system in our
> > Active model. So don't worry about highway.
>
> > Now coming back to back to back traffic jam situation I did not face this
> > braking problem so far. I'll try to do a simulation of the same today to
> > find out if the same problem happening with my Punto or not.
>
> > Sambit
>
> > On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Soundra Pandian
> > <soundar.d....@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Congrats on your new 1.2. Don't worry, it wont happen in speeding
> >> highways.
> >> As a matter of fact, the brakes are excellent, otherwise. Only problem is
> >> the brake during 500RPM run.
>
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.

CHA0S

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May 10, 2010, 9:08:16 AM5/10/10
to Punto Users Group India
Everyone, who is facing the brake issue in their 1.2 Punto's;

Could you all please describe the exact situation..!

I mean, what "exactly" do you do that you feel the brakes dont work??
this way, we can narrow down at what exact situation it happens...

And eliminate that it is not human error here in the picture!!

रमेश मधुसूदन जोशी

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May 10, 2010, 9:13:51 AM5/10/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
From just curiosity perspective, does dead brake mean you can not push the break or break goes till the bottom but does not work?

Nitin Kumar

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May 10, 2010, 9:15:35 AM5/10/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
We can't press the padel... its same hardness which comes while you padel the brake couple of times with engine switched off.

2010/5/10 रमेश मधुसूदन जोशी <rmj...@gmail.com>

--
Nitin Kumar
Database Administrator
MphasiS, An HP Company
Cell: +91-9711009862

Mohit Kumar

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May 10, 2010, 10:20:10 AM5/10/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Chaos,
 
Its something like we are pressing the brakes and there is no response.  The vehicle is still moving ahead....left with only 2 options to avoid banging on the front vehicle:
 
-  Use the hand brake as well
-  Shift to neutral and then press the brakes.
 
Mohit

--
Mohit Kumar

CHA0S

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May 10, 2010, 4:22:30 PM5/10/10
to Punto Users Group India
Mohit, and other's
Does shifting to neutral, really improve braking efficiency?? (how
many have tried? and it worked?)

BTW, guys please mention generally in which gear @ approx speed does
the braking feel hard?

On May 10, 7:20 pm, Mohit Kumar <mohi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chaos,
>
> Its something like we are pressing the brakes and there is no response.  The
> vehicle is still moving ahead....left with only 2 options to avoid banging
> on the front vehicle:
>
> -  Use the hand brake as well
> -  Shift to neutral and then press the brakes.
>
> Mohit
>
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Nitin Kumar <nitinkumar...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > We can't press the padel... its same hardness which comes while you padel
> > the brake couple of times with engine switched off.
>
> > 2010/5/10 रमेश मधुसूदन जोशी <rmjo...@gmail.com>
>
> > From just curiosity perspective, does dead brake mean you can not push the
> >> break or break goes till the bottom but does not work?
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Punto Users Group India" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to
> >> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Nitin Kumar
> > Database Administrator
> > MphasiS, An HP Company
> > Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Punto Users Group India" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> --
> Mohit Kumar
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
> To post to this group, send email to punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.

Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 11, 2010, 12:09:06 AM5/11/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Guys,

Does this by any chance happen ONLY when you are driving half clutch / trying to brake with the clutch half / fully pressed ?

Could you try and check if this happens when the clutch is fully released, engine rpm is low and you try to brake ?

Just try out various scenarios about when this happens and when this does not happen.

Amogh


On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:52 AM, CHA0S <aashay.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
Mohit, and other's
Does shifting to neutral, really improve braking efficiency?? (how
many have tried? and it worked?)

BTW, guys please mention generally in which gear @ approx speed does
the braking feel hard?

Gautam Khadse

unread,
May 11, 2010, 12:09:41 AM5/11/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
OK Guys ,

I was finally able to simulate the issue on my active too .. it was scary ...

So heres how I simulated the issue .

-Start you car
-put it in first gear
-at this point do not press the accelerator
-just release the clutch slowly and if done correctly your car should start moving
-without pressing the accelerator the car should be running at speeds between 10 - 20 kmph
-start pressing the brake slowly and very gently ..do not press it completely (The action should be similar to using a foot pump)
-few gentle pushes and voila you have a stiff brake
-this symptom goes away as soon as you press the clutch or try to accelerate the car


The important things to note here are you must not press the accelerator or the clutch which would ideally happen in a bumper to bumper traffic .

@Chaos : Setting the car in neutral would mean you need to press the clutch , which would mean the brake frees up again.

Does the brake work on some sort of hydraulics ?

I would appreciate if someone owning another variant follows the exact same steps and is able to replicate the issue

Regards
Gautam



On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:52 AM, CHA0S <aashay.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

Abhijeet Barve

unread,
May 11, 2010, 12:23:55 AM5/11/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Well the brake works on hydraulics. That is the reason the brakes are stiff when the engine is off. 
Now the surprising factor is why its stiff when the engine is running but at lower RPM. In this thread
somebody mentioned it happening at 500 rpm. Is this RPM band not enough for the brake hydraulics
to work?  What happens when:

1. Car is in neutral and in idle rpm band by default (Around 900 rpm)
2. You apply break slowly multiple times
3. Does this lock the brake? If not then certainly the RPM range could be an issue.

Cheers
Abhi
--
"If at first you don't succeed, call it Version 1.0"

Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 11, 2010, 1:15:46 AM5/11/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
I think the solution lies in not letting the rpm drop below the idling rpm. 

Try tweaking your driving styles a little bit. 

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Gautam Khadse <gautam...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nitin Kumar

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May 11, 2010, 1:28:33 AM5/11/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Amogh, its not possible to keep RPM beyind 500 all the times. There are times when you can't do it. In case you do it somehow means you are burning extra fuel.
 
We need some solution from FIAT because this is not normal. I am not sure how ARAI approved this.
Nitin

Abhijeet Barve

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May 11, 2010, 1:35:23 AM5/11/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Typically RPM falls below idle rpm when we:

1. Do not use clutch
2. Do not use Accelerator

500 rpm is pretty close to stalling the car. Dont you get any knocking at 500 rpm? 
--
"If at first you don't succeed, call it Version 1.0"

Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 11, 2010, 1:37:21 AM5/11/10
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First of all I don't understand how the rpm drops to 500 !?!?!?!

If the idling rpm is 900 - 1000 : there is no way the rpm should drop to 500 !! The anti-stall should kick in and keep the rpm at idling rpm.

This is what needs to be checked with Fiat. Nitin, take this up with Amit Srivastava. I will also check with others.

Amogh

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Nitin Kumar <nitink...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nitin Kumar

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May 11, 2010, 1:43:03 AM5/11/10
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Amogh, You are right. I was about to reply and saw your note.
 
I am sure 1.2 never goes down like 500. I noticed RPM around 900-1000 when Car is started and neutral.
 
If you don't accelarate , in any gear, anti stall kicks ON which make sure that RPM never goes down by around 800-900.
 
Nitin

Gautam Khadse

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May 11, 2010, 2:19:26 AM5/11/10
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This occurs even at 800-1000 RPM .. the solution i see is to press the clutch more often , dont know if that would cause clutch wearing or burning more fuel .

Nitin Kumar

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May 11, 2010, 2:42:20 AM5/11/10
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Yes, Gautam this is a solution but it'll eat your clutch assembly.

VIshwas

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May 11, 2010, 2:50:05 AM5/11/10
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Yes it happens whenever we press & release the brakes continuously
like we do in B2B traffic or when parking/reversing in tight spots and
RPM is generally at 900-1200 in such conditions
The thing i really fear is will this happen at high RPMs/speed too
whenever we press & release the brakes continuously? Mostly a unlikely
scenario in real world, since we do constant breaking only in heavy
traffic.


On May 11, 11:19 am, Gautam Khadse <gautamkha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This occurs even at 800-1000 RPM .. the solution i see is to press the
> clutch more often , dont know if that would cause clutch wearing or burning
> more fuel .
>
> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Nitin Kumar <nitinkumar...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Amogh, You are right. I was about to reply and saw your note.
>
> > I am sure 1.2 never goes down like 500. I noticed RPM around 900-1000 when
> > Car is started and neutral.
>
> > If you don't accelarate , in any gear, anti stall kicks ON which make sure
> > that RPM never goes down by around 800-900.
>
> > Nitin
> > On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Amogh Chaphalkar <
> > amogh.chaphal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> First of all I don't understand how the rpm drops to 500 !?!?!?!
>
> >> If the idling rpm is 900 - 1000 : there is no way the rpm should drop to
> >> 500 !! The anti-stall should kick in and keep the rpm at idling rpm.
>
> >> This is what needs to be checked with Fiat. Nitin, take this up with Amit
> >> Srivastava. I will also check with others.
>
> >> Amogh
>
> >>   On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Nitin Kumar <nitinkumar...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>   Amogh, its not possible to keep RPM beyind 500 all the times. There
> >>> are times when you can't do it. In case you do it somehow means you are
> >>> burning extra fuel.
>
> >>> We need some solution from FIAT because this is not normal. I am not sure
> >>> how ARAI approved this.
> >>> Nitin
> >>>   On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Amogh Chaphalkar <
> >>> amogh.chaphal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>  I think the solution lies in not letting the rpm drop below the idling
> >>>> rpm.
>
> >>>> Try tweaking your driving styles a little bit.
>
> >>>>  On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Gautam Khadse <gautamkha...@gmail.com
> >>>>>> <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> >>>>>> > >> .
> >>>>>> > >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>>>> > >>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> >>>>>> > > --
> >>>>>> > > Nitin Kumar
> >>>>>> > > Database Administrator
> >>>>>> > > MphasiS, An HP Company
> >>>>>> > > Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> >>>>>> > > --
> >>>>>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>>>> Groups
> >>>>>> > > "Punto Users Group India" group.
> >>>>>> > > To post to this group, send email to
> >>>>>> > > punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>>>> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>>>>> > > punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >>>>>> <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> >>>>>> > > .
> >>>>>> > > For more options, visit this group at
> >>>>>> > >http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> >>>>>> > --
> >>>>>> > Mohit Kumar
>
> >>>>>> > --
> >>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>>>> Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
> >>>>>> > To post to this group, send email to
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> >>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>
> >>>>>> --
> ...
>
> read more »

Abhijeet Barve

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May 11, 2010, 2:58:21 AM5/11/10
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I used to do such pumping of brakes in rainy days for effective braking in my Palio. This is 
a general practice to avoid skidding. If the rpm is >= idle rpm you ideally SHOULD NOT 
face this problem. The brake gets hydraulic power from the engine. What I used to do on
my Palio is:

1. I used to break and release like a pumping action when I know the stopping distance
or to reduce the speed
2. Once the rpm falls because of braking to a level where the car might stall, I slightly 
press clutch

This never jammed the brakes even after press-release of brake multiple times. 
Any 1.4 Punto owners who are facing this same problem?


--
"If at first you don't succeed, call it Version 1.0"

Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 11, 2010, 2:59:31 AM5/11/10
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It WON'T happen at high speeds / high rpm. Don't worry about that.

The issue as I (and a few others) are seeing it is not enough vacuum is generated in the brake assembly when the engine is running at low rpm.

has anybody tried keeping the car in neutral, engine at idling rpm and then check if this happens ?

Amogh

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:20 PM, VIshwas <vbha...@gmail.com> wrote:

VIshwas

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May 11, 2010, 3:19:23 AM5/11/10
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Thats really good, if it will not happen at high-rpms/speed. Else it
is a life threatening problem!
Because at low rpms. hand brake works as a jugaad till FIAT fixes
this.
But I fail to understand why only when AC is switched ON??? how are
brakes related to AC switching off/on
Does some electronics system in that car think that engine is switched
off at low rpms and freeze the brakes, the way it does when engine is
switched off actually?

On May 11, 11:59 am, Amogh Chaphalkar <amogh.chaphal...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> It *WON'T *happen at high speeds / high rpm. Don't worry about that.
>
> The issue as I (and a few others) are seeing it is not enough vacuum is
> generated in the brake assembly when the engine is running at low rpm.
>
> has anybody tried keeping the car in neutral, engine at idling rpm and then
> check if this happens ?
>
> Amogh
>
> > > >>>>>> <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > >>>>>> > >> .
> > > >>>>>> > >> For more options, visit this group at
> > > >>>>>> > >>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> > > >>>>>> > > --
> > > >>>>>> > > Nitin Kumar
> > > >>>>>> > > Database Administrator
> > > >>>>>> > > MphasiS, An HP Company
> > > >>>>>> > > Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> > > >>>>>> > > --
> > > >>>>>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > Google
> > > >>>>>> Groups
> > > >>>>>> > > "Punto Users Group India" group.
> > > >>>>>> > > To post to this group, send email to
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> > <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > >>>>>> <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > >>>>>> > > .
> > > >>>>>> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >>>>>> > >http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> > > >>>>>> > --
> > > >>>>>> > Mohit Kumar
>
> > > >>>>>> > --
> > > >>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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>
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>
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>

CHA0S

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May 11, 2010, 3:38:43 AM5/11/10
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Guys, like i suggested earlier about the brake issue when at lower
RPM..

The rpm, falling below the idle speed, would mean low power, which
would automatically mean, low power to the parts depending primarily
on the engine for power!!

When you turn the AC on, more power is given to the AC than the other
parts...
Hope its not complicated to confuse..

BTW, its hard to tell when the petrol engine is lugging... the punto
is that smooth..

Roy Johnson

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May 11, 2010, 3:48:09 AM5/11/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com

The reason is at low rpms, there isn't sufficient power left to run the AC and provide hydraulic assist to the brakes as well
Depressing the clutch frees up the engine to increase rpm and generate sufficient power

~Roy

sent from Android mobile device

On May 11, 2010 12:49 PM, "VIshwas" <vbha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thats really good, if it will not happen at high-rpms/speed. Else it
is a life threatening problem!
Because at low rpms. hand brake works as a jugaad till FIAT fixes
this.
But I fail to understand why only when AC is switched ON??? how are
brakes related to AC switching off/on
Does some electronics system in that car think that engine is switched
off at low rpms and freeze the brakes, the way it does when engine is
switched off actually?

On May 11, 11:59 am, Amogh Chaphalkar <amogh.chaphal...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> It *WON'T *happen at high speeds / high rpm. Don't worry about that. > > The issue as I (and a few...

> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:20 PM, VIshwas <vbhag...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes it happens whenever ...

> > <punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>

> > > > >>>>>> > >> . > > > >>>>>> > >> For more options, visit this group at > > > >>>>>> > >>http:...

> > <punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>

> > > > >>>>>> > > . > > > >>>>>> > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >>>>>> > >http://g...

> > <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%252Bunsubscribe@...

> > > >>>>>> > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > >>>>>> groups.google.com/group/pun...

> > <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%252Bunsubscribe@...

> ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups...

VIshwas

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May 11, 2010, 4:23:41 AM5/11/10
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Ah that makes sense.
Is it a easy or a complicated issue to fix?? I know its a speculative
question.

On May 11, 12:48 pm, Roy Johnson <royjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The reason is at low rpms, there isn't sufficient power left to run the AC
> and provide hydraulic assist to the brakes as well
> Depressing the clutch frees up the engine to increase rpm and generate
> sufficient power
>
> ~Roy
>
> sent from Android mobile device
>
> On May 11, 2010 12:49 PM, "VIshwas" <vbhag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thats really good, if it will not happen at high-rpms/speed. Else it
> is a life threatening problem!
> Because at low rpms. hand brake works as a jugaad till FIAT fixes
> this.
> But I fail to understand why only when AC is switched ON??? how are
> brakes related to AC switching off/on
> Does some electronics system in that car think that engine is switched
> off at low rpms and freeze the brakes, the way it does when engine is
> switched off actually?
>
> On May 11, 11:59 am, Amogh Chaphalkar <amogh.chaphal...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It *WON'T *happen at high speeds / high rpm. Don't worry about that. > >
>
> The issue as I (and a few...
>
> > On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:20 PM, VIshwas <vbhag...@gmail.com> wrote: > >
>
> Yes it happens whenever ...> > <punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>
> <punto-users-group-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2525252Bu...@googlegroups.com>
>
>
>
> > > > > >>>>>> > >> . > > > >>>>>> > >> For more options, visit this group
>
> at > > > >>>>>> > >>http:...> > <punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>
> <punto-users-group-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2525252Bu...@googlegroups.com>
>
>
>
> > > > > >>>>>> > > . > > > >>>>>> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >>>>>> > >http://g...
> > > <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> <punto-users-group-india%252Bunsubscribe@...
>
> > > > >>>>>> > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > >>>>>>
>
> groups.google.com/group/pun...
>
> > > <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

jumu

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May 11, 2010, 4:54:26 AM5/11/10
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Yeah Amogh, As we discussed,

Also pumping the brake in neutral at idling would make if it clear
that there is enough vaccum at idling rpm but less at lower rpm and
hence the jam up of the pedals.

It could be also as result of the ECU not functioning properly when it
is required to kick in the anti stall at low rpm. How about doing the
reprogramme of the ECU by disconnecting the (-)ve of the battery for
15 minutes and then reconnecting. ?
My thinking on these lines is because not all 1.2s have this problem.

After reprogramming, try out the pumping of the brakes on neutral
idling, then take the car out and drive in first gear and simulate
b2b. observe if the rpm is falling below idling. If it still falls
below idling and antistall does not kick in then Pls go ahead and
escalate upto Fiat top head

Abdul

On May 11, 11:59 am, Amogh Chaphalkar <amogh.chaphal...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> It *WON'T *happen at high speeds / high rpm. Don't worry about that.
> > > >>>>>> > >> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-indi­a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-i­ndia%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > >>>>>> <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-i­ndia%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group­-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > >>>>>> > >> .
> > > >>>>>> > >> For more options, visit this group at
> > > >>>>>> > >>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> > > >>>>>> > > --
> > > >>>>>> > > Nitin Kumar
> > > >>>>>> > > Database Administrator
> > > >>>>>> > > MphasiS, An HP Company
> > > >>>>>> > > Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> > > >>>>>> > > --
> > > >>>>>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > Google
> > > >>>>>> Groups
> > > >>>>>> > > "Punto Users Group India" group.
> > > >>>>>> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > >>>>>> > > punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> > > >>>>>> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > >>>>>> > > punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-indi­a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-i­ndia%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > >>>>>> <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-i­ndia%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group­-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > >>>>>> > > .
> > > >>>>>> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >>>>>> > >http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> > > >>>>>> > --
> > > >>>>>> > Mohit Kumar
>
> > > >>>>>> > --
> > > >>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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> > <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-i­ndia%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > >>>>>> .
> > > >>>>>> > For more options, visit this group athttp://
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>
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> > <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-i­ndia%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
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> > > >>>>>> .
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> ...
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> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

sambit kundu

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May 11, 2010, 5:10:34 AM5/11/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
I checked rpm at idle position and could see that my punto's rpm is at 1000 level so no way it can come down below 500 as others are facing.


Sambit

Abhijeet Barve

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May 11, 2010, 5:15:14 AM5/11/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Found this link:


Please  read the para: HARD BRAKE PEDAL. 

Check out the instructions and see if the power booster is the culprit.
If not then this seems to be the low vacuum problem.

Cheers
Abhi

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 2:24 PM, jumu <jum...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
"If at first you don't succeed, call it Version 1.0"

jumu

unread,
May 11, 2010, 6:32:49 AM5/11/10
to Punto Users Group India
If it is happening only in some 1.2s, then why not try reprogramming
the ECU by disconnecting the -(ve) of the battery and reconnecting
after 15 minutes. Maybe it will reprogram the ECU to kick in the
antistall function ( which may have gone into sleep mode!) when the
rpm falls below idling. That the engine does not stall at even 500 rpm
is amazing.

After reconnecting and starting the car , at idle pump the brakes . If
nothing happens adverse then vaccum generation at that idling rpm is
OK. Now try out a b2b in first gear and see if it isl alright. Chk if
the rpm is falling below idling. It should not under normal
conditions.

If it still does not improve, then dont waste time. get the matter
accross to the Fiat heads asap .They need to seriously pu their heads
together on this issue. Imagine women driving and they wont have a
clue what is happening in most cases

Abdul




On May 11, 11:59 am, Amogh Chaphalkar <amogh.chaphal...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> It *WON'T *happen at high speeds / high rpm. Don't worry about that.
> > > >>>>>> > >> .
> > > >>>>>> > >> For more options, visit this group at
> > > >>>>>> > >>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> > > >>>>>> > > --
> > > >>>>>> > > Nitin Kumar
> > > >>>>>> > > Database Administrator
> > > >>>>>> > > MphasiS, An HP Company
> > > >>>>>> > > Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> > > >>>>>> > > --
> > > >>>>>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > Google
> > > >>>>>> Groups
> > > >>>>>> > > "Punto Users Group India" group.
> > > >>>>>> > > To post to this group, send email to
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jumu

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May 11, 2010, 6:47:52 AM5/11/10
to Punto Users Group India
That link was interesting. But nowhere there is a link to engine rpm.
The complication in the 1.2 is that the rpm is dropping dangerously
low and still engine doesnt stall and all symptoms free up at higher
speed/ rpm. I guess the basic tests mentioned there can be done and
other factors ruled out

Abdul

On May 11, 2:15 pm, Abhijeet Barve <linker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Found this link:
>
> http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfixes.htm
>
> <http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfixes.htm>Please  read the para: *HARD BRAKE
> PEDAL. *
> *
> *
> > <punto-users-group-indi­a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<a%252Bunsubscribe@­googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-i­ndia%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <punto-users-group-i­ndia%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<ndia%25252Bunsub­scr...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > > >>>>>> <punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-i­ndia%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <punto-users-group-i­ndia%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<ndia%25252Bunsub­scr...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > <punto-users-group-india%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group­-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
> > <punto-users-group­-india%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com<india%2525252B­unsub...@googlegroups.com>
>
> > > > > >>>>>> > >> .
> > > > > >>>>>> > >> For more options, visit this group at
>
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>
> > > > > >>>>>> > > --
> > > > > >>>>>> > > Nitin Kumar
> > > > > >>>>>> > > Database Administrator
> > > > > >>>>>> > > MphasiS, An HP Company
> > > > > >>>>>> > > Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> > > > > >>>>>> > > --
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Nitin Kumar

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May 11, 2010, 9:07:05 AM5/11/10
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Abdul,
 
RPM never falls below 800-900 RPM in any condition. I tried in every gear. at around 800 RPM, anti stall kicks in.
 
I am in touch with FIAT. Amit suggested to register complaint in Fiat and send send vehicle and owners details.
 
I am still waiting for response from some of this group members. Once I have their details, I'll forward this matter to top manamegent.
 
Guys, pls send me your details ASAP.
 
Nitin

CHA0S

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May 11, 2010, 10:22:46 AM5/11/10
to Punto Users Group India
If the car does NOT stall, that means the anti stall is doing its job
perfectly... if the rpm still drops lower then the car will eventually
stall!

Try this, in bumper to bumper traffic, for just once, go easy... one
day or just one stretch where you regularly face the brakes problem...
when traffic starts moving, go relaxed.. let a car cut in front of you
if he really wants to cut his lane..

And do note down how regularly did the pedal go hard comparing to your
earlier regular routine...

Nitin Kumar

unread,
May 11, 2010, 12:11:36 PM5/11/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Guys,
 
If you want to replicate this issue, just drive in b2b traffic with AC ON. No need to put any extra efforts.
 
You will not face any issue while driving in same manner and same traffic condition if AC is switched off but will face if AC is on.
 
We have talked about faulty ECU.. this can be possible with all 1.2 cars. We talked about Anti stall which is  not at all dependent on AC.
 
I think this topic is getting too long now. Lets take some action. I am asking to provde details again and again but still waiting.
 
Lets come forward and do something...
 
Nitin

--
Nitin Kumar
Database Administrator
MphasiS, An HP Company
Cell: +91-9711009862

Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 12, 2010, 1:06:40 AM5/12/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Dear Nitin,

What do you want us to do exactly when you say "take some action" ? As far as I see it, those who have the problem on this group have reported it to you. (Mohit, Soundra, Vishwas & Gautam).

Now those who do not have this problem (for eg : Sambit) are obviously not going to report it !!

Please appreciate that those who do not have / own the 1.2 have tried to help you guys out in whatever ways they can. (Aashay went to the dealership and took a test drive, I went to the showroom and test drove the 1.2 thrice !! .. we could not simulate this issue)

Have rest of the 1.2 owners (who are facing this issue) reported the problem to Fiat Customer Support ? 

When are you going to meet Amit Srivastava ? Unless he meets you and sees the problem for himself, there is very little that anybody else can do. In fact, I think, by arranging his visit to check your car, Fiat is already doing their bit.

Amogh

Nitin Kumar

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May 12, 2010, 4:06:59 AM5/12/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Amogh,
 
I really appreciate help from you and others who are standing with us even does not own 1.2. 
 
Gautam Khadse
Naveen
Andy
Ratan
 
I am still waiting for response from bellow guys:
 
Gautam Khadse
Naveen
Andy

Ratan

 

I think they are owner of 1.2 and facing this problem and confirmed the same in this discussion.
 
I already sent a seprate mail with spreadsheet to all of them but no response.
 
I think if 10 people from diffrent location of India, report this problem then FIAT will surly look into this otherwise it would be very hard for 2-3 guys to fight.
 
Hope all of you can understand this....
 
Nitin

 

Naveen Rao

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May 12, 2010, 4:49:17 AM5/12/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Nitin,

There seems to be some confusion: Andy and I own 1.3 MJD and the issues that I am facing are completely different from the braking issue.

I am not too sure if Ratan is facing this issue, even though he owns a 1.2.

Naveen

jumu

unread,
May 12, 2010, 5:48:48 AM5/12/10
to Punto Users Group India
Nitin,

Rest assured that every member of this group will stand by each member
when needed determined by geography and availability of time.

Forcing people who do not have a problem to join in a cause may not be
ideal. You already have four members who have already signed up in the
complaints sheet. Those responses were spontaneous when you offered
the joint appeal possibility. Looks like there are no more members who
have an issue with the brake ,worth complaining to Fiat.

Lastly, as a Punto owner and Fiat customer, your complaint ieven if in
isolation is enough to make Fiat attend. There is no need to group up.
There may be several cases of complaints that are unique to an
individual car. All you have to do is to Put your foot down, appeal to
the right people at TASC or pull the right people at Fiat and the fact
is they have to ensure that you are satisfied in all aspects. Period.


Abdul
> >   On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Nitin Kumar <nitinkumar...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>   Guys,
>
> >> If you want to replicate this issue, just drive in b2b traffic with AC ON.
> >> No need to put any extra efforts.
>
> >> You will not face any issue while driving in same manner and same traffic
> >> condition if AC is switched off but will face if AC is on.
>
> >> We have talked about faulty ECU.. this can be possible with all 1.2 cars.
> >> We talked about Anti stall which is  not at all dependent on AC.
>
> >> I think this topic is getting too long now. Lets take some action. I am
> >> asking to provde details again and again but still waiting.
>
> >> Lets come forward and do something...
>
> >> Nitin
>
> >>  On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:52 PM, CHA0S <aashay.nicebut...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> If the car does NOT stall, that means the anti stall is doing its job
> >>> perfectly... if the rpm still drops lower then the car will eventually
> >>> stall!
>
> >>> Try this, in bumper to bumper traffic, for just once, go easy... one
> >>> day or just one stretch where you regularly face the brakes problem...
> >>> when traffic starts moving, go relaxed.. let a car cut in front of you
> >>> if he really wants to cut his lane..
>
> >>> And do note down how regularly did the pedal go hard comparing to your
> >>> earlier regular routine...
>
> >>> --
> >>>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>> Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to
> >>> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-indi­a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> .
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> >> --
> >>   Nitin Kumar
> >> Database Administrator
> >> MphasiS, An HP Company
> >> Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> >> --
> >>   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to
> >> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-indi­a%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> >   --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Punto Users Group India" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> --
> Nitin Kumar
> Database Administrator
> MphasiS, An HP Company
> Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
> To post to this group, send email to punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

AnanÐ

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May 12, 2010, 7:31:48 AM5/12/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Nitin,

I and Naveen own a MJD EPk and not a 1.2......

Also Ratan did complain abt this to me when he got the car but when i drove his car it was perfect and i couldn't find any problems nor was able to replicate the issue.

Also as Amogh stated u can go ahead with the complaints or talks with Fiat guys as ppl who are interested would surely reply and no eplies means things are fine...

So carry on....

Drive Safe....
--
Regards,
AnÐy

VIshwas

unread,
May 13, 2010, 2:50:53 AM5/13/10
to Punto Users Group India
Guys,

I tweaked my driving style to not let the engine fall below the idle
RPM and viola no problem with brakes (with/without AC).
The key is to press the clutch fully and break if the RPM is going
below idle RPM.
Thanks Amogh for this tip.

By the way I am really enjoying driving this thing, its absolute
bliss :)


On May 12, 4:31 pm, AnanÐ <andy1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nitin,
>
> I and Naveen own a MJD EPk and not a 1.2......
>
> Also Ratan did complain abt this to me when he got the car but when i drove
> his car it was perfect and i couldn't find any problems nor was able to
> replicate the issue.
>
> Also as Amogh stated u can go ahead with the complaints or talks with Fiat
> guys as ppl who are interested would surely reply and no eplies means things
> are fine...
>
> So carry on....
>
> Drive Safe....
>
> >>   On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Nitin Kumar <nitinkumar...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>   Guys,
>
> >>> If you want to replicate this issue, just drive in b2b traffic with AC
> >>> ON. No need to put any extra efforts.
>
> >>> You will not face any issue while driving in same manner and same traffic
> >>> condition if AC is switched off but will face if AC is on.
>
> >>> We have talked about faulty ECU.. this can be possible with all 1.2 cars.
> >>> We talked about Anti stall which is  not at all dependent on AC.
>
> >>> I think this topic is getting too long now. Lets take some action. I am
> >>> asking to provde details again and again but still waiting.
>
> >>> Lets come forward and do something...
>
> >>> Nitin
>
> >>>  On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:52 PM, CHA0S <aashay.nicebut...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>> If the car does NOT stall, that means the anti stall is doing its job
> >>>> perfectly... if the rpm still drops lower then the car will eventually
> >>>> stall!
>
> >>>> Try this, in bumper to bumper traffic, for just once, go easy... one
> >>>> day or just one stretch where you regularly face the brakes problem...
> >>>> when traffic starts moving, go relaxed.. let a car cut in front of you
> >>>> if he really wants to cut his lane..
>
> >>>> And do note down how regularly did the pedal go hard comparing to your
> >>>> earlier regular routine...
>
> >>>> --
> >>>>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>> Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
> >>>> To post to this group, send email to
> >>>> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>>> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >>>> .
> >>>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> >>> --
> >>>   Nitin Kumar
> >>> Database Administrator
> >>> MphasiS, An HP Company
> >>> Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> >>> --
> >>>   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>> Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to
> >>> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> .
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> >>   --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Punto Users Group India" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to
> >> punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com<punto-users-group-india%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Nitin Kumar
> > Database Administrator
> > MphasiS, An HP Company
> > Cell: +91-9711009862
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Punto Users Group India" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.
>
> --
> Regards,
> AnÐy
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Punto Users Group India" group.
> To post to this group, send email to punto-users...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to punto-users-group...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.

Amogh Chaphalkar

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May 13, 2010, 3:13:02 AM5/13/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Good !!

Vishwas, I am happy (and I am sure everybody here shares the same sentiment) : that your problem has been resolved and you are happy with the car !! 

 I had plenty of discussions with Aashay (ChaOs) and Abdul (Jumu) on the phone about this issue. And all of us had reached a common conclusion that a little bit of change in the driving style would get rid of this "problem" (if i can call it that)

Vishwas : just would add one thing : GO OUT THERE AND ENJOY THE CAR !! :)

Amogh

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:20 PM, VIshwas <vbha...@gmail.com> wrote:
Guys,

I tweaked my driving style to not let the engine fall below the idle
RPM and viola no problem with brakes (with/without AC).
The key is to press the clutch fully and break if the RPM is going
below idle RPM.
Thanks Amogh for this tip.

By the way I am really enjoying driving this thing, its absolute
bliss :)


Gautam Khadse

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May 13, 2010, 3:47:00 AM5/13/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Awesome ... and we shall rest the case ..... well done vishal .. thats the way aha aha .. i like it aha aha !

AnanÐ

unread,
May 13, 2010, 4:55:03 AM5/13/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
Vishwas,

Happy to note ur enjoyin yor car now....

Nitin Kumar

unread,
May 13, 2010, 5:47:46 AM5/13/10
to punto-users...@googlegroups.com
I also tried same trick and found it usefull. But I am confused why this trick is required while AC is ON.
 
I tried, i10, Santro, Swift, Wagon R and City.... this is not the case with them.
 
Only reason I could find is, big booster which is helpfull for high speed braking (something good with ABS).
 
Nitin

CHA0S

unread,
May 13, 2010, 5:55:12 AM5/13/10
to Punto Users Group India
Most of these new cars in the market are a lot different than the cars
sold 5 yrs back!!!

Then drive by wire was just in our country... I think, ford fiesta &
skoda* first cars with it.. (dont know much on skoda)

Now the ECU, Drive by wire throttle & other technology are a lot
advanced, thanks to FIAT, making it possible for US!!

Most of us are not used to electric throttle's/brakes (drive by wire
tech) (mostly cable throttle users here), and the cars with cable
throttle's have a simple ECU (basic mpfi) that just did the job 7-10
yrs back.. (tata, maruti, hyundai)

Once you figure out how to drive the new tech.. its a lot easy to use
it in our advantage rather than hold us back..

Fiat's new cars in india is old in Europe, but in india I guess after
skoda, FIAT is the most modern car technologically (might be before
recent polo, and other launches coming to meet tech in punto)
excluding beamer's merc's, etc.. they dont fit here

Takes time figuring it out... how to use it..

VIshwas

unread,
May 13, 2010, 9:01:06 AM5/13/10
to Punto Users Group India
Thanks all of you for the troubleshooting. Now I know if any issue
first check here and then take it to the service center!

PS: Amogh, I am enjoying driving to the the fullest. My wifes
surprised why I wake up early, its actually the excitment that I can
wake up and drive her again...

Cheers,

Mohit

unread,
May 16, 2010, 1:37:57 PM5/16/10
to Punto Users Group India
Nitin,

Are you able to fix up the issue with the change in driving pattern?
Well, I tried today and at times was successful, at times, I forgot
and the same thing happened.

Its kind of scary.

Mohit
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/punto-users-group-india?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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