And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky
design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
(https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I
actually start reading messages.
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> wrote:
> I say this as a regular user of PS:1's mailing lists and as a person who
> prefers mailing lists for getting things done.
> And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky
> design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
> blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
> (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
> seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I
> actually start reading messages.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pumping Station: One Public" group.
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I agree. I am usually a lurker, but a lazy one. I only read what comes to
my inbox...having a forum would be nice, but i would get lazy and stop
going to it.
Dan Delaney / loclhst
On Sep 6, 2012 9:17 PM, "eviljoel" <evilj...@linux.com> wrote:
> As long as all the forum posts end up in my G-mail Inbox, that is
> fine. If that doesn't happen, based on past experience, I won't read
> it.
> - eviljoel
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>
> wrote:
> > I say this as a regular user of PS:1's mailing lists and as a person who
> > prefers mailing lists for getting things done.
> > And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky
> > design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
> > blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
> > (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
> > seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I
> > actually start reading messages.
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Pumping Station: One Public" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> pumping-station-one-public+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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> --
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I'm with you. But because our community splits down the technical /
artistic type who don't live in their mail program, half the users are
like "mailing list wat"
> I agree. I am usually a lurker, but a lazy one. I only read what comes
> to my inbox...having a forum would be nice, but i would get lazy and
> stop going to it.
> As long as all the forum posts end up in my G-mail Inbox, that is
> fine. If that doesn't happen, based on past experience, I won't read
> it.
> - eviljoel
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Rhys Rhaven
> <r...@rhavenindustrys.com <mailto:r...@rhavenindustrys.com>> wrote:
> > I say this as a regular user of PS:1's mailing lists and as a
> person who
> > prefers mailing lists for getting things done.
> > And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is
> so clunky
> > design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
> > blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
> > (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
> > seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages
> and when I
> > actually start reading messages.
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups "Pumping Station: One Public" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com>.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> pumping-station-one-public+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:pumping-station-one-public%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
> > For more options, visit this group at
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> --
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I know I wasn't with you on the VOIP phone thing, but I think even
artistic types should know what a mailing list is by now. If they
don't, they should learn.
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> wrote:
> I'm with you. But because our community splits down the technical / artistic
> type who don't live in their mail program, half the users are like "mailing
> list wat"
> On 09/06/2012 09:33 PM, Dan Delaney wrote:
> I agree. I am usually a lurker, but a lazy one. I only read what comes to my
> inbox...having a forum would be nice, but i would get lazy and stop going to
> it.
> Dan Delaney / loclhst
> On Sep 6, 2012 9:17 PM, "eviljoel" <evilj...@linux.com> wrote:
>> Hey Rhys,
>> As long as all the forum posts end up in my G-mail Inbox, that is
>> fine. If that doesn't happen, based on past experience, I won't read
>> it.
>> - eviljoel
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I say this as a regular user of PS:1's mailing lists and as a person who
>> > prefers mailing lists for getting things done.
>> > And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky
>> > design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
>> > blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
>> > (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
>> > seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I
>> > actually start reading messages.
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "Pumping Station: One Public" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to
>> > pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > pumping-station-one-public+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/pumping-station-one-public?hl=en.
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> For more options, visit this group at
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> --
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> --
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> I know I wasn't with you on the VOIP phone thing, but I think even
> artistic types should know what a mailing list is by now. If they
> don't, they should learn.
> Later,
> eviljoel
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> wrote:
>> I'm with you. But because our community splits down the technical / artistic
>> type who don't live in their mail program, half the users are like "mailing
>> list wat"
>> On 09/06/2012 09:33 PM, Dan Delaney wrote:
>> I agree. I am usually a lurker, but a lazy one. I only read what comes to my
>> inbox...having a forum would be nice, but i would get lazy and stop going to
>> it.
>>> As long as all the forum posts end up in my G-mail Inbox, that is
>>> fine. If that doesn't happen, based on past experience, I won't read
>>> it.
>>> - eviljoel
>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I say this as a regular user of PS:1's mailing lists and as a person who
>>>> prefers mailing lists for getting things done.
>>>> And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky
>>>> design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
>>>> blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
>>>> (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
>>>> seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I
>>>> actually start reading messages.
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Pumping Station: One Public" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>> pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> pumping-station-one-public+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/pumping-station-one-public?hl=en.
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>> --
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>> --
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>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/pumping-station-one-public?hl=en.
> I know I wasn't with you on the VOIP phone thing, but I think even
> artistic types should know what a mailing list is by now. If they
> don't, they should learn.
> Later,
> eviljoel
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> wrote:
> I'm with you. But because our community splits down the technical / artistic
> type who don't live in their mail program, half the users are like "mailing
> list wat"
> On 09/06/2012 09:33 PM, Dan Delaney wrote:
> I agree. I am usually a lurker, but a lazy one. I only read what comes to my
> inbox...having a forum would be nice, but i would get lazy and stop going to
> it.
> And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky
> design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
> blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
> (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
> seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I
> actually start reading messages.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Pumping Station: One Public" group.
> To post to this group, send email topumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/pumping-station-one-public?hl=en.
> --
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Civility? I have to deal with the neckbeard stereotype quite often. And
one of the things I hate is technical people accepting whatever painful
status quo they went through because they work in a tech field, and then
foisting it on everyone else. "N00bs should learn." Learning is great if
its something useful to learn. But tell with an honest face that mailing
lists are an efficient means of communication in a mixed community. We
have so many more choices. I'm not even against being mean to the n00bs
come to that. Just such an unproductive mentality.
So I reply with as close to as accuracy as I would in real life, which
is some variation of fuck you. Look, I even put an adorable little pony
in the background to be a bit nicer.
> Um, did this cross the bounds of civility, or just the bounds of
> perversity? If it's the latter, awesome, if the former, not so much.
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com
> <mailto:r...@rhavenindustrys.com>> wrote:
> Joel:
> On 09/06/2012 10:39 PM, eviljoel wrote:
>> Hey Rhys,
>> I know I wasn't with you on the VOIP phone thing, but I think even
>> artistic types should know what a mailing list is by now. If they
>> don't, they should learn.
>> Later,
>> eviljoel
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> <mailto:r...@rhavenindustrys.com> wrote:
>>> I'm with you. But because our community splits down the technical / artistic
>>> type who don't live in their mail program, half the users are like "mailing
>>> list wat"
>>> On 09/06/2012 09:33 PM, Dan Delaney wrote:
>>> I agree. I am usually a lurker, but a lazy one. I only read what comes to my
>>> inbox...having a forum would be nice, but i would get lazy and stop going to
>>> it.
>>>> As long as all the forum posts end up in my G-mail Inbox, that is
>>>> fine. If that doesn't happen, based on past experience, I won't read
>>>> it.
>>>> - eviljoel
>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> <mailto:r...@rhavenindustrys.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I say this as a regular user of PS:1's mailing lists and as a person who
>>>>> prefers mailing lists for getting things done.
>>>>> And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky
>>>>> design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
>>>>> blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
>>>>> (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
>>>>> seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I
>>>>> actually start reading messages.
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Pumping Station: One Public" group.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>> pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com <mailto:pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com>.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>> pumping-station-one-public+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com <mailto:pumping-station-one-public+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/pumping-station-one-public?hl=en.
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>>>> pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com <mailto:pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com>.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> pumping-station-one-public+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com <mailto:pumping-station-one-public+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/pumping-station-one-public?hl=en.
>>> --
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>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Pumping Station: One Public" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com
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> -- > blogs:
> http://johnstoner.wordpress.com/ > 'In knowledge is power; in wisdom, humility.'
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> Civility? I have to deal with the neckbeard stereotype quite often. And
> one of the things I hate is technical people accepting whatever painful
> status quo they went through because they work in a tech field, and then
> foisting it on everyone else. "N00bs should learn." Learning is great if
> its something useful to learn. But tell with an honest face that mailing
> lists are an efficient means of communication in a mixed community. We have
> so many more choices. I'm not even against being mean to the n00bs come to
> that. Just such an unproductive mentality.
> So I reply with as close to as accuracy as I would in real life, which is
> some variation of fuck you. Look, I even put an adorable little pony in the
> background to be a bit nicer.
> On 09/06/2012 11:21 PM, John Stoner wrote:
> ??
> Um, did this cross the bounds of civility, or just the bounds of
> perversity? If it's the latter, awesome, if the former, not so much.
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
>> Joel:
>> On 09/06/2012 10:39 PM, eviljoel wrote:
>> Hey Rhys,
>> I know I wasn't with you on the VOIP phone thing, but I think even
>> artistic types should know what a mailing list is by now. If they
>> don't, they should learn.
>> Later,
>> eviljoel
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> wrote:
>> I'm with you. But because our community splits down the technical / artistic
>> type who don't live in their mail program, half the users are like "mailing
>> list wat"
>> On 09/06/2012 09:33 PM, Dan Delaney wrote:
>> I agree. I am usually a lurker, but a lazy one. I only read what comes to my
>> inbox...having a forum would be nice, but i would get lazy and stop going to
>> it.
>> And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky
>> design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
>> blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
>> (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
>> seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I
>> actually start reading messages.
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Pumping Station: One Public" group.
>> To post to this group, send email topumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email topumping-station-one-public+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/pumping-station-one-public?hl=en.
>> --
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>> --
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>> --
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> --
> blogs:
> http://johnstoner.wordpress.com/ > 'In knowledge is power; in wisdom, humility.'
> --
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I'm not convinced that a message board would be any less opaque to someone
who doesn't handle mailing lists well. Is it the technology or the volume
that causes the trouble?
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
> I'm with you. But because our community splits down the technical /
> artistic type who don't live in their mail program, half the users are like
> "mailing list wat"
> On 09/06/2012 09:33 PM, Dan Delaney wrote:
> I agree. I am usually a lurker, but a lazy one. I only read what comes to
> my inbox...having a forum would be nice, but i would get lazy and stop
> going to it.
> Dan Delaney / loclhst
> On Sep 6, 2012 9:17 PM, "eviljoel" <evilj...@linux.com> wrote:
>> Hey Rhys,
>> As long as all the forum posts end up in my G-mail Inbox, that is
>> fine. If that doesn't happen, based on past experience, I won't read
>> it.
>> - eviljoel
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I say this as a regular user of PS:1's mailing lists and as a person who
>> > prefers mailing lists for getting things done.
>> > And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky
>> > design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
>> > blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
>> > (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
>> > seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I
>> > actually start reading messages.
>> > --
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>I'm not convinced that a message board would be any less opaque to someone
>who doesn't handle mailing lists well. Is it the technology or the volume
>that causes the trouble?
Googlegroups can be viewed as a message board or a mailing list.
Am I missing something here?
GoogleGroups can be viewed as something like a message board, but it's a
pale imitation. It doesn't have real message threading or anything
resembling sub-boards or divided-by-topic sections.
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Ron Bean
<makersp...@rbean.users.panix.com>wrote:
> >I'm not convinced that a message board would be any less opaque to someone
> >who doesn't handle mailing lists well. Is it the technology or the volume
> >that causes the trouble?
> Googlegroups can be viewed as a message board or a mailing list.
> Am I missing something here?
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After talking with hackerspaces that have forums instead of mailing lists,
I'd say stick with what we have. Forums aren't a better solution.
Forums lead to a diaspora of discussion, mailing lists are chaotic, but
everything is focused in one place.
I also don't understand how forums are significantly more user friendly
than google groups (i'd say they're about equivalent). How is forcing
existing users to learn a new interface a good thing?
If we had 5k users, then I'd see the point in splitting the conversation up
into forums, but we only have like 500 people on our largest list (public).
*Sacha De'Angeli*
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Laurie J. Rich <knitmeap...@gmail.com>wrote:
> GoogleGroups can be viewed as something like a message board, but it's a
> pale imitation. It doesn't have real message threading or anything
> resembling sub-boards or divided-by-topic sections.
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Ron Bean <makersp...@rbean.users.panix.com
> > wrote:
>> >I'm not convinced that a message board would be any less opaque to
>> someone
>> >who doesn't handle mailing lists well. Is it the technology or the
>> volume
>> >that causes the trouble?
>> Googlegroups can be viewed as a message board or a mailing list.
>> Am I missing something here?
>> --
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>GoogleGroups can be viewed as something like a message board, but it's a
>pale imitation. It doesn't have real message threading or anything
>resembling sub-boards or divided-by-topic sections.
Is there a message board system that can also be viewed as a mailing list?
IMHO the problem isn't learning a new interface. The problem is that each message board has to be "pinged" separately every time you want to read it. If you're on more than a few, that can be a lot of work, especially if some of them don't have new messages every day. It's much easier if it just shows up in your email.
I don't want to change any of that. I'm with you, I like having
everything in one place. I just am tired of conversations happening on
the mailing list and then that knowledge just getting buried. We don't
move it to the wiki, we don't save if in any way really. And theres the
fun thing where inline images (attachments too?) are not shown on google
groups.
We naturally seem to do everything in conversations. If thats the way we
work, cool, I'm not trying to change that. How do we distill that
information into searchable/browseable info? I thought the ability on a
forum to make a thread sticky and the ability to tag posts could make a
pretty nice cataloguing system.
>> GoogleGroups can be viewed as something like a message board, but it's a
>> pale imitation. It doesn't have real message threading or anything
>> resembling sub-boards or divided-by-topic sections.
> Is there a message board system that can also be viewed as a mailing > list?
> IMHO the problem isn't learning a new interface. The problem is that > each message board has to be "pinged" separately every time you want to > read it. If you're on more than a few, that can be a lot of work, > especially if some of them don't have new messages every day. It's much > easier if it just shows up in your email.
> I don't want to change any of that. I'm with you, I like having
> everything in one place. I just am tired of conversations happening on
> the mailing list and then that knowledge just getting buried. We don't
> move it to the wiki, we don't save if in any way really. And theres the
> fun thing where inline images (attachments too?) are not shown on google
> groups.
> We naturally seem to do everything in conversations. If thats the way we
> work, cool, I'm not trying to change that. How do we distill that
> information into searchable/browseable info? I thought the ability on a
> forum to make a thread sticky and the ability to tag posts could make a
> pretty nice cataloguing system.
> On 09/07/2012 10:30 AM, Ron Bean wrote:
> >> GoogleGroups can be viewed as something like a message board, but it's a
> >> pale imitation. It doesn't have real message threading or anything
> >> resembling sub-boards or divided-by-topic sections.
> > Is there a message board system that can also be viewed as a mailing
> > list?
> > IMHO the problem isn't learning a new interface. The problem is that
> > each message board has to be "pinged" separately every time you want to
> > read it. If you're on more than a few, that can be a lot of work,
> > especially if some of them don't have new messages every day. It's much
> > easier if it just shows up in your email.
> --
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On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:35 PM, John Stoner <johnston...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe a bot that listens and some tags that tell it 'wiki this content on
> a page named x?'
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
>> I don't want to change any of that. I'm with you, I like having
>> everything in one place. I just am tired of conversations happening on
>> the mailing list and then that knowledge just getting buried. We don't
>> move it to the wiki, we don't save if in any way really. And theres the
>> fun thing where inline images (attachments too?) are not shown on google
>> groups.
>> We naturally seem to do everything in conversations. If thats the way we
>> work, cool, I'm not trying to change that. How do we distill that
>> information into searchable/browseable info? I thought the ability on a
>> forum to make a thread sticky and the ability to tag posts could make a
>> pretty nice cataloguing system.
>> On 09/07/2012 10:30 AM, Ron Bean wrote:
>> >> GoogleGroups can be viewed as something like a message board, but it's
>> a
>> >> pale imitation. It doesn't have real message threading or anything
>> >> resembling sub-boards or divided-by-topic sections.
>> > Is there a message board system that can also be viewed as a mailing
>> > list?
>> > IMHO the problem isn't learning a new interface. The problem is that
>> > each message board has to be "pinged" separately every time you want to
>> > read it. If you're on more than a few, that can be a lot of work,
>> > especially if some of them don't have new messages every day. It's much
>> > easier if it just shows up in your email.
>> --
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For me it becomes signal to noise ratio. Too much noise not enough information. Tech or volume is a false dichotomy.
I bet that there are a lot of other reasons too. Like being tethered to a device, relevancy, convenience etc.
I prefer emails from a mailing list because my everything goes to email with tags and I don't have to switch apps. Every time I switch apps, I have to switch a mental context to match the new app. That causes fatigue by having an increase in the number of choices.
At present, there is no app that provides more information for the same or less mental cost, except some of eric's bots which answer very specific questions about current activity in the space.
Unless there is a mode of communication that aggregates what is relevant to me, I don't see any benefit to changing to another app.
During MakerFaire, I was forced to use Facebook, twitter, google+, 5 more mailing lists, and several blogs. I hated it. Big time suck. In the end, it was broadcast news that needed to be sent out.
On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:38 AM, "Laurie J. Rich" <knitmeap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not convinced that a message board would be any less opaque to someone who doesn't handle mailing lists well. Is it the technology or the volume that causes the trouble?
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> wrote:
> I'm with you. But because our community splits down the technical / artistic type who don't live in their mail program, half the users are like "mailing list wat"
> On 09/06/2012 09:33 PM, Dan Delaney wrote:
>> I agree. I am usually a lurker, but a lazy one. I only read what comes to my inbox...having a forum would be nice, but i would get lazy and stop going to it.
>> As long as all the forum posts end up in my G-mail Inbox, that is
>> fine. If that doesn't happen, based on past experience, I won't read
>> it.
>> - eviljoel
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> wrote:
>> > I say this as a regular user of PS:1's mailing lists and as a person who
>> > prefers mailing lists for getting things done.
>> > And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky
>> > design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and
>> > blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one,
>> > (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just
>> > seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I
>> > actually start reading messages.
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pumping Station: One Public" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to pumping-station-one-public@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to pumping-station-one-public+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pumping-station-one-public?hl=en.
>> --
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> I think this mailing list is pretty fool proof. I still find myself
> searching for certain features on message boards from time to time.
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:35 PM, John Stoner <johnston...@gmail.com
> <mailto:johnston...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Maybe a bot that listens and some tags that tell it 'wiki this
> content on a page named x?'
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Rhys Rhaven
> <r...@rhavenindustrys.com <mailto:r...@rhavenindustrys.com>> wrote:
> I don't want to change any of that. I'm with you, I like having
> everything in one place. I just am tired of conversations
> happening on
> the mailing list and then that knowledge just getting buried.
> We don't
> move it to the wiki, we don't save if in any way really. And
> theres the
> fun thing where inline images (attachments too?) are not shown
> on google
> groups.
> We naturally seem to do everything in conversations. If thats
> the way we
> work, cool, I'm not trying to change that. How do we distill that
> information into searchable/browseable info? I thought the
> ability on a
> forum to make a thread sticky and the ability to tag posts
> could make a
> pretty nice cataloguing system.
> On 09/07/2012 10:30 AM, Ron Bean wrote:
> >> GoogleGroups can be viewed as something like a message
> board, but it's a
> >> pale imitation. It doesn't have real message threading or
> anything
> >> resembling sub-boards or divided-by-topic sections.
> > Is there a message board system that can also be viewed as a
> mailing
> > list?
> > IMHO the problem isn't learning a new interface. The problem
> is that
> > each message board has to be "pinged" separately every time
> you want to
> > read it. If you're on more than a few, that can be a lot of
> work,
> > especially if some of them don't have new messages every
> day. It's much
> > easier if it just shows up in your email.
> --
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> -- > blogs:
> http://johnstoner.wordpress.com/ > 'In knowledge is power; in wisdom, humility.'
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> GoogleGroups can be viewed as something like a message board, but it's a pale imitation. It doesn't have real message threading or anything resembling sub-boards or divided-by-topic sections.
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Ron Bean <makersp...@rbean.users.panix.com> wrote:
> >I'm not convinced that a message board would be any less opaque to someone
> >who doesn't handle mailing lists well. Is it the technology or the volume
> >that causes the trouble?
> Googlegroups can be viewed as a message board or a mailing list.
> Am I missing something here?
> --
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On Sep 7, 2012, at 11:19 AM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com> wrote:
...
> We naturally seem to do everything in conversations. If thats the way we
> work, cool, I'm not trying to change that. How do we distill that
> information into searchable/browseable info?
Knowledge management.
Not forgetting that any info pipe is a map that each of us asks questions of according to our interest in the moment.
It involve metadata about the posts, lists and threads, generated word and phrase tags, selectors based on personal interests and action necessity, the ability to reorder priority within a personal set of results, and personal scoring of the results based on all of the above, to set alert thresholds, so that I can see what I asked to see by setting a parameter or two, when I'm busy, and relax the threshold when I'm bored.
> I thought the ability on a
> forum to make a thread sticky and the ability to tag posts could make a
> pretty nice cataloguing system.
> On 09/07/2012 10:30 AM, Ron Bean wrote:
>>> GoogleGroups can be viewed as something like a message board, but it's a
>>> pale imitation. It doesn't have real message threading or anything
>>> resembling sub-boards or divided-by-topic sections.
>> Is there a message board system that can also be viewed as a mailing >> list?
>> IMHO the problem isn't learning a new interface. The problem is that >> each message board has to be "pinged" separately every time you want to >> read it. If you're on more than a few, that can be a lot of work, >> especially if some of them don't have new messages every day. It's much >> easier if it just shows up in your email.
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I would love a forum for our discussions compared to google groups. I hate google groups for technical and project based discussion, as you said, the discussion gets buried in the stupid linear organization of google groups. I really like the looks of vanillaforums. One other forum software package I like is: phpBB <https://www.phpbb.com/> we have used it for a number of years on http://www.phlatforum.com/ to discuss highly technical projects and topics.
> And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky > design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and > blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one, > (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just > seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I > actually start reading messages.
The problem with mailing lists and BBs (PHP or non-) is that information is sorted by chronology, not relevance. If you're lucky, something that interests you interests other people too and the thread will be at the top; if you're unlucky, it's buried in the noise and may never be dredged out except by carefully crafted search.
Wikis are better in this regard, but it's hard to discover information on them unless the wiki writers made careful effort to make it as discoverable as possible. We've all had the experience of finding something in an orphan wiki page on some project's dev wiki.
The only pushes toward something better that I can think of still suffer from the effort hump: a wiki or mailing list does or can be abused to do 80% of what someone needs, so it's hard to justify switching to something unknown for the remote chance of doing 90% and a large risk of wasted time and effort.
> I would love a forum for our discussions compared to google groups. I hate google groups for technical and project based discussion, as you said, the discussion gets buried in the stupid linear organization of google groups. I really like the looks of vanillaforums. One other forum software package I like is: phpBB we have used it for a number of years on http://www.phlatforum.com/ to discuss highly technical projects and topics.
> I relish the day we move away from google groups.
> Dan
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 9:11:53 PM UTC-5, Rhys Rhaven wrote:
> I say this as a regular user of PS:1's mailing lists and as a person who > prefers mailing lists for getting things done.
> And while I like OpenAtrium (expecially the new version) it is so clunky > design wise with all the "dashboards" for you and for each group and > blogs/todo/tasks being all separate. Using the SchoolFactory's one, > (https://atrium.schoolfactory.org make an account to test), it just > seems like a lot of time between when I want to read messages and when I > actually start reading messages.
