On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:26 PM, geezer1 <dj.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 2:24 pm, onecave...@aol.com wrote:
> > Im sure someone has tried it already?
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Forgetting the politics of this, in life there will always be steps
back amongst the steps forward, for which, the best advice comes from
Churchill "if you are going through Hell, keep going."
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Saw the thing on DangerRoom where Stratasys revoked the lease on the
guys printer who was going to build a 3d printed gun, on the assumption
that it would be illegal (all plastic guns pretty sure are illegal).
Is this really something we as a society want to make? All I can imagine
is nefarious uses for this, and I say that as a person who would love to
see 50% of the country with concealed carry. How on earth can this make
the world safer?
> Forgetting the politics of this, in life there will always be steps
> back amongst the steps forward, for which, the best advice comes from
> Churchill "if you are going through Hell, keep going."
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This one too: http://haveblue.org/
>> I believe they're both firing .22LR rounds. Just about as low power a
>> cartridge as you can get in mainstream use.
>>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:26 PM, geezer1 <dj.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Oct 2, 2:24 pm, onecave...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> Im sure someone has tried it already?
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Glocks are plastic (with the possible exception of the firing chamber, I
assume that requires metal at least for durability). The guns he was
making were probably less plastic than a glock. The basic idea is a lower
receiver 3d printed (which is "the gun" as far as the law is concerned) and
stock parts bolted on to that.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
> Saw the thing on DangerRoom where Stratasys revoked the lease on the
> guys printer who was going to build a 3d printed gun, on the assumption
> that it would be illegal (all plastic guns pretty sure are illegal).
> Is this really something we as a society want to make? All I can imagine
> is nefarious uses for this, and I say that as a person who would love to
> see 50% of the country with concealed carry. How on earth can this make
> the world safer?
> On 10/02/2012 04:46 PM, Joe Born wrote:
> > Forgetting the politics of this, in life there will always be steps
> > back amongst the steps forward, for which, the best advice comes from
> > Churchill "if you are going through Hell, keep going."
> > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This one too: http://haveblue.org/
> >> I believe they're both firing .22LR rounds. Just about as low power a
> >> cartridge as you can get in mainstream use.
> >>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:26 PM, geezer1 <dj.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Oct 2, 2:24 pm, onecave...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>> Im sure someone has tried it already?
> >>>> --
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Thats fine, and thats just us messing around with whatever we want. They
still show up in a metal detector. But I can't imagine any use for a one
or two shot all plastic gun except for assassinations.
> Glocks are plastic (with the possible exception of the firing chamber,
> I assume that requires metal at least for durability). The guns he
> was making were probably less plastic than a glock. The basic idea is
> a lower receiver 3d printed (which is "the gun" as far as the law is
> concerned) and stock parts bolted on to that.
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com
> <mailto:r...@rhavenindustrys.com>> wrote:
> Saw the thing on DangerRoom where Stratasys revoked the lease on the
> guys printer who was going to build a 3d printed gun, on the
> assumption
> that it would be illegal (all plastic guns pretty sure are illegal).
> Is this really something we as a society want to make? All I can
> imagine
> is nefarious uses for this, and I say that as a person who would
> love to
> see 50% of the country with concealed carry. How on earth can this
> make
> the world safer?
> On 10/02/2012 04:46 PM, Joe Born wrote:
> > Forgetting the politics of this, in life there will always be steps
> > back amongst the steps forward, for which, the best advice comes
> from
> > Churchill "if you are going through Hell, keep going."
> > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com
> <mailto:tim.say...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> This one too: http://haveblue.org/
> >> I believe they're both firing .22LR rounds. Just about as low
> power a
> >> cartridge as you can get in mainstream use.
> >>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:26 PM, geezer1 <dj.c...@gmail.com
> <mailto:dj.c...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>> On Oct 2, 2:24 pm, onecave...@aol.com
> <mailto:onecave...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Im sure someone has tried it already?
> >>>> --
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I think the ideal is to move in the direction of a world where people can
meet their needs more easily and with less interference from others, so
there's less need for violence in the first place. Putting industrial
capacities in most people's hands changes a lot of things--it makes these
sort of things possible.
Hopefully it makes them less necessary. Hopefully.
I look at it as less a matter of 'post-scarcity' and more pushing the
scarcity down the abstraction stack and out of the locus of power. Or
something like that--a lot of my thoughts in this direction are half
formed. I really need to read Diamond Age sometime.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
> Saw the thing on DangerRoom where Stratasys revoked the lease on the
> guys printer who was going to build a 3d printed gun, on the assumption
> that it would be illegal (all plastic guns pretty sure are illegal).
> Is this really something we as a society want to make? All I can imagine
> is nefarious uses for this, and I say that as a person who would love to
> see 50% of the country with concealed carry. How on earth can this make
> the world safer?
> On 10/02/2012 04:46 PM, Joe Born wrote:
> > Forgetting the politics of this, in life there will always be steps
> > back amongst the steps forward, for which, the best advice comes from
> > Churchill "if you are going through Hell, keep going."
> > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This one too: http://haveblue.org/
> >> I believe they're both firing .22LR rounds. Just about as low power a
> >> cartridge as you can get in mainstream use.
> >>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:26 PM, geezer1 <dj.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Oct 2, 2:24 pm, onecave...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>> Im sure someone has tried it already?
> >>>> --
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I believe that much like NASA, when the day comes that a 3d printed gun
more or less right off the printer bed is capable of killing someone who
isn't pulling the trigger, the achievements that made that possible will
have improved our lives in many ways.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
> Thats fine, and thats just us messing around with whatever we want. They
> still show up in a metal detector. But I can't imagine any use for a one or
> two shot all plastic gun except for assassinations.
> On 10/02/2012 04:53 PM, Tim Saylor wrote:
> Glocks are plastic (with the possible exception of the firing chamber, I
> assume that requires metal at least for durability). The guns he was
> making were probably less plastic than a glock. The basic idea is a lower
> receiver 3d printed (which is "the gun" as far as the law is concerned) and
> stock parts bolted on to that.
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
>> Saw the thing on DangerRoom where Stratasys revoked the lease on the
>> guys printer who was going to build a 3d printed gun, on the assumption
>> that it would be illegal (all plastic guns pretty sure are illegal).
>> Is this really something we as a society want to make? All I can imagine
>> is nefarious uses for this, and I say that as a person who would love to
>> see 50% of the country with concealed carry. How on earth can this make
>> the world safer?
>> On 10/02/2012 04:46 PM, Joe Born wrote:
>> > Forgetting the politics of this, in life there will always be steps
>> > back amongst the steps forward, for which, the best advice comes from
>> > Churchill "if you are going through Hell, keep going."
>> > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> This one too: http://haveblue.org/
>> >> I believe they're both firing .22LR rounds. Just about as low power a
>> >> cartridge as you can get in mainstream use.
>> >>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:26 PM, geezer1 <dj.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> On Oct 2, 2:24 pm, onecave...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>>> Im sure someone has tried it already?
>> >>>> --
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On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I believe that much like NASA, when the day comes that a 3d printed gun
> more or less right off the printer bed is capable of killing someone who
> isn't pulling the trigger, the achievements that made that possible will
> have improved our lives in many ways.
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
>> Thats fine, and thats just us messing around with whatever we want.
>> They still show up in a metal detector. But I can't imagine any use for a
>> one or two shot all plastic gun except for assassinations.
>> On 10/02/2012 04:53 PM, Tim Saylor wrote:
>> Glocks are plastic (with the possible exception of the firing chamber, I
>> assume that requires metal at least for durability). The guns he was
>> making were probably less plastic than a glock. The basic idea is a lower
>> receiver 3d printed (which is "the gun" as far as the law is concerned) and
>> stock parts bolted on to that.
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
>>> Saw the thing on DangerRoom where Stratasys revoked the lease on the
>>> guys printer who was going to build a 3d printed gun, on the assumption
>>> that it would be illegal (all plastic guns pretty sure are illegal).
>>> Is this really something we as a society want to make? All I can imagine
>>> is nefarious uses for this, and I say that as a person who would love to
>>> see 50% of the country with concealed carry. How on earth can this make
>>> the world safer?
>>> On 10/02/2012 04:46 PM, Joe Born wrote:
>>> > Forgetting the politics of this, in life there will always be steps
>>> > back amongst the steps forward, for which, the best advice comes from
>>> > Churchill "if you are going through Hell, keep going."
>>> > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> This one too: http://haveblue.org/
>>> >> I believe they're both firing .22LR rounds. Just about as low power a
>>> >> cartridge as you can get in mainstream use.
>>> >>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:26 PM, geezer1 <dj.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>> On Oct 2, 2:24 pm, onecave...@aol.com wrote:
>>> >>>>> Im sure someone has tried it already?
>>> >>>> --
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On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:48 PM, David <Da...@midwestvisuals.com> wrote:
> I really dont see what the big deal is here. After all, you can make a
> firearm out of metal in a machine shop.
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I believe that much like NASA, when the day comes that a 3d printed gun
>> more or less right off the printer bed is capable of killing someone who
>> isn't pulling the trigger, the achievements that made that possible will
>> have improved our lives in many ways.
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
>>> Thats fine, and thats just us messing around with whatever we want.
>>> They still show up in a metal detector. But I can't imagine any use for a
>>> one or two shot all plastic gun except for assassinations.
>>> On 10/02/2012 04:53 PM, Tim Saylor wrote:
>>> Glocks are plastic (with the possible exception of the firing chamber, I
>>> assume that requires metal at least for durability). The guns he was
>>> making were probably less plastic than a glock. The basic idea is a lower
>>> receiver 3d printed (which is "the gun" as far as the law is concerned) and
>>> stock parts bolted on to that.
>>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
>>>> Saw the thing on DangerRoom where Stratasys revoked the lease on the
>>>> guys printer who was going to build a 3d printed gun, on the assumption
>>>> that it would be illegal (all plastic guns pretty sure are illegal).
>>>> Is this really something we as a society want to make? All I can imagine
>>>> is nefarious uses for this, and I say that as a person who would love to
>>>> see 50% of the country with concealed carry. How on earth can this make
>>>> the world safer?
>>>> On 10/02/2012 04:46 PM, Joe Born wrote:
>>>> > Forgetting the politics of this, in life there will always be steps
>>>> > back amongst the steps forward, for which, the best advice comes from
>>>> > Churchill "if you are going through Hell, keep going."
>>>> > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> This one too: http://haveblue.org/
>>>> >> I believe they're both firing .22LR rounds. Just about as low power
>>>> a
>>>> >> cartridge as you can get in mainstream use.
>>>> >>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:26 PM, geezer1 <dj.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> On Oct 2, 2:24 pm, onecave...@aol.com wrote:
>>>> >>>>> Im sure someone has tried it already?
>>>> >>>> --
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Wether it's CNC or a 3D printer it still requires knowledge. It would be
easier and cheaper for me to run to a gun show than it would be buy and
learn to use the machinery to make a weapon. No matter how you look at it,
if there is a will there is a way.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:57 PM, John Stoner <johnston...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is anyone trying to put a machine shop on every desktop? Or make them easy
> to replicate?
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:48 PM, David <Da...@midwestvisuals.com> wrote:
>> I really dont see what the big deal is here. After all, you can make a
>> firearm out of metal in a machine shop.
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I believe that much like NASA, when the day comes that a 3d printed gun
>>> more or less right off the printer bed is capable of killing someone who
>>> isn't pulling the trigger, the achievements that made that possible will
>>> have improved our lives in many ways.
>>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
>>>> Thats fine, and thats just us messing around with whatever we want.
>>>> They still show up in a metal detector. But I can't imagine any use for a
>>>> one or two shot all plastic gun except for assassinations.
>>>> On 10/02/2012 04:53 PM, Tim Saylor wrote:
>>>> Glocks are plastic (with the possible exception of the firing chamber,
>>>> I assume that requires metal at least for durability). The guns he was
>>>> making were probably less plastic than a glock. The basic idea is a lower
>>>> receiver 3d printed (which is "the gun" as far as the law is concerned) and
>>>> stock parts bolted on to that.
>>>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Rhys Rhaven <r...@rhavenindustrys.com>wrote:
>>>>> Saw the thing on DangerRoom where Stratasys revoked the lease on the
>>>>> guys printer who was going to build a 3d printed gun, on the assumption
>>>>> that it would be illegal (all plastic guns pretty sure are illegal).
>>>>> Is this really something we as a society want to make? All I can
>>>>> imagine
>>>>> is nefarious uses for this, and I say that as a person who would love
>>>>> to
>>>>> see 50% of the country with concealed carry. How on earth can this make
>>>>> the world safer?
>>>>> On 10/02/2012 04:46 PM, Joe Born wrote:
>>>>> > Forgetting the politics of this, in life there will always be steps
>>>>> > back amongst the steps forward, for which, the best advice comes from
>>>>> > Churchill "if you are going through Hell, keep going."
>>>>> > On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> This one too: http://haveblue.org/
>>>>> >> I believe they're both firing .22LR rounds. Just about as low
>>>>> power a
>>>>> >> cartridge as you can get in mainstream use.
>>>>> >>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:26 PM, geezer1 <dj.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>> On Oct 2, 2:24 pm, onecave...@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> >>>>> Im sure someone has tried it already?
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Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com> writes:
>Glocks are plastic (with the possible exception of the firing chamber, I
>assume that requires metal at least for durability).
Yes, they have metal parts. The press went crazy about "plastic guns"
when they first came out, apparently nobody actually checked...
>The guns he was
>making were probably less plastic than a glock. The basic idea is a lower
>receiver 3d printed (which is "the gun" as far as the law is concerned) and
>stock parts bolted on to that.
The guys who had the Stratasys printer reposessed were talking about
printing an all-plastic gun (I'm not sure why).
John Stoner <johnston...@gmail.com> writes:
>Is anyone trying to put a machine shop on every desktop? Or make them easy
>to replicate?
You could buy a Harbor Freight lathe & mill for less than the price of a
Makerbot, and much less than the Stratasys printer. And it's not *that*
hard to make a gun with that kind of tooling. It does take some
intelligence, and some research. There are gunsmiths in Afghanistan who hand-build AK47s with less sophisticated tools.
The South American drug gangs are building their own *submarines*. They'd make their own guns if they had to, but there are easier ways to
obtain firearms.
<makersp...@rbean.users.panix.com> wrote:
> Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com> writes:
>>Glocks are plastic (with the possible exception of the firing chamber, I
>>assume that requires metal at least for durability).
> Yes, they have metal parts. The press went crazy about "plastic guns"
> when they first came out, apparently nobody actually checked...
>>The guns he was
>>making were probably less plastic than a glock. The basic idea is a lower
>>receiver 3d printed (which is "the gun" as far as the law is concerned) and
>>stock parts bolted on to that.
> The guys who had the Stratasys printer reposessed were talking about
> printing an all-plastic gun (I'm not sure why).
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As soon as the first gun is printed, the world economy will collapse,
as their will be no motivation for anyone to obey any law any longer,
and anarchy and destruction will rule.
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:30 PM, Ron Bean
> <makersp...@rbean.users.panix.com> wrote:
>> Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>Glocks are plastic (with the possible exception of the firing chamber, I
>>>assume that requires metal at least for durability).
>> Yes, they have metal parts. The press went crazy about "plastic guns"
>> when they first came out, apparently nobody actually checked...
>>>The guns he was
>>>making were probably less plastic than a glock. The basic idea is a lower
>>>receiver 3d printed (which is "the gun" as far as the law is concerned) and
>>>stock parts bolted on to that.
>> The guys who had the Stratasys printer reposessed were talking about
>> printing an all-plastic gun (I'm not sure why).
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I was there in the 1980's for another reason. We took a day trip to that village in khyber, and to jalilabad. I saw a workshop. No tables, there was a hole in the floor for seating, with a bunch of toothless guys hand filing enfield flying bolts. It was both interesting and terrifying at the same time.
The article is pretty much accurate.
On Oct 2, 2012, at 9:37 PM, Joe Kerman <jker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:30 PM, Ron Bean
> <makersp...@rbean.users.panix.com> wrote:
>> Tim Saylor <tim.say...@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Glocks are plastic (with the possible exception of the firing chamber, I
>>> assume that requires metal at least for durability).
>> Yes, they have metal parts. The press went crazy about "plastic guns"
>> when they first came out, apparently nobody actually checked...
>>> The guns he was
>>> making were probably less plastic than a glock. The basic idea is a lower
>>> receiver 3d printed (which is "the gun" as far as the law is concerned) and
>>> stock parts bolted on to that.
>> The guys who had the Stratasys printer reposessed were talking about
>> printing an all-plastic gun (I'm not sure why).
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> Check out the old movie "Carbine Williams," with Jimmy Stewart.
> If memory serves, it's about the guy who designed and built an early
> version of the M-1 carbine.
> While in prison.
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