Dear friends
A major energy company, which proposes to set up a very large liquified
petroleum gas tank, is going to fly a tethered balloon above the coastal
forest they would build their tank in/on The idea is to show what height
(hence how visible) the tank would be, relative to the remaining forest and
the adjacent Penobscot Bay, which is heavily used by windjammers and other
pleasure sailors.
Question: What is the best way for an independent assessment of the height
actually achieved by said balloon? It will be sent aloft near dawn on June
21st, weather permitting.
Ron
-- Ron Huber
Penobscot Bay Watch
web: www.penbay.org
Most any simple solution will use geometry to determine the length of a side of a right triangle. The approach you use depends on the tools you have and assumptions that can be made. If you can measure the angle between the horizon (assuming you are at sea level and want height above sea level)and the balloon using some sort of inclinometer (sometimes built into compasses but you can also make one with a protractor and a string with a weight) and measure the distance from the point directly under the balloon to the point where the angle was measured you can calculate the balloon's height. You can also calculate the height if you have a laser range-finder and can measure the distance to the balloon and measure the angle using the same method mentioned above. If my assumptions are not correct you can apply offsets. If you sketch a picture and draw a right-triangle on it this might make more sense. If it doesn't make sense or isn't appropriate for what you're trying to do let me know and I'll try to explain better or come up with alternative ideas. If you search for methods for measuring tree heights you'll see lots of great illustrations.
> Dear friends
> A major energy company, which proposes to set up a very large > liquified petroleum gas tank, is going to fly a tethered balloon above > the coastal forest they would build their tank in/on The idea is to > show what height (hence how visible) the tank would be, relative to > the remaining forest and the adjacent Penobscot Bay, which is heavily > used by windjammers and other pleasure sailors.
> Question: What is the best way for an independent assessment of the > height actually achieved by said balloon? It will be sent aloft near > dawn on June 21st, weather permitting.
I've used laser range finders in the past that do the trigonometry for
you. You just point the laser at the balloon and two distances are
displayed, one is the linear distance to the target and the other is the
distance from the target to the ground. They are expensive - maybe $200?
An inclinometer is a much cheaper option. You can just read the angle
(theta) and do the trig yourself. Remember: SOH CAH TOA
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Ned Horning <n...@lightlink.com> wrote:
> Ron,
> Most any simple solution will use geometry to determine the length of a
> side of a right triangle. The approach you use depends on the tools you
> have and assumptions that can be made. If you can measure the angle between
> the horizon (assuming you are at sea level and want height above sea
> level)and the balloon using some sort of inclinometer (sometimes built into
> compasses but you can also make one with a protractor and a string with a
> weight) and measure the distance from the point directly under the balloon
> to the point where the angle was measured you can calculate the balloon's
> height. You can also calculate the height if you have a laser range-finder
> and can measure the distance to the balloon and measure the angle using the
> same method mentioned above. If my assumptions are not correct you can
> apply offsets. If you sketch a picture and draw a right-triangle on it this
> might make more sense. If it doesn't make sense or isn't appropriate for
> what you're trying to do let me know and I'll try to explain better or come
> up with alternative ideas. If you search for methods for measuring tree
> heights you'll see lots of great illustrations.
> Good luck,
> Ned
> On 06/17/2012 01:47 PM, Ron Huber wrote:
> Dear friends
> A major energy company, which proposes to set up a very large liquified
> petroleum gas tank, is going to fly a tethered balloon above the coastal
> forest they would build their tank in/on The idea is to show what height
> (hence how visible) the tank would be, relative to the remaining forest and
> the adjacent Penobscot Bay, which is heavily used by windjammers and other
> pleasure sailors.
> Question: What is the best way for an independent assessment of the
> height actually achieved by said balloon? It will be sent aloft near dawn
> on June 21st, weather permitting.
> Ron
> --
> Ron Huber
> Penobscot Bay Watch
> web: www.penbay.org
Whatever you do, it might be a good idea to record the process on a
continuous uncut video, and also show the readout of a GPS in the video --
and post it on YouTube. Just to show your position so others can verify
your calculations. Just thinking of it from the standpoint of evidence.
Jeff
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Adam Griffith <adamdgriff...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I've used laser range finders in the past that do the trigonometry for
> you. You just point the laser at the balloon and two distances are
> displayed, one is the linear distance to the target and the other is the
> distance from the target to the ground. They are expensive - maybe $200?
> An inclinometer is a much cheaper option. You can just read the angle
> (theta) and do the trig yourself. Remember: SOH CAH TOA
> Adam
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Ned Horning <n...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>> Ron,
>> Most any simple solution will use geometry to determine the length of a
>> side of a right triangle. The approach you use depends on the tools you
>> have and assumptions that can be made. If you can measure the angle between
>> the horizon (assuming you are at sea level and want height above sea
>> level)and the balloon using some sort of inclinometer (sometimes built into
>> compasses but you can also make one with a protractor and a string with a
>> weight) and measure the distance from the point directly under the balloon
>> to the point where the angle was measured you can calculate the balloon's
>> height. You can also calculate the height if you have a laser range-finder
>> and can measure the distance to the balloon and measure the angle using the
>> same method mentioned above. If my assumptions are not correct you can
>> apply offsets. If you sketch a picture and draw a right-triangle on it this
>> might make more sense. If it doesn't make sense or isn't appropriate for
>> what you're trying to do let me know and I'll try to explain better or come
>> up with alternative ideas. If you search for methods for measuring tree
>> heights you'll see lots of great illustrations.
>> Good luck,
>> Ned
>> On 06/17/2012 01:47 PM, Ron Huber wrote:
>> Dear friends
>> A major energy company, which proposes to set up a very large liquified
>> petroleum gas tank, is going to fly a tethered balloon above the coastal
>> forest they would build their tank in/on The idea is to show what height
>> (hence how visible) the tank would be, relative to the remaining forest and
>> the adjacent Penobscot Bay, which is heavily used by windjammers and other
>> pleasure sailors.
>> Question: What is the best way for an independent assessment of the
>> height actually achieved by said balloon? It will be sent aloft near dawn
>> on June 21st, weather permitting.
>> Ron
>> --
>> Ron Huber
>> Penobscot Bay Watch
>> web: www.penbay.org
Perhaps attach a GPS unit to it? It should be trivial to calculate altitude, and in fact altitude may already be in the data. Do video and use the time stamps, so make sure they're synced up.
On Sunday, June 17, 2012 10:47:29 AM UTC-7, Ron Huber wrote:
> Dear friends > A major energy company, which proposes to set up a very large liquified > petroleum gas tank, is going to fly a tethered balloon above the coastal > forest they would build their tank in/on The idea is to show what height > (hence how visible) the tank would be, relative to the remaining forest and > the adjacent Penobscot Bay, which is heavily used by windjammers and other > pleasure sailors.
> Question: What is the best way for an independent assessment of the height > actually achieved by said balloon? It will be sent aloft near dawn on June > 21st, weather permitting.
> Ron > -- > Ron Huber > Penobscot Bay Watch > web: www.penbay.org
I'd skip the laser range finder and use a
theodolite<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodolite>.
you may be able to borrow a highly accurate one from a construction
company or town planning office, but you can build a pretty decent one with
a protractor and thumb-bob<http://www.mathsisfun.com/activity/how-high.html>.
That last link is to a secondary school math lesson on estimating tree
height. the same instructions should work for estimating altitude.
All you need to know is 1) how far you are from the base of the object,
(two GPS readings, double-checked against a satellite map would be ideal
here) 2) the angle between the ground and the straight line from you to
the object.
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Todd Huffman <odd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps attach a GPS unit to it? It should be trivial to calculate
> altitude, and in fact altitude may already be in the data. Do video and
> use the time stamps, so make sure they're synced up.
> T
> On Sunday, June 17, 2012 10:47:29 AM UTC-7, Ron Huber wrote:
>> Dear friends
>> A major energy company, which proposes to set up a very large liquified
>> petroleum gas tank, is going to fly a tethered balloon above the coastal
>> forest they would build their tank in/on The idea is to show what height
>> (hence how visible) the tank would be, relative to the remaining forest and
>> the adjacent Penobscot Bay, which is heavily used by windjammers and other
>> pleasure sailors.
>> Question: What is the best way for an independent assessment of the
>> height actually achieved by said balloon? It will be sent aloft near dawn
>> on June 21st, weather permitting.
>> Ron
>> --
>> Ron Huber
>> Penobscot Bay Watch
>> web: www.penbay.org
If have iPhone, consider the apps Theodoloite, EasyMeasure, and P&M
Measure. Don't know the equivalent ones for Android. Plus a number of the
gps apps.
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Mathew Lippincott <
mat...@publiclaboratory.org> wrote:
> I'd skip the laser range finder and use a theodolite<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodolite>.
> you may be able to borrow a highly accurate one from a construction
> company or town planning office, but you can build a pretty decent one with
> a protractor and thumb-bob<http://www.mathsisfun.com/activity/how-high.html>.
> That last link is to a secondary school math lesson on estimating tree
> height. the same instructions should work for estimating altitude.
> All you need to know is 1) how far you are from the base of the object,
> (two GPS readings, double-checked against a satellite map would be ideal
> here) 2) the angle between the ground and the straight line from you to
> the object.
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Todd Huffman <odd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Perhaps attach a GPS unit to it? It should be trivial to calculate
>> altitude, and in fact altitude may already be in the data. Do video and
>> use the time stamps, so make sure they're synced up.
>> T
>> On Sunday, June 17, 2012 10:47:29 AM UTC-7, Ron Huber wrote:
>>> Dear friends
>>> A major energy company, which proposes to set up a very large liquified
>>> petroleum gas tank, is going to fly a tethered balloon above the coastal
>>> forest they would build their tank in/on The idea is to show what height
>>> (hence how visible) the tank would be, relative to the remaining forest and
>>> the adjacent Penobscot Bay, which is heavily used by windjammers and other
>>> pleasure sailors.
>>> Question: What is the best way for an independent assessment of the
>>> height actually achieved by said balloon? It will be sent aloft near dawn
>>> on June 21st, weather permitting.
>>> Ron
>>> --
>>> Ron Huber
>>> Penobscot Bay Watch
>>> web: www.penbay.org
Android:
GeoCam Free
is rather data rich, although i think, in general, phones lack precision,
this app would generate everything besides the location of the balloon,
angle, coordinate
Open GPS tracker
If you're going to court, i would use a real GPS myself, or at least
double-check the phone with other tools.
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Patrick Coyle <p...@coyles.com> wrote:
> If have iPhone, consider the apps Theodoloite, EasyMeasure, and P&M
> Measure. Don't know the equivalent ones for Android. Plus a number of the
> gps apps.
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Mathew Lippincott <
> mat...@publiclaboratory.org> wrote:
>> I'd skip the laser range finder and use a theodolite<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodolite>.
>> you may be able to borrow a highly accurate one from a construction
>> company or town planning office, but you can build a pretty decent one with
>> a protractor and thumb-bob<http://www.mathsisfun.com/activity/how-high.html>.
>> That last link is to a secondary school math lesson on estimating tree
>> height. the same instructions should work for estimating altitude.
>> All you need to know is 1) how far you are from the base of the object,
>> (two GPS readings, double-checked against a satellite map would be ideal
>> here) 2) the angle between the ground and the straight line from you to
>> the object.
>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Todd Huffman <odd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Perhaps attach a GPS unit to it? It should be trivial to calculate
>>> altitude, and in fact altitude may already be in the data. Do video and
>>> use the time stamps, so make sure they're synced up.
>>> T
>>> On Sunday, June 17, 2012 10:47:29 AM UTC-7, Ron Huber wrote:
>>>> Dear friends
>>>> A major energy company, which proposes to set up a very large liquified
>>>> petroleum gas tank, is going to fly a tethered balloon above the coastal
>>>> forest they would build their tank in/on The idea is to show what height
>>>> (hence how visible) the tank would be, relative to the remaining forest and
>>>> the adjacent Penobscot Bay, which is heavily used by windjammers and other
>>>> pleasure sailors.
>>>> Question: What is the best way for an independent assessment of the
>>>> height actually achieved by said balloon? It will be sent aloft near dawn
>>>> on June 21st, weather permitting.
>>>> Ron
>>>> --
>>>> Ron Huber
>>>> Penobscot Bay Watch
>>>> web: www.penbay.org
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> Android:
> GeoCam Free
> is rather data rich, although i think, in general, phones lack precision,
> this app would generate everything besides the location of the balloon,
> angle, coordinate
> Open GPS tracker
> If you're going to court, i would use a real GPS myself, or at least
> double-check the phone with other tools.
> scott
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Patrick Coyle <p...@coyles.com> wrote:
>> If have iPhone, consider the apps Theodoloite, EasyMeasure, and P&M
>> Measure. Don't know the equivalent ones for Android. Plus a number of the
>> gps apps.
>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Mathew Lippincott <
>> mat...@publiclaboratory.org> wrote:
>>> I'd skip the laser range finder and use a theodolite<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodolite>.
>>> you may be able to borrow a highly accurate one from a construction
>>> company or town planning office, but you can build a pretty decent one with
>>> a protractor and thumb-bob<http://www.mathsisfun.com/activity/how-high.html>.
>>> That last link is to a secondary school math lesson on estimating tree
>>> height. the same instructions should work for estimating altitude.
>>> All you need to know is 1) how far you are from the base of the object,
>>> (two GPS readings, double-checked against a satellite map would be ideal
>>> here) 2) the angle between the ground and the straight line from you to
>>> the object.
>>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Todd Huffman <odd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Perhaps attach a GPS unit to it? It should be trivial to calculate
>>>> altitude, and in fact altitude may already be in the data. Do video and
>>>> use the time stamps, so make sure they're synced up.
>>>> T
>>>> On Sunday, June 17, 2012 10:47:29 AM UTC-7, Ron Huber wrote:
>>>>> Dear friends
>>>>> A major energy company, which proposes to set up a very large
>>>>> liquified petroleum gas tank, is going to fly a tethered balloon above the
>>>>> coastal forest they would build their tank in/on The idea is to show what
>>>>> height (hence how visible) the tank would be, relative to the remaining
>>>>> forest and the adjacent Penobscot Bay, which is heavily used by windjammers
>>>>> and other pleasure sailors.
>>>>> Question: What is the best way for an independent assessment of the
>>>>> height actually achieved by said balloon? It will be sent aloft near dawn
>>>>> on June 21st, weather permitting.
>>>>> Ron
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ron Huber
>>>>> Penobscot Bay Watch
>>>>> web: www.penbay.org
