We had proposed this solution (bus stop in parking bay) long back and a few bus stops had also been shifted accordingly. Even in the concept dwg for present busbay plan it is stated in the 'Notes' that recommended location of bus stop is in the parking bay. (See attached final dwg submitted)
However after observing trials of the busbay plan on FC road, we are of the opinion that this plan would work better (than bus stop in parking bay) on congested roads with high bus frequency. Footpath needs to be sufficiently wide in this case as bus shelter will be on footpath.
----- Original Message ----- From: Jayant Joshi To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4041] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade Inst. bus stop on FC road)
Instead of creating bus bays, if the bus stop is pulled ahead into the "parking lane", the bus will not have to pull in and out, passengers won't have to move forward to be able to see the incoming bus from a distance, parking - autorickshaws specifically - can be allowed almost to the edge of the bus stop and the footpath / cycle track remains unobstructed. All it does it take away about 2 cars worth of parking (assuming the bus stop will cater to two buses simultaneously - exactly the number that is being proposed in the new BRT designs). In fact, if the parking boxes are painted according to rules, no parking is taken away as there is already 15m supposedly free on either side of the bus stop. No barricades are needed. The only downside - if it can be called that - is that private vehicles have to wait behind the stopped bus. But that is probably a good thing and can almost give a quasi-bus-lane without demarcating. And in any case, it isn't any worse than today.
- Jayant
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar <adhiraj.jogle...@googlemail.com> wrote:
This initiative is helpful first step, but as Harshad points out, it
has to become rooted in the psyche and become a habit. The barriers
ought to be present mentally with minimal physical grade separation
(these metal barriers are a serious hazard) - usually this is done by
applying red tarmac to bays and bus lanes.
The other thing which we on this group understand but not the lot out
there is that this design can't be scaled to all roads because the
width is insufficient. There is a common fantasy that in the West
every bus stop has a bus bay and this allows rest of the traffic to
flow smoothly - the extension of this in India is - buses should not
be used on roads where a bus bay can't be introduced and the attitude
is ''do what you want, just don't let the bus obstruct me when I am
behind it (i.e. we serve the motorised vehicles). Thus, unless this
leads to next logical step of introducing bus lanes the exercise will
have limited value on enhancing PT per se, as by it self, the
impression is that the red box has been kicked out of my way.
A
On 18/07/2012, Harshad Abhyankar <a_hars...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A query: Do the cops remove the barricades and put them back every day?
> Because barricade-based improvements, esp when cops/ PMC staff has to spend
> some manpower every day (by design) have never sustained in Pune - the Laxmi
> Rd ped plaza is an example.
> Of course, I will be glad if they do what they are doing tirelessly, till
> people get in the habit :)
> regards,
> - Harshad.
> ________________________________
> From: Prashant Inamdar <prashantinam...@vsnl.net>
> To: PTTF General <pttfgen@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, 16 July 2012 9:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4035] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade Inst.
> bus stop on FC road)
> Yes the plan is working well and we have got
> very positive feedback both from Traffic Police and PMPML. Intend to
> replicate
> it at some other critical locations.
> Regards
> Prashant Inamdar
> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: Amit Paranjape
>>To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com
>>Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:36 PM
>>Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4031] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade Inst.
>> bus stop on FC road)
>>Prashant,
>>I saw this first hand yesterday at FC Road. Looked great!
>>>This is to inform about successful trials of busbay plan at Ranade
>>> Institute bus stop on FC road.
>>> It is a common sight that buses do not halt adjacent to curbside bus
>>> stops but on the road itself. This causes considerable inconvenience and
>>> serious safety problems for commuters boarding the bus or getting down.
>>> Traffic on road is also obstructed. We had submitted a proposal with
>>> layout drawings to PMC and Traffic Police for creating a busbay on main
>>> roads with roadside parking. During discussions we had proposed that the
>>> plan be tried out at a prominent location where serious problems are
>>> being faced and had suggested Ranade Institute bus stop of Fergusson
>>> College road. We are pleased to inform that the busbay plan trials have
>>> begun on 12th July morning with the cooperation and active participation
>>> of all agencies concerned - Traffic Police, PMPML, PMC - and have
>>> yielded good results as under -
>>>Earlier scenario -
>>>1) Buses halting on road as clear access to bus stop not available
>>>2) Parking adjacent to bus stop
>>>3) Driver indiscipline with buses moving in lanes away from bus stop
>>>4) Commuters standing on the road for boarding the bus
>>>5) Commuters getting down on the road and walking to the road side
>>>6) Highly unsafe condtions for commuters as traffic moving close by
>>>7) Buses halting on road obstructing traffic flow
>>>With busbay plan -
>>>1) Clear access to buses up to bus stop
>>>2) Bus exit from busbay is smooth without interfering with the main
>>> traffic flow.
>>>3) Parking not possible in the vicinity of bus stop due to physical
>>> barrier in parking bay
>>>4) Better driver discipline as buses have to compulsarily move in the
>>> left half of the road to access the busbay
>>>5) Better commuter discipline and safety as commuters do not have to wait
>>> on road and required to stand at the bus stop
>>>6) Buses dock very close to the bus stop making boarding very convenient
>>> and safe even for senior citizens
>>>7) Buses halting in the bus bay leave a clean carriageway
>>>8) Smooth flow of traffic irrespective of bus movement in the bus bay
>>>(Preferably there should be 2-wheeler parking prior to busbay)
>>>Attaching concept plan for busbay and some pictures (before trials and
>>> during trails).
>>>It is for the first time that a segregated bus bay has been created on
>>> normal road without any change in bus stop position or existing
>>> carriageway lanes. Physical separators (barricades) have been so placed
>>> before and after the bus stop that not only has a busbay been created
>>> but any parking in the busbay zone is also not possible. Thus area in
>>> the bus approach and exit path remains free of waiting rickshaws or
>>> other vehicles which used to obstruct access to bus stop. Even if any
>>> rickshaw or vehicle does halt in the busbay, it has to exit
>>> immediately when bus aligns for entering the busbay. Frequency of buses
>>> being very high, vehicles do not have opportunity to wait in the busbay
>>> area. The entire busbay length including entry path, bus stop and exit
>>> path is 50 metres. Two buses can comfortably halt at the bus stop with
>>> one entering and another leaving. Thus total four buses can be in the
>>> busbay area at the same time which is
> quite sufficient for smooth bus movement even during peak periods.
> Prominent busbay signage and permanent bollards now need to be installed in
> place of barricades to demarcate the busbay.
>>>We have actively participated in the design and implementation of the
>>> busbay plan and have been observing the trials for the past four days.
>>> In our opinion the busbay plan has been a success. We consider it a good
>>> example of team work by citizen group, Traffic Police, PMPML and PMC.
>>>We have requested that the model be replicated at major bus stops on
>>> arterial roads and progressively thereafter for other bus stops.
>>>RegardsPrashant Inamdar
>>>Convenor
>>>Pedestrians FIRST--
>>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups "PTTF" group.
>>>To post to this group, send email to pttfgen@googlegroups.com.
>>>To unsubscribe from this
> group, send email to pttfgen+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>>For more options,
> visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pttfgen?hl=en.
>>--
>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups "PTTF" group.
>>To post to this group, send email to
> pttfgen@googlegroups.com.
>>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> pttfgen+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>For more options, visit this group
The reason why bus bays have fallen into disrepute in cities like London
and Singapore is because of the exiting for the bay problem. Essentially
the bus has to merge back into the flowing traffic and this delays the bus.
Singapore tried to remedy this problem by installing a traffic light that
would turn red when the bus was about to pull out, stopping traffic behind
it, so that the bus could exit w/o any delay. That did not really work.
Also the issue of "get the bus out of my way" needs to be addressed - as
others in this post have already mentioned.
So overall, I still prefer the solution which pushed the bus platform into
the parking lane so that the bus does not have to turn into the bus bay and
exit again.
All this having been said, the issues on our streets are way too complex,
so this experiment is certainly worthwhile as it also addresses issues
related to safety, driver behavior, commuter behavior, motorist behavior,
parking encroachment etc, which are presumably not issues in Singapore or
London.
*8. Bus bays*
Bus bays (or lay-bys) present inherent operational problems for buses and
they should not be used unless there are compelling safety or capacity
reasons. The Mayor’s Transport Strategy lends further weight to this view
in that priority should be given, wherever possible, to efficient 'people
movers' such as buses.
-- Ranjit
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Prashant Inamdar
<prashantinam...@vsnl.net>wrote:
> We had proposed this solution (bus stop in parking bay) long back and a
> few bus stops had also been shifted accordingly. Even in the concept dwg
> for present busbay plan it is stated in the 'Notes' that recommended
> location of bus stop is in the parking bay. (See attached final dwg
> submitted)
> However after observing trials of the busbay plan on FC road, we are of
> the opinion that this plan would work better (than bus stop in parking bay)
> on congested roads with high bus frequency. Footpath needs to be
> sufficiently wide in this case as bus shelter will be on footpath.
> - Prashant
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jayant Joshi <jayant.jo...@savepunetraffic.org>
> *To:* pttfgen@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:38 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [pttfgen:4041] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade
> Inst. bus stop on FC road)
> Instead of creating bus bays, if the bus stop is pulled ahead into the
> "parking lane", the bus will not have to pull in and out, passengers won't
> have to move forward to be able to see the incoming bus from a distance,
> parking - autorickshaws specifically - can be allowed almost to the edge of
> the bus stop and the footpath / cycle track remains unobstructed. All it
> does it take away about 2 cars worth of parking (assuming the bus stop will
> cater to two buses simultaneously - exactly the number that is being
> proposed in the new BRT designs). In fact, if the parking boxes are painted
> according to rules, no parking is taken away as there is already 15m
> supposedly free on either side of the bus stop. No barricades are needed.
> The only downside - if it can be called that - is that private vehicles
> have to wait behind the stopped bus. But that is probably a good thing and
> can almost give a quasi-bus-lane without demarcating. And in any case, it
> isn't any worse than today.
> - Jayant
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar <
> adhiraj.jogle...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> This initiative is helpful first step, but as Harshad points out, it
>> has to become rooted in the psyche and become a habit. The barriers
>> ought to be present mentally with minimal physical grade separation
>> (these metal barriers are a serious hazard) - usually this is done by
>> applying red tarmac to bays and bus lanes.
>> The other thing which we on this group understand but not the lot out
>> there is that this design can't be scaled to all roads because the
>> width is insufficient. There is a common fantasy that in the West
>> every bus stop has a bus bay and this allows rest of the traffic to
>> flow smoothly - the extension of this in India is - buses should not
>> be used on roads where a bus bay can't be introduced and the attitude
>> is ''do what you want, just don't let the bus obstruct me when I am
>> behind it (i.e. we serve the motorised vehicles). Thus, unless this
>> leads to next logical step of introducing bus lanes the exercise will
>> have limited value on enhancing PT per se, as by it self, the
>> impression is that the red box has been kicked out of my way.
>> A
>> On 18/07/2012, Harshad Abhyankar <a_hars...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > A query: Do the cops remove the barricades and put them back every day?
>> > Because barricade-based improvements, esp when cops/ PMC staff has to
>> spend
>> > some manpower every day (by design) have never sustained in Pune - the
>> Laxmi
>> > Rd ped plaza is an example.
>> > Of course, I will be glad if they do what they are doing tirelessly,
>> till
>> > people get in the habit :)
>> > regards,
>> > - Harshad.
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: Prashant Inamdar <prashantinam...@vsnl.net>
>> > To: PTTF General <pttfgen@googlegroups.com>
>> > Sent: Monday, 16 July 2012 9:11 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4035] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade
>> Inst.
>> > bus stop on FC road)
>> > Yes the plan is working well and we have got
>> > very positive feedback both from Traffic Police and PMPML. Intend to
>> > replicate
>> > it at some other critical locations.
>> > Regards
>> > Prashant Inamdar
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>From: Amit Paranjape
>> >>To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com
>> >>Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:36 PM
>> >>Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4031] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade
>> Inst.
>> >> bus stop on FC road)
>> >>Prashant,
>> >>I saw this first hand yesterday at FC Road. Looked great!
>> >>>This is to inform about successful trials of busbay plan at Ranade
>> >>> Institute bus stop on FC road.
>> >>> It is a common sight that buses do not halt adjacent to curbside bus
>> >>> stops but on the road itself. This causes considerable inconvenience
>> and
>> >>> serious safety problems for commuters boarding the bus or getting
>> down.
>> >>> Traffic on road is also obstructed. We had submitted a proposal with
>> >>> layout drawings to PMC and Traffic Police for creating a busbay on
>> main
>> >>> roads with roadside parking. During discussions we had proposed that
>> the
>> >>> plan be tried out at a prominent location where serious problems are
>> >>> being faced and had suggested Ranade Institute bus stop of Fergusson
>> >>> College road. We are pleased to inform that the busbay plan trials
>> have
>> >>> begun on 12th July morning with the cooperation and active
>> participation
>> >>> of all agencies concerned - Traffic Police, PMPML, PMC - and have
>> >>> yielded good results as under -
>> >>>Earlier scenario -
>> >>>1) Buses halting on road as clear access to bus stop not available
>> >>>2) Parking adjacent to bus stop
>> >>>3) Driver indiscipline with buses moving in lanes away from bus stop
>> >>>4) Commuters standing on the road for boarding the bus
>> >>>5) Commuters getting down on the road and walking to the road side
>> >>>6) Highly unsafe condtions for commuters as traffic moving close by
>> >>>7) Buses halting on road obstructing traffic flow
>> >>>With busbay plan -
>> >>>1) Clear access to buses up to bus stop
>> >>>2) Bus exit from busbay is smooth without interfering with the main
>> >>> traffic flow.
>> >>>3) Parking not possible in the vicinity of bus stop due to physical
>> >>> barrier in parking bay
>> >>>4) Better driver discipline as buses have to compulsarily move in the
>> >>> left half of the road to access the busbay
>> >>>5) Better commuter discipline and safety as commuters do not have to
>> wait
>> >>> on road and required to stand at the bus stop
>> >>>6) Buses dock very close to the bus stop making boarding very
>> convenient
>> >>> and safe even for senior citizens
>> >>>7) Buses halting in the bus bay leave a clean carriageway
>> >>>8) Smooth flow of traffic irrespective of bus movement in the bus bay
>> >>>(Preferably there should be 2-wheeler parking prior to busbay)
>> >>>Attaching concept plan for busbay and some pictures (before trials and
>> >>> during trails).
>> >>>It is for the first time that a segregated bus bay has been created on
>> >>> normal road without any change in bus stop position or existing
>> >>> carriageway lanes. Physical separators (barricades) have been so
>> placed
>> >>> before and after the bus stop that not only has a busbay been created
>> >>> but any parking in the busbay zone is also not possible. Thus area
>> in
>> >>> the bus approach and exit path remains free of waiting rickshaws or
>> >>> other vehicles which used to obstruct access to bus stop. Even if any
>> >>> rickshaw or vehicle does halt in the busbay, it has to exit
>> >>> immediately when bus aligns for entering the busbay. Frequency of
>> buses
>> >>> being very high, vehicles do not have opportunity to wait in the
>> busbay
>> >>> area. The entire busbay length including entry path, bus stop and
>> exit
Just to update that this morning at 715am on FC Road the system was working well. I saw three buses line up properly one after the other. Though the barricades had not been put up yet, they were well within the yellow lines. There was also nobody standing there monitoring their movements, but they moved very smoothly into the lane. Thanks Sumita Kale
On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:31:30 PM UTC+5:30, Prashant Inamdar wrote:
> We had proposed this solution (bus stop in parking bay) long back and a > few bus stops had also been shifted accordingly. Even in the concept dwg > for present busbay plan it is stated in the 'Notes' that recommended > location of bus stop is in the parking bay. (See attached final dwg > submitted) > However after observing trials of the busbay plan on FC road, we are of > the opinion that this plan would work better (than bus stop in parking bay) > on congested roads with high bus frequency. Footpath needs to be > sufficiently wide in this case as bus shelter will be on footpath.
> - Prashant
> ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jayant Joshi <jayant.jo...@savepunetraffic.org> > *To:* pttfgen@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:38 PM > *Subject:* Re: [pttfgen:4041] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade > Inst. bus stop on FC road)
> Instead of creating bus bays, if the bus stop is pulled ahead into the > "parking lane", the bus will not have to pull in and out, passengers won't > have to move forward to be able to see the incoming bus from a distance, > parking - autorickshaws specifically - can be allowed almost to the edge of > the bus stop and the footpath / cycle track remains unobstructed. All it > does it take away about 2 cars worth of parking (assuming the bus stop will > cater to two buses simultaneously - exactly the number that is being > proposed in the new BRT designs). In fact, if the parking boxes are painted > according to rules, no parking is taken away as there is already 15m > supposedly free on either side of the bus stop. No barricades are needed. > The only downside - if it can be called that - is that private vehicles > have to wait behind the stopped bus. But that is probably a good thing and > can almost give a quasi-bus-lane without demarcating. And in any case, it > isn't any worse than today.
> - Jayant
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar < > adhiraj.jogle...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> This initiative is helpful first step, but as Harshad points out, it >> has to become rooted in the psyche and become a habit. The barriers >> ought to be present mentally with minimal physical grade separation >> (these metal barriers are a serious hazard) - usually this is done by >> applying red tarmac to bays and bus lanes.
>> The other thing which we on this group understand but not the lot out >> there is that this design can't be scaled to all roads because the >> width is insufficient. There is a common fantasy that in the West >> every bus stop has a bus bay and this allows rest of the traffic to >> flow smoothly - the extension of this in India is - buses should not >> be used on roads where a bus bay can't be introduced and the attitude >> is ''do what you want, just don't let the bus obstruct me when I am >> behind it (i.e. we serve the motorised vehicles). Thus, unless this >> leads to next logical step of introducing bus lanes the exercise will >> have limited value on enhancing PT per se, as by it self, the >> impression is that the red box has been kicked out of my way.
>> A
>> On 18/07/2012, Harshad Abhyankar <a_hars...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > A query: Do the cops remove the barricades and put them back every day? >> > Because barricade-based improvements, esp when cops/ PMC staff has to >> spend >> > some manpower every day (by design) have never sustained in Pune - the >> Laxmi >> > Rd ped plaza is an example.
>> > Of course, I will be glad if they do what they are doing tirelessly, >> till >> > people get in the habit :)
>> > regards,
>> > - Harshad.
>> > ________________________________ >> > From: Prashant Inamdar <prashantinam...@vsnl.net> >> > To: PTTF General <pttfgen@googlegroups.com> >> > Sent: Monday, 16 July 2012 9:11 PM >> > Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4035] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade >> Inst. >> > bus stop on FC road)
>> > Yes the plan is working well and we have got >> > very positive feedback both from Traffic Police and PMPML. Intend to >> > replicate >> > it at some other critical locations.
>> > Regards >> > Prashant Inamdar
>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >>From: Amit Paranjape >> >>To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com >> >>Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:36 PM >> >>Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4031] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade >> Inst. >> >> bus stop on FC road)
>> >>Prashant,
>> >>I saw this first hand yesterday at FC Road. Looked great!
>> >>>This is to inform about successful trials of busbay plan at Ranade >> >>> Institute bus stop on FC road. >> >>> It is a common sight that buses do not halt adjacent to curbside bus >> >>> stops but on the road itself. This causes considerable inconvenience >> and >> >>> serious safety problems for commuters boarding the bus or getting >> down. >> >>> Traffic on road is also obstructed. We had submitted a proposal with >> >>> layout drawings to PMC and Traffic Police for creating a busbay on >> main >> >>> roads with roadside parking. During discussions we had proposed that >> the >> >>> plan be tried out at a prominent location where serious problems are >> >>> being faced and had suggested Ranade Institute bus stop of Fergusson >> >>> College road. We are pleased to inform that the busbay plan trials >> have >> >>> begun on 12th July morning with the cooperation and active >> participation >> >>> of all agencies concerned - Traffic Police, PMPML, PMC - and have >> >>> yielded good results as under -
>> >>>Earlier scenario - >> >>>1) Buses halting on road as clear access to bus stop not available >> >>>2) Parking adjacent to bus stop >> >>>3) Driver indiscipline with buses moving in lanes away from bus stop >> >>>4) Commuters standing on the road for boarding the bus >> >>>5) Commuters getting down on the road and walking to the road side >> >>>6) Highly unsafe condtions for commuters as traffic moving close by >> >>>7) Buses halting on road obstructing traffic flow
>> >>>With busbay plan - >> >>>1) Clear access to buses up to bus stop >> >>>2) Bus exit from busbay is smooth without interfering with the main >> >>> traffic flow. >> >>>3) Parking not possible in the vicinity of bus stop due to physical >> >>> barrier in parking bay >> >>>4) Better driver discipline as buses have to compulsarily move in the >> >>> left half of the road to access the busbay >> >>>5) Better commuter discipline and safety as commuters do not have to >> wait >> >>> on road and required to stand at the bus stop >> >>>6) Buses dock very close to the bus stop making boarding very >> convenient >> >>> and safe even for senior citizens >> >>>7) Buses halting in the bus bay leave a clean carriageway >> >>>8) Smooth flow of traffic irrespective of bus movement in the bus bay >> >>>(Preferably there should be 2-wheeler parking prior to busbay)
>> >>>Attaching concept plan for busbay and some pictures (before trials and >> >>> during trails).
>> >>>It is for the first time that a segregated bus bay has been created on >> >>> normal road without any change in bus stop position or existing >> >>> carriageway lanes. Physical separators (barricades) have been so >> placed >> >>> before and after the bus stop that not only has a busbay been created >> >>> but any parking in the busbay zone is also not possible. Thus area >> in >> >>> the bus approach and exit path remains free of waiting rickshaws or >> >>> other vehicles which used to obstruct access to bus stop. Even if any >> >>> rickshaw or vehicle does halt in the busbay, it has to exit >> >>> immediately when bus aligns for entering the busbay. Frequency of >> buses >> >>> being very high, vehicles do not have opportunity to wait in the >> busbay >> >>> area. The entire busbay length including entry path, bus stop and >> exit >> >>> path is 50 metres. Two buses can comfortably halt at the bus stop >> with >> >>> one entering and another leaving. Thus total four buses can be in the >> >>> busbay area at the same time which is >> > quite sufficient for smooth bus movement even during peak periods. >> > Prominent busbay signage and permanent bollards now need to be >> installed in >> > place of barricades to demarcate the busbay.
>> >>>We have actively participated in the design and implementation of the >> >>> busbay plan and have been observing the trials for the past four >> days. >> >>> In our opinion the busbay plan has been a success. We consider it a >> good >> >>> example of team work by citizen group, Traffic Police, PMPML and >> PMC.
>> >>>We have requested that the model be replicated at major bus stops on >> >>> arterial roads and progressively thereafter for other bus stops.
>> >>>RegardsPrashant Inamdar >> >>>Convenor >> >>>Pedestrians FIRST-- >> >>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> > Google Groups "PTTF" group. >> >>>To post to this group, send email to pttfgen@googlegroups.com. >> >>>To unsubscribe from this >> > group, send email to pttfgen+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>>For more options, >> > visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pttfgen?hl=en.
Thanks for this update abt early morning status. Good to know that buses were following busbay discipline even when barricades were not in place and supervising person was also not on duty. Shows that a proper infrastructure and a simple convenient easy to follow system brings about better road discipline. Unfortunately this is absent at most places which is one of the primary reasons for traffic indiscipline.
----- Original Message ----- From: Sumita Kale To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com
Cc: prashantinam...@vsnl.net Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [pttfgen:4041] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade Inst. bus stop on FC road)
Just to update that this morning at 715am on FC Road the system was working well. I saw three buses line up properly one after the other. Though the barricades had not been put up yet, they were well within the yellow lines. There was also nobody standing there monitoring their movements, but they moved very smoothly into the lane. Thanks
Sumita Kale
On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:31:30 PM UTC+5:30, Prashant Inamdar wrote:
We had proposed this solution (bus stop in parking bay) long back and a few bus stops had also been shifted accordingly. Even in the concept dwg for present busbay plan it is stated in the 'Notes' that recommended location of bus stop is in the parking bay. (See attached final dwg submitted)
However after observing trials of the busbay plan on FC road, we are of the opinion that this plan would work better (than bus stop in parking bay) on congested roads with high bus frequency. Footpath needs to be sufficiently wide in this case as bus shelter will be on footpath.
- Prashant
----- Original Message ----- From: Jayant Joshi To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4041] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade Inst. bus stop on FC road)
Instead of creating bus bays, if the bus stop is pulled ahead into the "parking lane", the bus will not have to pull in and out, passengers won't have to move forward to be able to see the incoming bus from a distance, parking - autorickshaws specifically - can be allowed almost to the edge of the bus stop and the footpath / cycle track remains unobstructed. All it does it take away about 2 cars worth of parking (assuming the bus stop will cater to two buses simultaneously - exactly the number that is being proposed in the new BRT designs). In fact, if the parking boxes are painted according to rules, no parking is taken away as there is already 15m supposedly free on either side of the bus stop. No barricades are needed. The only downside - if it can be called that - is that private vehicles have to wait behind the stopped bus. But that is probably a good thing and can almost give a quasi-bus-lane without demarcating. And in any case, it isn't any worse than today.
- Jayant
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar <adhiraj.jogle...@googlemail.com> wrote:
This initiative is helpful first step, but as Harshad points out, it
has to become rooted in the psyche and become a habit. The barriers
ought to be present mentally with minimal physical grade separation
(these metal barriers are a serious hazard) - usually this is done by
applying red tarmac to bays and bus lanes.
The other thing which we on this group understand but not the lot out
there is that this design can't be scaled to all roads because the
width is insufficient. There is a common fantasy that in the West
every bus stop has a bus bay and this allows rest of the traffic to
flow smoothly - the extension of this in India is - buses should not
be used on roads where a bus bay can't be introduced and the attitude
is ''do what you want, just don't let the bus obstruct me when I am
behind it (i.e. we serve the motorised vehicles). Thus, unless this
leads to next logical step of introducing bus lanes the exercise will
have limited value on enhancing PT per se, as by it self, the
impression is that the red box has been kicked out of my way.
A
On 18/07/2012, Harshad Abhyankar <a_hars...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A query: Do the cops remove the barricades and put them back every day?
> Because barricade-based improvements, esp when cops/ PMC staff has to spend
> some manpower every day (by design) have never sustained in Pune - the Laxmi
> Rd ped plaza is an example.
> Of course, I will be glad if they do what they are doing tirelessly, till
> people get in the habit :)
> regards,
> - Harshad.
> ________________________________
> From: Prashant Inamdar <prashantinam...@vsnl.net>
> To: PTTF General <pttfgen@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, 16 July 2012 9:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4035] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade Inst.
> bus stop on FC road)
> Yes the plan is working well and we have got
> very positive feedback both from Traffic Police and PMPML. Intend to
> replicate
> it at some other critical locations.
> Regards
> Prashant Inamdar
> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: Amit Paranjape
>>To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com
>>Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:36 PM
>>Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4031] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade Inst.
>> bus stop on FC road)
>>Prashant,
>>I saw this first hand yesterday at FC Road. Looked great!
>>>This is to inform about successful trials of busbay plan at Ranade
>>> Institute bus stop on FC road.
>>> It is a common sight that buses do not halt adjacent to curbside bus
>>> stops but on the road itself. This causes considerable inconvenience and
>>> serious safety problems for commuters boarding the bus or getting down.
>>> Traffic on road is also obstructed. We had submitted a proposal with
>>> layout drawings to PMC and Traffic Police for creating a busbay on main
>>> roads with roadside parking. During discussions we had proposed that the
>>> plan be tried out at a prominent location where serious problems are
>>> being faced and had suggested Ranade Institute bus stop of Fergusson
>>> College road. We are pleased to inform that the busbay plan trials have
>>> begun on 12th July morning with the cooperation and active participation
>>> of all agencies concerned - Traffic Police, PMPML, PMC - and have
>>> yielded good results as under -
>>>Earlier scenario -
>>>1) Buses halting on road as clear access to bus stop not available
>>>2) Parking adjacent to bus stop
>>>3) Driver indiscipline with buses moving in lanes away from bus stop
>>>4) Commuters standing on the road for boarding the bus
>>>5) Commuters getting down on the road and walking to the road side
>>>6) Highly unsafe condtions for commuters as traffic moving close by
>>>7) Buses halting on road obstructing traffic flow
>>>With busbay plan -
>>>1) Clear access to buses up to bus stop
>>>2) Bus exit from busbay is smooth without interfering with the main
>>> traffic flow.
>>>3) Parking not possible in the vicinity of bus stop due to physical
>>> barrier in parking bay
>>>4) Better driver discipline as buses have to compulsarily move in the
>>> left half of the road to access the busbay
>>>5) Better commuter discipline and safety as commuters do not have to wait
>>> on road and required to stand at the bus stop
>>>6) Buses dock very close to the bus stop making boarding very convenient
>>> and safe even for senior citizens
>>>7) Buses halting in the bus bay leave a clean carriageway
>>>8) Smooth flow of traffic irrespective of bus movement in the bus bay
>>>(Preferably there should be 2-wheeler parking prior to busbay)
>>>Attaching concept plan for busbay and some pictures (before trials and
>>> during trails).
>>>It is for the first time that a segregated bus bay has been created on
>>> normal road without any change in bus stop position or existing
>>> carriageway lanes. Physical separators (barricades) have been so placed
>>> before and after the bus stop that not only has a busbay been created
>>> but any parking in the busbay zone is also not possible. Thus area in
>>> the bus approach and exit path remains free of waiting rickshaws or
>>> other vehicles which used to obstruct access to bus stop. Even if any
>>> rickshaw or vehicle does halt in the busbay, it has to exit
>>> immediately when bus aligns for entering the busbay. Frequency of buses
>>> being very high, vehicles do not have opportunity to wait in the busbay
>>> area. The entire busbay length including entry path, bus stop and exit
>>> path
Pictures from this morning..Again, no barricades in the middle of the road and no personnel waiting to guide the buses..Will keep my fingers crossed that this stays this way but looks like the yellow markings help a lot.
On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:31:30 PM UTC+5:30, Prashant Inamdar wrote:
> We had proposed this solution (bus stop in parking bay) long back and a > few bus stops had also been shifted accordingly. Even in the concept dwg > for present busbay plan it is stated in the 'Notes' that recommended > location of bus stop is in the parking bay. (See attached final dwg > submitted) > However after observing trials of the busbay plan on FC road, we are of > the opinion that this plan would work better (than bus stop in parking bay) > on congested roads with high bus frequency. Footpath needs to be > sufficiently wide in this case as bus shelter will be on footpath.
> - Prashant
> ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jayant Joshi <jayant.jo...@savepunetraffic.org> > *To:* pttfgen@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:38 PM > *Subject:* Re: [pttfgen:4041] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade > Inst. bus stop on FC road)
> Instead of creating bus bays, if the bus stop is pulled ahead into the > "parking lane", the bus will not have to pull in and out, passengers won't > have to move forward to be able to see the incoming bus from a distance, > parking - autorickshaws specifically - can be allowed almost to the edge of > the bus stop and the footpath / cycle track remains unobstructed. All it > does it take away about 2 cars worth of parking (assuming the bus stop will > cater to two buses simultaneously - exactly the number that is being > proposed in the new BRT designs). In fact, if the parking boxes are painted > according to rules, no parking is taken away as there is already 15m > supposedly free on either side of the bus stop. No barricades are needed. > The only downside - if it can be called that - is that private vehicles > have to wait behind the stopped bus. But that is probably a good thing and > can almost give a quasi-bus-lane without demarcating. And in any case, it > isn't any worse than today.
> - Jayant
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Dr Adhiraj Joglekar < > adhiraj.jogle...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> This initiative is helpful first step, but as Harshad points out, it >> has to become rooted in the psyche and become a habit. The barriers >> ought to be present mentally with minimal physical grade separation >> (these metal barriers are a serious hazard) - usually this is done by >> applying red tarmac to bays and bus lanes.
>> The other thing which we on this group understand but not the lot out >> there is that this design can't be scaled to all roads because the >> width is insufficient. There is a common fantasy that in the West >> every bus stop has a bus bay and this allows rest of the traffic to >> flow smoothly - the extension of this in India is - buses should not >> be used on roads where a bus bay can't be introduced and the attitude >> is ''do what you want, just don't let the bus obstruct me when I am >> behind it (i.e. we serve the motorised vehicles). Thus, unless this >> leads to next logical step of introducing bus lanes the exercise will >> have limited value on enhancing PT per se, as by it self, the >> impression is that the red box has been kicked out of my way.
>> A
>> On 18/07/2012, Harshad Abhyankar <a_hars...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > A query: Do the cops remove the barricades and put them back every day? >> > Because barricade-based improvements, esp when cops/ PMC staff has to >> spend >> > some manpower every day (by design) have never sustained in Pune - the >> Laxmi >> > Rd ped plaza is an example.
>> > Of course, I will be glad if they do what they are doing tirelessly, >> till >> > people get in the habit :)
>> > regards,
>> > - Harshad.
>> > ________________________________ >> > From: Prashant Inamdar <prashantinam...@vsnl.net> >> > To: PTTF General <pttfgen@googlegroups.com> >> > Sent: Monday, 16 July 2012 9:11 PM >> > Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4035] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade >> Inst. >> > bus stop on FC road)
>> > Yes the plan is working well and we have got >> > very positive feedback both from Traffic Police and PMPML. Intend to >> > replicate >> > it at some other critical locations.
>> > Regards >> > Prashant Inamdar
>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >>From: Amit Paranjape >> >>To: pttfgen@googlegroups.com >> >>Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:36 PM >> >>Subject: Re: [pttfgen:4031] Busbay plan trials a success (at Ranade >> Inst. >> >> bus stop on FC road)
>> >>Prashant,
>> >>I saw this first hand yesterday at FC Road. Looked great!
>> >>>This is to inform about successful trials of busbay plan at Ranade >> >>> Institute bus stop on FC road. >> >>> It is a common sight that buses do not halt adjacent to curbside bus >> >>> stops but on the road itself. This causes considerable inconvenience >> and >> >>> serious safety problems for commuters boarding the bus or getting >> down. >> >>> Traffic on road is also obstructed. We had submitted a proposal with >> >>> layout drawings to PMC and Traffic Police for creating a busbay on >> main >> >>> roads with roadside parking. During discussions we had proposed that >> the >> >>> plan be tried out at a prominent location where serious problems are >> >>> being faced and had suggested Ranade Institute bus stop of Fergusson >> >>> College road. We are pleased to inform that the busbay plan trials >> have >> >>> begun on 12th July morning with the cooperation and active >> participation >> >>> of all agencies concerned - Traffic Police, PMPML, PMC - and have >> >>> yielded good results as under -
>> >>>Earlier scenario - >> >>>1) Buses halting on road as clear access to bus stop not available >> >>>2) Parking adjacent to bus stop >> >>>3) Driver indiscipline with buses moving in lanes away from bus stop >> >>>4) Commuters standing on the road for boarding the bus >> >>>5) Commuters getting down on the road and walking to the road side >> >>>6) Highly unsafe condtions for commuters as traffic moving close by >> >>>7) Buses halting on road obstructing traffic flow
>> >>>With busbay plan - >> >>>1) Clear access to buses up to bus stop >> >>>2) Bus exit from busbay is smooth without interfering with the main >> >>> traffic flow. >> >>>3) Parking not possible in the vicinity of bus stop due to physical >> >>> barrier in parking bay >> >>>4) Better driver discipline as buses have to compulsarily move in the >> >>> left half of the road to access the busbay >> >>>5) Better commuter discipline and safety as commuters do not have to >> wait >> >>> on road and required to stand at the bus stop >> >>>6) Buses dock very close to the bus stop making boarding very >> convenient >> >>> and safe even for senior citizens >> >>>7) Buses halting in the bus bay leave a clean carriageway >> >>>8) Smooth flow of traffic irrespective of bus movement in the bus bay >> >>>(Preferably there should be 2-wheeler parking prior to busbay)
>> >>>Attaching concept plan for busbay and some pictures (before trials and >> >>> during trails).
>> >>>It is for the first time that a segregated bus bay has been created on >> >>> normal road without any change in bus stop position or existing >> >>> carriageway lanes. Physical separators (barricades) have been so >> placed >> >>> before and after the bus stop that not only has a busbay been created >> >>> but any parking in the busbay zone is also not possible. Thus area >> in >> >>> the bus approach and exit path remains free of waiting rickshaws or >> >>> other vehicles which used to obstruct access to bus stop. Even if any >> >>> rickshaw or vehicle does halt in the busbay, it has to exit >> >>> immediately when bus aligns for entering the busbay. Frequency of >> buses >> >>> being very high, vehicles do not have opportunity to wait in the >> busbay >> >>> area. The entire busbay length including entry path, bus stop and >> exit >> >>> path is 50 metres. Two buses can comfortably halt at the bus stop >> with >> >>> one entering and another leaving. Thus total four buses can be in the >> >>> busbay area at the same time which is >> > quite sufficient for smooth bus movement even during peak periods. >> > Prominent busbay signage and permanent bollards now need to be >> installed in >> > place of barricades to demarcate the busbay.
>> >>>We have actively participated in the design and implementation of the >> >>> busbay plan and have been observing the trials for the past four >> days. >> >>> In our opinion the busbay plan has been a success. We consider it a >> good >> >>> example of team work by citizen group, Traffic Police, PMPML and >> PMC.
>> >>>We have requested that the model be replicated at major bus stops on >> >>> arterial roads and progressively thereafter for other bus stops.
>> >>>RegardsPrashant Inamdar >> >>>Convenor >> >>>Pedestrians FIRST-- >> >>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> > Google Groups "PTTF" group. >> >>>To post to this group, send email to pttfgen@googlegroups.com. >> >>>To unsubscribe from this >> > group, send email to pttfgen+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>>For more options, >> > visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pttfgen?hl=en.
>> >>-- >> >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> > Google Groups "PTTF" group. >> >>To post to this group,
