Fwd: Sector67's Paragon Motor Controller

[Jim Burke]

Hey, I have make magazine asking about Paragon controller

Sector 67 please advise..

also also J-Squad wants to have a paragon controller this year. please advise!!!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Goli Mohammadi <go...@oreilly.com>
Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:56 PM
Subject: Sector67's Paragon Motor Controller
To: Jim Burke <burke...@gmail.com>, Patrick Callahan <pmca...@gmail.com>
Cc: Daniel Spangler <dspa...@oreilly.com>

Hi Jim and Patrick,

First off, thanks so much for joining us last night on the Hangout! It was great to have PPPRS represented.

I have a question for you: Dan Spangler, our intern who's leading our car build for Maker Faire, is looking for more info on Sector67's Paragon Motor Controller, mentioned in this post:

http://www.sector67.org/blog/2012/fauxrarri/

The link goes to Alex McClees site, but his links on the site dead end. 

Do you have contact info for Alex or a way to put Dan in touch with him?

Thanks!

Cheers,

Goli

Goli Mohammadi

Senior Editor

MAKE (http://makezine.com)

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Also check out:

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[Alex McLees]

OH HI GUYS!
Since the last version of the Paragon worked flawlessly in New York, I would like to have controllers available for other people to use this season.
Over the next month I plan on revising it to include onboard current sensing, testing the new design, and hopefully writing a user manual.
All of the controller development happens in my spare time, so it is difficult for me to give exact dates.
As for contacting me with questions about the controller, it is probably easiest to send me an email at makerc...@gmail.com

Cheers,
Alex McLees

[T Davis]

can we get the beta or alpha release?

[Phil Vachon]

Alex, I am new to this forum and am just planing my car for this season any update on your controller project?

[Alex McLees]

I have been getting many requests for the controller so I want to let you all know I plan on offering kits soon.

I am currently finishing a revision of the PCB which I plan to order by the end of March.

They should arrive ~3-4 weeks later giving me time to order all the other parts, write assembly instructions and something that resembles a user manual.

I would like to have kits to sell by early-mid May with the Arduino code available for all to use/modify as they see fit.

Although I am fairly confident that I can have the kits completed with plenty of time before the official beginning of the Midwest Division's Season, please do not make your car dependent on my controller (a.k.a. have a backup controller).
I will do my best to have the kits finished in plenty of time and would love teams to be able to use them and test them out for the entirety of the season.

Although I do not have an exact price yet, they will be much cheaper than similarly featured Curtis or Kelly controllers

I am shooting for a price range around $100-150 depending on whether or not it comes with the Arduino and current sensor.

Basic Features:

Arduino shield motor controller for DC brushed motors (sorry, it's not a brushless motor controller. My next one will be)

400+ Amps

12-36V

4-Quadrant: Forward and reverse with regenerative braking in both directions.

Cheers,

Alex

[T Davis]

is it possible to just buy the files from you?

[Eli Richter]

Hey, are there any updates on this controller?

[Alex McLees]

Yes there are!
All the boards and parts arrived, I have assembled a couple of the controllers for testing, and have a working (albeit simplified) version of the code.
No-load bench testing with an oscilloscope gave good results.
I plan of testing them under load (on vehicle) this weekend and if everything works properly I should have kits ready within a few days.

Stay tuned ;)

[Greg Needel]

Hey Alex,

    I was wondering if you had set a price for the controller yet? I am defiantly interested in one of the kits.

Thanks,

Greg

[Alex McLees]

Much to my chagrin, I encountered a flaw in the PCB layout while load testing this weekend.

Trying to pull 300+ amps through a not quite large enough return path has taught me not to trust PCB copper to carry any significant current no matter how short and wide the path.

I am going to modify PCB layout such that every high current lead has a direct connection to the bus bars.

The bad news is it will be another 4 weeks before new PCBs arrive.

The good news is I plan on selling kits for as close to the BOM cost as possible, which right now sits at $120.

Thanks,

Alex

[Pete Prodoehl]

Alex,

We ended up discussing controllers on the drive home tonight and the Paragon came up... any update on it?


Pete

--
 

[Karen Corbeill]

What I know:

Well, it ran flawlessly at all 3 weekends this season. I know the motor specs that it supports are rather specific, but has been running great. It supports brushed motors, but not brushless and I think your batteries need to be of a certain quality to handle the regen. The design is good for what it is, but I know Alex wants to crate a new design that is modular and more versatile. If you're interested in the current controller design, I'm sure he could probably sell you one. I don't know if he has one ready if you wanted it for NY, but I could probably bring one to your MakerFest.

~Karen

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[T Davis]

i would be willing to buy the files and the code.

[Alex McLees]

No buying the files or code, the Paragon will be released as an open source hardware/software project.
My plan is to release the design files (Eagle CAD) and source code for everyone to use, but before I can do that, I could use your suggestions overcoming a couple of roadblocks.

1. Documentation: The engineer in me wants to be complete as possible (assembly instructions with pictures, BOM, hardware manual, software manual, all the datasheets, etc.) but the human in me gets overwhelmed thinking about how much more time it will take. Ugh, I wish I could borrow a tech writer. What documentation do you guys think is required?

2. Licensing: The simplest choice is to follow Arduino's example, releasing the design files under Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license, and the source code under the GPL and LGPL, but I know there are many other choices. Anyone have advice on open source licensing?

3. Disclaimer: "This is dangerous stuff, etc., etc."

4. Hosting: Github, bitbucket, somewhere else?

[Pete Prodoehl]

Release early, Release often.


Pete

[Poleguy]

I would recommend:

1. Documentation:

a. Put together placeholders documents for everything you eventually want. (assembly, BOM, hardware manual, software manual, list of datasheets)

b. Add to these placeholders everything you have readily available.

c. Create a top level block block diagram for hardware and software manuals.

d. Clearly indicate in the placeholder documentation anything that is known to be missing/lacking.

e. Package all documentation together and release ASAP.

f. Add other information as users request it or as you need it yourself. Release often.

 

2-4. No comment.

[Tim Miller]

if you dont want others to sell it you can use creative commons non commercial share alike 

--

[Joe Kerman]

Be careful with cc non commercial.  It doesn't just prevent selling the design,  it prevents *use* of the design related to making money.  (Don't forget most hackerspaces are corporations! Non profit ones,  but still possibly violating ccnc!). Throw in ppprs and our commercial sponsors.  And makerfaire, a commercial venture,  and it's a whole ball o wax.  

And on top of all that,  cc should not be used for hardware designs, from cc's own recommendation.  The courts have yet to bear out how the gpl applies to hardware.  But that may be a good sign that it is appropriate

If you can make placeholder docs,  I'd love to help put them together.  I need more projects I can do from home lately.  

[Pete Prodoehl]

I am not a lawyer (yet), but I would argue that anyone using the controller for PPPRS would be fine if using it for the races.

Here's a bit from the CC-NC license:

   "...primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation."

There is no "prize money" for PPPRS, and I'm not sure that any team is making money from PPPRS.

I have seen people use restrictive licenses for software (I'm not a fan of it) when they are still developing it, and want people to test & use it, but don't want it forked just quite yet, because they want some control over it until it is released... It sounds like Alex fits that model.


Pete

[Tim Miller]

Not lawyer view on this is The thing about licensing is that it is easy to open up but harder to close

[Josh Krueger]

Documentation: Start with just a README - brief but detailed, clearly note what it CAN and SHOULD do, especially what it CAN'T do and any other non-obvious technical limitations. If there are specific restrictions on types or quality of certain electrical components, say so. Include a BOM, whatever can be exported from Eagle should be fine for a first revision. The design files and firmware source code should be enough documentation for anyone who wants to use the first release. Basic operational information: where to plug in what kinds of wires.

Licensing: There are a few hardware specific licenses. They are short enough to read and comprehend in a few minutes. If the hardware specific licenses align with what you want, license the hardware under one of those and treat the firmware as a reference implementation and just slap an MIT or BSD license on them. MIT and BSD are like 10 lines of text, very clear cut.

Disclaimer: The disclaimer on the BSD license should be sufficient. http://opensource.org/licenses/BSD-2-Clause (at the bottom, in full blown yelling caps lock)

Hosting: Github. Don't even think about hosting it anywhere else. Bitbucket sucks just as much as the rest of Atlassian's software. Google code is a joke.

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[T Davis]

I think you built a solid item. If you can release what you got the we can help with the rest. As far as that legal crap Good luck.