So part of the discussion last night was whether we could build a computer from the ground up, start with hardware, then evolve into a full operating system.
As far as I see it, we either start with an off the shelf ARM, these are pretty cheap and powerful, or if we really want to start from scratch, we could use a FPGA, and design a processor from logic gates upwards.
its a small course on how to start with NAND gates, and works up to developing a simple operating system, culminating in the development of Tetris to run on it.
FPGAs are fairly cheap to use, and have the advantage of being infinitely customisable.
That's a brilliant idea, I like the idea of a course that teaches you all
the elements of building a computer from the ground up. However, do you
have something tangible at the end of it?
By the way, I had a look into ARM again and I found that in 2006, ARM's
licensing revenues for processor cores were £65.2 million, in a year when
65 processor licenses were signed, an average of £1 million per license.
Don't let that put you off. There's still things that can be done. Whether
it’s an off the shelf chip, or via an ARM development programme or by
partnering with an existing licensee to get them to produce the chip.
I'm pretty keen to use and learn more about the ARM architecture because I
really believe it's the future of modern computing, it's winning the war
against Intel because of it's low heat and low power consumption. I also
love it's British heritage. Having said that I know next to nothing about
FPGA and wouldn't be opposed to learning about it either.
Anyway, I figured there's 5 elements to a project like this...
1, SoC: chip architecture
2, Board: hardware engineering
3, Case: designing, moulding
4, Operating System: software engineering, programming, user interface
design
5, Human interface device: a project in itself
There's lots of areas we can already come in at by using an existing board
such as the raspberry pi, curbie board, etc. For example:
Using a 3D printer would be perfect for making a case. You can take this as
far as you want to go, designing it with a USB hub included too if you
wanted.
Building an operating system from scratch, or stripping back an existing
one to be uber quick is something that might be cool.
There's lots of scope in this project for everyone get involved and to take
it as far as they want and have something to be proud to show to friends
and family in the end.
On 1 November 2012 10:12, Si_halliday <simonjhalli...@aol.com> wrote:
> So part of the discussion last night was whether we could build a computer
> from the ground up, start with hardware, then evolve into a full operating
> system.
> As far as I see it, we either start with an off the shelf ARM, these are
> pretty cheap and powerful, or if we really want to start from scratch, we
> could use a FPGA, and design a processor from logic gates upwards.
> its a small course on how to start with NAND gates, and works up to
> developing a simple operating system, culminating in the development of
> Tetris to run on it.
> FPGAs are fairly cheap to use, and have the advantage of being infinitely
> customisable.
> --
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I also managed to find a couple of UK based semiconductor companies, Imagination Technologies and CSR, but it is my understanding that they are "fabless", they outsource the fabrication or manufacturing to Chinese based semiconductor fabrication plant or foundry. With that in mind, it's probably just as easy to pick one off the shelf, as they are all "made in China" anyway.
The best you'll get is designed in the UK, but that's OK, we can cope with that.
On Thursday, 1 November 2012 10:12:32 UTC, Si_halliday wrote:
> So part of the discussion last night was whether we could build a computer > from the ground up, start with hardware, then evolve into a full operating > system.
> As far as I see it, we either start with an off the shelf ARM, these are > pretty cheap and powerful, or if we really want to start from scratch, we > could use a FPGA, and design a processor from logic gates upwards.
> its a small course on how to start with NAND gates, and works up to > developing a simple operating system, culminating in the development of > Tetris to run on it.
> FPGAs are fairly cheap to use, and have the advantage of being infinitely > customisable.
I really like the idea of a computer from scratch. As I have mentioned to a few of you I have been looking at OS development for a while now. My only concern is that it would be ages before we had much to show for it. That said I would still really enjoy it.
Off the shelf ARM and FPGA are both great ideas, though I would lean more towards the ARM I would really enjoy learning about either (I intend to learn about both at some point).
I think cost involved in buying and programming whichever should be thought about carefully. In my eyes we would get a lot more out of it if those who are interested can afford to get their own chip/programmer/whatever. That way people can add to and play about with it on their own and show off the cool mods they made the next time we meet. After all that is one of the really cool things about the Pi.
You're right. This project would be more of a "long game" and I see this
running in parallel with other projects people have mentioned.
However, the beauty of this project is that there's a clear vision, we know
what to aim for, we can keep reaching for it and take it as far as we want
to go with it once we've built a prototype.
I see it this way. If I can make something I want to see in my living room
and my family and friends actually understand what it is or what they can
do with it, it's a winner.
First of, there's some stuff we can do for free, for example, building the
OS comes at no cost, apart from your time, it can be done in spare time and
showcased at HackSpace for peer review.
It's absolutely crucial that we show people what we can do by showing them
something tactile. Building a 3D printer is essential as this can be used
to prototype a case for this project and used in other projects alike.
I think it goes without saying that if you want something at the end of it,
you'll have to buy the parts yourself. However, costs of the tools and
machinery such as the 3D printer would need to be shared really so everyone
can make use of them.
It may also be a good idea to see who wants what parts so we can bulk
order, even if it is just 10, it will be cheaper than buying 1. Especially
if we're importing anything from China.
For now, I'm hoping to focus on building a 3D printer, playing with ARM
OS's/browsers and toying with and researching various hardware (ARM chip,
screens, human interface devices/bluetooth), all of which can be done with
the Raspberry Pi.
I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited.
On 1 November 2012 19:50, Dan R <daniel.robinso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I really like the idea of a computer from scratch. As I have mentioned to
> a few of you I have been looking at OS development for a while now. My only
> concern is that it would be ages before we had much to show for it. That
> said I would still really enjoy it.
> Off the shelf ARM and FPGA are both great ideas, though I would lean more
> towards the ARM I would really enjoy learning about either (I intend to
> learn about both at some point).
> I think cost involved in buying and programming whichever should be
> thought about carefully. In my eyes we would get a lot more out of it if
> those who are interested can afford to get their own
> chip/programmer/whatever. That way people can add to and play about with it
> on their own and show off the cool mods they made the next time we meet.
> After all that is one of the really cool things about the Pi.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Potteries Hackspace" group.
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Also it may be better to do it all on the ARM first, then eventually look at building a processor from scratch in the FPGA, and porting it over.
Ive also got a small FPGA test board I built ages ago with a 1.7" OLED display on it, ill see if it still works, if so im sure this could find its way into the hackspace dev kit :), if people like it, I think ive got 4 more unbuilt boards knocking around..
James Wade <jpsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>You're right. This project would be more of a "long game" and I see
>this
>running in parallel with other projects people have mentioned.
>However, the beauty of this project is that there's a clear vision, we
>know
>what to aim for, we can keep reaching for it and take it as far as we
>want
>to go with it once we've built a prototype.
>I see it this way. If I can make something I want to see in my living
>room
>and my family and friends actually understand what it is or what they
>can
>do with it, it's a winner.
>First of, there's some stuff we can do for free, for example, building
>the
>OS comes at no cost, apart from your time, it can be done in spare time
>and
>showcased at HackSpace for peer review.
>It's absolutely crucial that we show people what we can do by showing
>them
>something tactile. Building a 3D printer is essential as this can be
>used
>to prototype a case for this project and used in other projects alike.
>I think it goes without saying that if you want something at the end of
>it,
>you'll have to buy the parts yourself. However, costs of the tools and
>machinery such as the 3D printer would need to be shared really so
>everyone
>can make use of them.
>It may also be a good idea to see who wants what parts so we can bulk
>order, even if it is just 10, it will be cheaper than buying 1.
>Especially
>if we're importing anything from China.
>For now, I'm hoping to focus on building a 3D printer, playing with ARM
>OS's/browsers and toying with and researching various hardware (ARM
>chip,
>screens, human interface devices/bluetooth), all of which can be done
>with
>the Raspberry Pi.
>I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited.
>On 1 November 2012 19:50, Dan R <daniel.robinso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I really like the idea of a computer from scratch. As I have
>mentioned to
>> a few of you I have been looking at OS development for a while now.
>My only
>> concern is that it would be ages before we had much to show for it.
>That
>> said I would still really enjoy it.
>> Off the shelf ARM and FPGA are both great ideas, though I would lean
>more
>> towards the ARM I would really enjoy learning about either (I intend
>to
>> learn about both at some point).
>> I think cost involved in buying and programming whichever should be
>> thought about carefully. In my eyes we would get a lot more out of it
>if
>> those who are interested can afford to get their own
>> chip/programmer/whatever. That way people can add to and play about
>with it
>> on their own and show off the cool mods they made the next time we
>meet.
>> After all that is one of the really cool things about the Pi.
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>Groups
>> "Potteries Hackspace" group.
>> To post to this group, send an email to
>> potteries-hackspace@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> potteries-hackspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/potteries-hackspace?hl=en-GB.
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Sounds good, I'd like to see if we could also develop a opensource ARM or FPGA programmer to use for this, a commercial fpga one runs about 100 quid, I've got one we could always use for now though.
I'm also hoping to learn some more about ARM, it was going to be my next step at work..
Texas Instruments and I think ST have free development suites for their parts, Im not sure if you can use Eclipse as well.. I looked at some comprehensive suites for every ARM out there, but they are veeery expensive.
The beauty about ARM is they start small and cheap, (8 pin, about 30p), so they can replace PIC processors, then you can move up through the ranks to RaspPi kind of power.
Ive also got a small ST development board I'd be happy to donate, it would be a start. Its only got a small ARM on it, but we could get blinky lights going.
So what would people like to use the PotteriesOS for? I'd be interested in developing some home automation for it, maybe a X10 interface? What about getting to the stage where you can run a desktop style GUI on it?
James Wade <jpsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>You're right. This project would be more of a "long game" and I see
>this
>running in parallel with other projects people have mentioned.
>However, the beauty of this project is that there's a clear vision, we
>know
>what to aim for, we can keep reaching for it and take it as far as we
>want
>to go with it once we've built a prototype.
>I see it this way. If I can make something I want to see in my living
>room
>and my family and friends actually understand what it is or what they
>can
>do with it, it's a winner.
>First of, there's some stuff we can do for free, for example, building
>the
>OS comes at no cost, apart from your time, it can be done in spare time
>and
>showcased at HackSpace for peer review.
>It's absolutely crucial that we show people what we can do by showing
>them
>something tactile. Building a 3D printer is essential as this can be
>used
>to prototype a case for this project and used in other projects alike.
>I think it goes without saying that if you want something at the end of
>it,
>you'll have to buy the parts yourself. However, costs of the tools and
>machinery such as the 3D printer would need to be shared really so
>everyone
>can make use of them.
>It may also be a good idea to see who wants what parts so we can bulk
>order, even if it is just 10, it will be cheaper than buying 1.
>Especially
>if we're importing anything from China.
>For now, I'm hoping to focus on building a 3D printer, playing with ARM
>OS's/browsers and toying with and researching various hardware (ARM
>chip,
>screens, human interface devices/bluetooth), all of which can be done
>with
>the Raspberry Pi.
>I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited.
>On 1 November 2012 19:50, Dan R <daniel.robinso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I really like the idea of a computer from scratch. As I have
>mentioned to
>> a few of you I have been looking at OS development for a while now.
>My only
>> concern is that it would be ages before we had much to show for it.
>That
>> said I would still really enjoy it.
>> Off the shelf ARM and FPGA are both great ideas, though I would lean
>more
>> towards the ARM I would really enjoy learning about either (I intend
>to
>> learn about both at some point).
>> I think cost involved in buying and programming whichever should be
>> thought about carefully. In my eyes we would get a lot more out of it
>if
>> those who are interested can afford to get their own
>> chip/programmer/whatever. That way people can add to and play about
>with it
>> on their own and show off the cool mods they made the next time we
>meet.
>> After all that is one of the really cool things about the Pi.
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>Groups
>> "Potteries Hackspace" group.
>> To post to this group, send an email to
>> potteries-hackspace@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> potteries-hackspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/potteries-hackspace?hl=en-GB.
>-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>Groups "Potteries Hackspace" group.
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>Visit this group at
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I've been looking at a few options, trying to learn about the various ARM chips out on the market, look at importing costs of systems out there to get an idea of how it can (but shouldn't) be done.
I quite like the "Allwinner A10", there seems to be plenty of support for it already which gives you a little boost. I like this chip because it's got HDMI and SATA. It's used on tablets (eg: M009S) and Android "sticks" (eg: MK802) as well as boards such as curbieboard.
My only issue now is that I think it could well be already a little dated, so I'm exploring new options.
I then went back to checking on alibaba how much it would be to import an ARM chip, and then went on to look at Farnell.
So I assume this is similar to what you're talking about?
I think it'd be fun to start with the basics, get the chip to light something up or whatever, then work upwards.
As for the OS, my primary objective is to get it to load an Internet browser and load it fast. I mainly want to get to a point where it sits in my living room and plugs into my TV so I can stream music or video.
I realise there's things on the market that can do this already (to a degree), but I'm really keen to do this from scratch (or as much as possible).
I see the RISC OS has now come to Pi, I imagine that would be a great starting point for us to learn about for building an OS or we could look at Linux based options.
Anyway, the world is our oyster on this project and I guess that's why it's so interesting.
I've also see the EVE box which is an expansion board and case for the Pi, which allows for home automation and uses Zigbee technology to do it (among others), so we could certainly look at that kinda thing too, eventually...
On Friday, 2 November 2012 11:23:49 UTC, Si_halliday wrote:
> Sounds good, I'd like to see if we could also develop a opensource ARM or > FPGA programmer to use for this, a commercial fpga one runs about 100 quid, > I've got one we could always use for now though.
> I'm also hoping to learn some more about ARM, it was going to be my next > step at work..
> Texas Instruments and I think ST have free development suites for their > parts, Im not sure if you can use Eclipse as well.. I looked at some > comprehensive suites for every ARM out there, but they are veeery expensive.
> The beauty about ARM is they start small and cheap, (8 pin, about 30p), so > they can replace PIC processors, then you can move up through the ranks to > RaspPi kind of power.
> Ive also got a small ST development board I'd be happy to donate, it would > be a start. Its only got a small ARM on it, but we could get blinky lights > going.
> So what would people like to use the PotteriesOS for? I'd be interested in > developing some home automation for it, maybe a X10 interface? What about > getting to the stage where you can run a desktop style GUI on it?
> James Wade <jps...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>> You're right. This project would be more of a "long game" and I see this >> running in parallel with other projects people have mentioned.
>> However, the beauty of this project is that there's a clear vision, we >> know what to aim for, we can keep reaching for it and take it as far as we >> want to go with it once we've built a prototype.
>> I see it this way. If I can make something I want to see in my living >> room and my family and friends actually understand what it is or what they >> can do with it, it's a winner.
>> First of, there's some stuff we can do for free, for example, building >> the OS comes at no cost, apart from your time, it can be done in spare time >> and showcased at HackSpace for peer review.
>> It's absolutely crucial that we show people what we can do by showing >> them something tactile. Building a 3D printer is essential as this can be >> used to prototype a case for this project and used in other projects alike.
>> I think it goes without saying that if you want something at the end of >> it, you'll have to buy the parts yourself. However, costs of the tools and >> machinery such as the 3D printer would need to be shared really so everyone >> can make use of them.
>> It may also be a good idea to see who wants what parts so we can bulk >> order, even if it is just 10, it will be cheaper than buying 1. Especially >> if we're importing anything from China.
>> For now, I'm hoping to focus on building a 3D printer, playing with ARM >> OS's/browsers and toying with and researching various hardware (ARM chip, >> screens, human interface devices/bluetooth), all of which can be done with >> the Raspberry Pi.
>> I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited.
>> On 1 November 2012 19:50, Dan R <daniel.r...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>>> I really like the idea of a computer from scratch. As I have mentioned >>> to a few of you I have been looking at OS development for a while now. My >>> only concern is that it would be ages before we had much to show for it. >>> That said I would still really enjoy it.
>>> Off the shelf ARM and FPGA are both great ideas, though I would lean >>> more towards the ARM I would really enjoy learning about either (I intend >>> to learn about both at some point).
>>> I think cost involved in buying and programming whichever should be >>> thought about carefully. In my eyes we would get a lot more out of it if >>> those who are interested can afford to get their own >>> chip/programmer/whatever. That way people can add to and play about with it >>> on their own and show off the cool mods they made the next time we meet. >>> After all that is one of the really cool things about the Pi.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Potteries Hackspace" group. >>> To post to this group, send an email to potteries...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> potteries-hackspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. >>> Visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/potteries-hackspace?hl=en-GB.
> -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Hi,
Its a little confusing knowing where to start, as you've probably realised theres a lot of ARM out there. One company to look at is Texas Instruments, http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/arm/overview.page
As you can see, you can start small and cheaply, then move on to the beast processors. They also do a free version of their development software, not sure how good it is though.
I've a couple of smaller development kits than that, Ill dig them out and bring them down.
I agree, be worth getting a LED to flash first, to verify we can compile and program them before going bigger.
You can also use the Pi in a bare metal mode, where you develop code without a OS. This could be a place to start also as the hardware is built and tested and is cheap..
Home Automation is something I'm very interested in, the EVE looks cool and cheap enough. The RF modules are pretty good prices to, about �6 for the 433MHz transcievers.. Could be very useful for Robots as well.
> I've been looking at a few options, trying to learn about the various > ARM chips out on the market, look at importing costs of systems out > there to get an idea of how it can (but shouldn't) be done.
> I quite like the "Allwinner A10", there seems to be plenty of support > for it already which gives you a little boost. I like this chip > because it's got HDMI and SATA. It's used on tablets (eg: M009S) and > Android "sticks" (eg: MK802) as well as boards such as curbieboard.
> My only issue now is that I think it could well be already a little > dated, so I'm exploring new options.
> I then went back to checking on alibaba how much it would be to import > an ARM chip, and then went on to look at Farnell.
> So I assume this is similar to what you're talking about?
> I think it'd be fun to start with the basics, get the chip to light > something up or whatever, then work upwards.
> As for the OS, my primary objective is to get it to load an Internet > browser and load it fast. I mainly want to get to a point where it > sits in my living room and plugs into my TV so I can stream music or > video.
> I realise there's things on the market that can do this already (to a > degree), but I'm really keen to do this from scratch (or as much as > possible).
> I see the RISC OS has now come to Pi, I imagine that would be a great > starting point for us to learn about for building an OS or we could > look at Linux based options.
> Anyway, the world is our oyster on this project and I guess that's why > it's so interesting.
> I've also see the EVE box which is an expansion board and case for the > Pi, which allows for home automation and uses Zigbee technology to do > it (among others), so we could certainly look at that kinda thing too, > eventually...
> On Friday, 2 November 2012 11:23:49 UTC, Si_halliday wrote:
> Sounds good, I'd like to see if we could also develop a opensource
> ARM or FPGA programmer to use for this, a commercial fpga one runs
> about 100 quid, I've got one we could always use for now though.
> I'm also hoping to learn some more about ARM, it was going to be
> my next step at work..
> Texas Instruments and I think ST have free development suites for
> their parts, Im not sure if you can use Eclipse as well.. I looked
> at some comprehensive suites for every ARM out there, but they are
> veeery expensive.
> The beauty about ARM is they start small and cheap, (8 pin, about
> 30p), so they can replace PIC processors, then you can move up
> through the ranks to RaspPi kind of power.
> Ive also got a small ST development board I'd be happy to donate,
> it would be a start. Its only got a small ARM on it, but we could
> get blinky lights going.
> So what would people like to use the PotteriesOS for? I'd be
> interested in developing some home automation for it, maybe a X10
> interface? What about getting to the stage where you can run a
> desktop style GUI on it?
> James Wade <jps...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
> You're right. This project would be more of a "long game" and
> I see this running in parallel with other projects people have
> mentioned.
> However, the beauty of this project is that there's a clear
> vision, we know what to aim for, we can keep reaching for it
> and take it as far as we want to go with it once we've built a
> prototype.
> I see it this way. If I can make something I want to see in my
> living room and my family and friends actually understand what
> it is or what they can do with it, it's a winner.
> First of, there's some stuff we can do for free, for example,
> building the OS comes at no cost, apart from your time, it can
> be done in spare time and showcased at HackSpace for peer review.
> It's absolutely crucial that we show people what we can do by
> showing them something tactile. Building a 3D printer is
> essential as this can be used to prototype a case for this
> project and used in other projects alike.
> I think it goes without saying that if you want something at
> the end of it, you'll have to buy the parts yourself. However,
> costs of the tools and machinery such as the 3D printer would
> need to be shared really so everyone can make use of them.
> It may also be a good idea to see who wants what parts so we
> can bulk order, even if it is just 10, it will be cheaper than
> buying 1. Especially if we're importing anything from China.
> For now, I'm hoping to focus on building a 3D printer, playing
> with ARM OS's/browsers and toying with and researching various
> hardware (ARM chip, screens, human interface
> devices/bluetooth), all of which can be done with the
> Raspberry Pi.
> I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited.
> On 1 November 2012 19:50, Dan R <daniel.r...@gmail.com
> <javascript:>> wrote:
> I really like the idea of a computer from scratch. As I
> have mentioned to a few of you I have been looking at OS
> development for a while now. My only concern is that it
> would be ages before we had much to show for it. That said
> I would still really enjoy it.
> Off the shelf ARM and FPGA are both great ideas, though I
> would lean more towards the ARM I would really enjoy
> learning about either (I intend to learn about both at
> some point).
> I think cost involved in buying and programming whichever
> should be thought about carefully. In my eyes we would get
> a lot more out of it if those who are interested can
> afford to get their own chip/programmer/whatever. That way
> people can add to and play about with it on their own and
> show off the cool mods they made the next time we meet.
> After all that is one of the really cool things about the Pi.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to
> the Google Groups "Potteries Hackspace" group.
> To post to this group, send an email to
> potteries...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> potteries-hackspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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Yeah I like TI, I've had a TI calculator and laptop in the past...
However, my concern is that TI is obviously a US based company, so I imagine they take their cut while sending the chips to you, while the Chinese based companies who actually own the fabs might work out cheaper.
I've not seen many TI chips in use, compared to say the Allwinner chip. I've also seen this in loads of hardware and seen an open source linux kernel.
> Hi,
> Its a little confusing knowing where to start, as you've > probably realised theres a lot of ARM out there. One company to look > at is Texas Instruments, http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/arm/overview.page
> As you can see, you can start small and cheaply, then move on to the > beast processors. They also do a free version of their development > software, not sure how good it is though.
> I've a couple of smaller development kits than that, Ill dig them out > and bring them down.
> I agree, be worth getting a LED to flash first, to verify we can > compile and program them before going bigger.
> You can also use the Pi in a bare metal mode, where you develop code > without a OS. This could be a place to start also as the hardware is > built and tested and is cheap..
> Home Automation is something I'm very interested in, the EVE looks > cool and cheap enough. The RF modules are pretty good prices to, > about �6 for the 433MHz transcievers.. Could be very useful for Robots > as well.
> Cheers
> Si
> On 07/11/2012 13:36, James Wade wrote:
>> Hi Si,
>> I've been looking at a few options, trying to learn about the various >> ARM chips out on the market, look at importing costs of systems out >> there to get an idea of how it can (but shouldn't) be done.
>> I quite like the "Allwinner A10", there seems to be plenty of support >> for it already which gives you a little boost. I like this chip >> because it's got HDMI and SATA. It's used on tablets (eg: M009S) and >> Android "sticks" (eg: MK802) as well as boards such as curbieboard.
>> My only issue now is that I think it could well be already a little >> dated, so I'm exploring new options.
>> I then went back to checking on alibaba how much it would be to >> import an ARM chip, and then went on to look at Farnell.
>> So I assume this is similar to what you're talking about?
>> I think it'd be fun to start with the basics, get the chip to light >> something up or whatever, then work upwards.
>> As for the OS, my primary objective is to get it to load an Internet >> browser and load it fast. I mainly want to get to a point where it >> sits in my living room and plugs into my TV so I can stream music or >> video.
>> I realise there's things on the market that can do this already (to a >> degree), but I'm really keen to do this from scratch (or as much as >> possible).
>> I see the RISC OS has now come to Pi, I imagine that would be a great >> starting point for us to learn about for building an OS or we could >> look at Linux based options.
>> Anyway, the world is our oyster on this project and I guess that's >> why it's so interesting.
>> I've also see the EVE box which is an expansion board and case for >> the Pi, which allows for home automation and uses Zigbee technology >> to do it (among others), so we could certainly look at that kinda >> thing too, eventually...
>> On Friday, 2 November 2012 11:23:49 UTC, Si_halliday wrote:
>> Sounds good, I'd like to see if we could also develop a
>> opensource ARM or FPGA programmer to use for this, a commercial
>> fpga one runs about 100 quid, I've got one we could always use
>> for now though.
>> I'm also hoping to learn some more about ARM, it was going to be
>> my next step at work..
>> Texas Instruments and I think ST have free development suites for
>> their parts, Im not sure if you can use Eclipse as well.. I
>> looked at some comprehensive suites for every ARM out there, but
>> they are veeery expensive.
>> The beauty about ARM is they start small and cheap, (8 pin, about
>> 30p), so they can replace PIC processors, then you can move up
>> through the ranks to RaspPi kind of power.
>> Ive also got a small ST development board I'd be happy to donate,
>> it would be a start. Its only got a small ARM on it, but we could
>> get blinky lights going.
>> So what would people like to use the PotteriesOS for? I'd be
>> interested in developing some home automation for it, maybe a X10
>> interface? What about getting to the stage where you can run a
>> desktop style GUI on it?
>> James Wade <jps...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>> You're right. This project would be more of a "long game" and
>> I see this running in parallel with other projects people
>> have mentioned.
>> However, the beauty of this project is that there's a clear
>> vision, we know what to aim for, we can keep reaching for it
>> and take it as far as we want to go with it once we've built
>> a prototype.
>> I see it this way. If I can make something I want to see in
>> my living room and my family and friends actually understand
>> what it is or what they can do with it, it's a winner.
>> First of, there's some stuff we can do for free, for example,
>> building the OS comes at no cost, apart from your time, it
>> can be done in spare time and showcased at HackSpace for peer
>> review.
>> It's absolutely crucial that we show people what we can do by
>> showing them something tactile. Building a 3D printer is
>> essential as this can be used to prototype a case for this
>> project and used in other projects alike.
>> I think it goes without saying that if you want something at
>> the end of it, you'll have to buy the parts yourself.
>> However, costs of the tools and machinery such as the 3D
>> printer would need to be shared really so everyone can make
>> use of them.
>> It may also be a good idea to see who wants what parts so we
>> can bulk order, even if it is just 10, it will be cheaper
>> than buying 1. Especially if we're importing anything from China.
>> For now, I'm hoping to focus on building a 3D printer,
>> playing with ARM OS's/browsers and toying with and
>> researching various hardware (ARM chip, screens, human
>> interface devices/bluetooth), all of which can be done with
>> the Raspberry Pi.
>> I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited.
>> On 1 November 2012 19:50, Dan R <daniel.r...@gmail.com
>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>> I really like the idea of a computer from scratch. As I
>> have mentioned to a few of you I have been looking at OS
>> development for a while now. My only concern is that it
>> would be ages before we had much to show for it. That
>> said I would still really enjoy it.
>> Off the shelf ARM and FPGA are both great ideas, though I
>> would lean more towards the ARM I would really enjoy
>> learning about either (I intend to learn about both at
>> some point).
>> I think cost involved in buying and programming whichever
>> should be thought about carefully. In my eyes we would
>> get a lot more out of it if those who are interested can
>> afford to get their own chip/programmer/whatever. That
>> way people can add to and play about with it on their own
>> and show off the cool mods they made the next time we
>> meet. After all that is one of the really cool things
>> about the Pi.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>> the Google Groups "Potteries Hackspace" group.
>> To post to this group, send an email to
>> potteries...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> potteries-hackspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> <javascript:>.
>> Visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/potteries-hackspace?hl=en-GB >> <http://groups.google.com/group/potteries-hackspace?hl=en-GB>.
>> -- >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Potteries Hackspace" group.
What I'm liking about those beasts is the package. TQFP, yes please... Almost all chips that size/power are BGAs, which, while solderable, are a bit tricky....
> Yeah I like TI, I've had a TI calculator and laptop in the past...
> However, my concern is that TI is obviously a US based company, so I > imagine they take their cut while sending the chips to you, while the > Chinese based companies who actually own the fabs might work out cheaper.
> I've not seen many TI chips in use, compared to say the Allwinner > chip. I've also seen this in loads of hardware and seen an open source > linux kernel.
> Oh wow, I've just come across something else ...
> It's an entirely open source (hardware and software) computer, based > around the Allwinner chips.
> You can even download the board schematics. Incredible!
> Anyway...
> Yeah I'd love to see the development kits and have a play with Pi at > bare metal level, so yeah bring what you have along and we'll see how > far we get.
> Cheers!
> On 07/11/2012 14:00, Simon Halliday wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Its a little confusing knowing where to start, as you've >> probably realised theres a lot of ARM out there. One company to look >> at is Texas Instruments, http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/arm/overview.page
>> As you can see, you can start small and cheaply, then move on to the >> beast processors. They also do a free version of their development >> software, not sure how good it is though.
>> I've a couple of smaller development kits than that, Ill dig them out >> and bring them down.
>> I agree, be worth getting a LED to flash first, to verify we can >> compile and program them before going bigger.
>> You can also use the Pi in a bare metal mode, where you develop code >> without a OS. This could be a place to start also as the hardware is >> built and tested and is cheap..
>> Home Automation is something I'm very interested in, the EVE looks >> cool and cheap enough. The RF modules are pretty good prices to, >> about �6 for the 433MHz transcievers.. Could be very useful for >> Robots as well.
>> Cheers
>> Si
>> On 07/11/2012 13:36, James Wade wrote:
>>> Hi Si,
>>> I've been looking at a few options, trying to learn about the >>> various ARM chips out on the market, look at importing costs of >>> systems out there to get an idea of how it can (but shouldn't) be done.
>>> I quite like the "Allwinner A10", there seems to be plenty of >>> support for it already which gives you a little boost. I like this >>> chip because it's got HDMI and SATA. It's used on tablets (eg: >>> M009S) and Android "sticks" (eg: MK802) as well as boards such as >>> curbieboard.
>>> My only issue now is that I think it could well be already a little >>> dated, so I'm exploring new options.
>>> I then went back to checking on alibaba how much it would be to >>> import an ARM chip, and then went on to look at Farnell.
>>> Then I came across various "development kits":
>>> So I assume this is similar to what you're talking about?
>>> I think it'd be fun to start with the basics, get the chip to light >>> something up or whatever, then work upwards.
>>> As for the OS, my primary objective is to get it to load an Internet >>> browser and load it fast. I mainly want to get to a point where it >>> sits in my living room and plugs into my TV so I can stream music or >>> video.
>>> I realise there's things on the market that can do this already (to >>> a degree), but I'm really keen to do this from scratch (or as much >>> as possible).
>>> I see the RISC OS has now come to Pi, I imagine that would be a >>> great starting point for us to learn about for building an OS or we >>> could look at Linux based options.
>>> Anyway, the world is our oyster on this project and I guess that's >>> why it's so interesting.
>>> I've also see the EVE box which is an expansion board and case for >>> the Pi, which allows for home automation and uses Zigbee technology >>> to do it (among others), so we could certainly look at that kinda >>> thing too, eventually...
>>> On Friday, 2 November 2012 11:23:49 UTC, Si_halliday wrote:
>>> Sounds good, I'd like to see if we could also develop a
>>> opensource ARM or FPGA programmer to use for this, a commercial
>>> fpga one runs about 100 quid, I've got one we could always use
>>> for now though.
>>> I'm also hoping to learn some more about ARM, it was going to be
>>> my next step at work..
>>> Texas Instruments and I think ST have free development suites
>>> for their parts, Im not sure if you can use Eclipse as well.. I
>>> looked at some comprehensive suites for every ARM out there, but
>>> they are veeery expensive.
>>> The beauty about ARM is they start small and cheap, (8 pin,
>>> about 30p), so they can replace PIC processors, then you can
>>> move up through the ranks to RaspPi kind of power.
>>> Ive also got a small ST development board I'd be happy to
>>> donate, it would be a start. Its only got a small ARM on it, but
>>> we could get blinky lights going.
>>> So what would people like to use the PotteriesOS for? I'd be
>>> interested in developing some home automation for it, maybe a
>>> X10 interface? What about getting to the stage where you can run
>>> a desktop style GUI on it?
>>> James Wade <jps...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>>> You're right. This project would be more of a "long game"
>>> and I see this running in parallel with other projects
>>> people have mentioned.
>>> However, the beauty of this project is that there's a clear
>>> vision, we know what to aim for, we can keep reaching for it
>>> and take it as far as we want to go with it once we've built
>>> a prototype.
>>> I see it this way. If I can make something I want to see in
>>> my living room and my family and friends actually understand
>>> what it is or what they can do with it, it's a winner.
>>> First of, there's some stuff we can do for free, for
>>> example, building the OS comes at no cost, apart from your
>>> time, it can be done in spare time and showcased at
>>> HackSpace for peer review.
>>> It's absolutely crucial that we show people what we can do
>>> by showing them something tactile. Building a 3D printer is
>>> essential as this can be used to prototype a case for this
>>> project and used in other projects alike.
>>> I think it goes without saying that if you want something at
>>> the end of it, you'll have to buy the parts yourself.
>>> However, costs of the tools and machinery such as the 3D
>>> printer would need to be shared really so everyone can make
>>> use of them.
>>> It may also be a good idea to see who wants what parts so we
>>> can bulk order, even if it is just 10, it will be cheaper
>>> than buying 1. Especially if we're importing anything from
>>> China.
>>> For now, I'm hoping to focus on building a 3D printer,
>>> playing with ARM OS's/browsers and toying with and
>>> researching various hardware (ARM chip, screens, human
>>> interface devices/bluetooth), all of which can be done with
>>> the Raspberry Pi.
>>> I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited.
>>> On 1 November 2012 19:50, Dan R <daniel.r...@gmail.com
>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>> I really like the idea of a computer from scratch. As I
>>> have mentioned to a few of you I have been looking at OS
>>> development for a while now. My only concern is that it
>>> would be ages before we had much to show for it. That
>>> said I would still really enjoy it.
>>> Off the shelf ARM and FPGA are both great ideas, though
>>> I would lean more towards the ARM I would really enjoy
>>> learning about either (I intend to learn about both at
>>> some point).
>>> I think cost involved in buying and programming
>>> whichever should be thought about carefully. In my eyes
>>> we would get a lot more out of it if those who are
>>> interested can afford to get their own
>>> chip/programmer/whatever. That way people can add to and
>>> play about with it on their own and show off the cool
>>> mods they made the next time we meet. After all that is
>>> one of the really cool things about the Pi.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>> the Google Groups "Potteries Hackspace" group.
>>> To post to this group, send an email to
>>> potteries...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
