Fast Adaption
Oki O'Connor
Ken Earl
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wonder if its even necessary to stick to a strict schedule when doing
uberman. Once you're good at taking naps couldn't you just take a nap
when you feel tired instead of conditioning yourself to take naps at
certain times?
On Dec 22, 3:40 am, "Oki O'Connor" <biochem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I started a thread by this name a few months ago.
>
> (http://groups.google.com/group/polyphasic/browse_thread/thread/490a50...
> )
>
> Steve Pavlina touches on this idea here:http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/10/polyphasic-sleep-log-day-3/
>
> I got some great feedback from y'all and did indeed proceed with the plan.
> I'm here to report that it works very well. I apologize that I did not
> report on it sooner. To refresh your memory the idea is based on a few
> simple facts and ideas:
>
> 1. Uberman adaption is faster than everyman.
> 2. More sleep is more comfortable than sleep deprivation (ie adaption).
> 3. More naps = more practice learning how to nap.
> 4. Some people "need" more sleep than others.
>
> I seem to be able to adapt basically fully in about 3 days. Also, those 3
> days are no where near as bad as the first time I adapted to uberman. This
> isn't a perfect experiment, however, because since I've successfully adapted
> before I'm obviously going to be "better" at it than I was the 1st time.
>
> To summarize, here's Oki's guide to Fast and Comfortable (er, less
> uncomfortable) Adaption:
>
> 1. Find out how much sleep your body needshttp://www.wikihow.com/Know-How-Much-Sleep-You-Need
Daniel Smith
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HalfABrain
anything to do with Circadian Rythms, but my body seems to get used to
pretty exact timing for my naps. If I'm strict, I have no problem
sleeping during my naps. If I'm more than about five minutes late,
sometimes I won't sleep at all for that nap. Daylight Savings Time
took me more than a week to re-adjust.
Maybe some of you guys can do free-running sleep, but I do better on
Uberman with strict evenly spaced naps. I did some extra ones in the
middle during adaptation, but they were in addition to my standard
naps, and only on the two hour intervals at night.
On Dec 22, 1:12 pm, Daniel Smith <dan...@lukenine45.net> wrote:
> I can't say for uberman, but on Everyman 3, my circadian rhythm has learned
> to anticipate my naps; I have a harder time falling asleep and don't sleep
> as well if I nap at other times. Also, my body judges time in some absolute
> manner, not relative (IOW, it's nap time at 7:10 AM, not 5 hours after my
> core, which means I can move one nap without affecting the time I should
> take the next one at). I have no idea how it does it, but it appears to be
> accurate to within five minutes. So, I think, if you do this, make sure the
> nap times you eventually want to have are always included and be strict
> about them, but erratic about the additional naps-- that should force your
> body to depend on the "good" naps.
>
> I elaborate on the circadian rhythm thing here, if you're interested:http://lavalamp.trypolyphasic.com/2009/12/16/polysleeping-lavalamps-o...
Aya Hu
never met a successful freerunner. I have never spoken to one. When
you are fully adapted to uberman, you do not 'get tired' EXCEPT at
naptime. It is easier to fully adapt to uberman on a strict schedule.
It's not impossible to adapt without one, but essentially the point of
adaptation is to tell your body it has 20 minutes, 6 times a day to
get X amount of sleep and that's IT. Your body can't learn without
repitition, if it randomly naps, it thinks it can randomly nap
anytime. That's why adding naps while adapting is a big "No-No".
As far as Uberman to Everyman, when I adapted I got very ill for a
while and took up Everyman for approximately a week. Then, I began to
train myself out of it. At first, I would set and alarm like normal
uberman, but I would always either sleep through this, or my body
would wake up and turn it off, and go back to bed without my
consent ;D After a week or two, I woke up from the alarm with no
problem and I was an uberman again. I couldn't stand the thought of
being an Everyman because I never wanted to have to say "It's bedtime"
or have to turn off the DVD player if I was in the middle of a DVD. I
wanted to be able to pause it for 20 minutes and come back. It worked
a lot better this way, I feel. The first day I everymaned felt
AWESOME, and you are right, you are almost fully adapted to it right
away after doing uberman for a week or two, because you can nap
instantly. Doing everyman only, it takes longer to learn to nap.
I beg to differ, however, that there is such thing as fast, or easy
adaptation. Name me one person who has been doing uberman for more
than three months who used this method? You probably cannot. It's true
you feel AWESOME the third day, and then day 9 comes and you feel like
a steamroller has pumelled you multiple times.
I would love to be wrong about this, that there were some secret, but
it took me 30 FULL DAYS before I stopped experiencing "Eye Lag", red
eyes, microsleeps, etc. 30 full days for my body to realize it was
never going to be able to sleep for 8 hours again.
That is all.
On Dec 22, 2:40 am, "Oki O'Connor" <biochem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I started a thread by this name a few months ago.
>
> (http://groups.google.com/group/polyphasic/browse_thread/thread/490a50...
> )
>
> Steve Pavlina touches on this idea here:http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/10/polyphasic-sleep-log-day-3/
>
> I got some great feedback from y'all and did indeed proceed with the plan.
> I'm here to report that it works very well. I apologize that I did not
> report on it sooner. To refresh your memory the idea is based on a few
> simple facts and ideas:
>
> 1. Uberman adaption is faster than everyman.
> 2. More sleep is more comfortable than sleep deprivation (ie adaption).
> 3. More naps = more practice learning how to nap.
> 4. Some people "need" more sleep than others.
>
> I seem to be able to adapt basically fully in about 3 days. Also, those 3
> days are no where near as bad as the first time I adapted to uberman. This
> isn't a perfect experiment, however, because since I've successfully adapted
> before I'm obviously going to be "better" at it than I was the 1st time.
>
> To summarize, here's Oki's guide to Fast and Comfortable (er, less
> uncomfortable) Adaption:
>
> 1. Find out how much sleep your body needshttp://www.wikihow.com/Know-How-Much-Sleep-You-Need
Oki
freerunning as a means of fast adaption. The way I see it you should
do the extra naps 1 of 2 ways:
1. Have a set schedule of naps (eg 4am, 8am, 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, 12am) and
then add naps 'as needed' (eg at 2am and 6am) during the early
adaption phase. This is what I did.
2. Start with a plan to take a set number of extra naps and stick to
it for a set amount of time (eg 4am, 6am, 8am, 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, 12am,
2am for 3 days).
In both cases, once you feel adapted (or your set amount of time has
elapsed), you *must* then train yourself to be on a 'normal'
polyphasic schedule (eg 4am, 8am, 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, 12am). I'm not
convinced that 6 naps was handed down by God to Moses on the Mount,
however, so I think that another 'normal' uberman for your body might
look like: 2am, 4am, 8am, 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, 12am.
Maybe with freerunning you could go from many naps to fewer, but I
tend to agree w/ Aya that it helps to train your body to sleep at
certain times and to try to stick to that routine.
Oki
Edward Anderson
several messups on my uberman attempt.
This time, I have week to get through the worst of adaptation, and I
want to make sure I can do it without messups. For this attempt, I'm
adding another nap at night, for a total of 7. The Nighttime and
daytime naps are both evenly spaced among themselves.
9:30a 1:30p 5:30p 9:30p 12:30a 3:30a 6:30a
I plan to keep this 7 nap schedule until at least a month in, when I
know I'm well adapted. I'll let you all know how it goes.
Edward
Edward Anderson
mean that every 12 hours, my body would have to adjust between 3 and 4
hour wake times. That's a lack of consistency that I think just might
make it impossible to adapt.
Edward
Daniel Smith
Aya Hu
nap. I sometimes nap at 4:30am, as well as my normal schedule. Not all
of my naps are 4 hours, some are 6 hours between, for work purposes. I
adapted this way, just fine, as long as you are strict, you should be
ok. Adaptation for regular people takes about 30 full days.
On Jan 4, 8:14 am, Daniel Smith <lukenin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it would probably still work, but another option would be to take
> six naps at 4 hour intervals and place an optional seventh one in between
> two regular naps. Maybe don't take the optional one at the same time every
> day, so that your body won't get too used to it.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Edward Anderson <nil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > After further though, I think that this is not a good idea. It would
> > mean that every 12 hours, my body would have to adjust between 3 and 4
> > hour wake times. That's a lack of consistency that I think just might
> > make it impossible to adapt.
>
> > Edward
>
> > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 1:21 AM, Edward Anderson <nil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I just slept monophasically for a week to let my body reset after
> > > several messups on my uberman attempt.
>
> > > This time, I have week to get through the worst of adaptation, and I
> > > want to make sure I can do it without messups. For this attempt, I'm
> > > adding another nap at night, for a total of 7. The Nighttime and
> > > daytime naps are both evenly spaced among themselves.
> > > 9:30a 1:30p 5:30p 9:30p 12:30a 3:30a 6:30a
>
> > > I plan to keep this 7 nap schedule until at least a month in, when I
> > > know I'm well adapted. I'll let you all know how it goes.
>
> > > Edward
>
jerry1962
after the worst of the adaption is over, the polysleeper could ween
himself off those extra naps.
In your case, I was wondering how long your original, first adaption
took? I've noticed a few patterns. The sleep dep seems to peak on
either day 3 or 4, or around day 10; which were you?
I think your (and Steve's) idea of extra naps might be just what the
doctor ordered for successful adaption.
Keighsie Hu
curious about fully adapted people, I've only seen ones on 9-11 or
ones that didn't document it at the time.
Gareth
1. eat really well. this is the most important advice that anyone can
give.
2. try staying up till a couple of hours after dawn and then sleep
during the day for a week or two. i just tried this and it helped sooo
much. its easier to stay awake when the sun shines and the time i
found i was the most tired was at the times when i would normally be
sleeping.
3. have something stimulating to do. (excercise, baking, chatting with
people on the other side of the world etc)
i also tried just staying awake for 36 hours before beginning
adaptation and for me it made it worse.
On Dec 22 2009, 8:40 pm, "Oki O'Connor" <biochem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I started a thread by this name a few months ago.
>
> (http://groups.google.com/group/polyphasic/browse_thread/thread/490a50...
> )
>
> Steve Pavlina touches on this idea here:http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/10/polyphasic-sleep-log-day-3/
>
> I got some great feedback from y'all and did indeed proceed with the plan.
> I'm here to report that it works very well. I apologize that I did not
> report on it sooner. To refresh your memory the idea is based on a few
> simple facts and ideas:
>
> 1. Uberman adaption is faster than everyman.
> 2. More sleep is more comfortable than sleep deprivation (ie adaption).
> 3. More naps = more practice learning how to nap.
> 4. Some people "need" more sleep than others.
>
> I seem to be able to adapt basically fully in about 3 days. Also, those 3
> days are no where near as bad as the first time I adapted to uberman. This
> isn't a perfect experiment, however, because since I've successfully adapted
> before I'm obviously going to be "better" at it than I was the 1st time.
>
> To summarize, here's Oki's guide to Fast and Comfortable (er, less
> uncomfortable) Adaption:
>
> 1. Find out how much sleep your body needshttp://www.wikihow.com/Know-How-Much-Sleep-You-Need
Nicky Hajal
Interesting points, number 2 especially seems like an interesting thing to try and number 3 is, in my opinion, the single most important thing.
I'm not totally sure about 1. What do you mean by well?
When I first tried polyphasic sleep, I was on a typical American diet. I then cleaned up my act to see if that would make it easier. No red meat, no cheese, etc.
Eventually polyphasic sleeping inspired me to be fully vegan. I was for a year.
This got me very interested in nutrition & biology which lead me to a 'primal' diet. Today I eat almost entirely grassfed animal fats & protein.
Personally, aside from huge carb-loading, I haven't found that any of these dietary changes makes a huge difference.
That doesn't mean that it wouldn't for other people, these are merely my experiences. But, I do think that when talking about diet we need to actually specify what 'well' to us means.
What does it mean to you? What are your experiences?
Thanks!
-Nicky
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jerry1962
at or around day 3, before things began to improve.
Others who've blogged about polyphasic sleep, including you and your
sister, talk about a sleep-dep peak at around day 10 (including you
and your sister), before things began to improve.
I was wondering which profile Oki fit.
Jonathan Vogel
*not* adapting... that's the difference there imo.
My understanding is people mess up, even in slight amounts, and it
delays adaptation significantly.
Jonathan
Gareth
while i was adapting to uberman for the first time i slept for an
entrie day. i still repeatably hit REM smack bang on sunrise, day 10.
Oki
arrived ;)
It seems to me that this must be an individuality thing, rather than
being more based on your adaption strategy because I had a similar
pattern with each type of adaption.
When I did adaption the traditional way a couple years ago and worst
day BY FAR was day 3. Holy crap - I was a total zombie. I just
wandered the streets of Berkeley in a daze to stay awake. I had a
hard time keeping my balance just walking, but I had to do it to stay
awake. Horrible. Don't know how I made it through. Then it slowly
got better and I was fully adapted by 2 weeks. Basically the same as
has been described by PD and SP.
With "fast adaption" the second time around the pattern was similar,
just less severe. Day 3 was my worst day, but because of the extra
naps it just wasn't all that bad. I had to battle sleep at night and
in the morning, but was 80% during the day. Fully adapted by 2
weeks. Never any microsleeps that I noticed. It was just a helluva
lot more pleasant 2 weeks (and especially the first 4 days!) than it
was the first time around. I'm sure that having done all this before
helped a lot too though, so I'd really like to hear from more first -
timers trying the extra naps to see whether it helps them and to see
how fast they adapt.
It does imply that "fast adaption" should be adaptable though ;)
Maybe it will help avoid the day 10 crash and maybe it won't. If it
doesn't, people can try the extra naps then to cope with the crash
when they have it.
Oki
> > > > > > Oki- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Keighsie Hu
getting every single one of my naps, getting tired on time, etc, but I
didn't consider that adapted because I had all these weird side
effects at certain times still (particularly, when my energy was low,
my eyes would de-focus, or I'd have lag between when I told my eyes to
move and when they actually did. Also until day 27 I got really bad
dry eyes every now and then and I'd have to wear sunglasses
outdoors.)
I think also that the day that is the worst for each person depends on
how much sleep relative to how much they need they are getting before
they start. I had a huuuuge reserve of energy and though day 4 and 5
stank, I literally fell asleep while doing a task, finished a task in
that sleep, and woke up to find the scissors in my hand and the
pattern finished cutting out on day 9, so I consider that my worst.
That never happened again, and it hadn't happened before, but maybe it
is because I had always gotten plenty of sleep and I had a reserve
(that is what it feels like.)
jerry1962
interesting.
For my own part, I'm not ready to take the plunge just yet. I'm doing
some research to see if I can find some kind of pattern that sets
successful adapters apart from the rest of the fold.
So far, I haven't been able to find such a pattern, and I've looked in
several places, viz. responders vs. non-responders, variant dopamine
pathways in the brain, dreamers vs. forgetters, "left-brained" people
vs. "right-brained" people—you name it, I've looked for it. If I could
find such a pattern, it might help potential adapters adapt easier,
while weeding out people who have no chance of adaption. (I agree with
you that the potential for adaption seems vary among individuals.)
On a related note, so far, your extra-naps approach seems to show the
most promise. However, I do wonder if adaption might be enhanced by
light techniques. One other polyphaser grazed over the subject without
creating much interest, but I think the potential is too great to
ignore, Please allow me to elaborate.
You'll notice that by far the worst periods are during nighttime
hours. This is because darkness causes the brain to release melatonin,
the sleep chemical. I think that if light boxes are used during
adaption, this release of melatonin can be minimized, making adaption
quite a bit easier. What do you think?
In the end, a multi-faceted approach might be the most prudent.
Adaption is always going to suck, but with the proper techniques,
perhaps it doesn't have to suck so much.
jerry1962
For the record, about 10thousand lux is needed for melatonin
suppression; a Google search for 'light boxes" reveals several
choices, including a hat-based model.
I think this is one of those ideas that needs to be given a whole lot
more consideration by the polyphasic community.
On Jan 24, 12:53 pm, Charlotte Ellett <charlottemell...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Definitely, using light makes adaptation much easier. I've often suggested
> that to people, but the idea is usually shot down because it's "bad for you"
> to sleep with a light on. You can argue that it's bad in the long term, but
> short term, it makes it much, much easier to change your circadian rhythm.
> That's the point of adaptation, so I could see someone sleeping with a
> light on just until they feel like they're on the way to adapting, then
> removing it. Almost everyone finds it much easier to wake up feeling alert
> if they have a light on prior to waking. This is why the alarm clocks that
> simulate morning light are more effective for people who wake up before
> dawn.
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Keighsie Hu
my room. My pot lights in the ceiling, my two lamps, my mini lamp,
and any desk lamp I had. It definitely helped. Nowadays I can play
in the dim or dark and not have to worry about it making me tired, but
the light thing was essential to me. Also yoga ball is awesome. Then
you can actually sit down. :P
>
> read more »
Oki
the overhead. With all my lights on i've got over 100W florescent
(which is equivalent to like 400w incandescent)! I kind of want even
more... I want it to be like daylight in there when I'm waking up at
12:30am! I've even thought about putting them on a timer so I can
synchronize them w/ my alarm clock...
> ...
>
> read more »
jerry1962
Thank you all for your extremely valuable input!
Here's where I'm going with this: a less painful adaption, with 1)
extra naps per Oki, and 2) extra light per everybody. I want to take
the extra light to the next level: a full 10thousand lux, for maximum
melatonin suppression.
I see Uberman adaption as similar to childbirth—extremely painful by
itself, but with a few tweaks....not quite so painful...
I'm looking forward to it.
> ...
>
> read more »