Biphasic sleep 45m VS 1h30m (PureDoxyk VS Scott Bird)

[Reis]

First of all, I feel sad that after 3 weeks I had to quit my Everyman
schedule. My type of college degree takes too much time to have a job
thus I have no financial padding to accommodate the electricity bills
that comes with being awake that late.

It's a shame. Even if it felt a bit challenging on my body, it
ultimately felt good to only sleep for 5 hours. Still, my first
successful run was on biphasic sleep and I wish to go back to it for
the time being.

So here is my question:

Puredoxyk mentions in her book "Ubersleep" that Biphasic sleep
consists of a 4.5 hour core and a 45 minute sleep.

Scott Bird however (http://www.straighttothebar.com/2006/10/
biphasic_sleep_30_day_summary.html) and others seem to have
established that the nap should be 1.5 hours.


The second option seems more correct, since 45 minutes go off with the
1.5 hour cycle philosophy of biphasic sleeping. So why 45 minutes?


But considering I'd want to do instead a 6 hour core and a nap, would
45 minutes be acceptable, now that I have one extra cycle to
compensate?


Answers are appreciated.

[Twinge]

My logic tells me sticking to the standard numbers would make the most
sense, though my direct experience is lacking and I have not read her
book (and thus don't know if I'm missing any important context for the
'45 minutes' suggestion).

I'd assume something like this would be the best way to go:
6h core / 20-30m nap OR
4.5h core / 1.5h nap

Also keep in mind that cycles aren't always right at 90 minutes, so a
100 minute nap or something might be ideal - it varies person to
person.

[M D]

Here's the concern I have about Scott Bird is that his model seems to be based on the monophasic sleep cycles, i.e. your sleep cycles are 80 to 110 minutes. I mean using that logic then there's not much of a difference between a monophasic sleeper and a biphasic sleeper. Under everywoman/uberwoman we accept that the body goes through the 5 stages of a cycle faster in a shorter amount of time. For example, Scott Bird recommends adding another sleep cycle of 80 to 110 minutes to your day if you go out drinking one night to recover from the alcohol. In other words, he doesn't seem to accept that he is shortening his sleep cycles by shortening the amount of total time he's sleeping. The less total time you sleep the shorter your sleep cycles, no?

I'm going to take a guess that the rationale behind 45 minutes has more to do with concentrated sleep (i.e. going through the 5 stages of sleep to REM faster than the normal 80 to 110 minutes of typical monophasic sleep pattern). In other words, maybe the assumption is that if you sleep for 4.5 hours core then nap for 80 to 110 minutes, then your core sleep will suffer (i.e. not being tired enough to fall asleep and not waking up refreshed). Unfortunately, this Scott Bird person isn't blogging about his biphasic sleep after the 30 day mark yet while he was blogging about it he had problems falling asleep. He says he's still doing biphasic sleep though. A million factors that could be involved there, though to keep to your question of the difference between a 90 minute nap and 45 minutes, I would say the goal of the 45 minute nap would be to provide a brief rest so as to not negatively effect the 4.5 hour sleep core.

I'm not speaking from experience as a biphasic sleeper though my experience with polyphasic sleeping tells me that adding/subtracting additional minutes to any sleep schedule affects every single nap. The whole quality over quantity. Whether 45 minute nap is the perfect number for everyone is unlikely considering the lack of research behind polyphasic sleeping...but my concern is the idea that monophasic sleep cycle naps are the same length as monophasic.

Scott Bird appears to be a hard-core bodybuilder type (i.e. pushing your body to your limits), so I would say his need for sleep would be greater to recover from all the inflammation that occurs from building/maintaining excessive muscle. To maintain that much muscle you're going to consume far more calories than other polyphasic sleepers, etc. I wish he provided more information about his sleep, but apparently blogging about his sleep isn't very important to him so maybe he's mastered it by using 90 minute naps. That's what it appears though I'd like to hear from others with regard to the sleep cycle on biphasic...is the length identical length to monophasic sleepers? 

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[Daniel Smith]

I believe my cycle has shifted to being closer to 45 minutes. Wikipedia says that is the cycle length for infants, so we know it's possible for humans to have such a short cycle.  (actually, I suspect that I have two cycles, a 20 minute one and a 45 minute one, and my body does a 20 minute one at the beginning of my core, then switching to 45 minute cycles)

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Daniel Smith
http://www.schaumburggoclub.org/

[MD]

Would that indicate your body is wanting to adapt or is already
adapted to uberman if you're experiencing 20 minute cycles during the
beginning of your core sleep?

Here we have Scott Bird's view that biphasic sleep cycle lengths are
similar to monophasic and then this view that your body is going into
20 minute cycles.

[Daniel Smith]

I wish it were that easy, but no, my body will get its core at some point. I've tried switching to uberman now that I can nap, but it's not something you can just do on a whim--I've woken up in some pretty awkward positions. My body will take its core sleep sitting up if need be-- that's how I timed my cycle, waking up every 45 minutes in really uncomfortable sitting positions. The one time it happened I woke up three times in two hours-- after approx. 20 minutes, then 45, then another 45.

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[Reis]

The issue with me having a hard time believing on the 45 minute
interval is that unlike the known 20 minute nap, the 45 minute one
cuts right into the stage of deep sleep that causes the dreadful sleep
inertia if we awake at that moment. So it seems more health hazardous
to try to rewire it into concentrated sleep than the lack of any sleep
the 20 minutes brought.

[Aurelijus]

Hey,
I'm just thinking: if I take 20min naps and my body is used to it, so
the first cycle of core sleep should be also 20min, shouldn't it?
Everything is fine with the naps through the day, but getting up from
core is always hard for me.

[Daniel Smith]

I'm pretty sure the first cycle of my core is 20 minutes.

[Chad K Park]

that's fascinating.  I always wondered if everyman 3+3 would do that or if you would have two sets of sleep cycle times.  It makes sense that your core's first cycle would be about 20 min. long.

-C

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 3:30 AM, Daniel Smith <dan...@lukenine45.net> wrote

I'm pretty sure the first cycle of my core is 20 minutes.

On 12/4/09, Aurelijus <aureliju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey,
> I'm just thinking: if I take 20min naps and my body is used to it, so
> the first cycle of core sleep should be also 20min, shouldn't it?

> Everything is fine se the naps through the day, but getting up from