liver resection

[jill]

If a person has a liver resection done and the liver can regenerate itself, wouldn't the liver become enlarged again?  and another question is does being dehydrated cause the liver to enlarge??  Thanks.

[diane]

The liver is the only organ in the human body that does regenerate. Once doctors reviewed MRI's of PLD livers vs. normal livers. The volume of good normal liver (without cysts) was exactly the same in all of the MRI's.

Following a liver resection, the liver remnant will regenerate. The trick is to get the liver remnant to regenerate normal liver tissue without increasing the number of cysts, non-functioning liver.

I do not know if dehydration can cause a liver to enlarge. I do know that dehydration can cause a decrease in normal individuals without kidney cysts. In individuals with PKD drinking adequate water (3Liters) can shut down vasopressin. Shutting down vasopressin can stop kidney cyst growth.  I know adequate water intake helps the liver in general.

~Diane

On Apr 22, 2013, at 5:34 PM, jill <threes...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

If a person has a liver resection done and the liver can regenerate itself, wouldn't the liver become enlarged again?  and another question is does being dehydrated cause the liver to enlarge??  Thanks.

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[Kelly S.]

Hello.  The liver regenerates itself fairly quickly and can be back to a normal size within about 4-6 weeks.  Healthy cyst-free tissue should regenerate.  As we know cysts develop over time, so it would be best to avoid the triggers that can cause cysts to generate.  For me, those triggers were caffeine and estrogen (birth control and pregnancy).  I had my resection 10 months ago and so far I can not feel any cysts when I poke around on my abdomen. 

If you are a candidate for the resection surgery, I would suggest that you strongly consider it.  I know that it has made a huge improvement in my overall quality of life!

Hope I was helpful!

 

Kelly

[jill]

Hi Kelly, That is so good to hear that you are doing so well after your liver resection.  I do not know if I am a candidate for liver resection yet, I've sent my MRI scans to the Mayo Clinic for evaluation but haven't heard back from them.  I'm hoping I am as this seems to be the most promising approach from things I've read about. So in the mean time I'm just trying to be careful in what I eat and do, some days are better than others.

[diane]

Good luck with your Mayo evaluation and I am glad you continue to be careful in what you eat.  Will  you eventually see Dr. Torres? Please call his office to be sure he has received your scans. I had my liver resection some 16 years ago and I am doing beautifully without any liver cyst re-growth.

The liver is the only organ in the human body that does regenerate. Once doctors reviewed MRI's of PLD livers vs. normal livers. The volume of good normal liver (without cysts) was exactly the same in all of the MRI's.

Following a liver resection, the liver remnant will regenerate. The trick is to get the liver remnant to regenerate normal liver tissue without increasing the number of cysts, non-functioning liver.

I do not know if dehydration can cause a liver to enlarge. I do know that dehydration can cause a decrease in normal individuals without kidney cysts. In individuals with PKD drinking adequate water (3Liters) can shut down vasopressin. Shutting down vasopressin can stop kidney cyst growth.  I know adequate water intake helps the liver in general.

~Diane

[jill]

I have called the Mayo and they did receive my scans, but still have not heard back.  It's been a few months now.  It's hard to leave foods alone that I love but cause cysts to grow. That's the discouraging part, but I keep trying.

On Monday, April 22, 2013 11:34:46 PM UTC-4, jill wrote:

[diane]

Great Jill that you continue to try. This is wonderful. I too find the avoid list difficult but I find if I eat somethings to be avoided I suffer the next day, sometimes the next three or four days. At the time when I eat something wrongly, I think, " Oh I am still alive but the following day or the next or the next I am in pain.

~Diane

[diane]

Need Vitamin D? Try Mushrooms 
Eating mushrooms may be as effective at raising serum vitamin D levels as taking capsuled supplements, researchers reported here. full story

~Diane

[Barb Seidman]

Mushrooms are also quite high in potassium. If you must limit potassium, mushrooms are on the no-no list.
Barb

[diane]

Thanks Barb. I think one has to limit potassium only with diminished kidney functioning NOT liver functioning. Is this true?

~Diane

On Apr 23, 2013, at 9:23 AM, Barb Seidman <bar...@aol.com> wrote:

Mushrooms are also quite high in potassium. If you must limit potassium, mushrooms are on the no-no list.
Barb

diane <pld...@me.com> wrote:

Need Vitamin D? Try Mushrooms 

Eating mushrooms may be as effective at raising serum vitamin D levels as taking capsuled supplements, researchers reported here. full story

~Diane

[Barb Seidman]

Yes. But, many on this list also have PKD.

[diane]

I was wondering, because I do not know, Is it true that with diminished kidney functioning (not yet on dialysis), just with diminished kidney functioning, that some are advised not to eat mushrooms?

~Diane

[Barb Seidman]

It depends how diminished your kidney function is. I was told to limit potassium, phosphates, protein and fluids well before dialysis. It depends on how your body handles these things.
Barb

[diane]

Is your experience that by limiting these things your potassium stays low?

What I have discovered is that with males with PKD if they have diminished kidney functioning and they eat potatoes, especially French Fries, their potassium rises and their kidney functioning declines.

~Diane

[Barb]

It happens with females, too. Diane, just about everyone with kidney disease, whether or not it's PKD, will eventually have to deal with this. 

Barb

Sent from my iPhone. 

[jill]

How big and where is the incision made for a liver resection?

On Monday, April 22, 2013 11:34:46 PM UTC-4, jill wrote:

[Petra O]

 I 

It seems different surgeons have different technics - also depending on how large the liver is, which part they will take out, etc. I had my resection done by prof Neuhaus at the Charité hospital in Berlin, Germany earlier this year. My incision is an up-side-down "T", starting just above my navel. The horisontal scar is ca 30 centimeter (11,8 inches) and the vertical ca 20 centimeters (7,9 inches). I find it very impressive and am rather proud of it! It has healed nicely (it was taped on the surface layer) and doctors think it will be barely noticable ones it turns white. 

I had a hard time finding a good oil for the scar, so I did not use much lotion the first two months, which I regret now. Because as soon as I began applying "Bio-oil" http://www.bio-oil.com/en a few times a day I experienced a lot less "pulling" on the surface. It felt as if a tight, old rope was being pulled across my abdomen. That is gone now, but I still find the deeper scar tissue bothersome, especially when I lay down and turn. The studies from the Bio-oil seems promising also. I have a friend who uses it on his acne scars - with some pretty amazing results. 

Would be interesting to know for how long you who had resections had problems with the scar.

/Petra

2013/4/24 jill <threes...@roadrunner.com>

How big and where is the incision made for a liver resection?

On Monday, April 22, 2013 11:34:46 PM UTC-4, jill wrote:

If a person has a liver resection done and the liver can regenerate itself, wouldn't the liver become enlarged again?  and another question is does being dehydrated cause the liver to enlarge??  Thanks.

--

[jill]

Thank you Petra, sounds like a big incision then.  I'm still waiting to hear back from the Mayo.  I hope you continue on the road to recovery.  Did you have much pain after you woke up from surgery?

On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 2:42:18 PM UTC-4, Petra O wrote:

 I 

It seems different surgeons have different technics - also depending on how large the liver is, which part they will take out, etc. I had my resection done by prof Neuhaus at the Charité hospital in Berlin, Germany earlier this year. My incision is an up-side-down "T", starting just above my navel. The horisontal scar is ca 30 centimeter (11,8 inches) and the vertical ca 20 centimeters (7,9 inches). I find it very impressive and am rather proud of it! It has healed nicely (it was taped on the surface layer) and doctors think it will be barely noticable ones it turns white. 

I had a hard time finding a good oil for the scar, so I did not use much lotion the first two months, which I regret now. Because as soon as I began applying "Bio-oil" http://www.bio-oil.com/en a few times a day I experienced a lot less "pulling" on the surface. It felt as if a tight, old rope was being pulled across my abdomen. That is gone now, but I still find the deeper scar tissue bothersome, especially when I lay down and turn. The studies from the Bio-oil seems promising also. I have a friend who uses it on his acne scars - with some pretty amazing results. 

Would be interesting to know for how long you who had resections had problems with the scar.

/Petra

2013/4/24 jill <threes...@roadrunner.com>

How big and where is the incision made for a liver resection?

On Monday, April 22, 2013 11:34:46 PM UTC-4, jill wrote:

If a person has a liver resection done and the liver can regenerate itself, wouldn't the liver become enlarged again?  and another question is does being dehydrated cause the liver to enlarge??  Thanks.

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[diane]

My incision was more like a sickle, upside down across the top. I asked my surgeon to please make it small enough that I could still wear a bikini. Now some 16 years later the scar is tucked away beneath the top of a bikini. It follows my rib line.

Petra I am glad you have tried bio - oil and it is working for you.

Warmly,
Diane

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[mde...@aol.com]

My potassium has been quite high. Alfacalcidol dosage can affect it. Chips and other takeaways, coffee and many other things can affect it also. The renal dieticians give you a list of what to avoid or at least limit.

 

Mark

[mde...@aol.com]

I was told to go onto a renal diet a little bit before dialysis. Mushrooms are on avoid list. I dont like the little rubber pointless fellas anyway.

 

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Barb Seidman <bar...@aol.com>
To: polycysticliverdisease <polycysticl...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 0:10
Subject: Re: [PLD Polycystic Liver Disease] D2 vs D3

[mde...@aol.com]

You do need to put in a caveat when mentioning how much fluid is drunk. Those who are on a fluid restriction must stick to what they are told. If you are on dialysis it is usual to be on a restriction of about 1 ltr - 1.5.

 

Formula for working out your allowance from my consultant:

 

Limit = .500ml + daily output

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: diane <pld...@me.com>
To: polycysticliverdisease <polycysticl...@googlegroups.com>

[mde...@aol.com]

Dehydration can cause headaches and UTIs. Best avoided. If you can... drink and drink some more......

-----Original Message-----
From: diane <pld...@me.com>
To: polycysticliverdisease <polycysticl...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 5:21
Subject: Re: [PLD Polycystic Liver Disease] liver resection

[diane]

You know I am very curious about dehydration. I feel it is dehydration that has our potassium rise. Once kidney functioning diminishes, our urinary output increases. Along with this increase in urinary output the body eliminates more and more water, concentrating our electrolytes.

When I was so ill during the recovery from my liver resection, my potassium rose to 8.5. This rise was NOT due to intake but rather to dehydration.

~Diane

[diane]

Thanks for that bit of information Mark. I don't think many with diminished kidney functioning will be allowed to take the drug Tolvaptan upon its release, hopefully late Sept 2013.

~Diane

[diane]

I enjoy mushrooms, especially chanterelles. I guess it is a good thing I have excellent kidney functioning, eh?

~Diane

[Barb Seidman]

When kidney function diminishes, urinary output increases? Then please let us know why most people whose function is so low that they must be on dialysis have been instructed to limit fluids so that they don't get edema. This is why you must be weighed before and after dialysis treatments.
Barb

diane <pld...@me.com> wrote:

You know I am very curious about dehydration. I feel it is dehydration that has our potassium rise. Once kidney functioning diminishes, our urinary output increases. Along with this increase in urinary output the body eliminates more and more water, concentrating our electrolytes.

When I was so ill during the recovery from my liver resection, my potassium rose to 8.5. This rise was NOT due to intake but rather to dehydration.

~Diane

[diane]

Thanks for that bit of information Mark. I don't think many with diminished kidney functioning will be allowed to take the drug Tolvaptan upon its release, hopefully late Sept 2013.

~Diane

[diane]

FIRST PHASE

I believe there are two phases to kidney functioning decline. Is this not your experience? The first phase is that of increased urinary output. I was told that as kidney functioning begins to slightly decline our urinary output will increase. I have never experienced this but I am watchful about my urinary output increasing.

SECOND PHASE

The second phase is as kidney functioning declines more and more our urinary output eventually decreases so that a few on dialysis have no urinary output at all.  I am interested in the first phase where urinary output decreases but the kidneys do not seem to function in filtering out toxins. I would think this first phase leads to more and more dehydration.

I really am in the dark here. I have not experienced this. I am only speaking about what I have been told.

http://familypet-vet.com/canine-kidney-disease/

Here is a site about dogs with kidney decline

"In fact, most dogs with renal disease are producing large volumes of urine.  This disparity between the large volume of urine produced and declining kidney function are often a source of confusion for dog owners."

~Diane

[Barb Seidman]

Diane, this is something that can effect each of us a bit differently depending on our general health, our environment, our diet, our medications, etc. As for what we each have to limit or eliminate, it depends on what our nephrologists tell us to do based on our medical tests.
Barb

[diane]

Thanks Barb.

~Diane

[mde...@aol.com]

In my experience output dropped dramatically as function declined but the amount of blood in it increased.

 

As the kidneys help produce urine this is the right way around. If kidneys decline the output goes. Books agree.

 

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: diane <pld...@me.com>
To: polycysticliverdisease <polycysticl...@googlegroups.com>

[mde...@aol.com]

I agree.

 

I seem to only pass blood at the mo.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Barb Seidman <bar...@aol.com>

To: polycysticliverdisease <polycysticl...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 22:28
Subject: Re: [PLD Polycystic Liver Disease] dehydration

[mde...@aol.com]

For me infections were the only thing that dramatically increased output. Commonly on hospitalisation I had saline drips as a result of dehydration.

 

Surely the group should be interested in all stages of the disease?

 

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Barb Seidman <bar...@aol.com>
To: polycysticliverdisease <polycysticl...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 1:18
Subject: Re: [PLD Polycystic Liver Disease] dehydration

[diane]

Tolvaptan

FDA issued a warning, especially for any with liver disease.

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm350062.htm

~Diane

[Barb Seidman]

A friend of mine was taking Tolvaptan and was taken off it because it raised her creatinine level.
Barb

[diane]

Hmm. Was your friend drinking enough water? The FDA warning talks about 30 days treatment only.

Researchers have written:

"Given that the beneficial effect of tolvaptan is thought to operate through the inhibition of V2-receptor activation and the suppression of cy- clic AMP (cAMP), it seems likely that a similarly beneficial effect on the course of ADPKD could be achieved with a high fluid intake alone, be- cause this suppresses vasopressin release and cAMP formation.2"

~Diane

[mde...@aol.com]

I guess it will be a question of degree of decline.

 

My brother has PKD and PLD and is on it.

 

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Barb Seidman <bar...@aol.com>

[diane]

Ask your brother to consider getting  liver function tests done as well while taking tolvaptan.

~Diane