Can the NES be on the call next week?

[Russell Dale]

October 8, 2010

Dear Bill,

    I hope that you will invite Renee Asteria to join call on Tuesday.  There are a number of questions I am sure people will want to ask her about the elections.  But, she should be invited officially to the call (if she has not been already) as soon as possible so that she has time to plan to make sure she can be there.

    I am sure that others have their own questions, but I would definitely like to ask her about the various mailings that were made (what, when).  Also, we should find out how many NY ballots were returned to Berkeley because of the printing-house error.  How did this happen?  How was this handled?  Were ballots sent to Berkeley counted?
 
    I am sure others have other questions.  Perhaps you can let Renee know about any such questions people will have for public discussion at the meeting so that she will be prepared.

    Thank you.

Yours,
Russell

[Alex]

Hello Bill,

 

I too would like to know the answers to those questions. In particular, can someone find out exactly why the wrong zip code was used for the NY mailings? Who told the printer to put that particular zip code on the envelope?  I would appreciate it if someone would ask these questions as I am not sure I will be able to be on the call myself. I am afraid there is a conflict with a National Finance Committee meeting and if there is that one will have to take precedence for me. Still I would like to know the answer to that question.

 

Alex Steinberg

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[Russell Dale]

Yes, I have to agree with Alex, that is really a question in need of some sort of answer.  Things like that don't just happen by themselves.  Yours, Russell

On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Alex Steinberg <philos...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Bill,

 

I too would like to know the answers to those questions. In particular, can someone find out exactly why the wrong zip code was used for the NY mailings? Who told the printer to put that particular zip code on the envelope?  I would appreciate it if someone would ask these questions as I am not sure I will be able to be on the call myself. I am afraid there is a conflict with a National Finance Committee meeting and if there is that one will have to take precedence for me. Still I would like to know the answer to that question.

Alex Steinberg

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[Shawn Casey O'Brien]

Thanks Alex.  Good (and disturbing) questions.  I will try to be on the call.

Shawn

[Bill Crosier]

I reminded Renee about the Elections Committee conference call for Tuesday and she said she'll be able to join us on the call, but only for an hour. She also said she'd write up a report for us in advance of the meeting to respond to the questions some of us have had.

I do request that we try to keep questions and comments relevant to election progress and problems, about what we as committee members can do to help, and what needs to be done -- not on who needs to be blamed for what. I realize there have been problems (as there always are) at some stations, but believe we need to focus on the future-- on what we can and should do to help to make things better, both for this election and future ones. For example: for those stations that did not achieve quorum, what can those of us do at those stations to get more members to return ballots? Talk with station management about getting more carts aired? Call in to shows to remind everyone why it's important to vote and how to get replacement ballots if they need them? Send out e-mail reminders to friends and lists we're on?

Besides the NES report and questions for her, I'd like to get a short status report from those of you from each station on how the election is progressing and what problems you have there.

If you have other items for the agenda, please send them to me so I can add them by tomorrow, if possible.

Also, Ken has indicated he might not be able to join us on Tuesday, so we may need someone else to be secretary for this meeting.

Bill

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Bill Crosier
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[Carolyn Birden]

Bill, et al, here is one problem from WBAI:  we need some hard information, and it doesn't seem we are getting it. The following is from LSB member R.Paul Martin and posted to http://www.listenerforums.net

Posted By: R. Paul Martin <Send E-Mail> (pool-98-116-24-187.nycmny.east.verizon.net)
Date: Sunday, 10 October 2010, at 9:17 p.m.

In Response To: Is the Staff Bothering to Vote? (Sidney)

The Election Supervisors didn't bother to proof read the return envelopes' ZIP
    codes. So a lot of us who got our ballots early on got return envelopes with the wrong ZIP code on them. In the past the Staff elections have always gone over quorum, significantly over quorum.

    I've asked the National and Local election Supervisors some questions about this stuff. They're still assuring me that all of the ballot return envelopes with the wrong ZIP codes on them have been forwarded to the proper P.O. Box. But when I asked how many Staff ballots they'd received as of October 1st, the National Election Supervisor said, "Approximately 200 staff ballots have been cast."

    How the hell can 200 Staff ballots not be a quorum? I've asked for clarification of that. I've asked if maybe she meant to say that 200 Staff ballots had been sent out, but I haven't gotten a reply yet. It is fishy to me that I have not gotten an answer to the question of how many Staff ballots were collected when they went to the Post Office on October 1st.

    The other possibility is that the Election Supervisors have allowed faction operatives to pad the Staff list so much that the usual number of ballots cast couldn't make up 25% of that total.

    I don't think that many Staff are apathetic wrt this election.

    I wonder how the ZIP code snafu has affected the listener elections?

A second problem or issue at WBAI:  the staff election did not meet quorum, I suspect,  because many staff members did not give their contact information to management, as requested.  Why not?  Was it a boycott, or are there many illegally-classified staff members who decided not to give themselves away by trying to register as real staff?  How are staff members being vetted once they give their contact information to management?  There have been so many charges of padded staff lists ast WBAI that we need much more and better transparency about the process by which a person is given a staff ballot. We have department heads at WBAI: not all stations do.  What is there responsibility for vetting staff in their departments?   Last election the staff lists were posted on the station wall for all to see.  This year I have no idea of who is considered "staff" and who did not get their ballots, much less why.  Can we get some information here?  Perhaps the IGM should be asked for a report on the issue, as we don't get much information from the election supervisor.

For the record, the previous GM at WBAI (and all GMs at all stations) were told to create a staff list and vet it periodically: he did not, and the present IGM at WBAI had the unpleasant task of doing in a hurry what should have been done over a period of a year or more.  It is going to take a while to build a transparent, reliable system, but it should have been begun, at least.  What if any is the connection between bad zip codes, staff lists, and failure to meet quorum?

Carolyn

[Bill Crosier]

Hi, Carolyn ( my point below applies at other stations, too),

Did you LES post the staff list, as all the LESs were supposed to do, before the ballots were sent out?  I know our LES posted the list at the station (in early July, I believe) so that corrections could be made if necessary and everyone could see who was going to get ballots in case anyone wanted to challenge someone on the list (or add others).

If the list was not posted publicly at the station, then I suggest you ask your LES why, and how the list was verified.

Also, I agree with you that the 200 figure sounds way too high, unless it refers to the staff ballot total for all stations.  I suggest you ask your LES about this, too.

Please let us know before the meeting tomorrow what you're able to learn about this.

Bill

[Carolyn Birden]

Bill, I will try to ask the LES, but the questions were posed by staff member RPaul Martin, and staff members who did not get ballots should be asking these questions as well.

I'll get back to you, but have no expectation that I will have answers by then.

carolyn

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[Shawn Casey O'Brien]

Thanks, Carolyn & R. Paul.  As a Staff Rep, I have a great concern over all this.  My question for Bill and his "ah, shucks" attitude is, when do we hold these LES's and their "whatever" NES boss accountable for the mess we find our selves in?

Or do we all hold hands, turn a blind eye while singing Kumbya and learn nothing.

Shawn

[Bill Crosier]

At 11:47 AM -0700 10/11/10, Shawn Casey O'Brien wrote:

Thanks, Carolyn & R. Paul.  As a Staff Rep, I have a great concern over all this.  My question for Bill and his "ah, shucks" attitude is, when do we hold these LES's and their "whatever" NES boss accountable for the mess we find our selves in?

Or do we all hold hands, turn a blind eye while singing Kumbya and learn nothing.

I get frustrated, too, Shawn, when things don't go right.  But the big question is what do we do about it?

Perhaps some of us have had bosses (or parents) who felt that the way to motivate people was to yell and scream at them, insult and berate them, and tell them how inadequate they are.  I believe most of us know that's very counterproductive and tends to just make people stop communicating, avoid contact with their boss or parents, and do the minimum necessary to get by so they can extricate themselves from the situation as soon as they can.

But being abused or seeing other people being abused or bullied does not mean it's OK to do it to others.  And frankly, although I did ask Renee to join the call tomorrow, I'm wondering if that's such a good idea, if people are going to jump all over her and insult her and expect her to just say thank you, please hit me again.

The alternative is not to just ignore problems and sing Kumbaya.

I have a problem with holding people "accountable" if that means:

* finding someone to blame whenever something goes wrong, and then calling them names, questioning their character, saying how inadequate they are, and otherwise insulting them

* concentrating on what went wrong rather than understanding why it happened and what could be done differently, so such problems can be avoided in the future

* ignoring what steps he/she did to prevent or correct problems, and only notice what goes wrong rather than the many good things someone does

* assuming that firing anyone who doesn't do exactly what we want them to do (or harassing them until they quit) will fix all problems and it will be easy to find that perfect person to replace him/her

* never offering to help

Too often, that's what it seems like we are doing.  I guess those of us on the PNB and our committees are perfect, have an infinite amount of time and abilities to deal with multiple problems and issues at the same time, and can do anything.  Come to think of it, if that's the case, why aren't we all doing the work?

I got an update from Renee about the zip code problem with the New York envelopes -- see the separate note I just sent about that.  Please send us whatever followup questions you have.

Bill

[Melinda Iley-Dohn]

Shawn,   No, we do not ignite the torches. We need to follow the By-Laws. There is a reason that the elections were set up the way that they were with Supervisors who work independantly from staff and volunteers.   Considering the historic infighting and possiblity of conflicts of interest, it was felt that it was a better idea to have supervisory duties fulfilled by people who did not have a vested interest in the end results of the elections.   This is why they did not allow the PNB and it's members or the individuals who are members of the LSB influence the elections and how they are run. We are compelled to honor this.   Regardless of what you think of any of our committee members, we are duty bound to obey these guidelines.   Melinda Iley-Dohn Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania 1759               --- On Mon, 10/11/10, Shawn Casey O'Brien <iris...@verizon.net> wrote:

[Shawn Casey O'Brien]

The NES was compromised from the start by a KPFA member of the PNB.  So much for rules.  If we'd of followed the rules and not made them up as we went along, we would not be in the mess we are in right now.

Shawn

[Shawn Casey O'Brien]

Bill, 

Since you tried (implicitly) to besmirch my parents, I want you to know, I was was raised by very loving and conscientious parents, who although they occasionally yelled, did so for the most part, because they saw injustice and wanted to do something about it. Which I guess in your eyes, is what makes me such a bad guy.

So be it.

The fact is, it was you who did not have the internal fortitude to question authority and instead, placated and enabled the 'insiders', while belittling all who had very legitimate concerns about fair elections.

Which, it appears more and more, we do not have here.

Spin it anyway you want, the fact remains, the NES violated the proper election procedure when she ran only 1/6 of the promotional carts.  (insider's game) She violated common sense and fairness, if not our election policy, when she extended the nominating deadline, but not the membership deadline (insider's game) and she violated our By-Laws when she failed to send out the ballots and candidate guides together. (insider's game)   And yet, your worry seems to be that we will be picking on her when we point out that most station's haven't meant quorum -- because of a failure to air carts reminding people to mail in their votes or failing to have anyone proof read her work -- a standard practice when it comes to election directions, copy or address'.  

Had she done this simple thing, the zip codes would have been right.

So don't insult me further, trying to make out that I'm only in this to pick on our hapless and disrespectful NES  (I can hear her now: "Whatever").  I and others warned you from the start that the NES did not have the skill set or the temperament to do this job and now as it all blows up in your face, you make out like we are wrong for pointing out that, what we warned you about -- is coming to pass.

So, whether you want to admit it or not, she didn't know what they were doing  -- or did, and thus was not an honest broker -- and it now appears that the insider's at KPFA carried the day.  Fancy that!  Everything according to the insider's plan, huh, Bill?

Shawn

[Bill Crosier]

Shawn, I'm sorry if it appeared that I in any way besmirched your parents in my e-mail (below). I did not mean to do that.

I'm also sorry if it seemed I was belittling others' concerns about the elections. I did not intend to do that, either. As you know, our Bylaws give the PNB little authority over elections (and committees even less), and provide that the NES and LESs be pretty autonomous in order to minimize political influences. That makes it even more important that we try to work with, rather than against, all of our election supervisors.

I just want us to concentrate on what we can do to make things better rather than on finding people to blame and going after them in a very un-Pacifican way. I hope we can have a productive meeting tonight identifying what needs to be done and steps we can take.

Bill

[Shawn Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, me too, Bill.

Thanks,

S.O'B.