> --
>
Aileen Gatten
On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Scheid, Bernhard wrote:
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||I am presently dealing with the Nihon Ryōiki at class and one story (vol.
||1/28) reports that the monk Dōshō on his trip to China was requested by
||500 "tigers" 虎 from Silla to lecture on the Lotus Sutra - which he does
||only to find a Japanese among the crowd: The saint En no Gyōja (E no
||ubasoku). According to the Ryoiki, the event takes place after the year
||701 which is slightly anachronistic since Dōshō is known to have lived
||from 629-700. Nevertheless the fact that a monk preaches to wild beasts is
||somewhat untypical for the quite "realistic" style of the Ryōiki. My
||question is therefore whether "tigers" could be something like a nickname,
||for instance for people from (former) Silla.
Yes. David Waterhouse, “Where did Toragaku come from?” Musica Asiatica 6 (1991) 73–94, notes that OJ tora, in the context of gagaku, was probably a variant of tanra, a name for the island now called Chejudo (Cecwu.to), viz. t‘amna (tham.la). If so, then tora虎 ‘tiger’ could be ateji.
||I found a somewhat similar account in the Nihon Shoki where a certain
||Tokushi, a monk from Goguryeo is said to have learned agricultural
||techniques and the art of accupuncture from a "tiger" (this event is
||situated in Kōgyoku 4 [645]).
A person from Chejudo works here too.
||Being anything but an expert of ancient Korean history I only know of the
||myth that the semi-god Hwanung who chose among a tiger(woman) and a
||bear(woman), eventually deciding for the bear. The child of this couple
||was Dangun, the mythical ancestor of all Koreans. Obviously the legend was
||recorded much later than the Ryoiki (early 9th c.) but if we assume an
||ancient origin, it may provide a certain clue to the question, who
||"tigers" in ancient Korea could be, namely a neighboring, but propably
||"primitive" population (or perhaps the people from Silla from a
||Koguryeo/Baekje perspective?)
But the ateji explanation won’t work for Korean, in which ‘tiger’ is pŏm (pēm).
there is a story about 500 tigers in the Sumaagadhaavadaana
(T02, no.0128b, p.0840c25), the number of "500" sounds very Indian
to me.
Niels
>I am presently dealing with the Nihon Ryōiki at class and one story (vol. 1/28) reports that the monk Dōshō on his trip to China was requested by 500 "tigers" 虎 from Silla to lecture on the Lotus Sutra - which he does only to find a Japanese among the crowd: The saint En no Gyōja (E no ubasoku). According to the Ryoiki, the event takes place after the year 701 which is slightly anachronistic since Dōshō is known to have lived from 629-700. Nevertheless the fact that a monk preaches to wild beasts is somewhat untypical for the quite "realistic" style of the Ryōiki. My question is therefore whether "tigers" could be something like a nickname, for instance for people from (former) Silla.
>
>I found a somewhat similar account in the Nihon Shoki where a certain Tokushi, a monk from Goguryeo is said to have learned agricultural techniques and the art of accupuncture from a "tiger" (this event is situated in Kōgyoku 4 [645]).
>
>Being anything but an expert of ancient Korean history I only know of the myth that the semi-god Hwanung who chose among a tiger(woman) and a bear(woman), eventually deciding for the bear. The child of this couple was Dangun, the mythical ancestor of all Koreans. Obviously the legend was recorded much later than the Ryoiki (early 9th c.) but if we assume an ancient origin, it may provide a certain clue to the question, who "tigers" in ancient Korea could be, namely a neighboring, but propably "primitive" population (or perhaps the people from Silla from a Koguryeo/Baekje perspective?)
>
>Any further hints to this question?
>
>Bernhard
>
--
Michael Pye
Professor of the Study of Religions
University of Marburg, Germany (retired)
Research Associate (International Buddhist Studies), Shin Buddhist
Comprehensive Research Institute, Otani University, Kyoto, Japan
Zitat von guel...@waseda.jp:
As far as I can see the suggestions are well grouped into
1) An Indian/Buddhist direction, 500 tigers being a topos in Jataka-like stories as Niels and Michael indicated (I found a further hint here). In this case, tigers are just tigers, but may feel a desire for Buddhist salvation. It is of course plausible that the Ryoiki drew from Indian inspirations, but actually the Jataka influence seems not as strong as I would have had expected. As I said, there seems to be much more “realism” in the Ryoiki’s setsuwa (building on Chinese precedents) than in the Jatakas.
2) A peculiar Korean tradition, as evidenced in Jos Vos’ post and the interesting mention of “tora-gaku” etc. by James Unger. Since almost every religious figure in the Ryoiki has some connection to Korea, knowledge of Korean lore by the author can be taken for granted, but still the evidence that “tiger” means something else than simply the animal is shaky.
A combination of both suggestions is of course also plausible.
Finally there is of course the possibility of an error, as pointed out by George Klonos.
Thank you all very much
Bernhard
Von: pm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pm...@googlegroups.com] Im Auftrag von Jos Vos
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Dezember 2010 14:24
An: pm...@googlegroups.com
Betreff: RE: [PMJS] Korean tigers
Dear all,
Perhaps some of you are familiar with the songs of the "beggar minstrels" in the Manyōshū (MYS XVI 3907-8 / 3885-86), one of which opens with these words (in Edwin Cranston's translation):
Sweet sir, / Dear lord my brother, / Here, here do you dwell; / And when you travel somewhere, why, / It's off to Kara / to catch the gods called tigers: / Taking them alive, / Eight of them, you bring back...
(Edwin A. Cranston, A Waka Anthology, Vol. I: The Gem-Glistening Cup, p. 759)
According to prof. Cranston, the 'Kara' mentioned here is definitely Korea. The same goes for the Japanese text I consulted (NKBZ edition, Manyōshū Vol. IV).
But is not乕 simply a variant form of 虎 ?
--
--
Michael Pye
Professor of the Study of Religions
University of Marburg, Germany (retired)
Research Associate (International Buddhist Studies), Shin Buddhist
Comprehensive Research Institute, Otani University, Kyoto, Japan
Zitat von peiying Lin <bib...@gmail.com>:
> From a Chinese perspective, in Tang literature, the eminent vinaya monks
> were often called 律虎, likewise there are also mentions of 義虎 for the monks
> good at exegetical studies. Just a few examples: T46, no. 1937, p.924c03;
> T50, no. 2060, p0610a14. Also a recent article: Huaiyu Chen 陳懷宇, "From the
> Lion to the Tiger" “由獅而虎”, 《張廣達教授八十大壽慶壽文集》, Taipei: Xinwenfeng, 2010。
>
> With warm regards,
> Pei-Ying Lin
> (SOAS)
>
>
> On 1 December 2010 22:45, James M. Unger <unge...@osu.edu> wrote:
>
>> But is not乕 simply a variant form of 虎 ?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* pm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pm...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *Georgios Klonos
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 01, 2010 9:12 AM
>> *To:* pm...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* [PMJS] Korean tigers
>>
>>
>>
>> You might also want to take a look at Gorai Shigeru's annotated volume of
>> the "Cloak of Leaves" (*Konohagoromo*), Chapter 8, where the author,
>> Gyochi (a 19th-century Shugendo scholar-monk) defends En no Gyoja (i.e. that
>> he did not transform himself into a tiger) and writes that the authors of
>> works such as the *Nihon ryoiki* and the *Genko shakusho *confused the
>> character 虎 with that of 乕.
>>
>> Gorai Shigeru. *Konohagoromo – Toun Rokuji*. Tokyo: Heibonsha, 1995.
>>
>> George Klonos
>> Ph.D. Candidate, Stanford University
>>
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I haven't looked into gagaku deeply enough to answer these kinds of question, but there is a piece called "Komainu" that has been revived. It is mentioned in the 教訓抄 of Koma no Chikazane as being performed during Sumo matches. I had the opportunity to see the Tenri University Gagaku Society perform it last year; it is seems more in line with 獅子舞 and Chinese lion dancing. --- On Wed, 12/1/10, Noel Pinnington <no...@email.arizona.edu> wrote: |
|
|
>>>> <pmjs%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<pmjs%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
--
Michael Pye
Professor of the Study of Religions
University of Marburg, Germany (retired)
Research Associate (International Buddhistwo Studies), Shin Buddhist
>>>> <pmjs%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<pmjs%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
If anyone of you missed the deadline of the EAJS call for papers
(which was yesterday), then you will be pleased to hear we have kept
the submissions portal open for now, because there were very many last
minute submissions and some people may have had trouble with online
submission. Please find the submissions webpage at
https://www.frens.info/site/tmpl/reg9_abs_638.php
Looking forward to seeing you in Tallinn,
Rein Raud