Unified guide for interested beginners

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JustinK

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Jul 20, 2011, 10:29:24 AM7/20/11
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Hello,

After browsing through the Plover discussion group here for quite a
while, I came upon a post by another newcomer, Sheldon Rampton, who
summed up my feelings rather well:

"As a newbie just learning about this
topic, I'm already finding myself bewildered not just by the amount to
learn but by the evident lack of consensus about WHAT I should be
learning. Should I learn Phoenix? Tony Wright seems to recommend it,
but Mirabai seems to strongly disagree. I'm sure there are valid
arguments for either position, but I can't tell from the above
discussion which to prefer. From the discussion above, I get a general
sense that there several theories including StenEd, StenoMaster,
Magnum, Philly and NYCI, some of which are related to one another. But
how are they related, and where should I start? "

As someone who became immediately fascinated by Steno and Plover by
stumbling upon Mirabai Knights blog, I have found it very difficult to
take the next step and actually get going, partially because I really
don't want to have to learn and then unlearn a system of it turns out
to not be what I was looking for. That being said, my sidewinder is
in the mail as I type this the slow way. . .

As an example, when I began to learn shorthand (the manual one with
pen and paper, not this fancy stuff. . .) there was a truly ridiculous
amount of conflicting opinions on which style to use, which version of
that style, whether stenography paper was required or a crutch you
should absolutely avoid. I made a huge mistake and spent a long time
trying to learn Pittman shorthand, before realizing it was NOT what I
had been looking for despite being a great system. Switching to Gregg
shorthand, I made the even more grievous mistake of learning Series 90
first, which crippled my speed. Finally, after MUCH wasted time and
effort, I found my perfect fit with Gregg Anniversary.

I tell this to illustrate the problem that I'm now having trying to
take the first steps in stenography, and Plover in particular.

There is a large amount of great information on this site, blog, and
discussion group, but it is spread throughout, and often contradicts
itself based on personal opinions. I understand there is no correct
answer to many of these questions, but in my opinion, it would be a
wonderful resource it there was a single handy list that describes:

- Exactly what hardware you need/can use with Plover. Include
discussion on n-key rollever, why it's needed, and the many options
there are.

- Software requirements and walkthroughs to installation, with step
by step instructions for those who are not a linux junky like I am.
An explanation that you can install linux on the side next to Windows
and Mac without affecting your current system.

- (Most importantly) The pros/cons of each system and theory:
How they differ.
How they are similar.
What is similar between all.
What is the average speed reached.
How steep is the learning curve.
How large is the memory load.
Available books/sites/resources for those systems.
Which ones work 'out of the box' with Plover, which would require
extensive user modification.
Which ones work well together.
Which ones conflict.
A single recommendation for a complete beginner, if they feel
overwhelmed trying to weigh the options.
Etc.

- And you already have the most difficult (I think?) part done: some
Steno 101 classes!

I realize this is a lot to ask/suggest, but I would not be surprised
if there are currently people who find this site, become overwhelmed,
and quit before ever actually starting. A simple primer page could go
a long way towards lifting people over that first hurdle.

Thank you,
Justin

Mirabai Knight

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Jul 20, 2011, 10:51:42 AM7/20/11
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Justin, this is an excellent idea. I know the bar to entry for Plover
is higher than it should be at the moment, but I think you're right
that part of the problem is just the spread-out nature of information
about steno theories, hardware, and Linux basics. I'm going to try to
put together a newbie quickstart page, following these
recommendations. Any other inclusions from the rest of the group? What
parts of the early learning curve have been the most frustrating or
tedious? What's the worst bottleneck a potential Plover user
encounters?

> -   (Most importantly) The pros/cons of each system and theory:
> How they differ.
> How they are similar.
> What is similar between all.
> What is the average speed reached.
> How steep is the learning curve.
> How large is the memory load.
> Available books/sites/resources for those systems.
> Which ones work 'out of the box' with Plover, which would require
> extensive user modification.
> Which ones work well together.
> Which ones conflict.
> A single recommendation for a complete beginner, if they feel
> overwhelmed trying to weigh the options.
> Etc.

flamenco108

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Jul 20, 2011, 12:14:51 PM7/20/11
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On 20 Lip, 16:29, JustinK <justin.ko...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Should I learn Phoenix?

You don't even imagine, how happy are you, that you have such choice.
We don't have any stenosystem in Polish. We have to create it. So, I
probably must wait at least two years, until I'll create it, to learn
it.

Sorry for the OT.

Krzysztof
http://www.stenografia.pl

Mirabai Knight

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Jul 20, 2011, 12:22:25 PM7/20/11
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Could a Polish system start from the Czech system and go from there?

http://stenograph.com/pages.aspx?docid=249&id=

Pardon my ignorance; I don't know any Slavic languages. But I know the
two are at least somewhat related, so maybe it would be jumping-off
point, at least.

--
Mirabai Knight, CCP, RPR, CBC
StenoKnight CART Services
917 576 4989
m...@stenoknight.com
http://stenoknight.com

flamenco108

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Jul 20, 2011, 3:42:10 PM7/20/11
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On 20 Lip, 18:22, Mirabai Knight <askelad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Could a Polish system start from the Czech system and go from there?

Well, I doubt it. Unfortunately, Polish phonology is much more
complicated. But it is good base to begin with project of Polish
keymap. Is there any manual to Czech stenography?

> http://stenograph.com/pages.aspx?docid=249&id=

I've surfed around this subject since year, but still did not find it.
I've got this keymap from achival materials (1970's).

> Pardon my ignorance; I don't know any Slavic languages. But I know the
> two are at least somewhat related, so maybe it would be jumping-off
> point, at least.
>

Our initial calculations indicate, that we need at least 400
combinations for initial consonant groups. So, I suppose, we need 10,
not just 8 buttons on initial side. Instead, it seems much easier to
plan the end of the syllables, so we hope, that the last 4 buttons we
could use for next set of vowels.
Polish phonology has 48 sounds, including only 8 vowels. The
consonants combine into complex consonantal group, which just make the
Polish language so difficult to learn for foreigners.


Krzysztof
--
>>Jak dziecko, dzikie i nieokiełznane,
jedz mięso i bądź szalony.<< (Saraha)
flame...@gmail.com
* http://www.stenografia.pl *

Mirabai Knight

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Jul 20, 2011, 3:51:31 PM7/20/11
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One thing to consider is that the same key pattern can be used for
more than one consonant cluster. For instance, in my steno theory, KP-
is used for words that begin with X-, Ex-, and the com- prefix. So
KPAM is used for "exam", KPOUPBD is used for "compound", and KPRAEU is
used for "X-Ray". Because the other two options (Xam or Compam; Xound
or Exound; Exrai or compray) aren't valid words, the key system can be
flexible. As I said, I know nothing about Polish, but if you find that
there are some beginning consonants that only go with certain
vowel/ending consonant combinations, and others that only go with
other vowel/ending consonant combinations, you might be able to use
the same key combinations for more than one beginning consonant sound.

flamenco108

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Jul 20, 2011, 3:57:14 PM7/20/11
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On 20 Lip, 21:42, flamenco108 <flamenco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >http://stenograph.com/pages.aspx?docid=249&id=
> I've surfed around this subject since year, but still did not find it.
> I've got this keymap from achival materials (1970's).

I just checked in my materials: the keymap I found was projected by
J.Vratny in 1960's and it was also 10/10 buttons:

SPCVL__SPCVI
T+KRN__T.KNE
IE__AO

So, it's interesting, that on Czech webpages I did not find anything
about this Stenograph's keyboard.

Sorry again for offtopic.

--
Krzysztof Smirnow.
flame...@stenografia.pl
http://www.stenografia.pl
--| Nondum lingua suum, dextra peregit opus |--

flamenco108

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Jul 26, 2011, 12:39:37 PM7/26/11
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I don't know if you're aware of it...

On 20 Lip, 16:51, Mirabai Knight <askelad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Justin, this is an excellent idea. I know the bar to entry for Plover
> is higher than it should be at the moment, but I think you're right
> that part of the problem is just the spread-out nature of information
> about steno theories, hardware, and Linux basics. I'm going to try to
> put together a newbie quickstart page, following these
> recommendations.

http://www.archive.org/details/stenotypy00indi

It's old manual, but I suppose, basics are still the same.

Justin Konen

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Jul 26, 2011, 12:42:55 PM7/26/11
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Awesome!  Thank you Krzysztof!

Mirabai, would this mesh well with Plover?  I'm far too new to know if something is applicable or not.

Justin

Smirnow, Krzysztof

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Jul 27, 2011, 4:19:04 AM7/27/11
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Another (perhaps the same, a year newer) example:
http://www.archive.org/details/stenotypymachin00bryagoog

Mirabai, would this mesh well with Plover?  I'm far too new to know if something is applicable or not.

http://www.archive.org/details/stenotypy00indi

It's old manual, but I suppose, basics are still the same.

Mirabai Knight

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Jul 27, 2011, 2:32:49 PM7/27/11
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Oh, wow. This is actually a fantastic resource. The one criticism I'd
give is that since it was written before realtime, it relies too
heavily on syllabic briefs, which can cause word boundary errors.
Also, the steno machine they use doesn't appear to have a number bar,
so they use the asterisk for numbers, which is strange. The great
thing, though, is how many exercises it has. I think I'm going to have
to post to the Plover blog about this. The hardest thing for me in
writing Steno 101 has been coming up with exercises, and since this is
in the public domain, I don't feel too bad about flagrantly stealing
theirs -- at least to start with. Thank you so much for finding this!
It's a great base to start off with, though it does need to be adapted
somewhat to make it properly computer-compatible. Still, it's
remarkably similar to the theory I use, which is very cool. People
using Plover who have already gotten past the Steno 101 lessons
available and who are impatient with my slow rate of progress will
probably get a lot out of it, as long as they're not afraid to change
whatever doesn't work for them. Thank you so much for finding it!

--

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