Hey PloneChix - Did you know we have a blog?

[eleddy]

It's true! Blogging is a GREAT way to increase visibility of women in
the community. Check it out at http://plonechix.blogspot.com/ (and
will soon be registered with Planet Plone). If you don't contribute
regularly to your own blog (or even if you do) I encourage every one
to post something- a how to, sweet tip or trick, or a community
observation, whatever you like.

Holla at me if you want to contribute!

~Liz (eleddy)

[JoAnna Springsteen]

Liz-

Ok so how does this work? Can I just hook up my existing blog feed
into PloneChix blog and have it appear? Or do I send you a post? Or do
you create individuals accounts on the plonechix blog and let us at
it?

JoAnna

[Elizabeth Leddy]

if you can get the former to happen that would be sweet but I don't know how. I was just going to create accounts. I think I sent you an invite to modify it already - did you get that?

Liz

[JoAnna Springsteen]

Yeah I think so. I just don't remember. Had so much stuff going on the
past month I don't know which end is up.

It'd be cool to do just a plonechix feed and have people submit
already existing blogs and have plonechix blog just be a landing spot
for all of those.

Either is great and is progress though. We need a pretty theme.
something to match those tshirts we're supposed to be giving input on
*cough*.

j.

[Elizabeth Leddy]

On Dec 3, 2009, at 12:26 PM, JoAnna Springsteen wrote:

> Yeah I think so. I just don't remember. Had so much stuff going on the
> past month I don't know which end is up.

kettle => black

>
> It'd be cool to do just a plonechix feed and have people submit
> already existing blogs and have plonechix blog just be a landing spot
> for all of those.

yeah - I was just emulating devchix, which I've become a mega fan of. the bonus of not having a multi feed is that personal content won't get mixed in and articles wont' be duped on planet plone. I think we should nudge more nervous people to post here more than anything since they are less likely to have a blog about plone. this will require a high touch, but I think it will pay off. For example, one follower on twitter said she wanted to join plone chix but she didn't know if she could cause she wasn't a real dev - just a plone css person (but for 3 years!). These are the types of people that I think we can start pulling out of the shell with some gentle nudging like "hey, can you write a special guest post on plonechix website?". hopefully it will be syndicated to planet plone soon too as well (I opened a ticket).

that was my initial thought based on what devchix does and they have had really good success. I've been inspired by the goal of visibility - getting the women in the community to be loud and proud, which I admit is something I was shy to do for a long time, despite having knowledge to be shared. I think we could even get a set of generic topics to blog about and ask people to write opinion pieces or quick tips, for example.

thoughts?

>
> Either is great and is progress though. We need a pretty theme.
> something to match those tshirts we're supposed to be giving input on
> *cough*.

yeah - holidays are brutal. I'm moving now and throwing my bf a baby shower this weekend so after this weekend I should have some more open time. in theory anyways. *sigh*

I do like the minimal theme for now - what it really needs is a logo. the only thing I would object to is a pink website. eugh. Of course, look and feel aside we need content. without that its DOA.

[Trish Ang]

hi, all. nice to meet everyone, kind of!

and logo, eh? i mightcould work on that, or a theme. i've got some free (read: furloughed!) time coming up later December. attaching a draft of potential typefaces to use, nothing grand and no image or color yet, but i thought it'd be a start! i was going for a clear separation between the plone and chix, with more awesomeness to the 'chix' half of course. 

any other ideas or themes to work with? or a style you have in mind? i like some of the ideas on the t-shirt page, too. =)

regarding the blog, great first post Liz! i was wondering though, you mentioned cut/pasting between sites causes that KeyError: i'm working on this big site right now that essentially merged three of our existing sites, and i totally copy/pasted a ton of the content from foo1, foo2, and foo3 to the new bar. it's been working fine since i did that (maybe a month or two ago), but did i totally shoot myself in the foot from the get go..? or does that only apply to things in the custom folder..? =/

- trish

[David Glick]

Trish Ang wrote:
> regarding the blog, great first post Liz! i was wondering though, you
> mentioned cut/pasting between sites causes that KeyError: i'm working
> on this big site right now that essentially merged three of our
> existing sites, and i totally copy/pasted a ton of the content from
> foo1, foo2, and foo3 to the new bar. it's been working fine since i
> did that (maybe a month or two ago), but did i totally shoot myself in
> the foot from the get go..? or does that only apply to things in the
> custom folder..? =/

Do you pack your database regularly? If you do, and you're using ZODB
3.7.x (the default in Zope 2.10), and you're NOT getting exceptions like
KeyError: 'm' when you try to pack, then you're probably okay. If any
of that is not the case, then you either already have a problem or you
might have problems later on when you try to pack the db and something
gets erroneously garbage collected. You might want to try the script I
posted on my blog a couple days ago --
http://david.wglick.org/2009/recombining-zodb-storages/ -- to merge the
database together completely.
hope this helps,
David

[Elizabeth Leddy]

regarding the blog, great first post Liz! i was wondering though, you mentioned cut/pasting between sites causes that KeyError: i'm working on this big site right now that essentially merged three of our existing sites, and i totally copy/pasted a ton of the content from foo1, foo2, and foo3 to the new bar. it's been working fine since i did that (maybe a month or two ago), but did i totally shoot myself in the foot from the get go..? or does that only apply to things in the custom folder..? =/

it looks like the post is already helping! it really only matters if the sites were originally mounted on different zodbs before they were merged.  If the content before and after paste existing in the same Data.fs, you are totally fine. If you don't know if that happened or not, let me know and I'll help you figure it out. You can always run the fsrefs script to see if you are screwed.

If things were from different mounts, no worries. there is still time to fix it. First and foremost, don't let anyone pack the db. Next, you need to recreate those items that were pasted in the local db. If there are a few its simple, but if there are a lot then its best to programmatically copy and paste. 

for future reference, in general, its always recommended to copy and paste, then delete the original. Don't be like me and learn the hard way :)

hth, 

Liz

<logo-v1.jpg>

[Elizabeth Leddy]

>>
> Do you pack your database regularly? If you do, and you're using ZODB 3.7.x (the default in Zope 2.10), and you're NOT getting exceptions like KeyError: 'm' when you try to pack, then you're probably okay. If any of that is not the case, then you either already have a problem or you might have problems later on when you try to pack the db and something gets erroneously garbage collected. You might want to try the script I posted on my blog a couple days ago -- http://david.wglick.org/2009/recombining-zodb-storages/ -- to merge the database together completely.

Nice post David. I'm actually curious as to what your bad storage strategy was and why you decided to combine them? use case?

Liz

[David Glick]

Elizabeth Leddy wrote:
>> Do you pack your database regularly? If you do, and you're using ZODB 3.7.x (the default in Zope 2.10), and you're NOT getting exceptions like KeyError: 'm' when you try to pack, then you're probably okay. If any of that is not the case, then you either already have a problem or you might have problems later on when you try to pack the db and something gets erroneously garbage collected. You might want to try the script I posted on my blog a couple days ago -- http://david.wglick.org/2009/recombining-zodb-storages/ -- to merge the database together completely.
>>
>
> Nice post David. I'm actually curious as to what your bad storage strategy was and why you decided to combine them? use case?
>

I divided a single Plone site into 4 filestorages so that I could manage
the ZODB cache size separately for different sections of the site. I
wasn't aware when I did that of the issue with copy/paste between
shards, and it turns out that there's not as much need for that amount
of control as I thought (the different sections ended up containing
similar sorts of objects anyway).

Splitting apart the catalog into a separate filestorage is something
I've heard of people doing, and that makes more sense, since there's
little risk of ending up with cross-database references via copy/paste,
it's (relatively) easy to rebuild the catalog if something goes wrong,
and you want to make sure you can keep as much of the catalog as
possible in the ZODB cache, regardless of what other objects are being
loaded. It's still probably overkill except for a largish site.

ZODB 3.9 has an interesting feature where you can set the ZODB cache
size as an actual limit on RAM size used, rather than # of objects, but
it's not stable yet (something presumably isn't getting decremented
somewhere, so over time the ZODB decides that it doesn't have room to
cache *anything* anymore).

David

[Elizabeth Leddy]

> Splitting apart the catalog into a separate filestorage is something I've heard of people doing, and that makes more sense, since there's little risk of ending up with cross-database references via copy/paste, it's (relatively) easy to rebuild the catalog if something goes wrong, and you want to make sure you can keep as much of the catalog as possible in the ZODB cache, regardless of what other objects are being loaded. It's still probably overkill except for a largish site.

This is the part I was interested in (and have implemented) but then I saw a comment on your post where some guy had a reference error or something from his shards and had a little bit of a freak out. Do you think packing a mounted catalog cause the POS error? I haven't seen any issues yet but maybe I've been lucky. I can see how in theory it could happen but I'm not entirely familiar with how catalog references objects, especially in a different mount.

rebuilding our catalogs is easy to do, but we have so much data that it would take at least two days so I'm particularly interested in making sure that stuff doesn't corrupt out.

Loving this discussion btw,
liz

ps: indeed, I be lucky. the zeo hosting our catalogs was out of commission for a while so I took it out of the pack loop. when I brought it back into service I forgot to reenable pack. I may be afraid to ever enable it...

[David Glick]

Elizabeth Leddy wrote:
>> Splitting apart the catalog into a separate filestorage is something I've heard of people doing, and that makes more sense, since there's little risk of ending up with cross-database references via copy/paste, it's (relatively) easy to rebuild the catalog if something goes wrong, and you want to make sure you can keep as much of the catalog as possible in the ZODB cache, regardless of what other objects are being loaded. It's still probably overkill except for a largish site.
>>
> This is the part I was interested in (and have implemented) but then I saw a comment on your post where some guy had a reference error or something from his shards and had a little bit of a freak out. Do you think packing a mounted catalog cause the POS error? I haven't seen any issues yet but maybe I've been lucky. I can see how in theory it could happen but I'm not entirely familiar with how catalog references objects, especially in a different mount.
>

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what happened there; I think the catalog just
keys by path. Maybe there was a persistent object used as an index
value or metadata?

> rebuilding our catalogs is easy to do, but we have so much data that it would take at least two days so I'm particularly interested in making sure that stuff doesn't corrupt out.
>

Right.

> ps: indeed, I be lucky. the zeo hosting our catalogs was out of commission for a while so I took it out of the pack loop. when I brought it back into service I forgot to reenable pack. I may be afraid to ever enable it...

FWIW, in ZODB 3.9 you can disallow cross-references by setting the
allow-implicit-cross-references option to false. Too bad it's tricky to
get ZODB 3.9 working with Plone < 4.0...

David

[Trish Ang]

great, thanks a lot you two! I double checked and we pack the database weekly. no key errors in any of the logs as far as I can tell. 

for future reference, in general, its always recommended to copy and paste, then delete the original. Don't be like me and learn the hard way :)

will definitely keep this in mind in the future! =)

[Elizabeth Leddy]

> Yeah, I'm not quite sure what happened there; I think the catalog just keys by path. Maybe there was a persistent object used as an index value or metadata?

I guess when in doubt open the source. From ZCatalog.py:

ZCatalog does not store references to the objects themselves, but
rather to a unique identifier that defines how to get to the
object. In Zope, this unique idenfier is the object's relative
path to the ZCatalog (since two Zope object's cannot have the same
URL, this is an excellent unique qualifier in Zope).

So, it seems that its ok to pack mounted catalog dbs then. You go first........

> FWIW, in ZODB 3.9 you can disallow cross-references by setting the allow-implicit-cross-references option to false. Too bad it's tricky to get ZODB 3.9 working with Plone < 4.0...

Yeah - I'll migrate at some point so for now I just put up a giant sign in the office that states "If you cut objects from one portal to another, you are fired". scare tactics ftw!

liz

[David Glick]

Elizabeth Leddy wrote:
>> Yeah, I'm not quite sure what happened there; I think the catalog just keys by path. Maybe there was a persistent object used as an index value or metadata?
>>
> I guess when in doubt open the source. From ZCatalog.py:
>
> ZCatalog does not store references to the objects themselves, but
> rather to a unique identifier that defines how to get to the
> object. In Zope, this unique idenfier is the object's relative
> path to the ZCatalog (since two Zope object's cannot have the same
> URL, this is an excellent unique qualifier in Zope).
>

Wow, the rare and elusive Zope source code comment!

> So, it seems that its ok to pack mounted catalog dbs then. You go first........
>

You could always try it out on a copy of the db, I suppose.

>> FWIW, in ZODB 3.9 you can disallow cross-references by setting the allow-implicit-cross-references option to false. Too bad it's tricky to get ZODB 3.9 working with Plone < 4.0...
>>
> Yeah - I'll migrate at some point so for now I just put up a giant sign in the office that states "If you cut objects from one portal to another, you are fired". scare tactics ftw!
>

lol.

David

[eleddy]

Btw help on the fonts/design would be AWESOME! I am hoping to attend
sxsw and/or pycon next year so it would be nice to have things
designed by then so I can P-I-M-P.

I really like kabel and quicksand fonts but I'm not super stoked on
the combos. I'm not a type person though so I'm not claiming any
knowledge here :) The marketing font does make me reminiscent of an
old diner and rosie the riveter. could be an interesting theme to work
with.

I'm a little nervous about the logo trademark rules - joann is that ok
to use the work plone without the logo?

liz

On Dec 4, 10:57 am, Trish Ang <feeshsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hi, all. nice to meet everyone, kind of!
>
> and logo, eh? i mightcould work on that, or a theme. i've got some free
> (read: furloughed!) time coming up later December. attaching a draft of
> potential typefaces to use, nothing grand and no image or color yet, but i
> thought it'd be a start! i was going for a clear separation between the
> plone and chix, with more awesomeness to the 'chix' half of course.
>
> any other ideas or themes to work with? or a style you have in mind? i like

> some of the ideas on the t-shirt page<http://plonechix.pbworks.com/T-shirts>,

> too. =)
>
> regarding the blog, great first post Liz! i was wondering though, you
> mentioned cut/pasting between sites causes that KeyError: i'm working on
> this big site right now that essentially merged three of our existing sites,
> and i totally copy/pasted a ton of the content from foo1, foo2, and foo3 to
> the new bar. it's been working fine since i did that (maybe a month or two
> ago), but did i totally shoot myself in the foot from the get go..? or does
> that only apply to things in the custom folder..? =/
>
> - trish
>

> > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Elizabeth Leddy <camemb...@gmail.com>

> > wrote:
> > >> if you can get the former to happen that would be sweet but I don't know
> > how.  I was just going to create accounts.  I think I sent you an invite to
> > modify it already - did you get that?
>
> > >> Liz
>
> > >> On Dec 3, 2009, at 12:22 PM, JoAnna Springsteen wrote:
>
> > >>> Liz-
>
> > >>> Ok so how does this work? Can I just hook up my existing blog feed
> > >>> into PloneChix blog and have it appear? Or do I send you a post? Or do
> > >>> you create individuals accounts on the plonechix blog and let us at
> > >>> it?
>
> > >>> JoAnna
>

> > >>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:09 PM, eleddy <camemb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> It's true! Blogging is a GREAT way to increase visibility of women in
> > >>>> the community. Check it out athttp://plonechix.blogspot.com/(and
> > >>>> will soon be registered with Planet Plone). If you don't contribute
> > >>>> regularly to your own blog (or even if you do) I encourage every one
> > >>>> to post something- a how to, sweet tip or trick, or a community
> > >>>> observation, whatever you like.
>
> > >>>> Holla at me if you want to contribute!
>
> > >>>> ~Liz (eleddy)
>
>
>

>  logo-v1.jpg
> 319KViewDownload

[JoAnna Springsteen]

I need to check on this but if we use the word plone in a logo we have
to use the correct font. No exceptions.
It is a logo type so we can't mess with it. And I believe we have to
have the word plone physically separate from the word chix.

To be safe I would avoid any kind of logotype treatment of plonechix.

J.
Sent from my iPhone

[Trish Ang]

Ah interesting! Hadn't thought of that, sorry. Looks like it might be okay based on the policy on their website, but maybe it'd be safer to go with a graphical logo instead? 

On that line, we could do something with literal 'chicks', or something with the obvious female symbol. Or some kind of derivation of the blue dots, like they used for the South America Symposium? =)

[Elizabeth Leddy]

I love the female plone symbol. love it! It reminds me of googles women in eng logo. Love it!

On Dec 5, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Trish Ang wrote:

Ah interesting! Hadn't thought of that, sorry. Looks like it might be okay based on the policy on their website, but maybe it'd be safer to go with a graphical logo instead? 

On that line, we could do something with literal 'chicks', or something with the obvious female symbol. Or some kind of derivation of the blue dots, like they used for the South America Symposium? =)

<logo-v2.jpg>

<banner-pssa.jpg>

[catchatige...@gmail.com]

I notice SXSW is finally posting talks for the 2010 conference:

http://sxsw.com/interactive/talks/panels

I found the interactive session a few years ago a bit yawnworthy, but
it was great to meet folks like Jeffrey Zeldman and Eric Meyer.
Highly recommended.

[Elizabeth Leddy]

Changed the thread title...

Is anyone going to sxsw this year? I have gone for the past two years and while I can vouch that the panels often lack, I have to say its the best networking you'll do all year (not to mention drinking/partying). seconding the recommendation.

what about pycon?

liz

[catchatige...@gmail.com]

I got approval this morning to go. Looks like I'm going to the
interactive portion for my Plone work and to the film portion to be
present at my film's festival debut.

I worked as videographer for SXSW in 2006, including the interactive
bit. I found that a bit dry, but it's well worth going anyways, yes,
esp. if you're in the market for a new job (which is *not* why I am
going).

No pycon for me this year, but the topic is coming up at our Plone
meeting tomorrow.

[JoAnna]

On Dec 7, 5:54 pm, Elizabeth Leddy <camemb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I love the female plone symbol. love it! It reminds me of googles women in eng logo. Love it!

The female symbol is pretty cool but it seems it has caused a stink.
I've heard rumblings of a fight breaking out on the IP committee list
about it. Guessing it violates logo standards as well. :-/

> > On that line, we could do something with literal 'chicks', or something with the obvious female symbol. Or some kind of derivation of the blue dots, like they used for the South America Symposium? =)
>

Of course i love our little chick as seen here http://plonechix.pbworks.com/T-shirts
and I love the one you did with the her and the little plone peep.
And doing a derivation of the dots like the South America Symposium
looks totally great and is acceptable.


When do we need something by in order to have it for SXSW or Pycon or
what have you?
Trish you are obviously very talented!! We've got some great ideas
going, I know we'll come up with something!

What is everyone leaning towards so far? Now that we know we'll have
people at upcoming events we have deadlines to work towards. I'm super
excited for those of you who get to attend!!!
Would you gals be available for an IRC chat here before the holidays
so we can do a little group brainstorm, pick a direction and move on
it? I don't know how your offices are but the few days right before
the holidays are pretty slow so I'll probably have time.


JoAnna