[Plone-i18n] full translation for Plone4
Weisglass Ofer
I am working with translation company in london to update and check the arabic transltion for plone the problem is that they can not use poedit and also in order
to give me price offer they asked for how many values need to be translated
it is possible to export only the values to word or exael tamplte
so i can email them or print?
also willing to donate later that this company will check and tranlate other translations
Ofer Weisglass
Vincent Fretin
You will have to create scripts to extract untranslated messages to csv and to merge back csv to po file I guess.
You can look at i18ndude code or http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Babel for a Message Catalogs API.
Vincent
Weisglass Ofer
where i can see the list of languges and how much is ready
Giacomo Spettoli
- 2067 strings
- 499 aren't translated
- 63 strings were modified since last translation and need to be re-traslated.
it wouldn't be too difficult having plone translations in excel/word format with a bit of vim-work and some regular expression but...to revert the process, that won't be easy. IMHO there are two ways for doing that:
1- as Vincent suggested, you will need to write import/export scripts
2- it looks like there is a web-based po editor (http://code.google.com/p/simplepo/). However I couldn't find a demo, so you will have to install it by your self (any LAMP system will suffice).
Cheers
Giacomo
-- Giacomo Spettoli T: http://twitter.com/giacomospettoli S: http://careers.stackoverflow.com/giacomospettoli L: http://linkedin.com/in/giacomospettoli Company site: http://redomino.com Blog: http://www.spettoli.com
Russ Ferriday
it wouldn't be too difficult having plone translations in excel/word format with a bit of vim-work and some regular expression but...to revert the process, that won't be easy. IMHO there are two ways for doing that:
1- as Vincent suggested, you will need to write import/export scripts
2- it looks like there is a web-based po editor (http://code.google.com/p/simplepo/). However I couldn't find a demo, so you will have to install it by your self (any LAMP system will suffice).
Weisglass Ofer
i mean see all the full translation list and which more other langugues
are needed more care as can and willing to give to the translation company to work on other languages
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Russ Ferriday
i mean see all the full translation list and which more other langugues
are needed more care as can and willing to give to the translation company to work on other languages
Russ Ferriday -- Software and Systems Architect/Developer
Armin Stroß-Radschinski
to use a common translation memory try:
http://translate.google.com/toolkit/list?hl=en#translations/active
and check out other options.
Another hint is:
https://www.transifex.net/
as a commercial translation collaboration platform.
Upcoming Talks
There will be a talk of Wolfgang Thomas at the german Plone Konferenz
in February:
http://konferenz.plone.de
This includes using XLIFF. Not sure if it is usable to managfe po
files as well, but it will be worth a look.
Here is the unreleased abstract in german (try translator tools ;-)
the programm will be online soon!
syslab his company is author of some internationalisation helper tools
for LinguaPlone (this is offtopic for po files) but he is into the
topic as well!
Wolfgang Thomas:
Mehrsprachige Sites erstellen und verwalten - Tipps aus der Praxis
Die Möglichkeit, Inhalte oder ganze Sites mehrsprachig anzubieten, ist
eine der Stärken von Plone. Nach einer kurzen Einführung in die
Thematik der Internationalisierung (i18n) beschäftigt sich der Vortrag
mit verschiedenen Aspekten, die dabei eine Rolle spielen. Der
Schwerpunkt liegt auf praktischen Beispielen, nützlichen Werkzeugen
und häufigen Stolperfallen.
- Äste oder in situ - Welche Site-Struktur ist sinnvoll?
- Inhalte übersetzen - Die Macht von XLIFF
- Locales, gettext, po-Dateien - automatisieren und Überblick behalten
- Plone hat's falsch übersetzt - was tun?
- Fehlende Übersetzungen - wie frustriere ich meine Nutzer möglichst
wenig?
- Sprachumschalter - was sollte ich beachten?
- Kleine Helferlein - welche Tools und Pakete bieten Unterstützung?
- Stolperfallen - mo kompilieren, Länge von Texten, Sprachenmix, ...
Armin
P.S.
At last: Think about changing the translation company if they are not
state of the art or bring them to state of the art or integrate them
state of the art ;-)
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--
Armin Carl Stroß-Radschinski, Dipl. Designer
acsr industrialdesign, Landgrafenstraße 32, 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
Telefon +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 94, FAX +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 96
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Weisglass Ofer
they do not usually know translation tools online
and they can study if i pay for more working hours
translation of plone is very important and i would like to check how much will cost to finish and update the traslation for most poplar langugue
and my comapny can donate this work
Ed Manlove
This is a very generous offer and I know the Plone community truly
appreciates your willingness to help with the translation of Plone.
As a I recall from past conversations with others, and Vincent has much
better knowledge about this subject then I, there is an active community of
Plone translators who are to one degree or another actively translating
Plone. For example, looking at rough numbers of translations of Plone
4.1, there are 33 languages that are 70% to 100% or fully translated.
Those with 90% or better all have current maintainers for those
languages and combined have roughly only a tiny fraction of untranslated
phrases (note I said phrases and not words). Of the remaining 12
languages which are 89% down to 70% translated only three have current
maintainers. So one issue with hiring an "outside" translation firm is
coordinating between the active Plone translation communities to prevent
overlapping work and building long-term Plone community resources within
those currently unmaintained languages.
Another issues with hiring translators is having contextual knowledge of
the Plone infrastructure and usage. In other words having an
understanding of how Plone is used and the steps a user needs to perform
a task within Plone gives rise to a specialized language that needs to
be carefully translated. This is sometimes, not always, tough to
achieve with translators unfamiliar with content management systems or
Plone.
Vincent please correctly me if I am wrong here, but hiring translators
to fully translate these roughly 20 languages might not be the best use
of your resources. Besides working to build resources within less active
major languages there is a large pressing need within Plone concerning
internationalization; that is multilingual support within dexterity.
There has been much talk about the next generation of Plone i18n and
other next generation technologies like dexterity but little, as yet,
coordinated action on spec'ing out and coding the next generation of
Plone i18n capabilities. One reason repeatedly cited for lack of action
is lack of support.
Again this is a very generous offer and I am only trying to highlight
what might be a greater need that currently is not being meet within the
comminuty. Thank you Ofer for your continued support of the Plone
community.
Ed Manlove
On 12/29/2011 12:06 PM, Weisglass Ofer wrote:
> the translation company is giving price offer by counting words by
> 1000 words.
> they do not usually know translation tools online
> and they can study if i pay for more working hours
>
> translation of plone is very important and i would like to check how
> much will cost to finish and update the traslation for most poplar
> langugue
> and my comapny can donate this work
>
>
>
> 2011/12/29 Armin Stroß-Radschinski <deve...@acsr.de
> <mailto:deve...@acsr.de>>
> > ru...@topia.com <mailto:ru...@topia.com> -- +1 (805) 910 7877
> <tel:%2B1%20%28805%29%20910%207877> -- www.topia.com
> <http://www.topia.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI
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> > costs. Try it free!
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> <mailto:Plone...@lists.sourceforge.net>
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>
>
>
> --
> Armin Carl Stroß-Radschinski, Dipl. Designer
> acsr industrialdesign, Landgrafenstraße 32, 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
>
> Telefon +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 94
> <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%2022%2041%20%2F%2094%2069%2094>, FAX +49 (0)
> 22 41 / 94 69 96 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%2022%2041%20%2F%2094%2069%2096>
> eMail a.stross-r...@acsr.de
> <mailto:a.stross-r...@acsr.de> - http://www.acsr.de
> UST. ID Nr: DE154092803 (EU VAT ID)
>
>
>
>
>
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Armin Stroß-Radschinski
Am 30.12.2011 um 19:49 schrieb Ed Manlove:
> Ofer,
>
> This is a very generous offer and I know the Plone community truly
> appreciates your willingness to help with the translation of Plone.
>
> ...
> Another issues with hiring translators is having contextual
> knowledge of
> the Plone infrastructure and usage. In other words having an
> understanding of how Plone is used and the steps a user needs to
> perform
> a task within Plone gives rise to a specialized language that needs to
> be carefully translated. This is sometimes, not always, tough to
> achieve with translators unfamiliar with content management systems or
> Plone.
Thanks Ed for the points.
We had these issues recently with other translations of some marketing
text by a translator that obviously (in spite of expectations) was not
into the target groups usual language. After some paragraphs it was
cruel for me to read it to the end.
Translators need a close relationship to the target market, be mother
tongue and still living in this language current context. This is from
the view of perfection in the terms of language elegance and
understanding. On the other hand it is possible to have perfect
orthografic text, that makes still no sense from the point of view of
the reader in the context of the current webpage. In this case a basic
translation by specialists (in CMS Workflows, not Programming) is
helpful, knowing all the specific terms in Plone and in this business.
For external translators the text should be visible and understood in
his CMS context!
Translation memories needed for teams
For a constant wording through all the different translations a
translation memory database is a must when working with multiple
translators. As we have already have maintainers, this resource should
be shared between the community translators and externally helping
translators.
Overhauling existing translations may be a helpful quality insurance
task when a translation memory is build or used.
If there is a lack of quality in the translations, that is not
acceptable for one customer, his contribution should aim at
overhauling existing translations. In all cases a community member
that knows and accepts the rules for collaboration should guide the
professional service translator through the process. So the costs for
this are natural part of the service.
If you cannot manage the quality insurance for the service yourself,
the question remains if a perfect translation with files broken by
newbees is more helpful than a running system with some funny mistakes
or something missing and falling back to english.
I am a little bit afraid of that company due it has no fundamental
experience in the area they want to work for. Charging for learning
the basic specs of a contractors interface is a must if you are
customer oriented. There are a lot of companies familiar with po files
out there.
In your case you should think about changing your partner if they
resist on their position after some negotiation!
Armin
>
> ...
Telefon +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 94, FAX +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 96
eMail a.stross-r...@acsr.de - http://www.acsr.de
UST. ID Nr: DE154092803 (EU VAT ID)
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Vincent Fretin
What a long post, thanks Ed and Armin. :)
I totally agree with you two.
The translator should even be testing the translation in Plone, sometime you have to know where the text appears in the page to correctly translate it.
Happy new year
Vincent
Ed Manlove
> The translator should even be testing the translation in Plone,
> sometime you have to know where the text appears in the page to
> correctly translate it.
>
> Happy new year
> Vincent
called TranslateInPlace. At one point I upgraded it to work with Plone
4.x. The product highlights terms within a Plone site which requires
translation. In my version there is a small icon near the personal
toolbar which toggles on and off this functionality. Clicking on the
highlighted untranslated text brought up a pop-up form from adding the
translation. As I recall there were a few bugs and some needed extra
functionality (like tool for indicating where in the site untranslated
terms are located, utilities for recording the translator's information
possible using sign-in credentials, utilities for merging changes into
po files for adding into plone core, etc). For more information see
With a little bit of work this should again work for 4.x.
Ed
Weisglass Ofer
I did the Hebrew and also did the Arabic translation project up to 2
years ago about
when first found the Arabic it was about less than half and after few
months of work
and also after I hired and payed for workers as it was from the
university of Manchester
and than company from Italy finished it up to done the whole
translation so the translation
and status of how to translate is totally not new to me.
I did yesterday a plan to hire a project manager for this who can be
from the Plone community and will manage this by mid this year from
the UK for few hours a month.
as I see it now it will be impossible to work only with one
translation company and need
at least 2 companies for more languages.
the problem is that for example in Hebrew there is not just the Hebrew
files but also the right to left css and bugs which are still always I
am trying to check from time to time.
one more problem that you can not see as you already inside the Plone
community is
that it is very very technical skills in order to understand the files
what is going on and what is when.
Other project/problem is the documents which are mainly in English and
it is very very hard
to find other languages if you want for the documents how to use so
translation of documents and Plone.Org updated help can make much
motivation for people to use plone
and not look for other solutions so fast
I belie that in order to have Plone updated with the new big update it
must be partnership and working toghter of both professional
translators and as well as skilled people from the plone community as
you wrote but I see that there is growing gap where Plone is been used
and the languages that are less translated (hope you can understand my
meaning).
also I would like to make it also clear that also if you not plan when
people see the website and their browser is set on specific languages
they will see the Plone website by the languages and this is very
important even if you did not develop the website for this market
I see that it can be during 2012 as today is new year that all during
all the year with work and mabye one big meeting as i18n sprint the
translation can be fully for most languages and later also invest much
more to the languages which right now not in used at all.