Nokia Series 60 experiements
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Mikko Ohtamaa
Feb 18, 2009, 6:02:07 PM2/18/09
to phonegap
Hi,
We have made some experiements with Nokia Series 60 "Browser Control"
component. Basically I think we know what it would take to port
PhoneGap to S60 and I know want to share this (so that no one needs to
bang head to a wall again).
There are two ways control the browser in S60: Browser Control and
application overlay. The application overlay opens a new browser
window on the top of your application. You cannot customize the
browser UI, the options menu or anything else, so I think this is not
a good approach because of the lack of control.
Then there is Browser Control
http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/47d8a7fe-768c-44e5-bc26-fcba0a05e35e/S60_Platform_Browser_Control_API_Guide_v2_0_en.pdf.html
which is "the right way" to embed
WebKit in your application. You have total control over the surrouding
UI. But looks like it the Browser Control itself is not the most
robust piece of software and tends to have uncatchable crashes in
various situations (page does not load, the page load is interrupted)
and is stable enough only for offline applications.
Also, we lack something like stringByEvaluatingJavaScriptFromString in
the public API, so we cannot feed any data from the phone to the
Javascript easily. However, it is possible for the shell application
to have native code to listen to localhost socket for which Javascript
connects using AJAX requests. Kuneri's KuneriLite does exactly this
for Flash Lite.
The third option is just wait 5 years when Nokia device base is
satured by Series 60 fifth edition device which supports Nokia's Web
Run-Time 1.1. WRT is Nokia's proprietary, closed, PhoneGap like
platform.
http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Category:Web_Runtime_(WRT)
Some Nokia Series 60 devices support Web Run-Time 1.0 with an software
update, but version 1.0 lacks all "PhoneGap abilities" like GPS. Both
WRT technologies allow capsulating web application to installable
Series 60 packages. Nokia doesn't seem to be keen on backporting WRT
1.1 to older devices, so this technology has currently near-zero
market base.
I think we are not pursuiting Series 60 very actively anymore, unless
we got a customer case for it. We'll just wait that WRT 1.1 is
widespread enough and make a PhoneGap adapter for it.
Some experiemental Python code:
https://code.launchpad.net/~jussi-toivola/pys60community/browserbranch
Cheers,
Mikko
http://www.twinapex.com
We have made some experiements with Nokia Series 60 "Browser Control"
component. Basically I think we know what it would take to port
PhoneGap to S60 and I know want to share this (so that no one needs to
bang head to a wall again).
There are two ways control the browser in S60: Browser Control and
application overlay. The application overlay opens a new browser
window on the top of your application. You cannot customize the
browser UI, the options menu or anything else, so I think this is not
a good approach because of the lack of control.
Then there is Browser Control
http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/47d8a7fe-768c-44e5-bc26-fcba0a05e35e/S60_Platform_Browser_Control_API_Guide_v2_0_en.pdf.html
which is "the right way" to embed
WebKit in your application. You have total control over the surrouding
UI. But looks like it the Browser Control itself is not the most
robust piece of software and tends to have uncatchable crashes in
various situations (page does not load, the page load is interrupted)
and is stable enough only for offline applications.
Also, we lack something like stringByEvaluatingJavaScriptFromString in
the public API, so we cannot feed any data from the phone to the
Javascript easily. However, it is possible for the shell application
to have native code to listen to localhost socket for which Javascript
connects using AJAX requests. Kuneri's KuneriLite does exactly this
for Flash Lite.
The third option is just wait 5 years when Nokia device base is
satured by Series 60 fifth edition device which supports Nokia's Web
Run-Time 1.1. WRT is Nokia's proprietary, closed, PhoneGap like
platform.
http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Category:Web_Runtime_(WRT)
Some Nokia Series 60 devices support Web Run-Time 1.0 with an software
update, but version 1.0 lacks all "PhoneGap abilities" like GPS. Both
WRT technologies allow capsulating web application to installable
Series 60 packages. Nokia doesn't seem to be keen on backporting WRT
1.1 to older devices, so this technology has currently near-zero
market base.
I think we are not pursuiting Series 60 very actively anymore, unless
we got a customer case for it. We'll just wait that WRT 1.1 is
widespread enough and make a PhoneGap adapter for it.
Some experiemental Python code:
https://code.launchpad.net/~jussi-toivola/pys60community/browserbranch
Cheers,
Mikko
http://www.twinapex.com
Robin
Feb 19, 2009, 2:34:21 AM2/19/09
to phonegap
I do think the conclusion of using WRT1.1 for PhoneGap is the right
approach. This API has all the features of PhoneGap so just needs a
Javascript layer to translate between the 2 APIs.
WRT1.1 already exists and can be found in the Nokia 5800. This is a
touch phone with a Safari brower and its possible to create code which
runs across all the PhoneGap handsets (with the possible exception of
Blackberry -dependent on your Javascript). The 5800 has a screen size
of 360x640 pixels so you just have to be aware your code has to take
account of screen dimensions and/or use CSS 100% commands. I am
currently developing an application which runs on 5800, with the same
(HTML,CSS and JS) code running on the iPhone via PhoneGap (I am not
using location, contacts etc so have not written any JS translation
layers).
Th next Nokia phone where this is possible is the N97 due in summer.
Even though it may take several years for all Nokia phones to support
WRT1.1, I would be aware that the number of phones sold for each model
is signficant outside the US.
Robin
On Feb 18, 11:02 pm, Mikko Ohtamaa <sna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have made some experiements with Nokia Series 60 "Browser Control"
> component. Basically I think we know what it would take to port
> PhoneGap to S60 and I know want to share this (so that no one needs to
> bang head to a wall again).
>
> There are two ways control the browser in S60: Browser Control and
> application overlay. The application overlay opens a new browser
> window on the top of your application. You cannot customize the
> browser UI, the options menu or anything else, so I think this is not
> a good approach because of the lack of control.
>
> Then there is Browser Controlhttp://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/47d8a7fe-768c-44e5-bc...
approach. This API has all the features of PhoneGap so just needs a
Javascript layer to translate between the 2 APIs.
WRT1.1 already exists and can be found in the Nokia 5800. This is a
touch phone with a Safari brower and its possible to create code which
runs across all the PhoneGap handsets (with the possible exception of
Blackberry -dependent on your Javascript). The 5800 has a screen size
of 360x640 pixels so you just have to be aware your code has to take
account of screen dimensions and/or use CSS 100% commands. I am
currently developing an application which runs on 5800, with the same
(HTML,CSS and JS) code running on the iPhone via PhoneGap (I am not
using location, contacts etc so have not written any JS translation
layers).
Th next Nokia phone where this is possible is the N97 due in summer.
Even though it may take several years for all Nokia phones to support
WRT1.1, I would be aware that the number of phones sold for each model
is signficant outside the US.
Robin
On Feb 18, 11:02 pm, Mikko Ohtamaa <sna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have made some experiements with Nokia Series 60 "Browser Control"
> component. Basically I think we know what it would take to port
> PhoneGap to S60 and I know want to share this (so that no one needs to
> bang head to a wall again).
>
> There are two ways control the browser in S60: Browser Control and
> application overlay. The application overlay opens a new browser
> window on the top of your application. You cannot customize the
> browser UI, the options menu or anything else, so I think this is not
> a good approach because of the lack of control.
>
dave johnson
Feb 19, 2009, 2:41:48 AM2/19/09
to phon...@googlegroups.com
I agree that WRT is probably the way to go. I am looking into the BrowserControl a bit as well and it looks like the communication between the JavaScript and native code might be similar to what we have done for the BlackBerry.
Robin I agree it's important to remember the Nokia usage worldwide! They are the main smartphone company in India and over a large part of Europe / Africa. Check out the AdMob stats here http://www.admob.com/s/solutions/metrics
-dave
Robin I agree it's important to remember the Nokia usage worldwide! They are the main smartphone company in India and over a large part of Europe / Africa. Check out the AdMob stats here http://www.admob.com/s/solutions/metrics
-dave
dave johnson
Feb 19, 2009, 2:42:03 AM2/19/09
to phon...@googlegroups.com
I agree that WRT is probably the way to go. I am looking into the BrowserControl a bit as well and it looks like the communication between the JavaScript and native code might be similar to what we have done for the BlackBerry.
Robin I agree it's important to remember the Nokia usage worldwide! They are the main smartphone company in India and over a large part of Europe / Africa. Check out the AdMob stats here http://www.admob.com/s/solutions/metrics
-dave
Robin I agree it's important to remember the Nokia usage worldwide! They are the main smartphone company in India and over a large part of Europe / Africa. Check out the AdMob stats here http://www.admob.com/s/solutions/metrics
-dave
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Robin <robin.j...@gmail.com> wrote:
Oscar B
Apr 15, 2009, 6:07:15 AM4/15/09
to phonegap
Maybe this could help:
http://code.google.com/p/htmlcontrol-for-symbian/
Best,
Oscar B
On 19 feb, 09:42, dave johnson <dave.c.john...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree that WRT is probably the way to go. I am looking into the
> BrowserControl a bit as well and it looks like the communication between the
> JavaScript and native code might be similar to what we have done for the
> BlackBerry.
>
> Robin I agree it's important to remember the Nokia usage worldwide! They are
> the main smartphone company in India and over a large part of Europe /
> Africa. Check out the AdMob stats herehttp://www.admob.com/s/solutions/metrics
>
> -dave
> > >http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Category:Web_Runtime_(WRT)<http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Category:Web_Runtime_%28WRT%29>
>
> > > Cheers,
> > > Mikko
>
> > >http://www.twinapex.com
http://code.google.com/p/htmlcontrol-for-symbian/
Best,
Oscar B
On 19 feb, 09:42, dave johnson <dave.c.john...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree that WRT is probably the way to go. I am looking into the
> BrowserControl a bit as well and it looks like the communication between the
> JavaScript and native code might be similar to what we have done for the
> BlackBerry.
>
> Robin I agree it's important to remember the Nokia usage worldwide! They are
> the main smartphone company in India and over a large part of Europe /
>
> -dave
>
> > > Some Nokia Series 60 devices support Web Run-Time 1.0 with an software
> > > update, but version 1.0 lacks all "PhoneGap abilities" like GPS. Both
> > > WRT technologies allow capsulating web application to installable
> > > Series 60 packages. Nokia doesn't seem to be keen on backporting WRT
> > > 1.1 to older devices, so this technology has currently near-zero
> > > market base.
>
> > > I think we are not pursuiting Series 60 very actively anymore, unless
> > > we got a customer case for it. We'll just wait that WRT 1.1 is
> > > widespread enough and make a PhoneGap adapter for it.
>
> > > Some experiemental Python code:
>
> > >https://code.launchpad.net/~jussi-toivola/pys60community/browserbranch<https://code.launchpad.net/%7Ejussi-toivola/pys60community/browserbranch>
> > > Some Nokia Series 60 devices support Web Run-Time 1.0 with an software
> > > update, but version 1.0 lacks all "PhoneGap abilities" like GPS. Both
> > > WRT technologies allow capsulating web application to installable
> > > Series 60 packages. Nokia doesn't seem to be keen on backporting WRT
> > > 1.1 to older devices, so this technology has currently near-zero
> > > market base.
>
> > > I think we are not pursuiting Series 60 very actively anymore, unless
> > > we got a customer case for it. We'll just wait that WRT 1.1 is
> > > widespread enough and make a PhoneGap adapter for it.
>
> > > Some experiemental Python code:
>
>
> > > Cheers,
> > > Mikko
>
> > >http://www.twinapex.com
Nunzio Fiore
Apr 15, 2009, 6:08:59 AM4/15/09
to phon...@googlegroups.com
thisi is a great link
thanks
Moonkiki
David Oliver
Apr 15, 2009, 8:52:39 AM4/15/09
to phonegap
Mikko,
Thanks for this review. Unfortunate that 'Browser Control' is not
robust enough. Guess we wait for WRT.
Dave Oliver
On Feb 18, 7:02 pm, Mikko Ohtamaa <sna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have made some experiements with Nokia Series 60 "Browser Control"
> component. Basically I think we know what it would take to port
> PhoneGap to S60 and I know want to share this (so that no one needs to
> bang head to a wall again).
>
> There are two ways control the browser in S60: Browser Control and
> application overlay. The application overlay opens a new browser
> window on the top of your application. You cannot customize the
> browser UI, the options menu or anything else, so I think this is not
> a good approach because of the lack of control.
>
> Then there is Browser Controlhttp://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/47d8a7fe-768c-44e5-bc...
Thanks for this review. Unfortunate that 'Browser Control' is not
robust enough. Guess we wait for WRT.
Dave Oliver
On Feb 18, 7:02 pm, Mikko Ohtamaa <sna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have made some experiements with Nokia Series 60 "Browser Control"
> component. Basically I think we know what it would take to port
> PhoneGap to S60 and I know want to share this (so that no one needs to
> bang head to a wall again).
>
> There are two ways control the browser in S60: Browser Control and
> application overlay. The application overlay opens a new browser
> window on the top of your application. You cannot customize the
> browser UI, the options menu or anything else, so I think this is not
> a good approach because of the lack of control.
>
Mikko Ohtamaa
Apr 22, 2009, 4:14:05 PM4/22/09
to phonegap
>
> Thanks for this review. Unfortunate that 'Browser Control' is not
> robust enough. Guess we wait for WRT.
Looks like our "competitors" have settled for it:
> Thanks for this review. Unfortunate that 'Browser Control' is not
> robust enough. Guess we wait for WRT.
http://github.com/rhomobile/rhodes/tree/95c3b691d1608e8ef17a5c06ec15dec9c0a82428/platform/symbian/rhodes/src
http://rhomobile.com
Rhomobile combines embedded Ruby (not just Javascript) + Browser UI.
It support "all" smartphones via JRuby and Ruby C implementations.
It's dual licensed under GPL - you need to pay for commercial
releases.
Cheers,
Mikko
Brian LeRoux
Apr 22, 2009, 5:15:56 PM4/22/09
to phon...@googlegroups.com
Rhodes is cool -- love Ruby -- but it really doesn't have anything on
general web tech. (html, css, js) That said, anything that gives us
better tooling for mobile app creation that is open source == win.
general web tech. (html, css, js) That said, anything that gives us
better tooling for mobile app creation that is open source == win.
Shazron
May 9, 2009, 5:02:22 PM5/9/09
to phonegap
Another option is Qt for S60. Currently there is no WebKit support
yet, but that will change (I hope). Qt's licensing changed in March to
a tri-license model, which now includes LGPL (in a nutshell, you can
use it commercially if you dynamically link to it). Qt dll overhead
however, is 10MB.
Shaz
On Apr 15, 5:52 am, David Oliver <oliver.davi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mikko,
>
> Thanks for this review. Unfortunate that 'Browser Control' is not
> robust enough. Guess we wait for WRT.
>
> Dave Oliver
>
> On Feb 18, 7:02 pm, Mikko Ohtamaa <sna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > We have made some experiements withNokiaSeries 60 "Browser Control"
> > platform.
>
> >http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Category:Web_Runtime_(WRT)
>
> > SomeNokiaSeries 60 devices support Web Run-Time 1.0 with an software
yet, but that will change (I hope). Qt's licensing changed in March to
a tri-license model, which now includes LGPL (in a nutshell, you can
use it commercially if you dynamically link to it). Qt dll overhead
however, is 10MB.
Shaz
On Apr 15, 5:52 am, David Oliver <oliver.davi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mikko,
>
> Thanks for this review. Unfortunate that 'Browser Control' is not
> robust enough. Guess we wait for WRT.
>
> Dave Oliver
>
> On Feb 18, 7:02 pm, Mikko Ohtamaa <sna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > component. Basically I think we know what it would take to port
> > PhoneGap to S60 and I know want to share this (so that no one needs to
> > bang head to a wall again).
>
> > There are two ways control the browser in S60: Browser Control and
> > application overlay. The application overlay opens a new browser
> > window on the top of your application. You cannot customize the
> > browser UI, the options menu or anything else, so I think this is not
> > a good approach because of the lack of control.
>
> > Then there is Browser Controlhttp://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/47d8a7fe-768c-44e5-bc...
> > which is "the right way" to embed
> > WebKit in your application. You have total control over the surrouding
> > UI. But looks like it the Browser Control itself is not the most
> > robust piece of software and tends to have uncatchable crashes in
> > various situations (page does not load, the page load is interrupted)
> > and is stable enough only for offline applications.
>
> > Also, we lack something like stringByEvaluatingJavaScriptFromString in
> > the public API, so we cannot feed any data from the phone to the
> > Javascript easily. However, it is possible for the shell application
> > to have native code to listen to localhost socket for which Javascript
> > connects using AJAX requests. Kuneri's KuneriLite does exactly this
> > for Flash Lite.
>
> > The third option is just wait 5 years whenNokiadevice base is
> > PhoneGap to S60 and I know want to share this (so that no one needs to
> > bang head to a wall again).
>
> > There are two ways control the browser in S60: Browser Control and
> > application overlay. The application overlay opens a new browser
> > window on the top of your application. You cannot customize the
> > browser UI, the options menu or anything else, so I think this is not
> > a good approach because of the lack of control.
>
> > Then there is Browser Controlhttp://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/47d8a7fe-768c-44e5-bc...
> > which is "the right way" to embed
> > WebKit in your application. You have total control over the surrouding
> > UI. But looks like it the Browser Control itself is not the most
> > robust piece of software and tends to have uncatchable crashes in
> > various situations (page does not load, the page load is interrupted)
> > and is stable enough only for offline applications.
>
> > Also, we lack something like stringByEvaluatingJavaScriptFromString in
> > the public API, so we cannot feed any data from the phone to the
> > Javascript easily. However, it is possible for the shell application
> > to have native code to listen to localhost socket for which Javascript
> > connects using AJAX requests. Kuneri's KuneriLite does exactly this
> > for Flash Lite.
>
> > satured by Series 60 fifth edition device which supportsNokia'sWeb
> > Run-Time 1.1. WRT isNokia'sproprietary, closed, PhoneGap like
> > platform.
>
> >http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Category:Web_Runtime_(WRT)
>
> > SomeNokiaSeries 60 devices support Web Run-Time 1.0 with an software
> > update, but version 1.0 lacks all "PhoneGap abilities" like GPS. Both
> > WRT technologies allow capsulating web application to installable
> > Series 60 packages.Nokiadoesn't seem to be keen on backporting WRT
> > WRT technologies allow capsulating web application to installable
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