Please leave your Vote - Is Homosexuality a Choice

[Mark Patro]

We hear this question over and over again:

Is Homosexuality a Choice?

Please go here to voice your opinion:
http://pflagbaltimore.blogspot.com/

If you feel so inclined leave a comment or register as a "follower" of the blog. There will be intermittent future postings.

Mark

p.s. Louise, Doug & June, please feel free to pass this along to others.

[Harriet Smith]

I would like to be removed from your list. I am so sick of this question and it does not matter. I am a person who deserves respect.

 

Please get me off this list.

 

Respectfully,

 

Harriet

[Hearts & Ears staff]

Good morning All,
My opinion is. What decent human being would want all of the negative that being gay comes with?
If we had to CHOOSE!Are you saying we choose to loose our family members, friends, jobs.Our Lives
for those who have? Our mental and physical state of mind and well being? Who would want this for
themselves. Now ask that Question? Please. Renae

Renae Sewell Executive Director
Hearts & Ears, Inc.
1133 Pennsylvania Avenue Suite 204
Baltimore, Md 21201
http://www.heartsandears.org




------- Original Message -------
From : Harriet Smith[mailto:Har...@taylor-wilksgroup.com]
Sent : 7/2/2009 3:40:07 PM
To : pflag-balti...@googlegroups.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: Please leave your Vote - Is Homosexuality a Choice

[Mark Patro]

Hi Renae,

By responding you just posted your thoughs on the Google group

[Eirinn]

I don't blog or twitter, I'm not on Facebook or any of the other places where I can put my life on display for others, and I have no desire to do so.  But I have to agree with Harriet.  Why are we still asking this question?  So others can take it upon themselves to decide that we made the "wrong" choice, and they are justified in treating us like dirt?
 
I got picked on in school for "being" gay, even though I didn't, and don't, identify as gay.  I was even told by teachers and other adults that I had brought the abuse on myself, by "being" the way I was.  It didn't take me long to go from "I don't deserve to be treated this way because I'm not gay" to: NOBODY deserves to be mistreated like this, whether they're gay or not.  Not a big leap, in my opinion.
 
We already have laws against actions that cause harm to other people.  And the penalties get more onerous year after year, as people mistakenly believe that laws are supposed to prevent such actions, rather than punish the offenders, and tougher penalties are pushed through the legislatures by these well-meaning, if mistaken, citizens.
 
In a pluralistic society, we as individuals have no business even trying to enact our complete moral code into law.  Legal and illegal are not the same as right and wrong, and we should all understand and honor that distinction.
 
And we should not take it upon ourselves to police everyone else's behavior, by punishing those who do not meet with our moral approval.
 
Period.
 
Erin
 
© All Rights Reserved, including the right to copy to any blog or other public forum.

---

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:57:33 -0400

Subject: Please leave your Vote - Is Homosexuality a Choice

From: mark...@gmail.com
To: pflag-balti...@googlegroups.com; Pflag...@yahoogroups.com; louise...@verizon.net; equal-r...@googlegroups.com

We hear this question over and over again:

Is Homosexuality a Choice?

Please go here to voice your opinion:
http://pflagbaltimore.blogspot.com/

---

Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone.

[Mark Patro]

So far 28 people have recorded his or her opinion via the poll on this question. Three (four including myself) of us have articulated our views publicly. We in the LGBT community are a diverse group. When we add parents, family members and friends into the group the I am trying to reach, the diversity of those involved in this discussion grows broader. Comments on this  and future discussions are welcome and encouraged from all different corners of our spectrum.

The ultimate goal of this experiment is to gauge the various positions in the broader community and to be informed of those positions when speaking to those outside of our PFLAG community. I am and will continue to work to inform those who continue to lean on false arguments to deny LGBT people our civil equality.

Mark

[Steve Kay]

I'm kinda befuddled by some of the responses here. almost everything
says, and the American Pschiatric, Psychological, Psychoanalytical,
pediatric, and medical associations all say being gay is an inborn
trait.

But, try this one on for size - I only wish it was a choice. Because
if it was, other then having biological children, prob 50% of the
people would choose to be gay. And the homphobic ultra conservative
churches which spread their hatred (because they have little to offer
except hatred of someone or another to blind the eye and harden the
heart) would become nothing but museums to teach future generations
how "God": was used as an instrument of hatred and denigration of
others. .

I can't imagine what is wrong with being gay, except in the minds of
the bigots, and the ignorant. And if you look at what is happening
around the world, virtually all western european nations except Italy
and greece, recognize in some way gay families legally. Add Israel,
Repub of South Africa, New Zealand, Nepal, even a particular
situation in Japan. Add Hungary, Chech republic, Slovenia. Add
Canada, parts of Mexico, Columbia, Uraguay, and parts of Brazil and
Argentina. And Australia.

We have our work cut out for us. The issue is not whether it is a
choice. The issue is that our declaration of independence said that
"...believe all men are created equal", and the phrase we said
thousands of times in school - "....with liberty and justice for
all" are still to a large extent pipe dreams for parts of the
American population.

On Jul 4, 8:48 am, Mark Patro <markpa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So far 28 people have recorded his or her opinion via the poll on this
> question. Three (four including myself) of us have articulated our views
> publicly. We in the LGBT community are a diverse group. When we add parents,
> family members and friends into the group the I am trying to reach, the
> diversity of those involved in this discussion grows broader. Comments on
> this  and future discussions are welcome and encouraged from all different
> corners of our spectrum.
>
> The ultimate goal of this experiment is to gauge the various positions in
> the broader community and to be informed of those positions when speaking to
> those outside of our PFLAG community. I am and will continue to work to
> inform those who continue to lean on false arguments to deny LGBT people our
> civil equality.
>
> Mark
>
>
>

> > ------------------------------

> > Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:57:33 -0400
> > Subject: Please leave your Vote - Is Homosexuality a Choice

> > From: markpa...@gmail.com
> > To: pflag-balti...@googlegroups.com; Pflagbel...@yahoogroups.com;
> > louiseharm...@verizon.net; equal-r...@googlegroups.com

>
> > We hear this question over and over again:
>
> > Is Homosexuality a Choice?
>
> > Please go here to voice your opinion:
> >http://pflagbaltimore.blogspot.com/
>

> > ------------------------------

> > Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it on your

> > BlackBerry or iPhone.<http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009>

[Erma Durkin]

This is a question universally raised by "straight" people wrestling with their own consciences, trying to decide whether to accept the sexual orientation of others as a given, or not.  A gay person is keenly aware of his or her orientation.  The question, to them, is irrelavant.   It is evidently enervating and irritating to constantly expect  to be treated with dignity and respect, and be disappointed;  to have to prove that you are worthy of equal treatment under law, etc., etc. and be refused.

 

Medical professionals have stated that one's sexual orientation is a given at birth, not a choice.

U.S. Catholic Bishops have also indicated this in their various documents on Homosexuality.

 

My VOTE:  One's sexual orientation is NOT A CHOICE. 

 

However, whether heterosexual, or homosexual, there are "justice" issues that must be considered in our personal relationship with others.

 

Erma

 

----- Original Message -----

[Tracey Eno]

I would like to be removed from this group. Thank you.

 

Tracey Eno

trac...@comcast.net

---

<BR

[coachsappho]

As a lesbian myself I certainly don't feel like I had any choice in
the matter of my sexual orientation. I've had attractions to females
since childhood. I know that, for some, they feel their sexuality is
more 'fluid', but I would imagine that Kinsey's scale here applies -
that some folks have a 'mix' of sexualities, again NOT CHOSEN.
Perhaps fluid is just another word for bisexual?

I am heartened by the support of all of the professional societies and
organizations that agree with my feelings. Obviously, then, no matter
what people say, interpret from religious texts, etc., there is enough
of a DOUBT, that those who vehemently disagree should at least open
their hearts and minds to the possibility that people might NOT choose
their sexual orientation.

I also think the debate is evolving on this issue amongst those who
think it's chosen. In some evangelical places even they are taking
the more we didn't choose it, but putting it in the bag of
'sickness'. Not really that much of an evolution, but a slight one
for these types. And, it's contradictory - is it fair to say
something is sinful if you didn't 'choose it'? Think of the Ted
Haggard story. On Oprah this year he reports he is not gay or
straight, so what is he? he has also called himself a 'heterosexual -
with issues', or, something like that. That he would even admit that
I think is either progress or the same old, same old.

Lastly, I just have to say that for me my biggest struggle now is
encouraging family to evolve beyond 'tolerating' me and who I am.
However, at the age of almost 50, I don't see most of my family
moving much further than that. And, PFLAGGER's you need to know
how much I appreciate you standing up for me. You truly accept and,
even better, CELEBRATE, who I am. I guess what I'm trying to
say here is that toleration is not that great. I mean, at least
family
talk to me, and have welcomed my partners in the past (I'm single
now) into their homes. However, I am NOT treated as an equal
and it always hurts...if a family member read this they might
be hurt and disagree, but actions speak louder than words...

Thanks for the opportunity to comment. Yes, the 'origins of gayness'
is an old question and maybe one that we could 'move past'. I am
curious
why you are asking it now on this forum? Is there a larger positive
purpose?

Barb Elgin, MSW, LCSW
http://www.coachsappho.com
America's Favorite Lesbian Love Coach
352-347-3577/toll free 866-396-2272

[Mark Patro]

I do have a larger purpose. And thank you for asking that question.

I fully understand from personal conversations with LGBT folks and parents in PFLAG that most people in those two groups understand that Homosexuality does not feel like a choice to most. There may be a few that believe it is because lets face it, some people do make a choice. Withing the LGBT community I personally feel like that group is a very small minority.

Now to the point.

I am trying to figure out how to have a conversation with a conservative group and thought it might be a good foundation to compare the opinions of the groups mentioned above with the conservative group. Does the conversation need to hinge on their belief system or does it need to depend on science.

I have heard a proposal from a member of our group that the conversation needs to be changed to discuss the ethics of the relationship between the two partners whether they be gay or straight instead of focussing on their sexual orientation. I do believe we have evloved in the LGBT civil right movement and in the heterosexual community (for lack of a better descriptive dichotomy).

I wish to continue the conversation on "how" do we do this.

Mark

--
Mark Patro
President
PFLAG Baltimore County
www.PFLAGbaltimore.org
443-255-1484

[Steve Kay]

No more then heterosexuality is a choice. yes, there are a very few
bi people I've met out of hundreds of gay people.

Choice is one of the 'Clobber" items that the religious wrong use to
try as an absolutism to shut down any discussion.

On Jul 1, 10:57 am, Mark Patro <markpa...@gmail.com> wrote: