Newsgroups: perl.perl6.language
From: dar...@DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:10:57 -0700
Local: Thurs, May 31 2007 8:10 pm
Subject: propose renaming Hash to Dict
I decided to bring out this Hash->Dict topic in a different thread
from the thread on Synopsis r14407 about Object->Universal since I consider them separate though tangential matters that should be argued on their individual merits. In the interest of that Perl data types are better off being named Barring some better name, I highly recommend/propose renaming Hash to Dict. The term Dict (as a short form of "dictionary") is well understood by The term Dict is easier for new people to Perl, either new For Perl 5 people, it should be very easy to adapt, or for the most You also have equal huffmanization since the terms Hash and Dict are And aside from the 4 letter word, all the other details associated In fact, since many users of Perl don't refer to the data type by the Of course, if that change is made, KeyHash should be renamed to After this change, the term Hash is then freed up to be used more I think this change would be a good thing. Feedback is appreciated, either pro or con. -- Darren Duncan You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: perl.perl6.language
From: ju...@convolution.nl (Juerd Waalboer)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 02:32:28 +0200
Local: Thurs, May 31 2007 8:32 pm
Subject: Re: propose renaming Hash to Dict
Dictionaries are usually alphabetically ordered. Hashes are not.
-- korajn salutojn, juerd waalboer: perl hacker <ju...@juerd.nl> <http://juerd.nl/sig> You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: perl.perl6.language
From: chas.ow...@gmail.com (Chas Owens)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 20:36:40 -0400
Local: Thurs, May 31 2007 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: propose renaming Hash to Dict
On 5/31/07, Darren Duncan <dar...@darrenduncan.net> wrote:
> Barring some better name, I highly recommend/propose renaming Hash to Dict. And lets rename Perl to Python. This is just change for the sake of change. snip > The term Dict (as a short form of "dictionary") is well understood by snip > general people and is the term used for associative arrays in some > other languages, so it is easy to learn, and easy to explain to > people in Learning Perl. Dict also makes it sound like you are talking about pornography. Of snip > The term Dict is easier for new people to Perl, either new snip > programmers or visitors from other languages, to learn than Hash is. > It allows more self-documenting code where one is used. And writing > Learning Perl should be easier. Please provide the peer-reviewed study that proves this as it goes snip > For Perl 5 people, it should be very easy to adapt, or for the most snip > part they may not notice any difference save for documentation > references. The Perl 5 people are already annoyed that . is changing to ~, sigils snip > You also have equal huffmanization since the terms Hash and Dict are snip > both of the same length, and they are also equally easy to type. They may be the same number of characters, but I can type hash without snip > And aside from the 4 letter word, all the other details associated snip > with hashes, eg the % sigil and {} constructor, and parts named > keys,values,pairs,kv et al can/should remain the same as they are. Right, because dictionaries have keys and values not terms and snip > In fact, since many users of Perl don't refer to the data type by the snip > name Hash but rather just by % or {}, the change may not take from > their useability at all or they may not even notice that a change > occurred at all, so easy to adapt. Except of course those poor schmucks who foolishly wrote code like if (ref $arg eq 'HASH') { ... } You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: perl.perl6.language
From: lloy0...@adam.com.au (David Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:59:45 +0930
Local: Thurs, May 31 2007 9:29 pm
Subject: Re: propose renaming Hash to Dict
<big snip> I thought one of the things that Larry didn't want to do when moving I feel that renaming a Hash to Dict would be one of those changes. Personally, I don't find it difficult to discuss Perl hashes and a A Perl program's audience - imho - should be the programmers. That it DSL You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: perl.perl6.language
From: chroma...@wgz.org (Chromatic)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:48:37 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 1 2007 2:48 am
Subject: Re: propose renaming Hash to Dict
On Thursday 31 May 2007 17:36:40 Chas Owens wrote:
> Except of course those poor schmucks who foolishly wrote code like I know you're teasing, but it *would* be nice to see that sort of code just > if (ref $arg eq 'HASH') { ... } magically go away. -- c You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: perl.perl6.language
From: la...@wall.org (Larry Wall)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 21:17:17 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 1 2007 12:17 am
Subject: Re: propose renaming Hash to Dict
On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 05:10:57PM -0700, Darren Duncan wrote: : I decided to bring out this Hash->Dict topic in a different thread : from the thread on Synopsis r14407 about Object->Universal since I : consider them separate though tangential matters that should be : argued on their individual merits. : : In the interest of that Perl data types are better off being named : primarily after their meaning rather than their implementation, : probably the current worst offender is Hash. Nope. Hash is mostly about meaning, and very little about implementation. Likewise, if I say Object I'm referring not to a CS object so much as In general I'm much more interested in the natural linguistic feel Of course, it's possible to pick words that have too much overloading And as I said before, part of the reason for using Object is political, And maybe part of the reason for *not* using Universal is also Larry You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: perl.perl6.language
From: dar...@DarrenDuncan.net (Darren Duncan)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 22:39:19 -0700
Local: Fri, Jun 1 2007 1:39 am
Subject: Re: propose renaming Hash to Dict
At 9:17 PM -0700 5/31/07, Larry Wall wrote:
>Nope. Hash is mostly about meaning, and very little about implementation. <snip> <snip> >And as I said before, part of the reason for using Object is political, Okay, thanks for addressing these 2 naming concerns I talked about; You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: perl.perl6.language
From: m...@gedankenkonstrukt.de (Thomas Wittek)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:44:53 +0200
Local: Fri, Jun 1 2007 5:44 am
Subject: Re: propose renaming Hash to Dict
Larry Wall:
> Nope. Hash is mostly about meaning, and very little about implementation. Hm, but with which would you explain a "hash" in plain english? > Please don't assume that I name things according to Standard Names in > Computer Science. I name things in English. Hash is just something > that is disordered, which describes the associative array interface > rather nicely, distinguishing it from the ordered Array interface. What would be the closest equivalents in the real world? I'm not a native english speaker, but I've never heard or read the word I guess this ones are close: The problem with the implication of an order in the real world concepts So there is no perfect candidate in the above list. -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: perl.perl6.language
From: mas...@istic.org (Daniel Hulme)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 11:44:49 +0100
Local: Fri, Jun 1 2007 6:44 am
Subject: Re: propose renaming Hash to Dict
It's a bit of a working-class dish, for using up your leftovers, so not In colloquial English there's also the expression, "to make a hash of That said, the dish and the idiom are both dying out, and the current As a general point, I think it's pretty easy to make a mental --
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Newsgroups: perl.perl6.language
From: m...@gedankenkonstrukt.de (Thomas Wittek)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:05:58 +0200
Local: Fri, Jun 1 2007 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: propose renaming Hash to Dict
Daniel Hulme:
>> Larry Wall: To conclude, as hash definitely tastes better than a dictionary, we >>> I name things in English. Hash is just something that is disordered >> I'm not a native english speaker, but I've never heard or read the word > you've never eaten "corned beef hash". should stick to that name. ;) At least nobody can say that Perl is bad taste! -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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